Nana the Chihuahua update

[FoggyOaks]

Dog's name, breed: Nana, Chihuahua
Age: 9
Dog's weight: 7.5 pounds
Diet: Science Diet Mature Small Bites mixed with w/d
Insulin: Vetsulin
Number of units per injection and injections per day: 5 units twice daily
Brand of BG meter if home testing: nothing yet

Nana was turned over to the vet clinic that I work for. Previous owner was not good about keeping up with her injections and wanted her euthanized because she was peeing all over her house.

[BestBuddy]

Hi and welcome.
How long has Nana been diabetic? Have you had any BG curves done to see how it is all going?
Jenny
PS You are a special person to take Nana and her problems so god bless.

[ravenecw]

I think it's sad when people just don't want to put the effort in to try to make the dog feel better. It is some work and can be frustrating (espeically at first) but it gets easier and the joy the animal gives makes it so worth it.

This forum is great and I spend so much time on here as I'm trying to do bg curves and do the best for my dog right now as well.... .welcome, you are with alot of really good people here.

[FoggyOaks]

I'm very glad I came across this forum.

A little about Nana:
Nana is a 9 year old Chihuahua. Her owner turned over ownership to the vet clinic I work for. Owner was having issues with Nana Peeeing in her house. She claimed that her life was to hectic to remember to give Nana her insulin. She brought Nana in to have her euthanized. The clinic took ownership of her the middle of April.

Nana was diagnosed with diabetes in February or March 2009. Vet clinic monitered her and we got her regulated on Vetsulin. She is now on 5 units BID. In December of 2007, Nana got hit by a car. It messed up her right eye. On May 7th we removed the eye and did a dental.

I felt sorry for Nana. I started bringing her home at night. She gets along with the rest of my gang and has realy attached herself to me. In the last 5 days that she has been coming home with me she has not had a single accident in the house. Vet has me slowly spreading out the time between injections. At the clinic she was getting the at 8am and 4:45pm. We are now at 8 am and 6:30pm. Vet said to move her back a little at a time. She goes to work with me so that she isn't left alone doing the day.

I know very little on diabetes. How often due you test at home? Is it better to board her at the clinic when I go out of town or take her with me?

[FoggyOaks]

I think it's sad when people just don't want to put the effort in to try to make the dog feel better. It is some work and can be frustrating (espeically at first) but it gets easier and the joy the animal gives makes it so worth it.

This forum is great and I spend so much time on here as I'm trying to do bg curves and do the best for my dog right now as well.... .welcome, you are with alot of really good people here.

She is such a sweet dog. Makes me made that her old owner was going to put her to sleep. So far everything is going well. I need to get my other dogs on her feeding schedule. Right now the rest of the pack gets feed around 9pm. Nana looks at me with her big brown eye like way can't I have any??

[FoggyOaks]

Hi and welcome.
How long has Nana been diabetic? Have you had any BG curves done to see how it is all going?
Jenny
PS You are a special person to take Nana and her problems so god bless.

Nana was diagnosed in February or March. Will have to check her chart in the morning when I get to work. I don't think they did any BG curves, I know they were taking them in the morning and adjusted her insulin from there. I have so many questions to ask the vet tomorrow.

Thank you. I hope that I can get an understanding on things and do right for Nana.

[We Hope]

Welcome!

I think it's sort of clear that Nana wouldn't have been peeing in the house if she'd gotten her insulin regularly. Mine went from the point where I re-trained him to potty pads because if not, we would have been living outside, to no more accidents after getting regulated.

He initially had an accident in the house and because he'd had bladder issues years before (large stone removed), I brought him in right away; this was when I learned he had diabetes. You could tell he was ashamed when he didn't make it outside in time--always was--so I re-trained him to use the potty pads where he didn't need to think he'd done wrong.

You ask about how often testing should be done--much of this depends on the person and dog. It also depends on whether you're trying to regulate (more testing) or if the diabetes is under good control (less testing). There's also more testing involved if you're having a bg problem such as food and insulin match or possible rebound issues (more testing to see where things are going wrong so you can fix them), etc. Nana's considered to be regulated now, right?

I'm amazed because she uses more insulin than my Lucky did and he outweighed Nana by 2lb. 4 units of Caninsulin/Vetsulin BID worked like a new pancreas for him. We got no results with either human or beef insulin (immune mediated insulin resistance). The only insulin that worked for him was pork Lente, whether it was the one Lilly used to make or Caninsulin/Vetsulin; he had issues with the suspension and preservatives of the pork NPH and was the first US Vetsulin patient (before US approval).

If you know that Nana's a good traveler and doesn't get stressed out by it, it would be fine for her to go with you. If not, then she'd be best off at the clinic where she surely knows everyone!

Hats off to you and everyone at the clinic for saving Nana's life! Nana's a lucky girl to have all of you there for her! :)

Kathy

[FoggyOaks]

Welcome!

Nana's considered to be regulated now, right?

If you know that Nana's a good traveler and doesn't get stressed out by it, it would be fine for her to go with you. If not, then she'd be best off at the clinic where she surely knows everyone!

Hats off to you and everyone at the clinic for saving Nana's life! Nana's a lucky girl to have all of you there for her! :)

Kathy

Yes, Nana is considered regulated. Vet want's to do a frutosimine(sp) wed. when we take her eye sutures out.

The 45 min drive to and from work Nana has been great. The first night I took her home she curled up on the passanger seat. Every now and then she would look out the window. I think she travels pretty good. I just worry about stressing her out, or something happen when we are 6 hours away from my vet.

[eyelostit]

Hi and Welcome Robyn and Nana :)

I know Nana is so precious to you, all she's been thru and she now has you to take care and love her.

We have lots of information here, any help you need just ask, even if it seems dumb, as we have already asked them ;)

Seeing your post today has made my bad day finally to a happy one.:)

My Niki has been diabetic for 6+ yrs now. Oh I used to live in OR

Take care,
Dolly

[FoggyOaks]

Hi and Welcome Robyn and Nana :)

I know Nana is so precious to you, all she's been thru and she now has you to take care and love her.

We have lots of information here, any help you need just ask, even if it seems dumb, as we have already asked them ;)

Seeing your post today has made my bad day finally to a happy one.:)

My Niki has been diabetic for 6+ yrs now. Oh I used to live in OR

Take care,
Dolly

Thank you. Glad we could brighten your day.

There is so much to learn.

What part of Oregon did you live in?

[k9diabetes]

Welcome to you and Nana and bless you for taking her in and giving her a loving home. It's great that she seems to be regulating well.

We took our diabetic dog travelling with us. Packed up his insulin and his food (he got some canned and some cottage cheese) in an ice chest and spent a lot of time on long drives pulling over to the side of the road and drawing up his injections! :) He was unusual in that he got four injections a day, once every six hours, so we had to stop along the way.

He was also blind from diabetes-induced cataracts and still he liked to travel with us.

He was a very mellow dog so a lot does depend on Nana's temperament.

I'll be she is excited to be feeling so much better now that she has the insulin she needs!!

Natalie

[eyelostit]

What part of Oregon did you live in?

Right outside of Bend :)

[forloveofandy]

It is people like you that make me believe in the human race. Sometimes I find that hard and then I hear a story like this and I know there is still hope.

I have a chihuahua mix, half doxie and half chihuahua. We call him a chiwennie!

He has the looks and personality of a chihuahua so I have learned about the breed and how precious they are.

Hit by a car? This dog has never been cared for until you came along. Thank God for you.

I will be keeping up with this story. Like Dolly, it makes me feel good!

Hugs!

[FoggyOaks]

The person that gave up Nana called the clinic the other day. Wanted to know if Nana found a home. Then asked what vaccines a 12 week old puppy needs because they got a new puppy....ughh.

Part of the reason Nana was surrended was because they didn't have the finances to take care of her "special" needs.

Haven't gotton into the home testing yet. Vet did a fructosimine and it came back in the excellant range. I can't remember her exact number.

[pgcor]

Hi Robyn: I was so happy to hear of Nana's excellent fructosamine test. However, I couldn't help from getting riled up about how our pets and some people have become throw-aways.

I only wish there was a way from preventing folks like that from adopting any more animals. Hopefully their new puppy won't need anything from them.

Nana is so much better off with you!!

Pam

[janspack]

Hi Robyn,

Sorry I missed your intro (I've been having problems with my own diabetic dog) - welcome to the forum. Thanks for being so good as to take little Nana on - and to the vet practice for saving her in the first place. It's so nice to hear of such caring people.

[k9diabetes]

The person that gave up Nana called the clinic the other day. Wanted to know if Nana found a home. Then asked what vaccines a 12 week old puppy needs because they got a new puppy....ughh.

This is why I could never do rescue work... I would hurt people!

[forloveofandy]

I am with you Nat. Give me five minutes alone with those people! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[FoggyOaks]

I am with you Nat. Give me five minutes alone with those people! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!


I totally agree. It pisses me off that thier are people that treat their pets like trash.


I dropped and broke a brand new bottle of vetsulin last night. I was very upset with myself.:(

[Margaret Boyle]

Hi Robyn,

Sorry I missed your intro (I've been having problems with my own diabetic dog) - welcome to the forum. Thanks for being so good as to take little Nana on - and to the vet practice for saving her in the first place. It's so nice to hear of such caring people.

Hi Robyn,
Just to say welcome I think you have a big heart and hope Nana will have a lovely life with you, now she knows she is loved.
There are some wicked people in this old world of ours, This makes me very angry dogs give you all their love and loyalty and do not ask for much in return they give unconditional love.
You are a STAR :D:D

[k9diabetes]

Hi Robyn,

Sorry to hear your Vetsulin bottle broke!! Expensive little suckers that they are!!

Did you have a backup bottle?

That's something we don't mention often enough - keeping a few doses in the last bottle as a backup in case something like this happens or a new bottle doesn't seem to be working.

Happens to all of us sometime.

Natalie

[FoggyOaks]

It has been just over a month since I got Nana. For the most part everything has been going well. She did give me a scare when her BG droped. I woke up to her trembling beside me, I was able to get her to eat a little and called the vet at 3:30 in the morning. She lives 2 minutes away and came right over. Of course when she gets here Nana is doing better and just wants to go back to bed.

The next morning at the clinic her BG was 74 before giving insulin. 4 hours later it was 16!! Of course this is happening when I'm trying to head out of town. THe Vet Tech took Nana for the weekend. No insulin friday night and Saturday her BG was in the mid 100's. Reduced her insulin from 5 units to 2.5 units.

Nana did great through the weekend. We tested her BG levels yesterday and 2 hours after insulin she was at 191, 4 hours 248, 6 hours 243, and at 8 hours still in the 200's. Vet recommended tring her at 3 units.

Waiting for payday and tehn buying a meter!!

[forloveofandy]

Thank you for posting an update on Nana!

Sounds like she is doing great.

Keep some Karo syrup around for those lows. I have been told you can just rub a little on the gums if they are going hypo and they will absorb it.

Glad you are getting a meter. Information is everything!

Give that sweet baby a hug from me and Andy.

[eyelostit]

It has been just over a month since I got Nana. For the most part everything has been going well. She did give me a scare when her BG droped. I woke up to her trembling beside me, I was able to get her to eat a little and called the vet at 3:30 in the morning. She lives 2 minutes away and came right over. Of course when she gets here Nana is doing better and just wants to go back to bed.

The next morning at the clinic her BG was 74 before giving insulin. 4 hours later it was 16!! Of course this is happening when I'm trying to head out of town. THe Vet Tech took Nana for the weekend. No insulin friday night and Saturday her BG was in the mid 100's. Reduced her insulin from 5 units to 2.5 units.

Nana did great through the weekend. We tested her BG levels yesterday and 2 hours after insulin she was at 191, 4 hours 248, 6 hours 243, and at 8 hours still in the 200's. Vet recommended tring her at 3 units.

Waiting for payday and tehn buying a meter!!

I know what a scare that was, lucky your vet is nearby, the 3 units the vet recommended sounds just about right. When you get your meter you'll feel alot better as to checking those bg numbers. You've come a long way ;)

Dolly

[FoggyOaks]

The middle of June we changed Nana from 5 units to 3 units after she crashed. The week of the 4th of July she was drinking lots of water and having to get up every couple hours to pee during the night. Bumped her up to 3.5 units BID, and she has quit waking up to pee during the night and is not drinking as much water.

Today we did a curve on her. I'm pretty sure she is not stressed at the vet clinic because she is there everyday since I work there.

Gave insulin 9am - 135
11am - 73
1pm - 99
3pm - 66
5pm - 78
9pm - 106

I didn't give her any insulin tonight because I'm packing to go out of town and the last time I packed she crashed 3:30am. We will pull blood again in the morningand see where she is at.

I don't do home testing yet because I'm just not sure how to do it by myself. Vet and I talked about giving her 3.5 in the am and 3units pm.

What should I be doing? ANy advice? I will be out of town from friday till monday.

Edited to add: Using the Accu-Check Active moniter.

[BestBuddy]

Hi Robyn,
If you are using a human meter then it could be reading 30 points or so lower, I would be really happy with a curve like that if that is the case. If you are worried Nana will go too low just reduce the insulin a bit again.
Jenny

[k9diabetes]

Not sure who is taking care of Nana or if you are taking her with you.

I would cut the insulin. You may have a "honeymoon" going on here - where injecting insulin has given her pancreas a rest and it is, temporarily, producing insulin again.

Where will Nana be while you are gone?

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

You could just go back to 3 units or cut a little more to be safe, down to 2.5 if someone else will be taking care of Nana who is not familiar with all the issues related to diabetes.

[FoggyOaks]

She is going with me.

THis morning before insulin and food she was at 178.

We tested this meter with our blood machine and is consistently read around a 10 point difference.

[eyelostit]

I'd lower the insulin also to 3 units or the 2.5, I'm leary of the 66 reading, especially if she had a hypo. I think you'd feel better and not have to worry.

Take care:)
Dolly

[k9diabetes]

Hope you two are off to do something fun! She's with you so she will be okay.

Natalie

[FoggyOaks]

Hope you two are off to do something fun! She's with you so she will be okay.

Natalie

Thanks everyone. Nana did fine and I had a great time.

[k9diabetes]

I'm all smiles to hear this! :)

Natalie

[FoggyOaks]

We are going to try Nana ononce a day insulin. This morning before food/insulin she was at 108.

[eyelostit]

Glad you had a nice time, keep us posted.:)

[k9diabetes]

Sounds like you think you may have overlap. It will be interesting to see how it goes. If it doesn't last 24 hours, you can use the curve to come up with a schedule to resolve the timing involved.

I'm anxious to hear how it goes.

Natalie

[FoggyOaks]

Sounds like you think you may have overlap. It will be interesting to see how it goes. If it doesn't last 24 hours, you can use the curve to come up with a schedule to resolve the timing involved.

I'm anxious to hear how it goes.

Natalie

Nana has been on once a day insulin for 3 weeks. She is doing great. I have only randomly pulled blood and we average 120. Had one day of a lot of water consumption and peeing and on that day her bg was 320. She is on 3.5 units of vetsulin.

[FoggyOaks]

In July I switched Nana to 3.5 units once a day of vetsulin. She did great for 2 months. She is now on 4 units once a day, but by no means regulated. I'm leary on the 4 units BID because she crashed when on 5units BID. In the mean time she has lost the majority of sight in her "good" eye.

The day after the FDA sent out the letter Nana and I were in a horrible car wreck. We are both ok with some bumps and brusies. With that being said I'm trying to figure out what to do with Nana insulin wise.

I work for a vet clinic and the story I got on the vetsulin was that it was only one bottle that didn't hold up to standards and therfore they are trying to fix the problem.

Any suggestions on what to try would be great. Nana will do great on vetsulin for about 1-2 months at a time. THen it becomes a roler coaster of highs and lows.

[k9diabetes]

I'm SO sorry about your accident! Very glad to hear that everyone is okay.

Has Nana had a curve?

What is her blood sugar running these days?

You can try to stay with Vetsulin and switch when the supply runs out if it does (and I think it will).

NPH simply won't hold once a day. It will have to be given twice.

But I'd really like to see a curve on her, especially from the point 12 hours after her injection onward.

Your description of her rollercoastering could be too much insulin causing rebound or the problems described with Vetsulin.

Natalie

[FoggyOaks]

I haven't done a good every to hour curve in a while.

Last week before food she was at 388, 4 hours after food was at 321, 6 hours 333, at 12 hours 352.
Then at feeding the next morning she was at 181. I only gave her 2 units instead of 4. at 6 hours she was 121 and at 12 she was 323. The next morning she was at 86. I put her on the schedule to do a curve on monday.

[k9diabetes]

It sounds like she's doing pretty well on one injection a day. Every time I've seen it work, it has been in small dogs.

I'll be very interested to see the curve.

Natalie

[FoggyOaks]

Nana has been on 4 units twice daily since September.

@ 9am 84
fed her but did not give her any insulin
11am 363
1pm 438
3pm 417
5pm 392
9pm 459
Any help would be great. I'm also wondering if I should put her on a food for diabetes instead of on Science Diet Sr. Small Bites.

We are going to test her again in the morning.

[k9diabetes]

Oops sorry... I saw the once a day reference and then missed the BID part later.

Last week...
before food she was at 388,
4 hours after food was at 321,
6 hours 333, at 12 hours 352.

Then at feeding the next morning she was at 181.

I only gave her 2 units instead of 4.

at 6 hours she was 121

and at 12 she was 323.

The next morning she was at 86.

I put her on the schedule to do a curve on monday.

Hmmmm... she bounces around an awful lot. Makes me wonder if she's getting some overlap.

On your curve below, did she get any insulin at all after the 84?

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

So I have to go back and look... you already tried NPH?

It's hard to tell what's going on here with the low and then no insulin...

Natalie

[FoggyOaks]

So I have to go back and look... you already tried NPH?

It's hard to tell what's going on here with the low and then no insulin...

Natalie

No, only ever used vetsulin.

[k9diabetes]

Then I'd consider trying NPH. Her response to the Vetsulin so far has been erratic and with the potential supply shortage of Vetsulin, this is a great time to switch.

Changing insulins can make a world of difference. Our dog's curves on a Vetsulin-like insulin and NPH were completely different.

So the other day when you got 84 and then all those high numbers, were those readings in the 400s after insulin or not?

Natalie

[FoggyOaks]

Then I'd consider trying NPH. Her response to the Vetsulin so far has been erratic and with the potential supply shortage of Vetsulin, this is a great time to switch.

Changing insulins can make a world of difference. Our dog's curves on a Vetsulin-like insulin and NPH were completely different.

So the other day when you got 84 and then all those high numbers, were those readings in the 400s after insulin or not?

Natalie

That day with the 400s was no insulin.

Last night and this morning she got 2 units and was still in the 400s