Vetsulin supply

[peggy0]

I tried to order Vetsulin today from my vet and was informed that they can no longer get it, without warning. I have 3 vials left and my vet wants me to switch to Humulin N after my current vial finishes, in case of the rare instance that he cannot adjust to Humulin N. The last thing I want to do is reregulate Forbin, but looks as though I have no choice. I had just purchased 2 more vials of Vetsulin earlier in the week and there were crystals that would not suspend so I returned them only to find they could no longer order it. So here we go again. Wish me luck. She wants me to start at 19 U 2x a day. He is currently at 23 of Vetsulin. I'm starting at 17.5 which is 25% reduction and working my way up.

[CraigM]

Peggy,
Just a reminder that the Wal-Mart RELION N is suppose to be the same as Humulin N, but only costs about $24.

I took a drive earlier this week to my "local" (about 20 miles) Wal-Mart and will probably start the switch next week.

Craig & Annie

ps: Don't forget the U-100 syringes

[peggy0]

Thanks Craig, yes my vet gave me the u100s and said if the humulin n worked for him, i could go to wal mart for the relion n. she said the syringes are still a perscription.??? and she would call them in once we are satisfied. I'm not looking forward to this, but am glad I have this board and all of my good friends to help out :)

[CraigM]

I think the syringes depend on State law. No prescription required in Oregon.

Craig

[k9diabetes]

There is a prescription required in California but I was able to order them from www.hocks.com (http://www.hocks.com) with no problem, I guess because they are not prescription where Hocks is located.

I was never worried about it as I had historically had a prescription for syringes.

Natalie

[k9diabetes]

Chances are very very good that NPH will work just fine. Might even work better!

Natalie

[peggy0]

Yes its the regulating that concerns me with forbin. It certainly smells awful YUK. I never noticed a smell with Vetsulin

[Patty]

Will pray all goes well Peggy. It's hard to switch when you have a good thing going.

Do your syringes have 1/2 u markings?

Take care,
Patty

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Good luck Peggy! Keep us posted!

[eileen]

Good luck with the switch Peggy. Mildred has been on ReliOn Novolin N for 4 of her 5 1/2 years and has done wonderfully as a whole with her problems not being insulin related.

The ReliOn syringes are FANTASTIC and at a price of about 13.00 for a box of 100 it is hard to beat. Be sure to buy syringes with half unit markings no matter where you decide to purchase them...very handy for dosing in fractions.

Altho it does matter somewhat which State you reside in and what their laws are governing whether or not a script is required it can also vary depending upon the individual pharmacy. Myself living in California it is not required but several local pharmacies choose to require one. Depending upon which Walmart I go to in my City also decides whether or not I need one...1 Walmart does not...another only miles away does.

Eileen/Mil

[Taylor]

Peggy, I switched to ReliOn Novolin N last Saturday and I am doing a curve today. Since we were not regulated yet I only cut back a little more than 20 percent. It went much smoother than I expected--no horrible highs! So far I like the nph better than the vetsulin. I haven't noticed any difference in the smell. Hope your transition goes well. Pat

[eileen]

The 'smell' of NPH is said to be like that similiar to a bandage. I've smelled it many times over the years. One good thing about this odd aroma is that it is easy to pick up on any time some of the insulin does not make it into the dog.
Of course never trying to guess and giving additional insulin but only noting in case odd readings follow.

NPH is a gentle insulin and produces much more even numbers than many see with Vetsulin.

Good luck to all who are making this transition. I really think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Eileen/Mil

[peggy0]

Thanks all, I know its early but here is a first glimpse......

645 fed
7 245 (18u shot)
830 274
930 unfortunately he found a treat on the kitchen floor. it probably fouled up the 1030a :(
1030 404
1230 366
3 413
5 345


We will see what 7p looks like.

[eileen]

Was looking good 'til he found that treat.
Personally at that point after testing at 10:30 and seeing the increase because of it I wouldn't have continued with the curve. Your numbers won't be true to where he really is had he not helped himself to a goodie.

Eileen/Mil

[peggy0]

the treat he found didn't raise his BG on vetsulin

[eileen]

I was going by your remark of the treat fouling up his 10:30 reading.

I'm sure you know that Vetsulin and NPH are completely different in their action profiles. If on Vetsulin he found this same treat at this time of the day, approx 2 1/2 hours after his injection the 30% fast acting portion of the insulin would be working to drive his bgs down so you may not see any noteable increase.
With NPH not having the fast acting portion it is only gradually bringing him down so this same treat that previously didn't affect him much will turn around and increase him.

As you know with any curve 'things' must be exactly as they are during a normal day...feeding, exercise, etc. So, something such as this and IF it was the cause of an increase the numbers to follow will be 'off' and not as they would be in the course of his normal day.


Eileen/Mil

[peggy0]

thanks for the info Eileen, i thought given it was intermediate it would act the same. I never thought to check to see if it had fast acting and then intermediate. we'll see what happens tomorrow.

[eileen]

You're welcome Peggy.
It is because NPH does not have the fast acting portion as Vetsulin does that seems to cause problems in many dogs that it works much gentler on them. Gradually controlling their glucose levels rather than driving them down within that first 4 hours after injecting that can get then into trouble at times. This is also why a lower carb diet is usually needed with NPH. NPH only has one peaking action whereas Vetsulin has two.

Eileen/Mildred

[peggy0]

I dont like the syringes the doctor gave me. No they don't have th 1/2 marks but there is always a bead of insulin at the tip of the needle before I inject for some reason even if I ensure there is no air. anyone have this issue?

[Patty]

Peggy,
What brand are they?

Everyone has their own favorites...

I never liked the Monoject (which I believe is what Wal-Mart has contracted for Reli-On). I thought the barrel was harder and always left me with bubbles I couldn't get out.

I use the BD brand. Because I never use all the insulin in a bottle, I draw up 10u, then draw in a little air, flick it so the air is at the top, then push the plunger quickly to get the air/some insulin out over the sink. Then I measure accurately to the 7 1/2 mark, which is what Ali's getting now.

I did write to the company though because I've had some syringes where the plunger goes past the zero mark. They sent me a coupon for a free box and a container to send back the syringes I had issue with so they can address it and which machines they are coming off of.

Might take trying a couple different brand before you settle on what you like.
Patty

[peggy0]

I raised him to 19 vs. 18 today and I'm keeping him here for 3 or 4 days:

7a 356
930 227
1030 284
1230 409
330 356
630 267

[peggy0]

I've checked 3 of the big on line suppliers of vetsulin. They are all out of stock. fyi

[ankh1972]

It's been 11 days since my 4 year old Basset Hound Tucker was diagnosed with Type 2 canine Diabetes...Initially i was not only overwhelmed and emotional but very disappointed in Vet who admitted he knew little about Canine Diabetes and that alone set off an alarm in my head. I was grateful that he was honest but not comfortable with being sent home with nothing but Vetsulin and syringes..Researching the internet was scary and i'm still not satisfied...I went to a different Vet and i am satisfied that their clinic treats several Diabetic dogs...What i dont understand is why they are still pushing Vetsulin after everything that has been said about it....I realize that Tucker and i are just starting this learning about diabetes but i feel lost..So much conflicting information about what canine blood sugar levels should be...First it was 250-300 and now my new Vet states 100-250...What's scary is that Tuckers levels are all over the place, he's always in the 300's and 400's and on a good day maybe 218-298.....This is a complete life style change and i want whats best for Tucker.....I'm calling my Vet Monday and want him off of VETSULIN....I am considering NPH.....aNY help or advice would be greatly appreciate...:confused:

[peggy0]

Its hard to get consistency with Vetsulin. I thought my dog was just difficult to regulate. With Humulin N he is very predictable and almost never goes beyond 200s. :) try it.

[ozzi]

I completely understand the overwhelming feeling and emotional distress of first finding out that your dog has diabetes. I think everyone here does, so you are exactly in the right place, and you are not alone. It will probably take a while to get Tucker in good control, and that's okay. Every day that you give him insulin, his life is improving. It can be tricky to get the right dose, and after 7 months, I am still adjusting Ozzi. I suspect that you are like me, and want his blood sugars in good control yesterday! But it does take time, so take a deep breath and you'll be fine. Tucker will get controlled, but it can sometimes be a slower process than we would like.

Ozzi was initially started on NPH, and I never used Vetsulin, however from what I have read here, it is in short supply at this time. It seems that most dogs here are on or have been transferred to NPH, so you seem to be thinking in the right direction when you say you are considering NPH. After all, what good is it to get him regulated on an insulin that you can't easily get! I would encourage you to make that call to your vet.

Regarding the glucose range, my vet wanted Ozzi to be in the 300's, which is higher than ideal. I think this was a "protective" range so he wouldn't become hypoglycemic. The reality is that it's ideal to have a dog's BG under 200 as much of the day as possible, and not go lower than 100. I have read here, and it makes sense to me, that the best way to manage a dog's sugar is to look at the low number during the day, so you won't have a hypoglycemic event.

The most important thing to regulate Tucker's BG is consistency. You want to make sure you feed him at the same time every day, and give him the same amount of food each time. Additionally, you want to make sure you give the insulin at the same times every day with feedings. An hour different from his usual time can throw him off. Try to be very consistent with everything and you will be able to regulate him better, and probably quicker. I made the mistake of trying to make all kinds of changes at once, and that really threw things off. As you need to increase insulin, you should go slowly and make increases based on his BG every 3 or 4 days if needed. I did not know this in the beginning and was increasing him 1 unit every day until I got negative urine sticks...this was a BAD idea, and was before I found this forum full of wonderfully knowledgeable people.

You didn't mention his initial glucose level at the time of diagnosis, but to be running in the 300's and 400's just 11 days after diagnosis is not terrible. You will be okay getting him into a better range. Are you home testing? If not, I encourage you to learn how and there are many resources here to help you. I learned from the videos and the support of people here. You can't manage his blood sugar if you don't know what's happening and how the insulin is working on him. Going to the vet for sugars and curves is time consuming, costly and stressful, so it really is a great idea to home test if you can do that.

I think you're doing well and we're all here to help you get Tucker into good glucose shape!! LOL

My best,
Kevin

[renniepooh]

I just wanted to say that I understand your concern and disappointment about the Vetsulin.

My dog was on Vetsulin for 2 years, and started having some glucose control problems in December. Neither one of our vets told us about the alert.

When I stumbled on the manufacturers alert last week, I was disappointed in my 2 vets who both care for my diabetic dog, Gretchen. The primary vet is the one who supplies the insulin and refilled it twice for us (we buy 2 months at a time) since November (he, himself, is a diabetic). And the internal medicine vet who advised us on four glucose curves since December. Neither one advised us to make the change. When I learned of the alert, I called our new internist to see if she would help us switch to NPH. She was not worried about Vetsulin, but simply reinforced that the "Vetsulin was going to be discontinued and that's why Gretchen needs to be switched."

Since your dog is newly diagnosed, it makes the most sense to start off on a different insulin.

When I spoke to a vet who works for Vetsulin, she said because the FDA wanted to know what would happen with questionable batches, they tested the affected batches of Vetsulin in dogs and found no differences in the results of the Vetsulin in those dogs. However, I asked her if the dogs tested were normal, healthy dogs or diabetic dogs. They were normal, healthy dogs. It was not tested in diabetic dogs or those previously regulated on Vetsulin.

Good luck with your dog. I hope everything goes well for you guys.

Renee