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View Full Version : Things the new vet tells you about Diabetic pets......


peggy0
03-10-2010, 07:25 AM
Just some fun and venting. Things I've heard from the vet

You cannot use a human monitor

You cannot adjust a dogs insulin without a medical degree just because human diabetics do it all the time

Antibiotics do not raise a dogs BGs; never heard of it nor do eye drops

Never heard of THAT; I doubt that could happen

You need to bring him in for a curve; doing it at home isn't accurate

you have to use perscription food; we use w/d, how many cans would you like

eileen
03-10-2010, 08:21 AM
I count my lucky stars that I do not have a vet 'like that'....

My vet encouraged home testing with a human or animal validated meter.

Is thrilled that I have learned to use Humalog as well as knowing how to adjust doses by readings that I see by home testing.

Knows anytime an antibiotic is required it as well as the underlying infection will most likely cause elevated bgs.

Is always interested in the latest 'incident' that may have caused something odd to occur.

When need be sits down and reviews my logbook of curves as well as everyday fastings.

Loves the fact that I am homecooking for Mildred as well as weighing her food instead of measuring.

.....so very thankful for my wonderful vet as I have heard horror stories from others with what their vets will say and do.

Eileen/Mil

peggy0
03-10-2010, 09:31 AM
i'm moving to california

dmarie
03-10-2010, 10:24 AM
I've heard the 'prescription food' jargon repeatedly. Blah!

I am fortunate that I have a vet that if they haven't heard of it says something more like, 'never heard of it, but, I will look into it.' (Makes up for the prescription diet bs - a little bit.) ;)

-dm

Patty
03-10-2010, 11:18 AM
Swing by and get me on your way Peggy :D I have heard all the same things in addition to:

- You can feed at the same times you have been (8am and 5-6pm) but give insulin 12 hours apart. :eek:

- Whatever snacks you were using are fine.

- Curves vary day to day even under the same circumstances and with the same person so they are useless. We only do fructosamines.

- If you can't get blood from her ear the only other way is to draw blood from her vein and I can't teach that in one appointment.

Thankfully I had a vet I'd worked with in the past in another state who gave me tips on what to ask and research via email when Ali was first diagnosed. I didn't find the boards until Ali was 4 months in.

I do have a vet willing to work with me now. She was willing to look into adding R if needed and reviewed my bg journals. She helped me figure out foods that Ali may not react to as much and would research options when she doesn't know the answer. But I am the primary decision maker in Ali's care. And it's only through tons of reading and education from other pet owners online that I've been able to do this.

We saw 3 vets in KS before finding someone willing to do a curve before I could test (2 of which where Internal Med Specialists). 3 vets in IL (one head of an IMS vet program) and 2 others here in NY before finding her in our many moves. Becomes an $ search.

I think vet schools should hire Natalie to do seminars or webinars for covering the topic of canine diabetes :D What do you think??

It's a big concern there are so many vets that really don't understand the disease well and how to treat it. I do wish we could change what they are teaching in the schools. There are some really knowledgeable and well-meaning vets out there that just aren't given the tools to treat this disease. It's frustrating.

And requires venting from time to time... :cool:

BestBuddy
03-10-2010, 12:57 PM
A brand new vet fresh out of school was testing a urine sample of Buddy's for UTI and said to me

Bad news he has a nasty UTI
Good news he is not diabetic

Now that wasn't just good news it was amazing because Buddy had been diabetic for 4 years and now he was cured????????

He obviously didn't read the file and because the urine stick was negative he assumed wrong and made that stupid comment.

Jenny

peggy0
03-10-2010, 01:07 PM
Hi Patty, it is amazing that this disease is almost treated by vets as a 'canned' solution. I think its a great idea to have Natalie do seminars!!! I think it would be an eye opener. I like Forbins Internist. She is pretty open minded and loves that I test at home etc. but I still get the, I've never heard of that and I treat alot of dogs'. :)
Jenny that is hysterical. I bet he was embarrassed :)

eileen
03-10-2010, 01:17 PM
Back in 2005 Mildred had her gall bladder removed at U C Davis.
Last December when Mildred was very sick with high triglyceride levels my vet was discussing with me various treatment plans and ideas. He started talking about her gall bladder possibly being an issue...I sat there smiling, it took him a minute to remember she doesn't have a gall bladder.

He was embarrassed and laughed at himself.

Eileen/Mil

Noodle
03-10-2010, 01:58 PM
I think we probably lucked out with our vet. I wouldn't say he has a tremendous amount of knowledge on treating diabetes, beyond the standard information they're taught. But he has been very open and supportive of us home testing and is willing to think outside the box when I come to him with information. He leaves the diabetes management to me and keeps on eye on everything else. He calls us his poster family for good doggie diabetes management. It's a good working relationship. :)

I think it would be an incredible resource for vets if Natalie had some sort of sponsorship to conduct seminars. She could be the first canine diabetes educator...like the human diabetics are able to access! :cool:

peggy0
03-10-2010, 02:39 PM
that's hysterical eileen

Patty
03-10-2010, 03:02 PM
LOL...wait til Natalie reads this thread and sees we've created a new job for her on top of everthing else she's swamped with! :p:D

O'Riley
03-10-2010, 05:08 PM
Ooops, what did I miss?

Patty said: "You can feed at the same times you have been (8am and 5-6pm) but give insulin 12 hours apart".

What's wrong with this statement?

I've been feeding Riley at 8am, then giving him his insulin injection. He eats dinner at 6pm, immediately followed by his insulin injection. Am I doing this wrong?

eileen
03-10-2010, 05:29 PM
Riley's Mom....

The feeding and insulin schedule needs to be 12 hours apart. If you're feeding followed by insulin at 8a/m Riley's dinner and insulin needs to be at 8p/m.
It's like splitting a 24 hour day in 2 equal halves.
In theory each injection lasts 12 hours. By giving insulin early in the evening it could overlap with what is already in the system from the morning injection. Then the p/m injection given early will not last until the next injection the following morning.

Eileen/Mil

tabathasmom
03-10-2010, 05:46 PM
Oh'" That's funny... I've never experienced a Vet that didn't know what he was talking about. I have Tabatha on Humulin.
7:00am she gets breakfest WD then 5 1/2 units
12:30 pm she gets lunch WD
7:00 pm she gets dinner WD and 5 1/2 units
then about 10pm we have some carrots together
And she seems to be doing pretty good with that.

tabathasmom
03-10-2010, 05:49 PM
[Re: Things the new vet tells you about Diabetic pets......]Oh'" That's funny... I've never experienced a Vet that didn't know what he was talking about. I have Tabatha on Humulin.
7:00am she gets breakfest WD then 5 1/2 units
12:30 pm she gets lunch WD
7:00 pm she gets dinner WD and 5 1/2 units
then about 10pm we have some carrots together
And she seems to be doing pretty good with that.

O'Riley
03-10-2010, 06:40 PM
Eileen....thanks for your reply. I really don't think Riley would do well going so long (12 hours) between breakfast and dinner. Would it be okay to feed him three times a day when he's only getting insulin injections twice a day? For instance, feed him at 8am (followed by insulin injection); feed him at 2pm (no insulin injection); feed him at 8pm (followed by insulin injection)?

~Rosey

ozzi
03-10-2010, 06:46 PM
Peggy...this thread is such a GREAT idea, and your posts are absolutely hysterical! I almost peed my pants..."moving to California"....LOL! So, here are two true-life experiences I had in dealing with Ozzi's diabetes:

ONE
Kevin: What is the treatment goal for his BG?
Vet: We like to get them to about 300.
Kevin: 300? Shouldn't we be shooting for tighter control than that?
Vet: No, 300 is fine, dogs can tolerate higher blood sugars much better than people can.

TWO
Kevin: How often should we bring Ozzi in for blood sugar testing?
Vet: Every month initially, and then less frequently unless there is a problem.
Kevin: A problem? How will we know when to adjust his insulin up or down?
Vet: Well, dogs are treated by symptoms, not numbers, so the BG is not as important as the onset of symptoms...drinking a lot, urinating a lot, etc. And if he acts drunk or he's in a coma, rub Karo syrup on his gums and bring him right in.
Kevin: Oh, so we don't have to worry too much about the numbers?
Vet: Absolutely not. On your way out, set up an appointment for a blood glucose curve.

Kevin

peggy0
03-10-2010, 07:11 PM
Hi Kevin,

you must have used my first vet. he gave me the same speech. :)

ozzi
03-10-2010, 07:31 PM
Ha ha Peggy! You know this really was a GREAT idea for a thread, and I'll tell you why. It gave me an opportunity to reflect on how far I have come with dealing with Ozzi's diabetes in a relatively short time because of this forum. When I got some of the answers from my vet (whom I otherwise adore by the way) I just felt in my heart that it didn't make sense. So I kept pressing her about things like blood sugars, diet, glucose control, etc. and when I didn't get answers that made sense, I was lucky enough to stumble onto this forum. I think it also illustrates the inadequacies of diabetes teaching in vet schools, and that is sad, but a reality for some of us. I feel that the educational component for pets is missing, unlike that for humans. Pondering the (mis)information that I originally received from the vet was helpful to me in realizing the importance of this forum. So, thanks for the laughs and for the thread!!
Kevin

CarolW
03-12-2010, 03:47 PM
Look out, Natalie! They're OUT TO GET YOU!

And with good reason! I LOVE the idea of you doing seminars for veterinarians on canine diabetes!

Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:47:15 (PST)

ankh1972
03-27-2010, 06:35 PM
Would u recommend Humulin N? 4 YEAR OLD Basset is on it now, 11 days going and i'm not happy with what i'm reading about Vetsulin......His levels are all over the place...I feel like i'm doins soemthing wrong....

ankh1972
03-27-2010, 06:54 PM
My 4 yr. old Basset Hound Tuckers was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes on the 17th of this month, so it's been 11 days now....I came across a homemade recipe for diabetic dogs that consists white rice, chicken (no skin), ground turkey and peas...I recently switched to brown rice due to some comments that white rice is not good....I feel alot of guilt you see, because i fed Tucker whatever he would eat and now my baby is dealing with this and all i want is for him to be healthy...Am i making a mistake with this recipe???? My Vet said to continue feeding him his old canned alpo dog food which i am not comfortable with....I want to make things right and not revert to old feeding habits...Tucker ate whenever b4 diagnosis, so now i'm dealing with trying to get him to eat at certain times which is difficult on top of food change...Anyone have any suggestions???? As of now Tucker is on 11 units of Vetsulin twice a day and i'm finding that 2 hours b4 his next injection he is majorly high!!! On a good day he's anywhere from 298-350 and mostly has been skyrocketing from 350-488....The more i read on Vetsulin the more i want him off of it...

peggy0
03-27-2010, 07:07 PM
Hi. we've all felt guilty that our dogs have diabetes. they don't know really what the cause is, but regardless, we're here now so we have to deal with it and you can do it. I did not want to move from vetsulin, not wanting to go through regulating my dog again, but when supplies depleted, i switched to humulin N and I'm thrilled. Forbin is very steady in his readings now! and I don't worry as much about him going high then low. As far as the food, i would get the insulin regulated first, then you can change food if you'd like. Many on the board feed home made recipes and yes they work nicely. You need to make sure the dog is getting enough minerals and vitamins. many will help you with this if you chose to go down this path. there are several good commercial dog foods that work too though. I feed my dog Blue Buffalo and so do others. It works very nicely for diabetic dogs and has no bi products, gluten and you can buy a grain free type if you'd like. Others use EVO and Wellness. They are all organic. Insulin first though. I'd ask your vet to switch you. There is lots of advise on how to move from vetsulin to nph