Hi - new to the forum and canine diabetes [Archive] - Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum

loulou

03-30-2010, 09:41 AM

Hi

I'm Lou and my 7 year old Weimaraner, Blue, was diagnosed with diabetes in mid January. To complicate matters he also has acute pancreatitis, diagnosed at the same time. He also has conjunctivitis bless him.

My main concern is that he is dangerously underweight despite 5 full meals a day. Obviously because of his pancretitis we have to be careful of what we feed him. He is on a diet of Hills i/d and white fish and chicken, also he has bloated and torsioned so we need to be careful that we don't over feed him.

He is on caninsulin twice per day, we started on 15 units per day and we are now on 29. His fructosamine test was 622 on Jan 21st, he has been having them roughly every two weeks and they are not coming down at all. He is also having a weekly vitamin B injection now.

I am that concerned about him we've also seen an holistic vet who prescribed carsinosin 200c 1 tablet a day for 5 days and syzigium 6c/iris vers 6c 1 tablet twice daily for 10 days. We need to go back in two weeks. We don't like him on the hills i/d and neither does the holistic vet but even she felt we needed to get his diabetes under control before we make any more changes to his diet.

He is currently at the vets for a glucose curve. We can collect him at 6.30pm. I'll let you know as soon as I know more.

Is it usual for it to take so long to get the condition under control? What else can we do other than increase the insulin, that doesn't appear to be working.

Blue is a lovely, polite, kind, middle aged man, his nick name is the dog father, it's breaking our hearts to see him so poorly. He is still bright in himself and still full of fun but so so skinny.

Any support or ideas as to what more we can do to help him will be gratefully received.

Sorry for the long post.

Patty

03-30-2010, 10:33 AM

Hi Lou and welcome!

Sounds like you've had a time of it. You mentioned Caninsulin so I'm guessing you aren't in the states. The maker of this insulin has had some trouble and Vetsulin as it's known to us is no longer readily available here.

How much does Blue weigh?

What times and how much is he fed at those times?

It looks like carsinosin is a remedy used sometimes for endocrine disorders as well as cancer. Can you tell us more about your vet's use of it for Blue?

Syzygium Jambolanum - Has an immediate effect of increasing the blood sugar, glycosuria results. A most useful remedy in diabetes mellitus. No other remedy causes in so marked degree the diminution and disappearance of sugar in the urine. prickly heat in upper part of the body; small red pimples itch violently. Great thirst, weakness, emaciation. Very large amounts of urine, specific gravity high. Old ulcers of skin. Diabetic ulceration. http://www.abchomeopathy.com/r.php/syzy

Iris Versicolor - Thyroid, Pancreas, salivary, intestinal glands, and gastro-intestinal mucous membrane, are especially affected. Increases the flow of bile. Sick headaches and cholera morbus are a special therapeutic field for its action. http://www.abchomeopathy.com/r.php/Iris

It's good to hear Blue is having a curve done today. Has he had others done as well?

Personally, I'm not a big fan of fructosamines in general as they don't tell you what the highest or lowest blood sugar has been. You could have a dog with a bg (blood glucose) range of 70-500 mg/dL (or 3.8-27.7 mmol/l) and the average would show in the 200s (11mmol/l). I think your money is well spent on doing the curve as you are able to see the highs/lows and how well the food and insulin are working together.

What were the reference ranges for his last fructosamine?

It does sometimes take a while to achieve regulation and to find a good balance. Let us know how his curve comes out. That will help a great deal in sorting things out.

Have you ever considered home testing with a glucometer?

Again welcome!
Patty

janspack

03-30-2010, 11:26 AM

Hi Lou,

Welcome to the list. I pop in and out now and then (usually when things are getting abit out of control which I know is naughty). I noticed that Blue has problems with pancreatitis. This is how my dog (Dazzle) started out on this road. She had several bouts of acute pancreatitis over a period before she was diagnosed with diabetes (probably around a year in all). This eventually destroyed her pancreas to the point where now she has diabetes and Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency.

The latter (EPI) means that they no longer produce the enzymes to help digest food and I was wondering if this might be part of the reason you can't get weight on Blue at the moment. It might be worth asking your vet about this. It can be tested for with a special blood test. Pancreatitis as you know doubt know, can result in the digestive enzymes actually digesting the pancreas itself. It can turn chronic as it did in Dazzle where she was not well but not in the sort of pain they have with acute pancreatitis.

Like you, I'm not a fan of prescription diets (nor dry food at all to be honest) and despite my vet's reservations, I decided to keep her on the raw diet I had started about 6 months before. I do add in some wholemeal biscuit as I found this helped to stop her having hypos (low BG). It's difficult with raw food to always be sure you are giving them the same every meal so I've found the biscuit helps to even things out.

I do hope that Blue is soon stabilised and that he doesn't have EPI as well but if he has, it's not difficult to treat - Dazzle has two capsules of digestive enzymes with each meal. Now I'm fighting to get her weight down! :D

loulou

03-30-2010, 01:18 PM

Thanks so much for you replies. I will try to answer everything but forgive me if I miss anything and prompt me. I need all the help I can get.

They have carried out a glucose curve and it's confirmed he is insulin resistant. This could be caused just by his pancreatitis or additional factors, there is nothing we can do for that except diet so I may need to get a specialist advice. He showed no symptoms of pnacreatitis other than the weight lose, it was identified as part of the testing process. He didn't have the runs and wasn't sick. He has a good appetite despite being so skinny.

We feed him at 6am, insulin at 6.30.
Roughly 9am
Roughly 12pm
Roughly2.30
6pm and insulin at 6.30

They did show me his curve but I didn't get a copy, it did move down with the insulin but only slightly. In his first curve test he was 33 something, he was now in his late 20s and neved came down further than mid twenties. I can get the detailed information if it's helpful.

The other possibilities for the resistance are a UTI which can be treated with antibiotics or malabsorbtion. If it's malabsorbtion then they will look at changing his insulin. We just have to wait now. The results should be back in a day or two. I'll post as soon as they come in. You guys are so helpful. My other doggy forum has been a fantastic emotional source of support but I'm the only one on their whose dog has diabetes so no one has any first hand experience.

The vet confirmed that the initial tests ruled out cushings and today he's had an abdominal scan which has ruled out anything sinister in his tummy. As you can image we are massively relieved.

We are still keeping everything crossed that it is simply a complex diabetes case and we'll get there in the end.

I am seeing two different vets a homeopathic one and a regular one. I am hoping between them they can sought him out.

He weighs 27kgs and he is 27inches at the withers. He is skin and bone which is really worrying me. He should be 8/10kgs heavier.

He has lypex capsules with his food. He did have a pancreatic powder initally but had a rare reaction to it and ended up with abrasions in his mouth. Only 2 dogs in the whole country have been reported to have had this reaction!

Patty

03-30-2010, 02:06 PM

Hi Lou,
Out of curiosity what country are you in?

So Blue is 27 kg (59.5 lbs). And to clarify, he's on 29u twice a day? Typically true insulin resistance isn't seen until a dog is at 1 unit of insulin per pound (2 units per kg) and still has high blood sugar.

Can you get a copy of his curve results to post here? That would help quite a bit in offering some suggestions. I'm assuming they fed him at the same times and as you would at home while he was there?

Where are you currently injecting Blue's insulin?

It sounds like they took a urine sample for analysis and culture. That's good to hear.

Let us know on the details of the curve :)
Patty

k9diabetes

03-30-2010, 03:36 PM

Hi Lou,

Please do get a copy of the details of the curve and post them here.

I think it's premature to label him insulin resistant. Since his blood sugar is getting down into the 300s, he is responding to the insulin. I wouldn't consider a dog resistant to insulin unless he was getting twice as many units per injection as Blue is getting and the blood sugar wasn't budging. Some dogs just naturally need more than the average amount.

Any stress, inflammation, or infection tends to raise the blood sugar and need for insulin. Blue has both pancreatitis and conjunctivitis and possibly a UTI apparently going on now or recently so he has a lot of reasons to have higher blood sugar!

Are they planning to now raise his insulin dose?

I'm anxious to see the curve.

Natalie

loulou

03-31-2010, 02:14 AM

Hi I'm based near Leeds in Yorkshire, England.

He doesn't kennel well so we know that he will have been stressed in the hospital.

I gave him boxes of food with the times he needed them on them so I'm hoping they stuck as much to his home routine as they could.

They are not doing anything further until the results of the tests come back. We have a bank holiday here coming up so if I don't hear tomorrow it will be next week.

I'm going to ask them to send me all his test results including these recent ones when they come back and I'll post them.

Thanks for your help, this is a very steep learning curve for us.

We were told to inject him anywhere across his shoulders and neck. He was obviously very uncomfortable this morning as he moved when I injected him. I ended up part in one place and part in another. He is ordinarily an exceptional patient, he has been know not to even get out of bed.

loulou

04-01-2010, 02:41 PM

The dog father has been very well today he's even wanted to go to the park and chase the ball. We've not let him go far obviously but it was heart warming to see him so perky.

The tests aren't back, it'll be next week now due to the long bank holiday.

ladysmom06

04-02-2010, 08:24 AM

Hi Lou,

Welcome to you and Blue.

Great to hear that he's doing better. Good luck to you and Blue.

Noodle

04-02-2010, 10:06 AM

Hi Lou & Blue - Welcome! :)

I'm glad the dog father is starting to feel better & more playful and hope it continues. Referring to him as the dog father made me laugh out loud when I read it. :D

loulou

04-05-2010, 03:26 AM

Blue is very poorly and in the hospital.

He was sick after breakfast so I took him to the vet. She checked him over and tested his blood, his glucose was off the scale. She considered admitting him but as he's still losing weight and he stresses at the vets she said to take him home and watch him closely.

He is now 25.65kg

When we got home I checked his urine and his ketones are sky high. I rang the vet to let thme know we'd be coming back in.The vet needs to try to get him stable. I've been told he won't be home today.

I am going out of my mind with worry. I am so scared he's not going to get better.

Patty

04-05-2010, 06:23 AM

Lou,
I'm so glad you tested for ketones and took him back in. With ketones that high he should be hospitalized so they can give subcutaneous fluids and bring his blood sugar down. Please keep us posted.
Patty

loulou

04-05-2010, 07:26 AM

I have just spoken to the vet. He is no more poorly than his was this morning but he's no better either. They have done a whole load of tests non of the results of which are helping them understand how to make him better. On top of everything else he is anemic and has reduced liver enzymes. He is on a drip and having insulin every two hours. He hasn't been sick again and is eating well.

She said his protein is oaky so it doesn't make sense that he is so thin.

She said he's resonably settled in his kennel which is a worry as if he was even a little better he'd be causing a fuss wanting to be let out.

Can someone please reassure me that they have been down this road with there best pal and have now come out the other side. It's breaking my heart to see him so ill. I need hope that he will get better.

Patty

04-05-2010, 11:40 AM

Lou,
You can google DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) to learn more. It is a dangerous situation but with fluids and lowering blood sugar is treatable.

Weight loss is common in dogs newly diagnosed. When there isn't enough insulin to allow glucose into the cells, it stays in the bloodstream and the cells essentially starve for nutrition. As the blood sugar becomes better controlled you should see Blue's weight stabilize.

Has your vet treated many diabetic dogs before? Unfortunately there are some that just don't have adequate knowledge of this disease.

At one point there was mention of getting a copy of Blue's curve from the clinic. Can you do that while you're there? It sounds like his insulin level is still fairly low.

I'm glad Blue isn't too stressed out and has settled there for know. Have they updated you on his blood sugar and ketone levels?

Patty

ladysmom06

04-05-2010, 12:56 PM

Lou,

So sorry to hear that Blue is in the hospital.

He hasn't been sick again and is eating well.

That's a good sign that he's eating well. Hoping he's feeling better real soon and home with you again.

Keeping the two of you in my thoughts and prayers. Please keep us posted on how he's doing.

loulou

04-05-2010, 01:07 PM

I have just spoken to the vet. He is on intravenus neutral insulin as well as Caninsulin every two hours. He is having blood tests every two hours and his glucose levels are off the scale.

I am waiting for his results from last weeks test then I'll get all the records together.

The vets seem experienced, our vet is also the city emergency vet hospital, they gave me loads of help & info when he was first diagnosed. I think they are baffled as to why he is not responding at all thoughl

Noodle

04-05-2010, 06:06 PM

Just wanted you to know we are all pulling for Blue and hope they are able to get his BG down soon. Any updates since this afternoon?

loulou

04-05-2010, 10:49 PM

I have just phoned and it's mixed news. He is bright and happy with a very waggy tail, he has pulled the nurse around the car park to do a wee and eaten his breakfast. His blood glucose is down, 4.9 when I phoned at 6.30ish am. It was 12.30 around 4am. It's gone too far down which means they can't give the caninsulin in case he crashes.

They will test him again in a couple of hours. The night vet is going to talk to the day vet and give me a call after handover.

Noodle

04-06-2010, 09:34 AM

That's great that they were able to finally bring her blood glucose down and she is feeling so energetic. For those of us in the US, I believe the 4.9 equivalent on our meters is just under 90 (?), so that's not bad at all. Looking forward to another update. :)

ozzi

04-06-2010, 12:48 PM

I'm so happy to hear about "Blue's News" as it were! I was worried when I read the post yesterday and I knew how worried you were, so this is AWESOME news. I hope they get Blue regulated very soon so he can come home!!!
Kevin

loulou

04-06-2010, 12:57 PM

There are no ketones in his wee so that's really good news but sadly his glucose is off the scale again.

His glucose shot back up as soon as they took him off the intravenous insulin. The intravenous insulin is a different brand to his caninsulin. One is cow and one is pig, without my notes I can't remember which. So they gave him the slow acting version of the intravenous brand in the hope that it was this one would suit him better. It's not worked.

He's in the best place and he's no longer in immediate danger but the house is so quiet without him. He has such a big presence.

The vet nurse is besotted and said she can do anything to him, he is so used to giving blood that not only does she not need anyones help he trots out of the cage and gives her is paw when she tells him it's blood test time. 8)

His bloods are showing no underlying cause as to why he's so skinny, it's just his diabetes.

My husband popped to drop off the homeopathic meds and asked if we could have copies of his test results. I'm not sure why but they were reluctant to release them. I don't want to make a fuss yet but if you could tell me how it might help then they might at least release the curve chart.

k9diabetes

04-06-2010, 05:56 PM

So is it back up into 30+ without the intravenous insulin?

Can you find out what insulin they are giving intravenously?

There is NPH-type insulin available there and it would be good if they were to try that. Margaret I think has been working on using pork-based NPH type insulin but there is also the one with human insulin available.

Our dog did not do well on either of the two types of insulin available and we actually gave him Regular human insulin (a kind that is often given intravenously) only. It worked great for him given SubQ. But it does have to be given more times a day. Three or four. We gave it four times a day - every six hours and we did very well on that for his last three years after all other trials failed.

It's possible he's having an allergic response to something in the insulin and an allergic response would drive his blood sugar higher.

To me at least, his weight loss could be due largely to his very high blood sugar. Without insulin the body can use, the weight loss is dramatic and it doesn't matter how much you feed them because the glucose from their food all just washes out unless there is insulin to go with it.

I'm told that vets there are usually reluctant to provide test results. Which I REALLY don't understand. You may simply have to be adamant about it. It's your dog and you paid for them after all. Maybe ask what harm it would cause or why they do not want to give them out.

Natalie

loulou

04-06-2010, 09:33 PM

Thanks Natalie

She did mention the human insulin if this one failed.

His glucose is still high but he's only had one dose of it so far. I'll try to be patient but I just want him well and home. It's the cow insulin they were given intravenously so switched to that long lasting one.

We can ensure one of us is with him 24/7 if needs be so more regular doses wouldn't be a problem. I'll speak to the vet afterward round and see what she says.

loulou

04-08-2010, 12:51 PM

Blue is in Liverpool uni vet hospital. Our vet could do no more for him. He is being tested for everything possible and they are trying to get his diabetes under control. They have given us a glimmer of hope where as yesterday we had non. He will be in until Tuesday at least.

Patty

04-08-2010, 01:16 PM

Lou,
Thinking of you and Blue. I do hope they can sort things out. Glad they transferred him to the university.
Patty

Noodle

04-08-2010, 02:12 PM

I'm sorry to hear he is still hospitalized, but it sounds encouraging that he is at the university where he can get specialized care. I hope they are able to pin point what's going on and the best way to handle it. Wishing Blue a successful stay and a return to good health.

loulou

04-14-2010, 06:05 AM

Blue is home. He's very tired and was very glad to see us.

We have a few more tests to get the results of and the plan is to keep him on the same regime for about two weeks and see what happens. There is still a small chance there is something else but they want to see how he responds before doing biopsies.

His regime is very simlar to what it was before TBH. Other than switching to hilld i/d wet tinned food (we were on dry) and reducing his insulin everything else is the same. He is now on 15 units twice a day. She explained that she thinks he might have been getting too much insulin and his body was reacting to that by becoming a self fulfilling prophercy and so his blood sugar was continuously high.

It's so good to have him home. We had a reasonably settled night.

We took Inca with us yesterday and her first reaction was to start picking on him. As soon as Blue got home he retrieved a trainer for us. Simple things but normality in our lives.

We just have to hope, pray, cross fingers etc...

Patty

04-14-2010, 06:19 AM

So glad to hear Blue is back home! Sounds like they think rebound was the primary issue. What insulin did they wind up leaving him on?

Keep us posted! :)
Patty

loulou

04-14-2010, 01:13 PM

Thanks Patty

They have kept him on the Caninsulin (Porcine).

Can you point me towards information on rebound please. This is all very new to me. I want to learn as much as I can so that I can help him.

Many thanks

Lou

Noodle

04-14-2010, 01:26 PM

I'm happy to hear Blue is home. :)

Here are a couple of links that explain rebound (Somogyi):

http://www.caninediabetes.org/somygi.html

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

ladysmom06

04-15-2010, 09:52 AM

Happy :):) to hear that Blue is back home with you. Good luck and please let us know how he continues to do.

loulou

04-16-2010, 05:01 AM

Thank you so much for the information on the Somogyi effect. I was just so delighted to see him I hadn't reviewed the vet discharge papers and it definitely says this is suspected.

Please keep everything crossed this is the answer.

He is so bright and well in himself if he wasn't so skeletal you would never know there was anything wrong with him.

You guys will never know how much of a support you have been, thanks again.

Patty

04-16-2010, 06:50 AM

So glad he's feeling better Lou!

k9diabetes

04-16-2010, 08:12 AM

What great news! I hope all of the tests bring good news.

Natalie

loulou

04-23-2010, 05:16 AM

We are going to do a glucose curve this weekend. We have been asked to do 12 hours and if possible 24.

The Liverpool vet suggested that we do it at home as Blue isn't happy being in the vets. He's fine with the vets in general it's just that he doesn't like being shut away on his own, he wants to be in on the action. I doubt if it is something the local vet would have suggested.

We are obviously apprehensive but feel this is good news for a number of reasons.

Firstly it's better for Blue to be at but also we'll have the results that we will be able to share.

The machine should be delivered to the vets today and we'll need to go in to learn how to use it and how to chart the results.

I'll post again once we seen the vet this afternoon.

HugosMom

04-23-2010, 06:53 AM

loulou

04-23-2010, 07:24 AM

Hi Lou, I'm new myself. Good luck with the curve! :)

:o Hope you don't find this too forward but I created some curve templates in iWork Numbers and also converted them to MS Excel. They are based on the amazing curves I've seen on this site. You just type in the numbers and it draws the curve for you. I would be happy to send them to you if you need them.

Thanks that would be fantastic. We are still very new to this. Our appointment at the vet is 5.30pm (GMT)

I am worried I might hurt him but I know it's better that he is with us.

HugosMom

04-23-2010, 07:34 AM

Glad I can help in some way! I sent you a message with details. Let me know if you got it and where I can send the file.

Kirbi

loulou

04-23-2010, 12:45 PM

The kit we are using is AlphaTRAK the measures are mmol/L

He was 26.7 when we measured him at the vets.

Pleased let me know if there is anything else I need to tell you.

HugosMom

04-23-2010, 04:24 PM

Hi Lou, do you have Microsoft Excel? I'll send you my e-mail address and if you respond, I can send you the attachment.

loulou

04-24-2010, 12:48 AM

I am feeling very low and helpless

his 6am reading was 27.3 and his 8am reading was off the scale - it just said HI. We even did it again just to check we hadn't done something wrong.

He has his insulin at 6.30am. What explanation could there be for it being so high after the insulin?

I just want to make my boy well again so that he can enjoy life. It's a beautiful day here but we'll be lucky if he manages a potter around the park.

The amasing thing is that he is still so happy and bright in himself. He is such a trooper.

loulou

04-24-2010, 02:07 AM

His 10am reading is off the scale too.

HugosMom

04-24-2010, 04:51 AM

Hi Lou, I'm not very experienced yet but I did a curve the other day and after Hugo had the same "HI" reading, Natalie told me to check his ketones with the urine sticks. She said if he has even a trace, it's an emergency. Sorry I can't give you much more than that.

Also, when Hugo had that reading, he was walking slowly around the house but I picked up his leash and he seemed to really want to go. Perhaps you should wait for the go-ahead from one of the knowledgeable people here first but I took him for a walk. I had read from Carol's website that exercise helps lower the BG in some dogs. I just don't want to tell you to do something you shouldn't be doing with a high reading like that.

I'm sure someone will jump in soon! Hang in there!

peggy0

04-24-2010, 06:14 AM

Hi Lou,

I believe you are going to the vet today? Or was it yesterday? Are you still on 30U of caninsulin? As Patti mentioned before, dogs aren't considered insulin resistant until they have reached 1 U per pound. I would ask the vet about human insulin. Many hear have moved to it and have done very well in regulating their dog. Exercise will bring his BG down some if he has the energy. Let us know how the vet appt went.

loulou

04-24-2010, 06:33 AM

All his readings except the first one have been hi. I checked his urine this morning and it was ketone neutral.

We weren't going to exercise him today so we didn't interfer with the curve but I think we will now.

He does very little and we only take him to the park so he can do as much or as little as he's able.

The hospital vet took his insulin back down to 15 units twice per day.

When he was in hospital a few weeks ago they changed his insulin but that didn't seem to work either. When I asked about human insulin I was told it wasn't an option.

Patty

04-24-2010, 08:40 AM

Hi Lou,
I had a post half written to you and bumped my mouse and lost the page. Let me try again.

Most likely he's running high due to the reduced insulin dose. My guess is after this curve they will have you raise his insulin by a unit and have you do another curve in 3-5 days.

Exercise is good for lowering blood sugar with a few cautions to keep in mind

- too much vigorous exercise can lower blood sugar too fast and cause rebound (100mg/dL or about 5.5mmol/l points in an hour) where the counter regulatory hormones kick in to try to save the body from the fast drop or blood sugar that is too low

- exercising when the blood sugar is rising such as at the end of the 12 hours when insulin may be waning can drive it up further.

As far as the human insulin, we've seen that many vets don't have experience using it so they don't feel comfortable recommending it unless there isn't another option. If you take a look at Margaret and Lucy's thread http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=596 she commented on Humulin that is available over there. Humulin NPH that many of us use here is called Humulin I over there.

I would imagine with a gradual increase in insulin and the curves you do that you will be able to sort out the food/insulin balance for Blue.

I would keep testing for ketones in the mean time. Keep us posted!
Patty

loulou

04-24-2010, 08:47 AM

Thanks everyone. It is still off the scale.

We are very cautious about the exercise and don't take him every day. The vets are worrying us because it feels like they don't know how to get him under control. His continued weight loss is also causing concern.

Here's a link to some photos of him, http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=160054&id=592446587&l=378d4d3048

He is literally skin and bone.

HugosMom

04-24-2010, 09:12 AM

Thanks for sharing the pictures Lou. Blue is lucky to have such a caring family. We're pulling for you Blue!

loulou

04-24-2010, 10:43 AM

Right before his insulin he was 27.6.

Patty

04-24-2010, 12:13 PM

Lou,
Sounds like Blue has a mountain curve with lowest blood sugar at mealtime/insulin. I would feel comfortable increasing his insulin 1 unit with those numbers.

What a beautiful boy! Thanks for sharing the pictures. Hopefully his blood sugar will come down so he can put some weight back on!
Patty

CarolW

04-24-2010, 12:22 PM

Hi Lou,

I have a few thoughts - anything I say here is open to comment by those who know more than I do. Or less!

First, about exercise. Creatures, including diabetic dogs, do best when they exercise every day, assuming the exercise is LIGHT to moderate ONLY. And maybe only for short periods, for Blue, for now. Will Blue accept a short walk on a leash? Or, if he's not used to a leash, just a really short walk in the park, and interrupt him and take him home if he starts really acting up.

Well, Kumbi is a terrier, and HE WILL act up - get all excited - setting up a demand for glucose in himself - then burning it up fast! So for us, we have some jagged mountains and valleys in the curves, here and there. But since Kumbi's companion, Kwali, died last November, he walks a lot more quietly, and seldom gets really excited.

Timing of exercise makes a difference, too. Ideally, it's good to do it maybe a few hours after the morning meal and insulin - go lightly; go lightly - and not for long! With Kumbi, I also take him out in mid-afternoon, but give him a tiny snack either before or after his walk, as that's his typical time for his insulin to be peaking - for him to be at his nadir; that is, his lowest BG for the day.

I think often dog-people greatly underestimate what a LITTLE exercise can and will do for a dog. Part of the joy of a walk is just the chance to sniff and explore - it's a mental recreation. This can do wonders for a dog. In the last 40 years or so, "dog-sports" (they are really human-sports, where the dogs do the sporting [grin]) have really burgeoned. So have human-sports, and ideas like keeping fit, doing aerobic exercise - and - well, we humans can overdo anything, any time, and often we do!

I'm in the enviable position of being long-retired, and home all the time with Kumbi, so I can make alterations as needed. And because taking walks DOES depend on weather, also traffic, Kumbi and I have to make alterations often. I did notice, last winter, that Kumbi wasn't getting enough walks; his BGs started climbing. So I resolved to take him out even in the rain- in his 25-year-old-raincoat - GOT to get him a better one!

That helped a lot; he stabilized a lot better when I saw to it he got two small or very moderate walks in a day. Can't always do that.

And, if we have a day with very high excitement, or duration, on a walk, then I'll try to do only one very light walk the next day, as it takes a couple of days for the stress-hormone levels brought out by high excitement or hard exercise to subside to a kind of base level.

So, there are my thoughts on exercise. If Blue's walks are unavoidably always really energetic, maybe you can change where and how you walk him (thus the leash idea).

About insulin, I do think you might really find the Humulin-I would work really well for Blue. I'm in Canada; we have Caninsulin here, but Kumbi has been on Novolin-NPH (an insulin very similar to Humulin-NPH - where you are, I gather it's called Humulin-I - thanks, Patty!). Although it took us over a year to get him well-regulated, we did manage it, eventually, and Kumbi has had long, stable periods on this insulin.

I'm not clear on which insulin Blue is on right now? Still Caninsulin? Or something else? If so, what is the something-else called?

I thought Patty's ideas were excellent, and Peggy also had really good information for you, so please don't lose heart.

Do stick with us, and keep asking your questions! We'll hold your hand and provide (at least I will) bony shoulders on which you can cry when it's all too much. Then Kumbi will bring you a tissue, if you ask him nicely; it's a specialty of his! And he delivers a few licks and wags to Blue.

Sat, 24 Apr 2010 12:19:14 (PDT)

Patty

04-24-2010, 12:54 PM

As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong Lou), Blue is currently on:

Caninsulin 15u twice daily (reduced from 30u prior to hospitalization)

Fed at:
We feed him at 6am, insulin at 6.30.
Roughly 9am
Roughly 12pm
Roughly2.30
6pm and insulin at 6.30

diet of Hills i/d and white fish and chicken started on dry, now on hills i/d wet tinned food

I do wonder about the difference his curve may have from daytime vs. nighttime with the multiple feedings during the day and not overnight.

k9diabetes

04-24-2010, 03:23 PM

Blue is very seriously emaciated... are you already seeing a specialist? (my apologies as I don't have time right now to go back through the thread)

It seems to me that it's becoming critical to put some weight back on this boy and that will require getting his blood sugar down possibly in the hospital with IV insulin and nutrients. Perhaps he has a digestive disorder such as EPI that's preventing him from gaining weight...

If the current vets can't figure it out, they need to find input from someone who can.

What was the reason for the drastic drop in insulin dose?

Natalie

loulou

04-25-2010, 02:11 AM

It was the university hospital who took his insulin right down. I think they wanted to go back to basics. He has seen three different practices so far and five different vets.

His regime changed slightly after the stay in the vet hospital. It's now:-

6am 1 tin of Hills I/D
6.30am insulin
12.00 1 tin of Hills I/D
6pm 1 tin of Hills I/D
6.30pm insulin
12pm 1 tin of Hills I/D

I know he is too thin, he has been for a long time, I am at my wits end as to what to do. He also has pancreatitis and has additional enzymes in his food.

We are seriously considering changing his food. There is a brand here called Chappie which is lower in fat than the Hills, also when we were supplimenting his food with chicken and fish he didn't lose as much weight. I am seriously thinking of cutting out commercial and just feeding him chicken and fish. The vets were reluctant to take him off the hills. The hill is high in cereal though, surely that's not good for his diabetes?

He doesn't get over excited with exercise, the only reason for restricting it is because he's so thin, we can't afford him to lose any more weight.

It is breaking my heart seeing him like this.

peggy0

04-25-2010, 06:13 AM

Some dogs BGs spike after eating. Given he is eating 4 times a day, the insulin isn't balanced with the food, or as natalie said, it's an issue with the insulin, not enough or the wrong type for your dog. ID is for dog with digestion issues, so the vet gave him this to deal with the pancreatitis. many dogs here have done well on home cooked meals as well as commercial. Chappies is high in cereal as well. Margaret on the forum hear uses Burns High Oats, but its not recommended when dogs need to gain weight. Can you order Orijen? I know they sell it in the UK on some of the pet suppliers. Its a very good food. Several here use it. Its a nice blend of proteins and good carbs and veggies. You do need to find a vet who can get his BGs down with the correct insulin. I'm sorry you've tried so many avenues here and have gotten nowhere. I would really push the university to try the human insulin. Humulin I is Eli Lillys version of our Humulin N which has worked very nicely for the majority of dogs on the forum here. There are also many on the board here who home cook for their dogs and can provide recipes if you are interested.

O'Riley

04-25-2010, 06:52 AM

Since Riley's diagnosis, I've been feeding him chicken breast, green beans, brown rice and sweet potatoes...day-in and day-out. I knew it wasn't balanced, so I was lucky to find this simple, balanced (and free!) recipe put together by Dr. Susan Wynn. I've read some of her studies and she's a true scientist and top notch nutritionist, so I was happy to find a diet similar to what I've been feeding Riley, with everything in the right proportion.

http://www.susanwynn.com/Homemade_Diet_Recipe.php

Since your baby needs to gain weight, you could just feed larger portions. Once the glucose is regulated, I've read that underweight dogs will once again start to utilize the calories and put some weight back on.

k9diabetes

04-25-2010, 08:46 AM

I'm almost more concerned that he just get some calories, any calories, into him for a few days. So I was wondering if it is possible to put him on IV insulin if they have found something that works that way (I was thinking that they had) literally just to nourish him. Not as a permanent fix but as a short-term way to maintain him. Feed him as much as he would eat and meet that glucose with the IV insulin... I have no idea if this is possible.

I agree that they should try the human insulin. Probably 90% of the dogs on this forum now are on it because of the FDA pulling Vetsulin and they are all doing well with it.

Beef insulin generally is not a good match for dogs - it usually creates quite a bit of immune system resistance.

There seems to be a lot of resistance to using human insulin in the UK, which is unfortunate because it is a tried and true insulin with dogs here in the states and incredibly affordable.

He's an amazing dog to be happy through all of this.

Natalie

loulou

04-26-2010, 11:25 AM

I emailed the liverpool vet yesterday giving them the glucose curve results, I am waiting for them to call me back. I have also told them I really don't think the diet is helping as it is high in cereal. I have said I want to review his diet. I have suggested we get input from a nutritionist.

They have suggested we may need to do more tests in the way of biopsies but I don't want to put him through that until we have his diabetes stable. He had imaging tests which didn't show anything that couldn't be related to his diabetes.

He glucose did go down on IV insulin but then it went too far down. Because his glucose went down on IV insulin the vets seem to think that Caninsulin will work once we are at the right dose. I will suggest human insulin as an alternative and let you know what they say. The thing is for a big dog his dose is still way under what it could be. I believe that it's normal for a dog to be having 2xunits per kilo of weight per day. If his weight was around 35 kg he could be on 35 units 2x per day is that right? He's only on 19 at the moment. He was a slim dog before so could easily have carried a few more kgs without looking fat.

peggy0

04-26-2010, 01:38 PM

I think that's a good plan. Yes he can certainly have more insulin. The dosage is typically .5 unit per kg, but i don't beleive they view it as insulin resistance until its 1u. I'll let Natalie chime in on that one. I think getting a nutritionist is an excellent idea. If they have experience with diabetics, that would be ideal. My dog weighed 36 kg and was on 23 units of vetsulin but wasn't nearly as well regulated as he was on Humulin. With Humulin, his dosage ended up being 22 units 2x a day and his curve was pretty flat. No spikes and only about 100 points between low and high. It took me about 4 weeks to regulate him when I moved to the human insulin. He was eating though, so it is very important to deal with the food. Hope you get some good insight from the vet.

loulou

04-27-2010, 05:00 AM

He's got to back to Liverpool for more tests.

They feel that he is losing more weight than he should even for a diabetic dog whose diabetes isn't controlled. They want to rule out either another gastr-intestinal disease or lymphoma.

We discussed a home cooked diet but she said he would still need some carbs so commercial is better as he is getting the same each time.

We also discussed different types of insulin and she said she is happy to go down this route once she has ruled out anything else and determined for sure that he is insulin resistant.

She isn't going to increase his insulin at this stage in case it causes the swining effect.

Patty

04-27-2010, 11:19 AM

Lou,
Did they do the blood test for Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency that Jan and Natalie talked about?

I'm really concerned that the vet won't increase insulin do to the fear of rebound. When they suspected it before he was on a much higher dose. A 1 unit increase with the numbers you got should be a safe decision.

If IV insulin lowered his blood sugar too much they should be able to reduce the amount and/or balance with a glucose drip.

I just don't want to see them take too much time testing before they are willing to increase and/or switch his insulin.

Patty

k9diabetes

04-27-2010, 11:47 AM

I hope they will check his blood sugar and determine whether the current amount is anything like enough...

Whether he's wasted away more than would be typical of uncontrolled diabetes is not at all clear to me because I only have a very fuzzy picture of where his blood sugar has been over the past week or ten days. If every day his blood sugar has been exceeding 600 most of the day and he started out thin, I think his lack of blood sugar control could be enough to explain why he just keeps getting thinner.

That's not to say there isn't something else behind the original weight loss.

He is in a muscle-wasted condition in what I can see from the photographs and muscle wasting like that can be a symptom of other very serious disease processes.

The fact that he felt pretty good when first put on 15 units of insulin makes me think it's not necessarily a terribly low dose under normal circumstances.

When other things are going on, blood sugar control can be nearly impossible... it is a very muddy and concerning picture right now. I would certainly recommend that they test for the EPI if they haven't already.

It's the kind of thing where answers are potentially really scary and yet answers are what is needed.

I'm sending along all the "get well" vibes I've got for Blue and am so hoping for some good news for him.

Natalie

Ladybug

04-27-2010, 03:41 PM

Hi Lou,

Keeping you and Blue in my thoughts and prayers.

Linda and Ladybug

loulou

04-27-2010, 10:36 PM

He already has a pancreatic enzyme called Lypex added to his food.

They rang me back later in the evening to organise an appointment. He goes in on Friday. They have increased his insulin to 18 units.

I think they want to rule out or find out whether or not there is something else interfering with his diabetes which is making it harder to control.

We are just so worried about him but at least the vets have organised his tests so that he can come home the same day. Normally they would have an overnight stay but they appreciate Blue doesn't kennel well which wouldn't help his health if he had to stay in.

CarolW

04-27-2010, 11:50 PM

Wishing you and Blue every possible bit of luck, Lou!

I'm here watching and rooting for you.

Tue, 27 Apr 2010 23:50:11 (PDT)

ladysmom06

04-28-2010, 12:41 PM

Keeping Blue in my thoughts and prayers. Hoping you get everything sorted out.

HugosMom

04-28-2010, 06:44 PM

Praying for you Blue.

O'Riley

04-29-2010, 05:45 PM

LouLou....which enzymes did you try to use that caused Blue to have sores in his mouth? I found this information while researching EPI:

PORCINE(pfd)ENZYMES breaks down food / Approx: 1 tsp powdered enzymes per 1 cup dry food, 1/2-3/4tsp per cup raw food, 3/4tsp per canned food / Soak with water to prevent mouth and throat sores / Soften food for minimum of 20 minutes - maximum of 1hr / Heat destroys enzymes, cold inhibits enzymes... use room temperature food / Store below 86 deg F (30 deg C) and at less than 70% humidity.

http://www.epi4dogs.com/

Do you think it would be worth trying the enzymes again, but this time soaking them with water first?

loulou

05-08-2010, 02:33 AM

The biopsies revealed that Blue also has lympho-plasmacytic gastroenteritis and lacteal dilation affecting the duodenum.

His med regime is :-

Week 1
Chlorambucil 6mg/m2 (4mg total) SID for 7 days
Prednisolene (1mg/kg (25mg total) SID for 7 days

Week 2 -3
Chlorambucil 3 mg/m2 (2mg total) for 14 days
Prednisolone 1mg/kg (continue 25mg total dose) DID for 7 days, then 0.5mh/kg (12.5mg total) SID for 7 days

He needs a weekly weigh in and weekly haematology and biochemistry.

He has had no symptoms of any of these conditions other than the weight loss, no vomiting, diarrhorea etc.

We need to change his food to Royal Canin Hypoallergenic.

These drugs all interfer with his diabetes but so do the conditions. He is now losing the sight in his poorly eye due to not being able to control his diabetes.

We know that he may not respond to treatment but it is our only hope.

CarolW

05-08-2010, 09:38 PM

Hi Lou,

That's quite a fight you and Blue are engaged in. I can only do this - wish both of you the very, very best, so that is what I'm doing.

Please keep us posted.

Sat, 8 May 2010 21:38:19 (PDT)

k9diabetes

05-08-2010, 10:09 PM

Hi Lou,

I think your dog has something like my cat - Gus has IBD shading into lymphoma. Apparently, in cats it's something of a spectrum between the two with the IBD getting worse over time and becoming lymphoma. We were fortunate to have caught his early, more on the IBD phase with early beginnings of lymphoma and have been treating him for more than a year now successfully.

He is on the same meds as Blue - prednisone (as prednisolone) and Leukeran, which is the Chlorambucil.

Is this also what they call a "protein losing enteropathy"?

I see a lot of associations of that term with the ones you listed and I know PLE dogs tend to get very very thin.

I am acquainted with a dog who was diagnosed with PLE and did very well with treatment - surprised his person and their vet as he had been having a hard time for ages and just wasn't properly diagnosed. I will go back into my email and see what they did with him and pass it along just in case it's helpful.

Finally some answers. I'm glad for that. And I hope that Blue can beat this back. He's obviously a fighter.

Natalie

Patty

05-09-2010, 01:12 PM

Lou,
So glad to hear there are some answers from the biospies they did. I do hope this new course of treatment will be the answer for Blue.

Please keep us posted!
Patty

ladysmom06

05-09-2010, 01:18 PM

Hi Lou,

Hoping the new treatment works for Blue.

HugosMom

05-09-2010, 05:25 PM

Hi Lou,

Glad to hear you have a course of action. Thanks for keeping us updated. We're all thinking of you and Blue. :)

k9diabetes

05-10-2010, 12:58 AM

Oreo, the other PLE dog I knew did very well with a drastic diet change to something that he wasn't reactive to. In his case, a mash of baked potato, low-fat cottage cheese and green peas. And she fed him huge portions so he'd get all the calories he could out of it.

I just wanted to say that everyone here at my house has everything crossed for Blue's recovery.

Natalie

peggy0

05-10-2010, 05:50 AM

Hi sure hope Blue responds to the treatment! Please keep us posted on how he is doing.

loulou

05-17-2010, 10:24 AM

Sorry I've not been on for a while, I have to admit we have had a very rough few days. A lot has happened. Blue has gone blind since I last posted. It has happened very quickly. He has gone from having limited sight to blind in less than a week.

On Thursday Blue had a small fit. He had a couple just after he was diagnosed and had had them a few years before. We now think it's all connected to his diabetes not being under control. They don't last long, not even a few minutes but because of his blindness it was harder to get him back than it used to be.

On Friday we took him back to the vet for a weigh in and a blood check up. We were devastated to learn he'd lost a further two kgs. We knew he'd lost some but this is the biggest weight loss for a long time. The vet was very pessimistic about his outlook even though his blood tests didn't show anything we weren't expecting and didn't show any problems with his bones - a potential side effect of the drugs. You will know the conversations we will have been having and can imagine how many tears I cried. All the while Blue is still the same happy boy, he knew when we were near the vets and sung to us on the way there. I left a messge for the Liverpool vet to give me a call. But once I'd calmed down I gave myself a good talking to. To be fair he's only been on the drugs a week and he has only just had the new food introduced, we were doing it gradually so as not to chance upsetting his tum and we were told any recovery would take time. I felt we needed to give things chance to work. When Liverpool phoned me back the vet was very much of the same opinion that we need to give it time for the changes to kick in. He also said that the probable reason behind the weight loss was the drugs interference with his diabetes which we knew would happen. We have increased his insulin (now 20 units) and was told to do another curve after a few days. We have also been told to put him 100% on the new food and put him back on the enzymes, the vet didn't think they'd help but agreed they wouldn't do any harm so we have nothing to lose.

On Saturday night we had quite a rough night as Blue was very unsettled, we got up and realised why. He had been leaking urine during the night. We wondered if this was because he was nervous about going out. He used to tap the french window but because he's blinf he can't do that now. We are allowing him to wee on the patio next to the house to avoid more stairs than necessary but there are still two unavoidable steps to get out of the house. We are sleeping in the living room with him to avoid stairs in the house and have been for weeks. We have got the car ramp out of the garage and hoped that might help but he is gaining confidence now so we aren't really using it.

We are gradually finding what works for Blue to make him feel more secure. We are constantly talking to him if we move so that he knows where we are and if we are still we keep connected to him in some way if we can even if it just staying touching him. We tap his food and water bowls so he can locate them and Inca now has a bell as well as the tags on her collar. We are spraying air freshner on the door frames. We are rattling a little box of treats if we need to guide him and using the word careful if he is about to walk into something. It doesn't always work but we are getting there. One thing we have noticed is that he is wrapping us around his paw He is becoming more stubborn knowing we will give in and give him a treat to get him to do what we want him to do. Go Blue.

We have noticed his poo getting less frequent and more solid. Liverpool think this is a good sign that he might be starting to absorb the food better. We dare not get our hopes up but are hoping and praying this is the corner we need to turn.

We started his curve at 8.20am today, I was on my own until then so had no choice. We had two high readings then a couple at 24.? and then one at 27.?, we are now back to high but we have a couple more readings to take. This seems positive to me as the last one we did we only got two not Hi readings and they were both 27.?.

Despite being a bag of bones he is still happy and very waggy.

We take him back for a weigh in on Friday.

Thanks to everyone for your support. It is breaking my heart to see the dog father so poorly. He is still the superstar he always was, yesterday he met loads of dogs and he was just Blue despite not being about to see them now.

Patty

05-17-2010, 12:04 PM

Lou,
It's so good to hear an update from you. I'm sorry to hear about Blue's vision but glad to hear he's gaining confidence.

Definitely frustrating he's lost some more weight but I do hope the change in stools means he's absorbing his food better as well.

We are really praying for a big recovery for him!
Take care and keep us posted,
Patty

CarolW

05-17-2010, 12:15 PM

Lou - just keep up the GREAT work! I'm sure Blue really appreciates it! Sounds as though you're doing everything right to cope with the blindness, too. We're really rooting for you and Blue! I have high hopes for his improvement.

Hugs to you!

Mon, 17 May 2010 12:15:05 (PDT)

loulou

06-01-2010, 11:47 AM

I haven't been on for a while as I have been in Istanbul with my MBA colleagues. I was a very hard decision to go but thanksfully all was okay whilst I was away. Until I got back that is...

I got back home at around 2am on 29.05.10 (my birthday). I had to get up at 6am to start Blue's gluose curve. We did the first test at 6am, it was off the scale high which isn't unusual for Blue. I asked K if it was okay if I went back to bed as I had missed a whole nights sleep. I got up again at 8am for his second test. When i got up at 8am Blue's glucose was still off the scale high and K mentioned Blue had tried to be sick, he had seemed a little off his breakfast but we thought it might have been due to it turning to mush as it was in water longer than normal. As soon as K mentioned the wretching alarm bells went off and I asked if he'd checked Blue for ketones. He hadn't so did it the next time Blue weed and they were high too. We were at the vets by just after 9am. The vets wanted to admit him but we felt that we could keep a closer eye at home and he would be happier at home. After some negotiation we were allowed to keep him with us. He was given a dose of fast acting insulin. We were told to continue with his curve and report back after three tests. Of the three only 1 was readable as it was so high. We had to take him in for another shot. We then had to test him every hour and when he wasn't coming down take him back for yet another shot every hour. When it still wasn't down he had a fast acting shot plus we gave him his usual dose. He has gradually came down is lower than we've ever seen it when we've been testing.

We continued testing over the rest of the night Saturday and on Sunday. We didn't have enough strips to do every two hours so tested around insulin and meal times. So far we have continued to stay on the scale.

We are wondering if this is due to stress. Me coming home and being taken upstairs last night. As I had the hairdryer K couldn't set up the blow up bed. We thought it was worth trying if he might manage the stairs now we know it is blindenss not fraility making him stumble. He got very concerned and needed to be carried both ways. We are now back camping in the living room.

By Monday all the ketones had gone and I had the most wonderful birthday present from Blue. His glucose levels remained stable and mostly in the place we want them to be despite only being on his normal insultin

We dare not hope it will continue but are keeping everything crossed. He had put on some weight but then lost some again when his glucose went haywire. We had him weighed again today and he has put on 1/2kg since Saturday.

We had a really rough day on Saturday but once again the dog father has come through for us and told us he is no where near giving up the fight yet.

Today Liverpool phoned me and as we were on the phone our vet phoned them. When I spoke to Liverpool they hadn't received the glucose curve email. They said they would check the curve, speak to our vet and call me back. They haven't yet but our vet has phoned to say we need to collect some more drugs, Liverpool want to keep him on the drugs for at least another 3 weeks. I guess from that they think they are working.

We still have no reason to be anything other than cautiously optimistic we can get him some like well again.

I will call Liverpool again tomorrow for a full update.

Sorry for the long post, there was a lot to tell you.

Patty

06-01-2010, 12:18 PM

Lou,
It's good to hear from you! Wow, what a time of it you all had Saturday. :( So glad you thought to test his ketones.

By Monday all the ketones had gone and I had the most wonderful birthday present from Blue. His glucose levels remained stable and mostly in the place we want them to be despite only being on his normal insultin

I'm so glad to hear things were going well by Monday. We are cautiously optimistic with you! :)
Patty

CarolW

06-01-2010, 12:21 PM

You said it, Patty! Yeah, Lou; that's quite a time you've been having! Get some sleep when you can. I'm SO glad Blue came out of that rough time - you are a fabulously dedicated DogMum, but I knew that!

Please keep us posted!

Tue, 1 Jun 2010 12:20:56 (PDT)

k9diabetes

06-02-2010, 01:04 PM

Hi Lou,

I'm so glad you caught the ketone issue and got your boy to the vet.

Congrats too on the weight gain! Now you know it's possible - I think for a while even that was in doubt.

He's a fighter, that's for sure. And it seems like the vets are heading in the right direction.

It is hard to know what caused the ketones. I'm sure stress could play a part in a dog with IBD too. The important thing is that he's back from the brink once again.

Please let us know what Liverpool says.

Natalie

loulou

06-10-2010, 06:06 AM

Hi everyone

Thank you so much for your support, I hope you have an understanding of how much it really does help.

Blue is still doing okay, he is very very slowly putting a little weight on, only 15 grams here and there but he is no longer losing which is the main thing.

At the weekend we performed another curve, his is still massively hyperglycemic. Of a 12 hour test we only got 4 readings but this is better than before when we only got two so we see this as positive. Liverpool have increased in insulin to 22 units per injection and asked us to do another curve last week. He is still on the drugs although they are gradually reducing the prednisolone.

Despite being so ill he is still full of fun, as full of life as can be expected and very stubborn. I have attached some recent photos of our day at the seaside last week.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=170292&id=592446587&l=bdc4e22f5b

The weather was fantastic for the UK which brings me to a question of how to keep the insulin cool on days out? Are there any doggy products or so you use human carry cases?

We just made sure we got home in time but it would be nice to stay out longer if we can find a reliable carry case for his insulin and needles.

Patty

06-10-2010, 06:13 AM

Thanks for the update Lou. So excited he's putting on a little bit of weight! Your pictures were great.

I have a small cooler made especially for insulin vials that was passed on to me from my grandmother who was a type 1 diabetic. I'll see if I can find a link online for it later.

Take care,
Patty

loulou

06-22-2010, 11:41 AM

Blue is doing fantastically well at the moment. So well that we have even been able to move back upstairs ago. Our only problem is he is too enthusiastic coming down stairs so needs a lot of help.

We did another curve on him at the weekend and we are finally starting to get somewhere with his diabetes.

5.52am - 22.9
6.00am - Food
6.30am - Insulin
8.00am - 26.9
9.55am - 21.3
12.01pm - 18.04
12.05pm - Food
14.06pm - 25.6
16.03pm - 21.4
17.50pm - Hi
18.00pm - Food
18.30pm - Insulin
19.44pm - Hi

This is fantastic for us as it's the most readings we've ever had. I spoke to Liverpool today who are delighted with his progress. He admitted Blue has been one of his most difficult cases to treat. We are continuing on the drugs and increasing his insulin to 25 units. We are to do another curve in about 10 days.

Blue is getting used to walking now and takes new places in his stride. Apart from being blind he is pretty much his old self again. We have got a little coolerpouch for his meds nd his insulin, we are hoping to camp overnight with him at the weekend.

k9diabetes

06-22-2010, 11:54 AM

:) Oh Lou! That's is such wonderful and amazing news!! :)

All smiles here for you and Blue!

Natalie

HugosMom

06-22-2010, 05:17 PM

Awesome Lou! So happy for you and Blue! :D

Kirbi

Patty

06-23-2010, 01:01 PM

Lou,
Soo happy to hear Blue is making progress :)

Goodness I completely forgot to come back and give you the link to the insulin cooler I have. So sorry. Glad you found one! This is the type of cooler I have. http://www.amazon.com/Medicool-Insulin-Protector-Blue/dp/B000VD3BX4

Good to hear an update!
Patty

loulou

07-07-2010, 02:42 AM

We were due to do another curve at the weekend but he has yet another water infection and the result were just off the scale. We abandoned it suspecting that his infection and the meds were interfering. Liverpool confirmed we'd doen the right thing.

I really want everyone to see how well our boy is doing. I have created him a facebook page so people can keep in touch - he was taking over mine lol. I have posted a few videos on there. Please get any animl friendly people to join him on his journey. I have had so many words of support and people sharing their stories I am really glad I did. He is Blue Parish on FB.

He goes back to the vet today today for blood tests, we need to check his drug aren't doing nasty things we can't see.

loulou

12-05-2010, 04:20 AM

Hi

I haven't been on for a while as life has been very hectic. On Friday Blue celebrated his 8th Birthday. A day we honestly never thought he'd see. He's doing well but seems to have plataued (sp) with his weight. He is still very very skinny but has managed to put on around 3kgs as is usually around 25kgs. His diabetes is still not properly under control but most of the time we are able to get a reading now - when we joined it was off the scale. Unfortunately his conditions have been further complicated by a continuous UTI. It clears up with ABs but as soon as we stop them they come back :( He has been put on an ultra long course, not ideal but as the UTI causes him to lose weight again I'd rather him be on ABs.

I have finished my studies (an MBA) and we have also moved. The house we lived in had a terraced garden which was gorgeous but completely impractical for our boy as he is now blind. Sadly the house we want to buy is a new build and not built yet so we are staying with my parents. They are lovely but it's a bit tight for space. However Blue loves having all the attention so I worry he'll miss them when we move out.

We go back to Liverpool on Friday to discuss Blue's progress, do a case review and try to find a solution to his lack of weight.

In general he's still strong, he's very happy and appears unconcerned by his ill health. He is even guarding the Christmas presents around the tree despite him not being able to see them :cool:

pgcor

12-05-2010, 05:48 AM

Hi Lou - I was reading over your past posts and was wondering about long-term antibiotic use. We have run into all sorts of issues with our Pip and finally found an antibiotic called Tylan, which he gets everyday.

Maybe it would be a good question to ask your Vet? I was glad to read that Blue is doing better. It took me almost 1/2 year to get my dog to gain weight. After 3 years, he's now at his optimum weight. So you hang in there!

CarolW

12-05-2010, 06:13 AM

Oh, Lou!

Great to see you back, and to have your very auspicious report!

Pam (pgcor) mentioned Tylosin - well, my vet put my Kwali (ndd) on Tylosin for long-term treatment with antibiotics - said she could have it forever.

This page doesn't say much about it, except that it could be useful for someone giving Tylosin to a dog.

http://www.coherentdog.org/tylosin01.php

As for Kwali, she shows up here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/kwali.php

and, of course, in many other places on Coherent Dog.

Lou - I think you've done a FABULOUS job to bring Blue along to his 8th birthday! And so glad to read he's happy with his life. Yep; if he's guarding the Christmas presents, I'd say, he's in pretty good shape emotionally, and, to me, that's what counts!

Kwali didn't make it forever. Nor did Kumbi:

http://www.coherentdog.org/kumbi.php

HOWEVER, they helped me find Camellia, though it took over two months to do it.

http://www.coherentdog.org/dogselect.php

And, Camellia got filled in on the histories of the k9diabetes forum dogs - or, that is, she does whenever I'm reading here - she reads over my shoulder. So she joins me in wishing you and Blue well, and she says, may Blue have many more happy birthdays. Kwali and Kumbi join me in the good wishes.

(Please pardon my not-enough-coffee-yet disorganization!)

Sun, 5 Dec 2010 06:13:24 (PST)

k9diabetes

12-05-2010, 09:28 PM

:) Lou! What an absolute joy to hear from you and to learn that Blue is doing so well. Yes, I know, he's not "normal" but for him this is a HUGE accomplishment and I am thrilled. :)

And congratulations on finishing your MBA! You'll need it to pay for Blue... ;)

Natalie

loulou

12-23-2010, 12:45 PM

Blue's test results are in. Good news is non of the drugs he is on are doing anything other than what they would expect for a dog with his conditions so no nasty side effects are occurring that we can't see. His UTI is under control and it appears that his tummy is working okay at the moment too.

The plan. They are going to reduce his steroid which will hopefully help get his diabetes under better control. We'll reduce the dose for a few days and then do another curve in a weeks time.

Depending on the results of the curve we are expecting to increase his insulin again and have parameters under which we can decide to do this ourselves without consulting with the vet first but just letting them know. We then need to see if increasing his insulin helps his diabetes and report back into his consultant after the Christmas break. His consultant is hopeful that just by decreasing his steroid he'll start to put a bit more weight on, fingers crossed and Santa please take note!

Unfortunately his consultant hasn't been able to contact the dietician so no Christmas turkey dinner for Blue :0(. Although he said he would keep trying and fully supports me in my desire to be able to feed him 'real' food again.

buddingartist

12-23-2010, 02:10 PM

Congrats on the MBA, that is quite the achievement and good luck with Blue

Louise (nicknamed Loulou by family:D)

loulou

12-27-2010, 08:35 AM

We did a curve on Christmas eve and his glucose is still mostly off the scale :(

As advised by his consultant we increased his insulin by two units.

Patty

12-27-2010, 10:36 AM

Hoping it make a difference! :)

CarolW

12-27-2010, 05:10 PM

Lou,

Rooting for you and Blue. And watching. Couldn't post the last time you reported - wanted to indicate my support - time slipped past me!

I'll continue to watch and cheer you on - you do such a magnificent job with Blue! What a lucky dog he is to have you as his Human-Parent! Do please keep us posted!

Love and hugs,
Mon, 27 Dec 2010 17:09:29 (PST)

loulou

01-06-2011, 09:17 AM

Hi another quick update.

We did another curve on new years eve and it was off the scale again :( I spoke with his consultant this week and he's so pleased that reducing the prednisolone has had any negative effects he wants to try stopping all together :)

We always knew the steroid would intefer with his diabetes but due to the state of his tum we had no option. Now hopefully if his tum stays well we might even be able to get his diabetes under control. We are due to do another curve next weekend.

He has also been in touch with the canine dietician and once he's sent over a full history they should be able to develop a home made diet that better suits his diabetes.

We are currently in temporary accomodation with my parents whilst our house is being built, we've been here about 2 months. We have noticed that his elbows have become very red, they look sore but don't seem to bother him. We didn't have any carpets but mum does so we guess there's a link. Is this common in diabetic dogs? We put skin cream on but it rubs off, I'd like to be able to get pads for his elbows, has anyone ever seen such a thing?

Patty

01-06-2011, 11:16 AM

Hoping the changes make even more of a difference for Blue. I've not seen elbow pads but I'd bet you could make some. Do you sew or know someone who does?

Another thought is to take some kid's crew socks and cut off the foot end (as long as the top part isn't too tight on him restricting circulation) and pull it up to his elbow at night after putting some cream on the elbow. A thin layer of Bag Balm may help http://www.ehow.co.uk/about_5031250_bag-balm.html

Patty

BestBuddy

01-06-2011, 11:57 AM

Someone on k9cushings used the following

http://www.dogleggs.com/files/adjustable.cfm

A bit expensive but look like they would work.

Jenny

k9diabetes

01-06-2011, 12:24 PM

Hi Lou,

I wonder if the redness might be related to the steroids, which would make him a bit Cushinoid. Skin problems are very common with an excess of cortisol.

We have used Ace bandages - tan, springy cloth strips you fasten - to keep socks up. I would think you might be able to wrap his elbows.

But if the skin is irritable, it will also need to be kept as dry as possible.

He is such a miracle of survival...

Natalie

loulou

04-14-2011, 02:54 PM

Hi Everyone

Sorry it's taken so long to get in touch. We have been in the process of moving house and it's been a nightmare.

We are now finally settled after two temporary homes. We moved into our forever home last Monday, 04.04.11 which was also our 10th wedding anniversary

Blue is doing wonderfully well. So well in fact that I have to feed him his breakfast upstairs as he is too strong to handle on my own getting him downstairs when he wants his grub :eek:

He is now on half real food diet and half prescription. His real food involves cooking at the time of eating so it's simply not practical at 6am and 12 midnight. He gets real a food lunch and tea and loves it.

His glucose has still been very erratic but he's remained very well and his weight is stable although hes still thin he's between 29.2 and 29.5kg. His last curve was the best we'd seen in a very long time with a reading everytime, although still to high. We are doing a curve on him again at the weekend in the hope that having us humans stable will have a positive effect on his glucose.

He's very active and full of fun and mischief. Most people have no idea he's blind or ill when them meet him they just think he's an elderly gent.

I'll let you know how the curve goes at the weekend.

He's now on 2x23 units twice per day. Our syringes only go to 40 units and he needs 46. So bless him he has 4 injections per day and sometimes weekly curves and he is still as happy and cheerful as ever. We are so glad we fought for him :cool:

Edited to add he is now completely off the steroids and only has the lukerin twice in three days.

Patty

04-14-2011, 03:35 PM

You all have been through a lot. That's so fantastic to hear! Let us know how the curve goes ;)

CarolW

04-14-2011, 08:02 PM

Lou - thanks for reporting! I was thinking of you and Blue this past week, and wondering how Blue is doing - so your report is very timely for me!

I'd be tempted to call his wonderful recovery a miracle - and maybe partly, it is, but the WORK you have put into this is, I think, what has made the difference for Blue.

It's absolutely thrilling to read about how well Blue is doing!

I DETEST moving house; had to do it myself last autumn. Glad you should now be settled in a forever home! And happy 10th aniversary to you!

My Kwali (ndd) went to the Bridge (lymphoma) in November 2009, and Kumbi (dd) followed her, unexpectedly - died of cancer, not diabetes, 8 June 2010. I miss them a lot, a lot, a lot! But each managed to achieve a goodly age. What I found most especially difficult was that I don't survive well without a dog, and it took me more than two months to find another canine companion. I just had her settling when my landlord gave us notice to move out - SCARY! But we DID find another place - not as nice a yard, but it will do, and that's what matters. (lovely place otherwise, though!)

So, Kwali and Kumbi from the Bridge, and Camellia and I from lowly Earth, continue sending our good wishes to you and to Blue! Blue is truly an inspiration for anybody with a diabetic dog!

Thu, 14 Apr 2011 20:02:14 (PDT)