Help- New to Diabetes

[Chase14]

July 19th, Monday- I took my 14 yr old boo-boo to the Vet for excessive drinking and urinating. The Vet took Chase to a back room and I waited about 10 minutes before the Vet came back in the room to talk to me. He said I had a diabetic dog and I would need to leave Chase to come back at 4pm. I went back to the Vet at 4pm and the Vet told me Chase was dehydrated so they give him fluids and that he also had a UTI. He gave me a prescription for Cipro 250mg. He said Chase had a BG reading of 500 that morning at it was down to 257. He then showed me how to give Chase an injection and prescribed Humulin 15units, twice a day, to be given while Chase was eating. He also gave me a syringe to put Karo syrup in incase Chase started showing signs of low blood sugar. I had no idea what all this meant at the time but thankfully had found your website this evening.

- July 20th, Tuesday- Per the Vets instructions, Tuesday morning at 7:30am, I fed Chase his Proplan (canned chicken & potato entree). Chase only ate about 3/4 cup. I gave him the 15 units of the Humulin and within 5-10 minutes, he started shivering, not convulsing just slight shivers. He was extremely lethargic and I got nervous and gave him the Karo syrup on the gums. Within a few minutes, the shivering stopped. I called the Vet and he told me to bring Chase in at 5pm. Chase looked very sickly until 1pm in the afternoon. At 5pm, the Vet took a BG reading and it was 108. He laughed and said "so now what do you want to do?" I said, I don't know, you are the doctor, you tell me". He said, "ok, well, lets give him one shot a day of 12 units. I took Chase home, at 7:30pm, fed him brown rice, chicken and green beans (read online the home cooked food may be better).

- Wed, July 21st- I fed Chase at 7:30am and gave him his injection of the new dose at 12units. Chase again, looked very sickly and was lethargic until early afternoon. He did not get the shivers. Late in the afternoon, I called the Vet and told him Chase was still very lethargic and looking sickly. He told me to bring him in the next morning, to feed Chase and give him his injection.

- Thursday, July 22nd- Chase gets up easy this day, eats at 7:30am and I give him his injection at 7:40am. Chase is now acting like a puppy. Eyes look good and alert, not like he is intoxicated like over the past few days. I am hopeful and get him in the car to take him to the vet. The Vet takes his BG at 8:10am and the reading is 300. The Vet instructs me to bring him back at 5pm. Per the Vets instructions, I take him back at 5pm and Chase's reading is 191. I ask the vet at this time, if Chase's reading earlier in the day could be high because he is anxious. He laughed and said "only humans get anxious when going to the vet" He said "dogs don't get anxious". I am very concerned at this point because I have been reading your forum each night this week. I know at this point, the dosage should start low and then increased. I know dogs get anxious during vet visits. When Chase had to stay the whole day on Monday, he chewed thru his harness which was not an easy task given he is missing quite a few teeth. The icing on the cake with my lack of confidence with this vet is that I asked him if Chase could take the Novolin (generic Humulin). He said he did not know there was a generic. I also asked him if I should test at home. He was very opposed to this and said it would be cruel to test a dogs lip, he never heard of such of thing. I have read how much you all love your babies and know, you would not recommend this testing site if it hurt them. I am really scared at this point, wondering if I have given him too much insulin all week.

- Thursday EVENING, I decide to go get a BG testing device. I got the OneTouch Ulta 2 and was able to obtain a reading at 10pm. The reading was 350.

-Friday, July 23rd- Chase woke up not feeling good at all this am and refused to eat. he also, wet all over my bed. When I let him go outside, he urinated A LOT and drank excessive water (about 3 cups, I am measuring water too). I am anxious because I know I need to give him his insulin. Chase does not look like he feels good and keeps fidgeting- sitting and then re sitting. At 9:30am, I finally put the brown rice, green bean and chicken mixture in his mouth and he begrudgingly chews and swallows. I got him to eat about 3/4 of cup. I give him an injection but only 7units. I tried really hard to get a BG check but he would not let me. I got one sample but it was not enough blood. Because he does not feel good, I will try later. I am going to try the twice a day Humulin at the 7 units. I was able to get a reading on his BG two hours after he ate and had his injection. The reading is 284 at 12pm. He has been sleeping since this morning.

Any advice, I know I need to find a more experienced vet but I want to do my research this time and find someone good to spare Chase unnecessary anxiety. He is old at 14yrs and has major anxiety when I leave him.

Breed- Terrier/Schnauzer Mix (he is about the size of a Cocker Spaniel)
Weighs- 33lbs
Diet- Brown rice, chicken, greenbeans, very small amount of chicken broth (low sodium)
Diagnosed July 19th
Humulin started at 15units x 2 a day, then 12 units once a day, now-trying 7 units twice a day

Sincerely,
Natalie

[CarolW]

Chase is a lucky dog; he has a real Natalie who REALLY watches over him and does her homework.

I do hope you can find a more sympathetic vet - one who actually communicates; there is just nothing like it, when you find a good vet teammate. Seems your current vet lacks at least some knowledge of dog behavior, or perhaps just wanted to reassure you or something, but that doesn't reassure Chase.

Good job on your choice of meter, and good job learning to test! That is just fabulous!

7 units divided by 33 pounds is about .21 units per pound, which should be a good starting dose for insulin given twice a day, 12 hours apart, after the dog eats (or while the dog eats; I prefer after for a newly diagnosed diabetic in case the dog loses the meal).

I ended up, myself, always waiting 30 minutes after Kumbi ate, and that worked out fine for us.

That start of 15 units twice a day seems far too high, and I believe Chase indicated that; you did right to get Karo into him right away.

Novolin isn't a generic; there is no generic insulin; it's a different brand from Humulin, though it's very similar. It seems most dogs could change to Novolin-N from Humulin-N easily enough. If you're thiking of price, Walmart is about to change from selling Novolin-N as "ReliOn Novolin-N" to selling Humulin-N as "ReliOn Humulin-N" - each of those at a reduced price - but the Novolin-N would now cost more - no special price on it. I think the target date for the change is September. Others can tell you more about that than I can.

Personally, I think you're doing a super-good job, and you have my heartiest congratulations!

I'll be watching for your further reports, and cheering you on. Ask any questions that occur to you, and, as you can see from reading the forum, somebody will surely jump in to offer a helping hand.

Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:18:46 (PDT)

[Chase14]

Hello Carol W! I was so thankful and relieved to see a reply to my note. I have been on edge all day from taking matters into my own unknowledgable hands!! My intuition just told me something was very wrong this week. When Chase had the 300 reading at the Vets yesterday morning, he said we would have to give him two shots a day. When I took him back for his 5pm reading which was 191, I asked the vet about the two shots a day, he said "he has a reading of 191, he does not need two shots a day". He said we may could do a certain test, and then he put his head down and kept trying to think of the test and I said "a curve" and he said "yes, that is it, a curve". I was thinking myself, this is not good... The vet is an ederly gentleman, very sweet but my gut is telling me, he may not have solid experience for treating the diabetes.

Interesting, the one good reading he had at 108 was when the injections were given 12 hrs apart although clearly, the dosage was probably too high since Chase got those shivers.

I would be terribly lost if it were not for this forum. I have been reading up to midnight every night this week. Do you know anything about the bladder leakage? Chase leaked A LOT last night. I am also worried about Chase's age, does it matter what age they are when they are diagnosed? Poor Chase has slight cataracts, fatty lumps all over his belly, one in his neck and one in a leg. He cannot hear that good either :o(. I hope he is not too old to be regulated...Fortunately, I work from home and can observe him 24/7.

Again, thank you so much!! I really appreciated the information on the Novolin.

[CraigM]

Welcome to you and Chase!

I'm SOOO impressed that you are already trying to home test and actually got at least one reading. When I started testing Annie I had a terrible (for me, not so much for her) time. I occasionally still have to try twice to get a drop, but it has become almost automatic for us. Lots of great information on this web site on all topics of diabetes.

I agree with CarolW that 7iu X2 sounds like a good starting point for a 33 pound dog, especially since you are going to home test. You will probably have to increase the dose, but remember to increase slowly. We all want to get our "kids" to a good spot as soon as possible, but it's important to give each dose a few days to settle-in.

Another thing to keep in mind is that one or two readings / day probably isn't enough data. You said Chase was 284 at noon (+2 hours after food & shot). Again, since you are getting to be a testing expert :) , I would recommend another test at +4 and every two hours IF POSSIBLE. That is called a "curve" and you should see how low Chase actually goes.

Consistency is so important. Same amount of food and insulin at the same times each day (12 hours apart). Most doggie snacks can wreck a curve, so try to withhold. Some of us use broccoli, cauliflower or green beans as snacks!

I'll be watching your posts and good luck.

[diggydog]

Hi Natalie & Chase,

Just a real quick note as I am doing a curve today and dont have much time for a long reply before I need to test Alfie again but Alfie can sometimes have a bladder leakage when his blood sugar is on the high side. He doesn't do this when he sugar is in a normal range so it may be something to to with that.

I know this is all a lot to take in but I do think another vet is your best option as it really sounds like he his just not all that clued up on diabetes.

I dont think a dog is ever too old to have treatment and get regulated. Reading up on all the information on here was a total godsend for Alfie and I.

Allison, Alfie & Skye

[Chase14]

Craig and little Annie, thank you so much.

Per your suggestion, I just tried to test Chase. Unfortunately, I screwed up again! I think I hurt him because he yelped. I am doing the lip testing. The test said an Error 4 which means I did not get the blood on the strip right or there was something wrong with the test strip. This is really frustrating. I was trying to hold off on the curve until Chase got use to me testing and more importantly, until I got better at it. Do you think it is ok to watch his behavior as a monitoring system until I can test better? Since he yelped this time, I feel terrible... Maybe I should give the tail a try? Do you know if the nerve endings are sensative on the tail? How do you test Annie?

warm regards,
natalie

[Chase14]

Hi Allison, Alfie & Skye, thank you for the reply although you were so busy doing your curve. I hope to do this with Chase once I become better at testing. Can you tell me how you are testing? I am nervous testing Chase on the lip and not very good at. He yelped at me a few minutes ago after I stuck him. I think I hurt him this time. How do you test your baby? For some reason, I keep getting error reads, not enough blood, blood is not on the strip right or the strip is bad... I am thinking about doing the tail to see if we have more luck? Any suggestions? If you have a chance, tomorrow is fine to answer.

[CraigM]

I think I'm one of the few that test on the ear. Annie, being small, and my thick fingers don't do the lip :).

If you only gave 7iu this morning you are probably safe from hypoglycemia, but testing results = knowledge. You really can't increase the dose until you know what Chase's lowest number is. I see what you are saying and a curve could be held off until you are on this, 7iu, dose for a few days.

[Ladybug]

Hi Natalie,

It took me a little over a month to get the testing right with Ladybug...and I do the lip. I got a lot of error readings in the beginning and I know I also wasted 50 or more strips the first week trying to get it right!

There are no nerve endings in the lip area, unless you are getting too close to the gums. Once you roll the lip back, it should be the outer edge. But hey, you've done it already and you'll do it again!! Don't give up! I wouldn't concentrate too much on a curve right now - if you can test 3 times a day for a few days to start (until you're comfy with testing), I think you'll be fine. Then jump into a full-blown curve!! :)

If you tense up when it's time to test, Chase can sense it and reacts appropriately - danger, danger!!! :D Don't hold your breath, breathe naturally! You may not realize it, but at this early stage of learning to test, you are holding you breath! I know I did!

Sing a song, talk to him about anything, he won't care! Just have a relaxed tone to your voice. But, don't use any "key" words that he knows that would get him excited. Also reward him after the "lipstick" with a treat - I use a green bean, piece of cooked broccoli or a piece of cucumber. That way, if he knows he gets a treat, he'll be more receptive.

You'll get the hang of it! In no time you'll be saying "hey, it's a piece of cake"! :D

Linda'Ladybug :)

[Chase14]

Linda, thank you very much for the encouragement, I have read a lot of your post this past week. The testing is really frustrating, especially since I know Chase is not having a good day. I will keep trying until I get it right though but want to give Chase a little break. He has been running on the high side but has not drank water excessively since this morning, his last reading at noon was 284. Do you know if the readings we get from the human meters is good with the human strips? In other words, when I am fortunate enough to get a reading, can I trust the reading is somewhat accurate?

warm regards,
natalie

[diggydog]

Hi Natalie,

I do Alfie's lip, we have only been testing for a couple of months as vets here in scotland dont really get us to home test. I could see the benefits of it as soon as I joined here.

I always test Alfie when he is lying down on his side in his bed - to start with as it was a totally new experience for us both he was not all that pleased with me doing it but I found talking to him through it and keeping him calm (it helped me stay calm as well) done the trick for us. I tend to test on his lip sort or opposite his canine tooth which is where he gives me the biggest drop of blood. Alfie gets a small bit of boiled chicken after it even if I dont get enough blood to get a reading. Its worth just trying it without the strips and meter until ur pretty good at getting a reasonable drop of blood - saves wasting strips and gets you both a bit more used to it.

Alfie doesn't really like having his tail touch so I have avoided trying him there and his ears have never given up a drop of blood big enough to test for us but every dog is different and finding out what works for you both is a bit of trial and error. I also tried Alfie's dew pads but got nowhere with them either.

Until you manage with the blood testing you can always try the urine strips to get an idea of his numbers as if he is higher than 180 it is said that it will show up in his urine. Now I cant say what they are called as I dont use them but I know that others on here do so I will have a look and try to find out but its something to consider while you both settle into the blood testing.

I have a feeling there is something more I wanted to add but my mind has gone totally blank so I will leave it for now and post again once I remember.

My best advice is big deep breaths and know that your doing this for him and not too him as some 1 wise on here said to me.

Allison

[diggydog]

Your reading on a human meter will be slightly lower than with an animal meter.

[k9diabetes]

Hi Natalie! Welcome to you and Chase!

Sorry you have been on such a rollercoaster.

The starting dose the vet gave Chase was too high at almost half a unit per pound. A lot of dogs need a quarter of a unit per pound or less and one quarter of a unit per pound is the most I like to see them started on.

So a quarter unit per pound for a 33 pound dog is 8.25 units. So I think 7 units is a good place to go down to.

NPH basically never lasts more than 12-14 hours. So on one injection a day of 12 units his blood sugar was coming down and quite possibly going too low in the middle of the day. But then at night it was undoubtedly rising much higher without any insulin. Which is why he seemed more perky in the morning before getting too large of a dose of insulin.

The urine leakiing is probably an issue of his blood sugar and will stop once it is in a better range for the entire day. The UTI also can cause this... did the vet do a sensitivity test on the bacteria in the urine to make sure that the Cipro would take care of it?

If the Cipro is not the right antibiotic, then you could see more leaking until something properly clears the UTI.

A couple of ideas about lip testing...

If you look at my video of testing Chris on the lip at www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html (http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html) (it's a big file so takes time to download), you will see that I tested a little inside of the edge of the lip but quite a long way from the gums. I also found that the place that bled the best was from the canine tooth back an inch or two. Too far forward or too far backward and I ddn't get a good blood drop.

Also you might dial back the lancing device if you are using one.

Also, some of the lancing devices come with very fine lancets that don't do a good job of producing blood. We used the Accuchek Softclix lancing device and much preferred it to the ones that came with the meters.

Although Chris is lying on his stomach in the video, I actually had him lie on his side to test his blood sugar. It was too difficult to video it that way and I would test him in any position if need be, but I preferred to have him lie on his side so the lip was a horizontal surface. I'd dry it well with a bit of paper towel and then I put one finger on each side of the spot I was going to lance and pulled the spot a little bit taut. And then I applied a little bit of pressure with the lancing device.

Do not worry if your technique is not yet perfect. I was TERRIBLE at it at first - hilarious actually. I was nervous, Chris would fidget, the meter would time out... we had a LOT of failed tests at first. But we both got better at it and by the end I could fill three different meters with one drop of blood. It's a skill that takes practice.

Don't practice so much you frustrate either Chase or you.

Try it once or twice and then set it aside for later in the day or the next day. You want it to be stressfree for everyone.

You're doing a great job of taking over Chase's care and doing a wonderful job of it.

At this early stage, I wouldn't try to get him below 200. It takes time for the body to adjust. See if you can stay at 7 units twice a day for at least five days to give him time to give you a long term response to that dose.

The OneTouch Ultra is typically around 30-50 points lower than actual blood sugar but it varies from meter to meter and dog to dog. For now, it's not really an issue whether the blood sugar is 284 or 324. You want to focus on trends, not so much on individual numbers.

Natalie

[CraigM]

Although you asked Linda about the human meters, I'll give you my understanding.

It's recommended that you run a comparison test at your vet office, if possible. You test the way you normally test (lip?) and compare the results to how they test. I BELIEVE most people see their human meter / strips read about 30 - 50 points low at the low end and a greater difference near the high end. I personally don't care too much if the high number is 300 or actually 400 because they are both high.

[Chase14]

Natalie,
Thank you very much for your reply! As you can see, I was able to post :o)

I have no idea what the Vet did to test Chase's urine for the UTI. Is there a better antibiotic for him to be on rather than Cipro? His drinking excessively seems to be more in the mornings than at night so I think you are right on, he is going way down after the morning insulin and then up at night. I know there are some human urine strips to determine the white blood cell count for UTIs, think those would work on a little doggie? Just to make sure the Cipro is working...

I think we the BG testing, tomorrow morning I will try again but use the lancet myself instead of the lancet that came with the OneTouch Ulta2. I did see where you had recommended the SoftClix and I bought those but thought I would have to go back out and buy a lancet device that would fit the SoftClix lancets. The last time I tried to test, a lot of blood came out and that is when he yelped. I must have gone too far down. I will watch your video again. I did watch it twice before I started testing but that was yesterday. I have actually watched a bunch of different ones- ear, paw, tail and lip :o). Maybe it would be a good idea to watch the video and then test, just to give me more confidence. It does not take a long time for me to download, I have a wireless connection, maybe that helps.

Everyone has been truly wonderful this afternoon and evening, it is really amazing and incredible to meet other animal lovers and diabetic patients too!

Warm regards,
natalie e.

[Chase14]

Hi Craig, thank you for your feedback. I really appreciate it. I am trying to locate a vet in Charlotte that has some experience dealing with diabetes. I am not willing to take Chase to another vet that is not highly experienced in treating diabetes. I looked on and off all day on the computer and found just about every specialty other than Endocrinology!

About 11 years ago, I took Chase to a vet and he wanted to put Chase down. He said he had a hymacralitic (sp?) disease that was not curable. A Vet at an emergency clinic tested Chase by taking bone marrow and this Vet determined Chase had a folic acid disorder. I am trying to track down the Vet that saved Chase's life and see if he can recommend a Vet for me to take Chase to maintain the diabetes. He works in another county as an ER Vet so I have to catch him on the weekend. Once I get a good referral, I will get Chase back to the Vet asap and check my meter with whatever method they check.

[k9diabetes]

I especially hated the clicker that came with the OneTouch meter. Loved the meter, hated the clicker. The Softclix is SO MUCH better!

On my wimpy skin, I can draw blood with the Softclix set on 0.5. On Chris we used 3.5-4.5 I think.

Natalie

[diggydog]

I use the multiclix with Alfie, I get a good blood drop on the number 4 setting with him.

[Patty]

I have no idea what the Vet did to test Chase's urine for the UTI. Is there a better antibiotic for him to be on rather than Cipro? His drinking excessively seems to be more in the mornings than at night so I think you are right on, he is going way down after the morning insulin and then up at night. I know there are some human urine strips to determine the white blood cell count for UTIs, think those would work on a little doggie? Just to make sure the Cipro is working...

I'm a bit late to your thread but Welcome to you!

I'm impressed with how much you've learned in such a short time. So glad you followed your instincts and lowered Chase's dose.

With regard for the UTI, if the vet took urine and told you the same day that Chase had an infection then I'm guessing he did a urinalysis only and saw bacteria under the microscope.

I would recommend a culture and sensitivity be done on a urine sample. It is typically sent out to a lab to determine what type of bacteria is present and which antibiotic is most effective. This typically takes 3-4 days to get the results.

I know a few people who use the 10 parameter sticks to test for UTI on their dogs. Joan, another member here, has been able to catch infections in her dogs early on. With my dog Ali, they didn't always test positive even when she had an infection so they weren't as helpful for us.
These are the type of stips I've used: http://hocks.com/Merchant5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=Hocks&Product_Code=URS-10

Some of the parameters are not valid in dogs:
"Not all test parameters are valid in cats and dogs:

Glucose: no known limitations

Bilirubin: no known limitations

Ketones: no known limitations

Specific gravity: NOT RELIABLE

Blood: no known limitations

pH: no known limitations

Protein: no known limitations

Urobilinogen: NOT RELIABLE

Nitrite: NOT RELIABLE

Leucocytes: cat: NOT RELIABLE, gives false positives, dog: less sensitive

(From: Clinical Urine Analysis for the Veterinary Surgeon. Bayer Diagnostics Education Services)."

http://www.lvlabs.co.uk/pdf/library/DAVNUrinalysisLN.pdf Page 3


Hope that helps!

Patty

[peggy0]

I agree with Patty. additionally the culture will determine the type of bacteria so that the appropriate antibiotic can be administered.

[Chase14]

I am very happy to report after Chase having the insulin 7 units x2 a day, he did not wet last night or have leakage, his eyes are alert and overall disposition is good this morning. He went outside and it was not like Niagra Falls, just normal and when he came in, he drank a normal amount of water :o)

You guys saved my little boy!!

[CarolW]

Hi Chase's Natalie - to distinguish from Chris's and Jack's Natalie (haha!),

Ahem, ahem. It is NOT we here who saved Chase. It is YOU, with your diligence, your critical thinking, your exploration, and observations of Chase (and of your vet!) - who did the saving job.

I'm trusting the worst is past; you're on the road to Chase feeling a lot better. Hope the antibiotic for the UTI can be worked out okay. Above all, I hope you find a referral to a suitable vet in Charlotte. There is just nothing like having a great vet teammate when your dog is diabetic. I have a main vet, and her associates; they all work together as a team, so if one happens not to be available, I always accept one of the others, if my animal companion needs care.

In fact, the entire staff at the clinic I use is skilled, more than just competent, and always considerate of the animals, and very straight-forward in communications with us human clients. In short, the entire human element is on the team.

I hope you can find a clinic like that.

Chase should stay feeling quite a lot better, as his blood glucose levels come under better control. The UTI could leave him requiring a bit more insulin than he might need without the UTI - or the antibiotics could do the same. Only testing BGs (blood glucose levels) will clue you in.

My vets always take stress in animals into consideration, and that's something I do as well; my studies (self-directed) are in dog behavior. Near the end of Kumbi's life, I tested him an awful lot more than I'd done previously, trying to reduce evening spikes, but finally, my main vet and one of the associates suggested I back off, as the testing was becoming too stressful for him.

So I did.

Kumbi died very suddenly and unexpectedly of cancer - took us all by surprise; he'd spent the day before in the clinic being monitored, and had seemed very chipper there. But for his some 3.5 years as a diabetic, he did basically well, though his BGs were variable - the curves did have a fairly consistent shape. Also, his clinical signs matched his curves well, so if Kumbi started drinking lots more water, I knew what to expect on a spot-check - high glucose!

I'm an absent-minded sort of person, dyslexic with time, points of the compass, and numbers in general, so I use a computer-program to keep myself in line - doing so meant I didn't have to worry about what I should do when; everything was always on the Calendar (Calendarscope) - and because my computer is usually running all day and half the night, it would talk to me until I did the next required task and ticked (checked) it off.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/calendarscope.php

Too bad it's only for Windows; apparently doesn't work on Apple computers.

I mention all this because my vet told me, numbers of times, that the reason Kumbi did so well for so long was the consistency I had in his schedule. We WERE extremely consistent with:

- mealtimes and meal content - same food every meal, 12-hour intervals

- insulin times - doses generally determined by BG curves, and changed only occasionally; it was rare that I started chasing numbers (changing doses based on readings just taken) Most of the time, I'd take a curve, report to my vet, and she'd either suggest a change in dose (ALWAYS very small changes, so the dog can adapt), or say, hold it right there.

- walks - they varied according to weather, but I made every effort to get Kumbi his two walks a day, of moderate activity most of the time. Scheduling varied on those, with the weather, but we'd go once in the morning, and once in the afternoon, most days.

I guess when you have food, insulin and exercise all quite consistent, you have a way to determine TRENDS, as Chris's Natalie has mentioned, when you look at BG curve results. It's as though you have a kind of extra insight into your dog's physiology (combined, of course, with clinical signs).

Oddly, when I'd take Kumbi to town with me, people would comment on how great he looked. I had to agree; he looked great. (haha)

And actually, he did very well, too, most of his life, right up till the last few days.

Consistency, then, if EVER I have another diabetic dog, is something I'll aim at. Actually, I guess I'll aim at it for ANY dog, and it's easier for me to manage than it is for many people, because I'm long-retired, and always at home.

I have high hopes for you and Chase, largely because of your approach - attention to detail, and consistency in study. Wishing you and Chase special good luck in finding the right vet!

Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:06:46 (PDT)

[Chase14]

Wonderful, wonderful news to report- I took a blood sample from the lip without using the lancet device and only the lancet. I got a great blood sample and Chase's reading was 151, so if I add 30, 181. This is about 2.5 hrs after insulin and food. The testing with the lancet only was very easy on Chase and me too...Chase did not seem bothered at all! If I drank alcohol in the afternoon, I would have myself a Martini!

I will test again maybe two times today and then start preparing for the curve in the next day or two.

natalie & chase

[Patty]

That's wonderful!!!

You might try to test sometime around hour 6 post insulin. That is a typical peaking time for NPH insulin (lowest bg). Though we see all kinds of shapes of curves here.

Again, congrats!
Patty

[Chase14]

Patty, thank you! I can check again at the 6th hour interval just to see, it will be good to have an idea before I do the curve. May wait a few days to give him time to adjust to the insulin and dosage.

Thank you much for your support!

natalie & chase

[CarolW]

Your success with the lip-testing is marvelous! I REALLY like working without the device - it's a hands-on kind of control you get, along with a facility for very fine control of where and how you lance. And I truly love using the lip because it's EXTREMELY rare that it hurts a dog at all - you'd have to hit one of the very, very few nerve endings. I think I touched Kumbi's about twice, in years of testing.

I think what I'd do in your place, since Chase is new to diabetes and insulin - after a rough start! - is, perhaps do spot-checks daily, one about that six hours after injection, and maybe the next day, eight hours, and maybe the next, right before his supper.

Actually, though, how you time spot-checks would depend partly on how the last one went!

And one day and the next, you can ALWAYS expect to be different, as BGs do vary, often, by quite a lot, day-to-day.

Then to do a curve in about 5 days or a week (or earlier if it seems Chase is running too low or too high for comfort - only too LOW holds any real danger) - and see what happens!

There are people who test, religiously, at fasting in the morning, fasting in the evening, and somewhere around expected insulin-peak time (hi buddy Eileen!) With my vets' views on stress, and my own as well, and Kumbi's dislike of Procedures, I have gone as long as three months without one test! Kumbi was so consistent, he would show with clinical signs (usually, drinking more water than usual) when it was wise for me to spot-check; then maybe do a curve.

Can't remember if I've pointed you to this series of pages:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

I personally think that now you're over the difficult part of testing; having the experience of having it go that well doesn't mean you'll NEVER have trouble; I've had to prick even four times on a tough test, but it DOES mean you can expect to regain that ease, most of the time.

Cheering you and Chase on! WAY TO GO!

Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:36:59 (PDT)

[Chase14]

I did it, I did it, I did it!! Chase's 6 hr testing after insulin and food, the reading was 113 and if I had 30, it would be 143. Not bad at all... Oh my goodness, his whole disposition is so much better today :o)

I had to poke three times to get blood but he never flinched, he actually laid his head in my lap and let me do my poke. I would rather not poke hard enough than too hard. That lance device that came with the UltaTouch 2 meter is really awful and the clicking noise makes it all the worse.

Carol, I whole heartedly agree with you on the testing. I will take it slow. I work from home and observed Chase very closely this past week. When I took him to the vet each time his water and urine increased, the reading was 300+. Since Chase is not running overly high and not overly low, I think I can take my time with the curve, just give it another week. This will probably give me a better picture since the insulin given to Chase will have time to adjust with his sytem. I can always change my plans if he starts water intake.

I have overcome loosing the test strips! I understand now, the blood has to sort of run down from the top. I was mashing the strip up against the blood, sort of getting a smear instead of gently holding the strip up to the drop so it could flow downwards.

I am just so relieved Chase is having a better day. I understand tomorrow could be different but I am going to enjoy knowing he is better today.

Thanks to everyone for all the support, love and care extended!

natalie & chase

[CraigM]

OUTSTANDING!

Don't want to cause worry, but just want to mention again that Annie doesn't normally get to her lowest number until about +10 or +12 hours. Of course, every dog has its own agenda! :)

Again, great work on the testing.

[Ladybug]

WAHOO!! :D Big congratulations are in order!!!

I wished I could have done as well as you when I was first starting home testing!! But don't you agree now that it's "a piece of cake"!

Welcome to the "vampire club"!

Linda/Ladybug :)

[Patty]

So thrilled for you! You might get in the habit of testing fasting bgs (before food/insulin). My girl "wobbles" quite a bit so this is a lifesaver for us. Other dogs are very consistent. But these reading can tell you if your dose is on a downward trend and you may need to reduce insulin or staying level.

Again congrats!
Patty

[Noodle]

Belated welcome to you & Chase, not to mention CONGRATULATIONS! :D

You are already so far ahead of the the game than many are in the beginning. Kudos to you for jumping right in to research, trusting your instincts, and diving in with testing. BG testing at home is so invaluable, as you're finding. Those are already some beautiful numbers you're getting, so hopefully Chase is going to be speedy to regulate. :)

My dog Noodle tends to have his lowest numbers closer to meal time. So like others have mentioned, you may want do some BG tests immediately prior to meals/injections and (for a bit), a spot check or two (or 3, lol) as you get closer to meal time until you see how Chase's numbers trend. Once this dose has a few days to settle in, then his first curve should give you a good picture of how his body interacts with the food/insulin.

So thrilled how well he is doing! Congrats again! :D

[Chase14]

Thank you CraigM, Ladybug, Patty and Noodle! Per your suggestions, I took a BG reading this am before Chase's insulin and food. The read was 294 and if I add 30, that puts it up to 324, possibly higher. This appears to be his trend although probably too early to call it a trend... He is high by the time the 12 hr mark comes around and after insulin on the second and sixth hour, the two readings were in the upper 100's.

This was the smoothest test I have taken with the lancet, only one prick. I am much calmer now with the testing although Chase is still a little uncooperative. My poor little boy, he is so old and now has to deal with diabetes. I know you all can relate in feeling bad for our little ones.

I have two kitty cats as well, they know Chase is not feeling good. Heidi girl came up and cleaned Chase's ear for him and... he let her. Felix boy, rubbed up against Chase twice. I put their pictures up on my profile :)

fondly,
natalie & chase

[ladysmom06]

Hi Natalie and Chase,

Belated welcome to the two of you. Congratulations on the home testing. I am so impressed how quickly you started this. It took me months to home test my Lady. Never thought I coud do it but it gave me such peace of mind. Lady also had cushing's so I really needed to keep an eye on her bg's once she started the cushing's meds. You are doing an awesome job :D:D with Chase. Congratulations again :):):). Hugs to the two of you.

[Patty]

Natalie,
Your pictures are so sweet! If you go to User CP, you can upload Chase's picture as your avatar.
Patty

[Chase14]

Hi Patty,
Thanks for the help on the CP section, I am testing to see if I got it right!

[CraigM]

Such a sweet photo!

[Chase14]

Lynn, thank you so much for the support. I worked in a hospital when I was younger and more recently volunteered at a children's hospital in Charlotte, NC. I am ok with needles, etc. I often watch the tech drawing my own blood during annual physicals and always amazed it does not hurt more...

I was plenty scared earlier this week, even had quite a few heart palpatations. I really hope my little boy starts feeling better soon. I read Lady's story, she was beyond prescious :o)

hugs right back at you...

[Chase14]

My little man had a tough day today, high numbers. Yesterday was such a good day...I got scared and fed him 30 min early this evening and the insulin shot 15 minutes earlier. I am trying to stay up a little while longer and take another test. I found a paw pad on this left leg that I can prick easily. I have been testing him this way and having a lot of success. I can alternate between the lip and paw. He does not flinch with either prick site/

12:15am- 380-coming down a little bit...
09:15- Gave Chase 7 units
08:15- not testing, but fed Chase-- Brown Rice and Chicken breast, half and half
8:02pm- 455
6:17pm- 389
5::34pm-404
3:24pm-286 6hr mark
8:47am- 341 prior to insulin and food

[peggy0]

Welcome to the board. Glad the home testing is working out so well for you. Looks like more insulin is in order, but I've seen worse numbers than these. How long has he been at 7?

[Chase14]

Chase was high again this morning at 510 prior to insulin and food. I gave him 9 units and at noon his reading was 293 (2.5 hrs after food and insulin). I found a vet who specializes in geratics and diabetes. Going to see her at 3:30 this afternoon. Although Chase's numbers were high, he did not increase water intake or urine output, it was strange... I am wondering if the UTI has worsened since we do not know if he is on the correct antibotics.

[peggy0]

My dog never wanted more water when his BG levels were high. The only way I knew was his eyes got very red. Some dogs urinate more when their levels are off just a bit. Each one is different so you have to pay attention . I use to keep a log at the beginning writing down what made him go high, low, how he reacted to highs and lows. The only indication that I had that he was low, was him barking at me from the kitchen begging for a treat :) Hope your vet visit goes well.

[Chase14]

I took Chase to a wonderful vet this afternoon. She said his numbers are not too terribly bad. She wants him to take 9 units x2 a day. For the urinalysis, she said we have to wait until he is done with the Cipro, then I have to take another sample in on Friday for the urine culture. His original sample had just a little bit of bacteria. All his other lab work looked really good.

She is very supporative with home testing and said I could do my own curves. When she was in veternarian school, she had a lab with diabetes and she took his readings all the time! We are going to compare meters next week when Chase has had time to adjust to the insulin.

She only charged me $39, I can't believe it!

Will keep you guys posted!

[peggy0]

Fabulous news!!!! What a relief to find a partner in treating chase Natalie. I'm so happy you found her and that she agrees with home testing. A little peace of mind surely helps us all out with this disease. Heres to more good news!!!

[diggydog]

Natalie,

Well done on getting the home testing - I knew you would get into it with a little practice.

I think finding the new vet is going to do wonders for Chase and you done the right thing by finding a specialist

Hugs to you and your fur baby xx

[Patty]

Great news Natalie!

[Noodle]

A vet who is a big supporter of home testing is a fantastic find! That's a big hurdle - congratulations! :D