Kumbi died uexpectedly June 8 2010

[Dollydog]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Hi Carol and welcome,
You have 2 Aussie's!!!

I read your thread last week and checked out your website. Not sure I'll ever be able to read all the stuff there but enjoyed reading about your dogs. I have a black and tan Aussie and her picture and story are on the caninecushings.net site. Haven't posted her story or picture here yet but should get around to that after the cold weather arrives and the election is over on Oct. 14th.
My Lady would have been returned to her breeder at a young age if she had come to a different household. She turned 12 on July 2nd and was born in British Columbia, arriving at our house on August 31/96. She's my buddy, my soul doggie, dog of my heart and my life! But she's dog aggressive and has been almost suicidal in her protection of me. She's also the toughest little soul I have ever met. I could go on but I won't....
Off to bed now but will read more on your website,
Jo-Ann & Lady

[CarolW]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Hi Jo Ann,

How great to hear from you! I was over reading on the Cushings forum, as a guest, since I don't have a Cushings dog, and I already have too much to do, but I wanted to get filled in on Marianne and Pebbles. I saw Lady's picture there! and NOTICED it! Said to myself, I know her (you); I've seen your posts here on k9diabetes!

About my web site, yes, it's BIG! A total ton of stuff there. I have a big fat mouth!

So many people, when they say "Aussies," mean Australian Shepherds, that I usually say "Australian Terriers," when talking about my dogs. Actually, I had others before Kwali and Kumbi - all except the very first, from the same breeder.

Which breeder is Lady from? Kwali and Kumbi aren't related; they are completely different lines; they're from Karen and Bill Sargent, Kayaust kennels. Both dogs were given to me; Kwali had been returned by a clueless family, and Kumbi, the breeder just hadn't been able to place satisfactorily.

I do love, love these Australian Terriers; they are so spunky!

Looking forward to hearing more from you, Jo Ann. Thanks for the welcome! I'm so impressed with the k9diabetes forums and site that I've now put them on my new links page, and also in the main navigation area down the right sides of the main pages.

Looking forward to all exchanges with k9diabetes people!

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:02:16

[Dollydog]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Hi again,
I never refer to Australian Terriers as Aussies with anyone other than people who are talking about terriers!! As soon as I say Australian Terrier to non-terrier people they think about Australian Shepherds or the cattle dogs.

Lady came from Graasands(?) Kennel in Cobble Hill, BC, close to Victoria. I saw the Kayaust kennel in my Dogs in Canada Annual. Lady's dad came from Rose Parker's kennel but died shortly after she was born. She has his personality but her mother's looks!! I can't get at the details right now but will PM them to you later.

I actually fit into the clueless owner category but have learned so much since Lady came into my life. And she's still alive after all this time!! I'd have another one in a heartbeat but don't think my husband could handle it!!! If we ever had another Aussie it would have to get along with everyone and be the most easy-going dog on the planet!
Take care and talk soon,
Jo-Ann & Lady

[ladysmom06]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Hi Carol,

Just wanted to welcome you, Kwali, and Kimbi to the board. When I get a chance I will check out your site - things have been a little crazy here ( at my house not the board) - don't get to spend as much time on the board as I would like. Hugs to you and the gang.

Luv,
Lynne and Lady

[CarolW]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Hi Lynne and Lady,

Thanks so much for the welcome! Everyone here is SO friendly! I see Lady has quite a few problems; ouch! I did some reading on the Cushings board. I admire you people who manage both Cushings and diabetes. Wish you the very, very best of luck!

It takes a lot of dedication - but oh, my; the payoffs are wonderful, if you get this stuff under control! Your dedication is gorgeous!

Sat, 4 Oct 2008 20:15:11

[CarolW]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Here are Kumbi's readings again, from yesterday and today; this time, my topic is not the comparison between the OneTouch Ultra meters and the GlucoPet, but the dog! Oh, my beloved Kumbi!

Background information on Kumbi: he will be 12 years old on 19 November this year. He was diagnosed short of his 10th birthday, 1 September, 2006 (diabetes, yes [grin]). It took us over a year to get him quite stably regulated; my vet told me that's common, not to worry. We started from scratch with Novolin NPH insulin. My vet gradually raised the dose - very gradually, based, of course, on clinical signs, general evaluation, and BG curve tests. AFter the first few BG curve tests, done in the vet's office, I decided to do them at home, because Kumbi stressed so badly in the office. THAT was a good decision! Kumbi hates Procedures but he's very cooperative.

All this year, he's been very stable. His most recent official dose has been steady since spring this year: 6.5 units of Novolin NPH insulin. (But I nudged it up sometimes after the last BG curve on 19 August- up to 6.75 units.)

I feed Medi-Cal Fibre Formula prescription vet diet. Kumbi gets 1 cup of dry, and about 4 grams of canned, for each meal, 12 hours apart. He gets his insulin shot 30 minutes later. I am very consistent about this - same food, same amount of food, each day, each meal. I'm retired, always at home; that helps! He weighs about 19.5 pounds (8.8 Kg). That seems just right for him; my vet is happy with it.

I feed at 6:30 a.m. and p.m., and shoot at 7:00!

I do feed tiny bits of treat, which can be a few soaked kibbles of the dry food (usually, three, after walks, which we do twice a day, usually 30 to 40-minute strolls - lots of sniffing and explorng - very relaxed. Sometimes we have some excitement on walks - meeting people or dogs).

I also sometimes give small bits of steamed broccoli, tiny bits of boiled white potato, little pieces of fresh strawberry, or a blueberry or two, in season - that sort of treat. I put the fruit on top of his kibble for breakfast. I use bits of it at "eyedrop time," which is really Kwali's time; she needs gentle lubrication, as she couldn't blink after a mild stroke. She can blink now, having mostly recovered from the stroke, but I do the eyedrops anyway.. Then I started doing Kumbi's, too, as he had an inflamed conjunctiva for a bit - vet trip resulted - I think he had a bit of grass in his eye that time -no scratches on the cornea. But he can certainly use the eye-wash, small as it is, so it's a good habit. I use Natural Tears, as my vet directed. It's a very innocuous substance. Kumbi is tolerating this Procedure very well; loves his treat afterwards. (He's almost, but not quite, completely blind - sees light and dark, has vestiges of peripheral vision.)

So, first, the readings; then the commentary. All these readings are afternoon. Kumbi's typical nadir can be any time between 2 and 6 p.m.

He's been running slightly high on most of his curve tests. After the previous BG curve, 19 August, which ran a bit high, but had a lowish nadir, I discussed the possibility of tweaking the 6.5 units up to 6.75. I use the 3/10 cc BD syringes, with half-unit markers, 31-gauge needles. This is very comfortable for us.

My vet said I could try tweaking a bit, but didn't think it was necessary. I did nudge up his dose a bit, to that 6.75 units - but I wasn't TESTING! The following readings are the first since the last BG curve (19 August this year).

Friday 3 Oct 2008: OneTouch UltraMini, GlucoPet

16:27 - 5.9 mmol/L = 106 mg/dL - OneTouch UltraMini
16:28 - 6.0 mmol/L = 108 mg/dL - GlucoPet

18:01 - 8.4 mmol/L = 151 mg/dL - UltraMini
18:02 - 8.8 mmol/L = 159 mg/dL - GlucoPet

Saturday 4 Oct 2008

11:31 - 12.4 mmol/L = 223 mg/dL - OneTouch Ultra2
11:31 - 12.7 mmol/L = 229 mg/dL - GlucoPet

14:01 - 10.6 mmol/L = 191 mg/dL - OneTouch Ultra2
14:02 - 8.1 mmol/L = 146 mg/dL - GlucoPet

16:09 - 5.5 mmol/L = 99 mg/dL - Ultra2
16:10 - 6.2 mmol/L = 112 mg/dL - GlucoPet

17:56 - 7.4 mmol/L = 133 mg/dL - Ultra2

My comments:

Yesterday's 5.9 / 6.0 scared me a bit; I didn't know if Kumbi might have been lower before those readings. Doing the second spot check (pair of readings) reassured me that his BGs were on the way up, rather than down, before his supper.

But then I wanted to know if maybe he might have been lower, so I wanted to test today, from about 2 p.m..

Today's readings were even scaier; although it does seem Kumbi's nadir is around the range of 4 p.m., which is fine.

But I decided to cut his dose back to 6.5 units exactly. So, I did that, this evening, and will stay there for some time, unless I see clinical signs of some sort that suggest testing again, and maybe a slight dose adjustment - up or down.

I like to leave just a little leeway, in case of unusual exertion, or anything else that might lead to a hypo. Kumbi has never had a hypo, and I never want him to have one! The closest he ever came was the evening of 8 June, 2007, when he delivered readings of 3.8 mmol/L (68 mg/dL) and a minute later, 3.9 mmol/L (70 mg/dL) (OneTouch Ultra meter), just before his suppertime. at that time. I cut his dose from its then 4.5 units of Novolin NPH insulin to 4.25 units, and I phoned my vet, who returned my call in the morning, and said, good; leave it there. Later, we increased his dose gradually again, till it reached its current official level of 6.5 units of Novolin.

Sat, 4 Oct 2008 20:57:09

[CarolW]

Re: Kumbi BG curve, Tues 11 Nov 2008

I did Kumbi's BG curve test today. I'm using a OneTouch Ultra2 meter - a really great meter. But also, I'm testing a GlucoPet meter, and I tried to do a second reading, each time I pricked for a blood sample. I had trouble getting enough blood for that second test. Poor Kumbi; he was SO good!

I won't report the GlucoPet readings I DID get, in this post, but might post later to compare its results with the Ultra2. My impression was that when I got the blood sample right, the GlucoPet and the OneTouch readings were close enough so the differences were insignificant.

I'm pie-eyed with fatigue - guess I got 5 hours of sleep last night, and no nap today, what with the BG-testing - I'm too old for this; ha! Need my naps, when I have short nights!

This is the report I just sent to my vet.

Kumbi Blood Glucose levels, Tuesday, 11 November 2008

Kumbi weighed about 20 pounds, 10:30 a.m. Monday, 10 November 2008
Weather - cool (10 C = 50 F), drizzle, showers

Current insulin dose: 6.5 units of Novolin NPH insulin, twice daily
at 07:00 and 19:00 (30 minutes after meals)

Meals: 1 cup of MFF dry, 4 g of MFF canned, 06:30 and 18:30
Treats after insulin: 2 g of MFF canned

[MFF is Medi-Cal Fibre Formula.]

Meter: OneTouch Ultra2

READINGS AND EVENTS

05:36 - 13.8 mmol/L = 249 mg/dL
Breakfast, 06:30 - 1 cup MFF dry, 4 g MFF canned
07:01 - 13.7 mmol/L = 247 mg/dL
Insulin at 07:04 - 6.5 units Novolin NPH (long-term stable dose)
WALK - an hour early (rain threatening) 08:00-08:26 - low excitement
09:00 - 14.1 mmol/L = 254 mg/dL
11:02 - 17.2 mmol/L = 310 mg/dL
13:01 - 16.2 mmol/L = 292 mg/dL
Walk, 13:43 - 14:15 approx (32 min) low excitement
Kumbi active between about 14:30 and 14:50
Brief visit with Ed, barking at stuff (Sentry duty)
15:03 - 11.8 mmol/L = 213 mg/dL
17:02 - 9.6 mmol/L = 173 mg/dL
18:20 - 10.1 mmol/L = 182 mg/dL
END SERIES of tests
Supper 18:34

My comments: Kumbi stresses a fair bit at testing, tries to escape, but cooperates at test-time.

In the last five days or so, we've had less walking than usual, quite a bit less, as it's been raining a lot. Last spot-checks, 3-4 October, showed low numbers (right on the edge!) in the late afternoon, before Kumbi's supper.

I'd guess his BGs are running a bit higher now, with less exercise.

Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:42:13 (PST)

[eyelostit]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Your doing a great job with Kumbi the decreased exercise would make a difference.

I find with Niki she ain't happy goin below 150, today we had a 142 fast am and a 165 pm fast. I better note it on Niki's post.

I liked your website, when did you start it?

[CarolW]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Hi Dolly,

Sorry I seem to have missed your reply - gosh - about a week ago now! Thanks for thinking I'm doing well; actually, I attribute that to Kumbi himself, as he keeps me well-informed!

Kumbi, diagnosed on 1 September 2006, is 12 years old today. He remains in glowing good health; his blindness hasn't changed for the last couple of years, so I'm hoping he'll retain the small amount of vision he still has - some peripheral vision; he seems to see light, dark, and motion.

Can't see right in front of his nose - yet he seems to see when I pick up the bottle of eye drops, which I give both to Kwali and to him! Kumbi doesn't care for the eye drops, yet they don't really bother him; it's just that it's a Procedure, which makes it automatically suspect. He does like the treat afterwards, though (a lick of his canned food).

We've picked up the exercise a bit, with less rain, the last few days. Kumbi continues to feel good, and Stroke-Dog Kwali does, too, at age 13.5, so I'm happy for now!

I picked up your news on Niki; hope she continues in better form now! (hehe)

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:48:34 (PST)

[rhodesian46]

Re: Kwali (ndd), Kumbi (dd) and me (Carol, ndh)

Carol,
You are doing a great job with Kumbi and Kwali too. I can tell that you love them !!!! I also appreciate that you have read all of Pebbles posts on the Cushings forum. She was a special girl and is missed terribly. It is very strange to have 5 dogs as I count them going outside and were used to counting six. Jasmine her sister is doing well Lots of attention from me I am so glad I kept them as I birth 7 puppies. AM looking forward to reading more from you

[CarolW]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

Okay so we had a major setback today...

It took me a HALF HOUR to inject her. She became so unbelievably squirmy that I couldn't hold on to her skin more than a second.
Suggestions? I know I'm still in the early stages but I just can't help feel that she is NEVER going to get used to getting injected or that it will ever become EASIER.

Oh, dear Ladygirl! I just sent two photos to Natalie; hope she can post them for you.

They are of Anna, another MinPin; she belongs to Phyllis, who has given me permission to use the two photos if they can possibly help anybody out.

What they show is how to confine the dog in arms. Obviously, you need two people for this; one to confine the dog; the other to inject.

If you don't have two people, you will need a different approach ANYWAY.

From all you say, it is VERY clear that Princess is simply terrified This means, she cannot pay attention to ANYTHING AT ALL that might make ANY SENSE at all. All she can do is struggle and try to get away, and that, of course, is what you're getting!

I hope you can plan to take an hour's time for your next few injections.

First, prepare the syringe; if you can, do it out of Princess's sight; just keep the filled syringe where you can reach it.

Then sit down with a few treats - well, QUITE a few. Remember this is a temporary situation. If you can smear some very tasty stuff on a saucer - say, cottage-cheese, or even a very thin layer of (safe) peanut butter, or cream cheese if need be, on a saucer, and hold it for her, great. Let her lick it. She won't get much FOOD that way, but it will taste good.

Or I use a tiny bit of my dogs' canned food (suitable for diabetics); put a bit on my finger, and let the dog lick it off. Or smear it on a saucer, or even on a vertical surface -the fridge door, for instance.

Plan NOT to hold onto Princess, till the very last instant. You WILL have to hold onto her skin or body in some small way, to be able to inject. If you can lift up a bit of her skin on the scruff (top of the neck); I would risk using that less-than-great location for injections just for a few days, till Princess learns injections are no big deal after all.

What you need to do is to take the terror out of the whole thing, which is why you cannot afford to go on trying to confine her when she is terrified.

I would certainly also consider using U-100 syringes (see my post from yesterday or the day before) - with 30 or 31-gauge needles, short ones, as they should be long enough to deliver the insulin just fine, including in the scruff if need be. My friends on other lists who use the U-100 syringes with the thinner, shorter needles say they make a world of difference.

While feeding Princess treats, croon to her; stroke her very gently. Study up on canine calming signals on my web site and elsewhere, so you know how to avoid scaring Princess more.

http://www.coherentdog.org/arc2006/calmsig.htm

You might also find this article helpful:

http://www.coherentdog.org/arc2006/dogconnect.htm

Another approach to giving injections without having to force Princess completely is here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/groomintable.php

And finally, this is something to work with - crooning, singing (also, stroking gently):

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/cuesing.php

So, what you need to work on is, changing Princess's EMOTIONAL RESPONSE to the situation! Re-condition her emotions. The more force you use, the more difficult it gets. As you are finding, unhappily, is true.

If you have two people, I would STILL suggest you NOT confine Princess, not even in arms as the pictures I sent Natalie show; those would be for some emergency only; force-holding Princess tight will only make her more terrified.

So, if you do have two people, I'd have one do the crooning and stroking and treat-giving, and the other giving the injection at a moment when Princess is passably relaxed.

The shot WILL hurt if Princess is very tensed-up, but if you can get her to relax, she'll barely feel it at all, especially if you keep the bevel up, as I think Kathy pointed out, and use the thinner, shorter needles.

In your place, I would certainly try what I am suggesting.

If all else fails, I would ask my vet about giving a sedative before the injection, just a few times. I hope not Acepromazine, since that doesn't actually remove ANY of the fear; it merely removes the ability to coordinate the muscles - it's a chemical restraint, which is almost as bad as a physical restraint. I believe vets have a short-term sedative that might work - not sure.

Keep us posted, Ladygirl! Keep asking for help, as long as you need it! I know everyone here will help.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:07:52 (PST)

[We Hope]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

Before anyone can possibly think about doing a conversion from U 40 to U 100 syringes, one has to get past the problems with doing the injection, regardless of which type of syringe will be used.

Has anyone solved their injection problems by using any of these methods just mentioned? If so, please do post about it.

Kathy

[CarolW]

Re: Shot-time Dilemmas-Your Experiences & Fixes, PLEASE!

Can't really say more than I've already said; this is a problem with a terrified dog, and the terror needs addressing first.

With the single exception that perhaps confining-in-arms as shown in the photos I sent privately to Natalie by email might help.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:48:09

[We Hope]

Re: Shot-time Dilemmas-Your Experiences & Fixes, PLEASE!

Carol,

None of the links on your previous post address any issues with giving insulin shots. We are looking for information from those people who have had issues with giving shots and how they personally solved it.

Kathy

[CarolW]

Re: New Member - Princess Just Diagnosed with Diabetes

I guess you mean, somebody else besides me, but I know of at least two people who solved the terror problem by putting the dog on a table or counter (MUST be careful with that!), and providing a saucer semared with peanut-butter for the dog to lick.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:55:56 (PST)