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CarolW
09-19-2008, 10:55 PM
Hi! I'm new here - been here a few days, looking around. I stumbled on this forum - must have been while reading the Pet Diabetes Wikia area.

Kwali is my elder dog; recovering from a mild stroke; doing well; she's 13.5 years old. She and my diabetic dog, Kumbi, who will be 12 on 19 November, are the dearest of good buddies. Both are second-hand dogs, at least in a sense. Both were young when they came to me.

Kumbi is in glowing good health, two years after diagnosis with diabetes. I didn't get on the web or join lists for the first 8 months after diagnosis - my vet was so good, I didn't really need much help, but when finally I did join some lists, it was a lot of fun to be sharing with others. I tried a bunch of lists, and found one sort of passable one, and one that I really like.

A few days ago, I left the passable one, as events there had me feeling a bit shaky about communications there. The same day, later, I discovered this forum. I was so greatly taken by the immense competence here, as well as the friendly tone, and the wonderful organization, that I linked here from my web site.

Naturally, with a diabetic dog, we live on a pretty tight schedule; being old and retired for many years now, this was new to me; I had to re-learn how to do things on time! I use a calendar program to help me out! It talks to me until I check off, or tick off, the current task that needs doing. That's a blessing for me; I get quite distracted at times.

I'm really enjoying reading your posts here. Thanks for being here!

Fair warning - I write very, VERY long posts; will try to control myself! (But that's a reason I have a web site, where again, I am VERY long-winded!) So much so that I had to put in a "Fast-Track" set of links to get through part of it.

I added a narrator to my site when, on the passable list, I kept encountering attitudes about diabetes that cast doom-and-gloom. There's no need for that, and I think it's no good for newcomers to diabetes, who would do far better to come here. So, my cohort and narrator, Vekkie, has the job of making people laugh. I suppose that to enjoy that stuff, you really need a relaxed sense of humor!

Looking forward to coming here to share stories! The most refreshing thing about this place is - it's all about the dogs. Thank you, Natalie and Kathy!

Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:51:11

k9diabetes
09-19-2008, 11:39 PM
Hi Carol,

I will try to give you a run for your money in the long-winded post department!!

We would love to hear more about Kumbi and the insulin/diet you use.

There's a poll at the top of this forum where you can record it so others can see what system you are using to keep Kumbi healthy and happy. That's very useful for new members or for people thinking about changing diets/insulins/regimens.

Also there's a forum for your Kumbi's story of diagnosis, regimen, and living with diabetes. I found similar stories very helpful to me when Chris was first diagnosed - especially about a dog named Rena who lost her vision to diabetes-induced cataracts and still went hiking in the wilderness of Utah - so wanted a place for them here. You can always edit them to update or add a new post with new or additional information.

Nice to see you "officially here." I'm hoping to have some time this weekend to read more on your website, http://www.coherentdog.org/.

Welcome!

Natalie

k9diabetes
09-19-2008, 11:40 PM
Oh cool! I see you've already put his information in the poll thread. Great!! :)

CarolW
09-20-2008, 02:21 AM
Oh cool! I see you've already put his information in the poll thread. Great!! :)

Yeah; I started there. Speaking of long-winded! That's a great idea; surely helpful to all, to see all the different things going on.

Back to bed now!

Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:20:42

Denise
09-20-2008, 06:14 AM
Welcome Carol and Kumbi and family!

Will read at your site today too!

Ricksma
09-20-2008, 06:31 AM
Welcome Carol and Kumbi and Kwali, too! I am so glad that you have found this site...the folks here are about as knowledgeable as you can get, and they are here to help and support you. Ricky and I feel fortunate to be a part of this community...no negative energy here!

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

CarolW
09-20-2008, 06:49 AM
Welcome Carol and Kumbi and family!

Will read at your site today too!

Hope you enjoy reading. Warning - not only is it long-winded; it's also outrageously playful!

Wow, you have some animal family there! |'m sure you have your hands VERY full! Two is all I can manage. I gotta say, though, the BOND that develops during care of an animal is totally amazing.

And I'm really enjoying the straight-forwardness and friendliness of this place.

Sat, 20 Sep 2008 05:47:47

CarolW
09-20-2008, 07:05 AM
Welcome Carol and Kumbi and Kwali, too! I am so glad that you have found this site...the folks here are about as knowledgeable as you can get, and they are here to help and support you. Ricky and I feel fortunate to be a part of this community...no negative energy here!

Love and hugs, Teresa and Ricky

Teresa - I was just reading about Ricky last night. It's good to begin to get to know some of you. I'm sure I'll get to know people-and-animals here, eventually! I am such a nut about communications, and getting to know you all.

You can tell - YES; you CAN tell - when the people who make a forum (that's really all of you, with Natalie and Kathy leading the way) - are dedicated truly to the animals. It shows. And it's what attracted me here.

I have a ton still to learn about diabetes in dogs, and I found a great place to learn more - here! And on the Pet Diabetes Wikia site. Excellent site. That's why Vekkie and I can be so outrageous - we don't have to be complete!

Also, I love having a place I can point to when people are needing more help - namely, here!

Thanks for the welcome!

Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:04:46

rhodesian46
09-20-2008, 09:52 AM
Welcome Carol,Kwali and Kumbi!!!! What does their names mean? You have come to right place Kathy and Natalie are soo smart. They help me when I become psycho and stressed!!!And :D:D:D else here as well!!!

Cara's Mom
09-20-2008, 10:14 AM
Welcome Carol, Kwali and Kumbi! You found the right place! No negative people around here:D:D! All of them have helped me getting through my first month and 1/2. I 'm still learning, but this forum has made sure that I am now a lot better informed.

I am curious too what your dogs names mean!

Best wishes,

CarolW
09-20-2008, 10:32 AM
Welcome Carol, Kwali and Kumbi! You found the right place! No negative people around here:D:D! All of them have helped me getting through my first month and 1/2. I 'm still learning, but this forum has made sure that I am now a lot better informed.

I am curious too what your dogs names mean!

Best wishes,

Oh, Marion - I recognize you and Cara. I read some of your story. Looks to me as though you're doing well!

I forgot to respond to the "negative" remark in a previous welcome, but will do so now, along with yours. I think maybe negativity is a cultural habit, or often, it is. A kind of moaning and groaning. Well, it's understandable if people do that sometimes, but we need not DWELL on it! Laughing is better. Even though laughter and crying are sometimes close to the same thing; haha!

Thanks for the welcome and the comments! I'm going to try to read everything here! It will take me a while. And yes, Natalie and Kathy are EXTREMELY well-informed, and we can all benefit. They are so well-informed because they WORK at it, and pay attention - AND they are thinking about the dogs, not about themselves. It's so obvious it hits you in the face! Oh, happy day when I found my way here!

Oops - almost forgot, about the names. I made them up. I try stuff out, chant it, sing it, see what is easy to call out, I hope, distinctive from what else I might call out - so the dogs know I'm talking to or about them, when I do! I had to come up with "Kwali" fast, because I had one hour's notice that she would be my dog, and I was determined to change her name, which had been "Happy," but she was not a happy dog; not at all. She was in poor condition. I had a bottle of Koala drink on my desk; didn't want to call her Bear, but somehow, Kwali seemed okay, so that was it. Kumbi was just the result of singing and chanting. Also, a pun on Kumbaya, my Lord, Kumbaya.

Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:31:32

Debbie & Apollo
09-20-2008, 01:24 PM
Just wanted to say hello and also, I checked out the site --

thanks -- it's always nice to have a place to go to get information!

Debbie and Apollo

We Hope
09-20-2008, 05:12 PM
Carol and "Company",

Welcome! So nice to see that you've started Kumbi's thread! I think we're on the way to some great discusssions, as it looks like none of us are short on words. :) I remember Natalie once saying to me when we were on the other board, "When did you ever write a short post?" :D

Well, there's lots of room to spare here for those of us who are of that nature, so feel free to gab away!

Again, great to see you're part of the bunch! ;)

Kathy

CarolW
09-20-2008, 07:18 PM
Just wanted to say hello and also, I checked out the site --

thanks -- it's always nice to have a place to go to get information!

Debbie and Apollo

Hi Debbie and Apollo,

Of course I'm partial to Apollo, being in some ways quite similar to my dogs!

About information, I think whatever actual information you find on my site about diabetes, you will also find here and on the Pet Diabetes Wikia site - sometimes more concisely stated than on my site (hahaha!) My site might be helpful for some aspects of behavior, or for some pictures, at least, to entertain.

And I hope it could cheer up people who are REALLY needing a laugh right now! Or an Anodyne. (I just changed the Canodyne picture, because DogDaddy George came home with one that's perfect to show the area above the Syringe Forest. I'll be adding to that part, too.)

To find it, look for Canodyne on the right side of any main page in the main area.

So, when you want the information fast, come here!

Kwali and Kumbi send special greetings to their cousin, Apollo, and I, to you!

Sat, 20 Sep 2008 18:16:47

CarolW
09-20-2008, 08:26 PM
Welcome Carol,Kwali and Kumbi!!!! What does their names mean? You have come to right place Kathy and Natalie are soo smart. They help me when I become psycho and stressed!!!And :D:D:D else here as well!!!

Thanks so much for your welcome! I'm still finding my way around here! I haven't read about Pebbles yet, but I will do that soon! I love reading about all the different dogs. I think we learn a ton, reading about each one.

About Natalie and Kathy - I did remark that it's obvious they really work at what they do - all experts do that. I think it's in their natures. They can't stop! A friend of mine wrote a wonderful article on expertise, when international dog-trainer Turid Rugaas was a guest on a Yahoo Group called DogRead. Natalie and Kathy look like experts to me, by my friend's definition. That article is in another outrageous piece of silliness on my web site, here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/vkkdebunk.php

The PAGE is silly, but the ARTICLE is not!

I hold such deep respect for people who work this way - and communicate this way. It is THESE people who are truly helpful.

Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:24:22

Dollydog
09-30-2008, 08:43 PM
Hi Carol and welcome,
You have 2 Aussie's!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D

I read your thread last week and checked out your website. Not sure I'll ever be able to read all the stuff there but enjoyed reading about your dogs. I have a black and tan Aussie and her picture and story are on the caninecushings.net site. Haven't posted her story or picture here yet but should get around to that after the cold weather arrives and the election is over on Oct. 14th.
My Lady would have been returned to her breeder at a young age if she had come to a different household. She turned 12 on July 2nd and was born in British Columbia, arriving at our house on August 31/96. She's my buddy, my soul doggie, dog of my heart and my life! But she's dog aggressive and has been almost suicidal in her protection of me. She's also the toughest little soul I have ever met. I could go on but I won't....:p
Off to bed now but will read more on your website,
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

CarolW
09-30-2008, 09:04 PM
Hi Jo Ann,

How great to hear from you! I was over reading on the Cushings forum, as a guest, since I don't have a Cushings dog, and I already have too much to do, but I wanted to get filled in on Marianne and Pebbles. I saw Lady's picture there! and NOTICED it! Said to myself, I know her (you); I've seen your posts here on k9diabetes!

About my web site, yes, it's BIG! A total ton of stuff there. I have a big fat mouth!

So many people, when they say "Aussies," mean Australian Shepherds, that I usually say "Australian Terriers," when talking about my dogs. Actually, I had others before Kwali and Kumbi - all except the very first, from the same breeder.

Which breeder is Lady from? Kwali and Kumbi aren't related; they are completely different lines; they're from Karen and Bill Sargent, Kayaust kennels. Both dogs were given to me; Kwali had been returned by a clueless family, and Kumbi, the breeder just hadn't been able to place satisfactorily.

I do love, love these Australian Terriers; they are so spunky!

Looking forward to hearing more from you, Jo Ann. Thanks for the welcome! I'm so impressed with the k9diabetes forums and site that I've now put them on my new links page, and also in the main navigation area down the right sides of the main pages.

Looking forward to all exchanges with k9diabetes people!

Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:02:16

Dollydog
10-01-2008, 11:19 AM
Hi again,
I never refer to Australian Terriers as Aussies with anyone other than people who are talking about terriers!! As soon as I say Australian Terrier to non-terrier people they think about Australian Shepherds or the cattle dogs.

Lady came from Graasands(?) Kennel in Cobble Hill, BC, close to Victoria. I saw the Kayaust kennel in my Dogs in Canada Annual. Lady's dad came from Rose Parker's kennel but died shortly after she was born. She has his personality but her mother's looks!! I can't get at the details right now but will PM them to you later.

I actually fit into the clueless owner category :p but have learned so much since Lady came into my life. And she's still alive after all this time!! I'd have another one in a heartbeat but don't think my husband could handle it!!! If we ever had another Aussie it would have to get along with everyone and be the most easy-going dog on the planet! ;)
Take care and talk soon,
Jo-Ann & Lady :)

ladysmom06
10-01-2008, 02:46 PM
Hi Carol,

Just wanted to welcome you, Kwali, and Kimbi to the board. When I get a chance I will check out your site - things have been a little crazy here ( at my house not the board) - don't get to spend as much time on the board as I would like. Hugs to you and the gang.

Luv,
Lynne and Lady

CarolW
10-04-2008, 09:16 PM
Hi Lynne and Lady,

Thanks so much for the welcome! Everyone here is SO friendly! I see Lady has quite a few problems; ouch! I did some reading on the Cushings board. I admire you people who manage both Cushings and diabetes. Wish you the very, very best of luck!

It takes a lot of dedication - but oh, my; the payoffs are wonderful, if you get this stuff under control! Your dedication is gorgeous!

Sat, 4 Oct 2008 20:15:11

CarolW
10-04-2008, 09:58 PM
Here are Kumbi's readings again, from yesterday and today; this time, my topic is not the comparison between the OneTouch Ultra meters and the GlucoPet, but the dog! Oh, my beloved Kumbi!

Background information on Kumbi: he will be 12 years old on 19 November this year. He was diagnosed short of his 10th birthday, 1 September, 2006 (diabetes, yes [grin]). It took us over a year to get him quite stably regulated; my vet told me that's common, not to worry. We started from scratch with Novolin NPH insulin. My vet gradually raised the dose - very gradually, based, of course, on clinical signs, general evaluation, and BG curve tests. AFter the first few BG curve tests, done in the vet's office, I decided to do them at home, because Kumbi stressed so badly in the office. THAT was a good decision! Kumbi hates Procedures but he's very cooperative.

All this year, he's been very stable. His most recent official dose has been steady since spring this year: 6.5 units of Novolin NPH insulin. (But I nudged it up sometimes after the last BG curve on 19 August- up to 6.75 units.)

I feed Medi-Cal Fibre Formula prescription vet diet. Kumbi gets 1 cup of dry, and about 4 grams of canned, for each meal, 12 hours apart. He gets his insulin shot 30 minutes later. I am very consistent about this - same food, same amount of food, each day, each meal. I'm retired, always at home; that helps! He weighs about 19.5 pounds (8.8 Kg). That seems just right for him; my vet is happy with it.

I feed at 6:30 a.m. and p.m., and shoot at 7:00!

I do feed tiny bits of treat, which can be a few soaked kibbles of the dry food (usually, three, after walks, which we do twice a day, usually 30 to 40-minute strolls - lots of sniffing and explorng - very relaxed. Sometimes we have some excitement on walks - meeting people or dogs).

I also sometimes give small bits of steamed broccoli, tiny bits of boiled white potato, little pieces of fresh strawberry, or a blueberry or two, in season - that sort of treat. I put the fruit on top of his kibble for breakfast. I use bits of it at "eyedrop time," which is really Kwali's time; she needs gentle lubrication, as she couldn't blink after a mild stroke. She can blink now, having mostly recovered from the stroke, but I do the eyedrops anyway.. Then I started doing Kumbi's, too, as he had an inflamed conjunctiva for a bit - vet trip resulted - I think he had a bit of grass in his eye that time -no scratches on the cornea. But he can certainly use the eye-wash, small as it is, so it's a good habit. I use Natural Tears, as my vet directed. It's a very innocuous substance. Kumbi is tolerating this Procedure very well; loves his treat afterwards. (He's almost, but not quite, completely blind - sees light and dark, has vestiges of peripheral vision.)

So, first, the readings; then the commentary. All these readings are afternoon. Kumbi's typical nadir can be any time between 2 and 6 p.m.

He's been running slightly high on most of his curve tests. After the previous BG curve, 19 August, which ran a bit high, but had a lowish nadir, I discussed the possibility of tweaking the 6.5 units up to 6.75. I use the 3/10 cc BD syringes, with half-unit markers, 31-gauge needles. This is very comfortable for us.

My vet said I could try tweaking a bit, but didn't think it was necessary. I did nudge up his dose a bit, to that 6.75 units - but I wasn't TESTING! The following readings are the first since the last BG curve (19 August this year).

Friday 3 Oct 2008: OneTouch UltraMini, GlucoPet

16:27 - 5.9 mmol/L = 106 mg/dL - OneTouch UltraMini
16:28 - 6.0 mmol/L = 108 mg/dL - GlucoPet

18:01 - 8.4 mmol/L = 151 mg/dL - UltraMini
18:02 - 8.8 mmol/L = 159 mg/dL - GlucoPet

Saturday 4 Oct 2008

11:31 - 12.4 mmol/L = 223 mg/dL - OneTouch Ultra2
11:31 - 12.7 mmol/L = 229 mg/dL - GlucoPet

14:01 - 10.6 mmol/L = 191 mg/dL - OneTouch Ultra2
14:02 - 8.1 mmol/L = 146 mg/dL - GlucoPet

16:09 - 5.5 mmol/L = 99 mg/dL - Ultra2
16:10 - 6.2 mmol/L = 112 mg/dL - GlucoPet

17:56 - 7.4 mmol/L = 133 mg/dL - Ultra2

My comments:

Yesterday's 5.9 / 6.0 scared me a bit; I didn't know if Kumbi might have been lower before those readings. Doing the second spot check (pair of readings) reassured me that his BGs were on the way up, rather than down, before his supper.

But then I wanted to know if maybe he might have been lower, so I wanted to test today, from about 2 p.m..

Today's readings were even scaier; although it does seem Kumbi's nadir is around the range of 4 p.m., which is fine.

But I decided to cut his dose back to 6.5 units exactly. So, I did that, this evening, and will stay there for some time, unless I see clinical signs of some sort that suggest testing again, and maybe a slight dose adjustment - up or down.

I like to leave just a little leeway, in case of unusual exertion, or anything else that might lead to a hypo. Kumbi has never had a hypo, and I never want him to have one! The closest he ever came was the evening of 8 June, 2007, when he delivered readings of 3.8 mmol/L (68 mg/dL) and a minute later, 3.9 mmol/L (70 mg/dL) (OneTouch Ultra meter), just before his suppertime. at that time. I cut his dose from its then 4.5 units of Novolin NPH insulin to 4.25 units, and I phoned my vet, who returned my call in the morning, and said, good; leave it there. Later, we increased his dose gradually again, till it reached its current official level of 6.5 units of Novolin.

Sat, 4 Oct 2008 20:57:09

CarolW
11-11-2008, 10:45 PM
I did Kumbi's BG curve test today. I'm using a OneTouch Ultra2 meter - a really great meter. But also, I'm testing a GlucoPet meter, and I tried to do a second reading, each time I pricked for a blood sample. I had trouble getting enough blood for that second test. Poor Kumbi; he was SO good!

I won't report the GlucoPet readings I DID get, in this post, but might post later to compare its results with the Ultra2. My impression was that when I got the blood sample right, the GlucoPet and the OneTouch readings were close enough so the differences were insignificant.

I'm pie-eyed with fatigue - guess I got 5 hours of sleep last night, and no nap today, what with the BG-testing - I'm too old for this; ha! Need my naps, when I have short nights!

This is the report I just sent to my vet.

Kumbi Blood Glucose levels, Tuesday, 11 November 2008

Kumbi weighed about 20 pounds, 10:30 a.m. Monday, 10 November 2008
Weather - cool (10 C = 50 F), drizzle, showers

Current insulin dose: 6.5 units of Novolin NPH insulin, twice daily
at 07:00 and 19:00 (30 minutes after meals)

Meals: 1 cup of MFF dry, 4 g of MFF canned, 06:30 and 18:30
Treats after insulin: 2 g of MFF canned

[MFF is Medi-Cal Fibre Formula.]

Meter: OneTouch Ultra2

READINGS AND EVENTS

05:36 - 13.8 mmol/L = 249 mg/dL
Breakfast, 06:30 - 1 cup MFF dry, 4 g MFF canned
07:01 - 13.7 mmol/L = 247 mg/dL
Insulin at 07:04 - 6.5 units Novolin NPH (long-term stable dose)
WALK - an hour early (rain threatening) 08:00-08:26 - low excitement
09:00 - 14.1 mmol/L = 254 mg/dL
11:02 - 17.2 mmol/L = 310 mg/dL
13:01 - 16.2 mmol/L = 292 mg/dL
Walk, 13:43 - 14:15 approx (32 min) low excitement
Kumbi active between about 14:30 and 14:50
Brief visit with Ed, barking at stuff (Sentry duty)
15:03 - 11.8 mmol/L = 213 mg/dL
17:02 - 9.6 mmol/L = 173 mg/dL
18:20 - 10.1 mmol/L = 182 mg/dL
END SERIES of tests
Supper 18:34

My comments: Kumbi stresses a fair bit at testing, tries to escape, but cooperates at test-time.

In the last five days or so, we've had less walking than usual, quite a bit less, as it's been raining a lot. Last spot-checks, 3-4 October, showed low numbers (right on the edge!) in the late afternoon, before Kumbi's supper.

I'd guess his BGs are running a bit higher now, with less exercise.

Tue, 11 Nov 2008 21:42:13 (PST)

eyelostit
11-13-2008, 12:18 AM
Your doing a great job with Kumbi :) the decreased exercise would make a difference.

I find with Niki she ain't happy goin below 150, today we had a 142 fast am and a 165 pm fast. I better note it on Niki's post.

I liked your website, when did you start it?

CarolW
11-19-2008, 01:49 AM
Hi Dolly,

Sorry I seem to have missed your reply - gosh - about a week ago now! Thanks for thinking I'm doing well; actually, I attribute that to Kumbi himself, as he keeps me well-informed!

Kumbi, diagnosed on 1 September 2006, is 12 years old today. He remains in glowing good health; his blindness hasn't changed for the last couple of years, so I'm hoping he'll retain the small amount of vision he still has - some peripheral vision; he seems to see light, dark, and motion.

Can't see right in front of his nose - yet he seems to see when I pick up the bottle of eye drops, which I give both to Kwali and to him! Kumbi doesn't care for the eye drops, yet they don't really bother him; it's just that it's a Procedure, which makes it automatically suspect. He does like the treat afterwards, though (a lick of his canned food).

We've picked up the exercise a bit, with less rain, the last few days. Kumbi continues to feel good, and Stroke-Dog Kwali does, too, at age 13.5, so I'm happy for now!

I picked up your news on Niki; hope she continues in better form now! (hehe)

Wed, 19 Nov 2008 00:48:34 (PST)

rhodesian46
11-19-2008, 05:39 PM
Carol,
You are doing a great job with Kumbi and Kwali too. I can tell that you love them !!!! I also appreciate that you have read all of Pebbles posts on the Cushings forum. She was a special girl and is missed terribly. It is very strange to have 5 dogs as I count them going outside and were used to counting six. Jasmine her sister is doing well Lots of attention from me I am so glad I kept them as I birth 7 puppies. AM looking forward to reading more from you

CarolW
02-13-2009, 02:11 PM
Okay so we had a major setback today...

It took me a HALF HOUR to inject her. She became so unbelievably squirmy that I couldn't hold on to her skin more than a second.
Suggestions? I know I'm still in the early stages but I just can't help feel that she is NEVER going to get used to getting injected or that it will ever become EASIER.



Oh, dear Ladygirl! I just sent two photos to Natalie; hope she can post them for you.

They are of Anna, another MinPin; she belongs to Phyllis, who has given me permission to use the two photos if they can possibly help anybody out.

What they show is how to confine the dog in arms. Obviously, you need two people for this; one to confine the dog; the other to inject.

If you don't have two people, you will need a different approach ANYWAY.

From all you say, it is VERY clear that Princess is simply terrified This means, she cannot pay attention to ANYTHING AT ALL that might make ANY SENSE at all. All she can do is struggle and try to get away, and that, of course, is what you're getting!

I hope you can plan to take an hour's time for your next few injections.

First, prepare the syringe; if you can, do it out of Princess's sight; just keep the filled syringe where you can reach it.

Then sit down with a few treats - well, QUITE a few. Remember this is a temporary situation. If you can smear some very tasty stuff on a saucer - say, cottage-cheese, or even a very thin layer of (safe) peanut butter, or cream cheese if need be, on a saucer, and hold it for her, great. Let her lick it. She won't get much FOOD that way, but it will taste good.

Or I use a tiny bit of my dogs' canned food (suitable for diabetics); put a bit on my finger, and let the dog lick it off. Or smear it on a saucer, or even on a vertical surface -the fridge door, for instance.

Plan NOT to hold onto Princess, till the very last instant. You WILL have to hold onto her skin or body in some small way, to be able to inject. If you can lift up a bit of her skin on the scruff (top of the neck); I would risk using that less-than-great location for injections just for a few days, till Princess learns injections are no big deal after all.

What you need to do is to take the terror out of the whole thing, which is why you cannot afford to go on trying to confine her when she is terrified.

I would certainly also consider using U-100 syringes (see my post from yesterday or the day before) - with 30 or 31-gauge needles, short ones, as they should be long enough to deliver the insulin just fine, including in the scruff if need be. My friends on other lists who use the U-100 syringes with the thinner, shorter needles say they make a world of difference.

While feeding Princess treats, croon to her; stroke her very gently. Study up on canine calming signals on my web site and elsewhere, so you know how to avoid scaring Princess more.

http://www.coherentdog.org/arc2006/calmsig.htm

You might also find this article helpful:

http://www.coherentdog.org/arc2006/dogconnect.htm

Another approach to giving injections without having to force Princess completely is here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/groomintable.php

And finally, this is something to work with - crooning, singing (also, stroking gently):

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/cuesing.php

So, what you need to work on is, changing Princess's EMOTIONAL RESPONSE to the situation! Re-condition her emotions. The more force you use, the more difficult it gets. As you are finding, unhappily, is true.

If you have two people, I would STILL suggest you NOT confine Princess, not even in arms as the pictures I sent Natalie show; those would be for some emergency only; force-holding Princess tight will only make her more terrified.

So, if you do have two people, I'd have one do the crooning and stroking and treat-giving, and the other giving the injection at a moment when Princess is passably relaxed.

The shot WILL hurt if Princess is very tensed-up, but if you can get her to relax, she'll barely feel it at all, especially if you keep the bevel up, as I think Kathy pointed out, and use the thinner, shorter needles.

In your place, I would certainly try what I am suggesting.

If all else fails, I would ask my vet about giving a sedative before the injection, just a few times. I hope not Acepromazine, since that doesn't actually remove ANY of the fear; it merely removes the ability to coordinate the muscles - it's a chemical restraint, which is almost as bad as a physical restraint. I believe vets have a short-term sedative that might work - not sure.

Keep us posted, Ladygirl! Keep asking for help, as long as you need it! I know everyone here will help.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:07:52 (PST)

We Hope
02-13-2009, 02:21 PM
Before anyone can possibly think about doing a conversion from U 40 to U 100 syringes, one has to get past the problems with doing the injection, regardless of which type of syringe will be used.

Has anyone solved their injection problems by using any of these methods just mentioned? If so, please do post about it.

Kathy

CarolW
02-13-2009, 03:48 PM
Can't really say more than I've already said; this is a problem with a terrified dog, and the terror needs addressing first.

With the single exception that perhaps confining-in-arms as shown in the photos I sent privately to Natalie by email might help.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:48:09

We Hope
02-13-2009, 03:54 PM
Carol,

None of the links on your previous post address any issues with giving insulin shots. We are looking for information from those people who have had issues with giving shots and how they personally solved it.

Kathy

CarolW
02-13-2009, 03:56 PM
I guess you mean, somebody else besides me, but I know of at least two people who solved the terror problem by putting the dog on a table or counter (MUST be careful with that!), and providing a saucer semared with peanut-butter for the dog to lick.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:55:56 (PST)

We Hope
02-13-2009, 03:58 PM
If you have had shot issues with Kumbi, we want to hear about them and how you solved them.

Kathy

CarolW
02-13-2009, 03:58 PM
They address the terror issue. Especially the one cocerning the grooming table. Also, the emotinal conditioning necessary to change the dog's terror.

Ignoring the emotional condition is likely to allow the problem to continue. Attending to it can bring rather quick results.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:57:52 (PST)

We Hope
02-13-2009, 04:01 PM
They don't deal with giving insulin shots, and this is what we are looking for.

Kathy

CarolW
02-13-2009, 04:02 PM
I had only small ones - Kumbi's efforts to escape the shots. Nothing like what Ladygirl is having, as Kumbi never became terrified. However, I assisted two or three pepole eleswhere, helping them change the dogs' emotional assocaitions, and they reported almost immediate success. No guarantees that Ladygirl's succeses would be so immediate, because that's a lot of terror to overcome, but getting rid of most of the force should make the biggest difference, along with providing something tasty to lick (distraction).

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:02:15 (PST)

We Hope
02-13-2009, 04:05 PM
And how did you overcome Kumbi's resistance?

CarolW
02-13-2009, 04:15 PM
Similarly to how I described it in my long post. But I've ben omitting something crucial - before you can calm your dog, YOU must be calm. That will take som preparation - take a few deep breaths, have the prepared syringe ready, have the saucer ready, and tell youself you will stay calm.

If you consult any "positive" dog-trainer or behavior counselor, you will find them giving similar suggestions, though some omit the calming signals aspets. I use them because they work so well with dogs.

P.S. I've lived with dogs over 50 yars, put intensive study into behavior and training for over 30 years, and have experience with a a variety of dogs - large, small, feisty and calm.

To emphasize: calming YOURSELF first is essential.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:15:01 (PST)

We Hope
02-13-2009, 04:19 PM
Carol,

This still is NOT about you and Kumbi.

Kathy

CarolW
02-13-2009, 04:50 PM
Okay. I crooned to Kumbi, stroked him (had the syringe ready), and when Kumbi was fairly relaxed, I shot him. *I* was relased, first.

If Ladygirl will leave me a private message with her approximate location, I MIGHT be able to find a currently working dog behavior counselor near her who would be wiling to attend to help her change the dog's emotional associations (and to calm the dog so the injections can be given).

I did with Kumbi exactly what I described in my long post in Ladygirl's thread on Princess. It's standard operating procedure among "positive" dog-trainers and behavior counselors.

Though I retired many years ago, I still have some professionl contacts on the better behavior lists, so perhaps I could help locate somebody to help.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 15:50:23 (PST)

CarolW
02-13-2009, 05:28 PM
My long post seems to have disappeared, but I can point to excruciating detail on what I did with Kumbi:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/groomintable.php

Use the NEXT button to continue (PREV to go back)

and

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/painlessinj.php

Use the NEXT button to continue; PREV to go back.

There's also information on converting to use U-100 syringes with U-40 insulins; you can use the Fast-Track linsk:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/merrymeasure.php

And to compare needle-length and thickness, approximately to scale:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/cvt6p5udisplay.php

The first step in being able to inject is to keep the dog's emotions under some reasonable control, and the first step in doing that is to remain calm yourself. The painless-injection series comments on that.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:28:30 (PST)

We Hope
02-13-2009, 05:31 PM
http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6644&postcount=26

CarolW
02-13-2009, 06:51 PM
Thanks for the link, Kathy! I really appreciate it! about what happens when a dog is struggling to get away: the dog is terrified. It is in overload, and can't learn anything. People used to "sack out" horses, thinking the horses would learn that nothing is going to hurt them (while flogging them with soft sacks - no pain - only terror!)

The technique is called "flooding." Flooding isn't used any more by those who know behavior - horses or dogs, alike.

I knew that if I scared Kumbi, I would have to start from scratch another time, and get that shot to him without scaring him unduly.

Princess trying to claw her way out is dong her best to escape. Her fears at that point are irrational, and she can't learn anything, so will never be able to lear that the shot doesn't hurt (much).

So it's worth taking time to do all possible to get Princess to relax, at least a little, and of course, that's also what I did with Kumbi.

Kumbi will still sometimes begin to turn away as I come with the neelle, but stops when I lift his skin, and a moment later, he has his insulin, and is eagerly looking for the treat he knows follows the injection.

I really liked the idea of the "pretend-shot," and suggest Ladlygirl try that, as it's likely to help ease Princess's fears.

To calm a scared dog - to avoid arousing those fears, you have to change the visible and tactile cues the dog is getting that causes it to believe it is in danger, and must escape.

Thus engaging a dog's cooperation is basic to succeeding with injections.

Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:51:26 (PST)

CarolW
03-25-2009, 07:57 PM
Oh, my goodness! A bit over a week ago, I noticed Kumbi had been drinking more water than usual. I couldn't see anything wrong with him. My last curve test on him was 5 December, 2008. I was getting ready to do another curve very soon - just waiting till Kumbi had a relaxed day or two before I did the curve.

But - by Wednesday last week, I saw Kumbi was drinking quite a LOT more water than usual, and then Thursday (19 March) eve more.

Time for a test.

Thursday, 19 March 2009 - test results

Kumbi has been drinking more water, last two days
Especially last night and this morning.

SPOT CHECKS - Ultra2 meter

10:07 - 24.5 mmol/L = 441 mg/dL (high for Kumbi!)
14:35 - 12.8 mmol/L = 231 mg/dL (that's better; whew)

15:55 Ketones - negative (I had to buy strips in town)

I had checked Kumbi all over for possible signs of infection- couldn't find anything even remotely suggesting it. Kumbi's energy levels did seem slightly down, but not bad.

he had been munching on Neighborhoot Invader-Cat droppings. Could that be it? he does that occasionally, without particularly noticeable changes in his general BG levels.

BUT! The vial of insulin I was using - Novolin-NPH - had partly settled, or precipitated - at the time I bought it. So had my reserve vial - I always stay one vial ahead, if I can. I had never seen this before when buying Novolin NPH insulin - had seen it only in vials that HAD in fact deteriorated, over time. (I keep a lot of old vials around.)

To make a long story short, I phoned Novo Nordisk, and they are going to analyze the contents of the vial for me, free of charge. I received the pre-paid shipping packet in the mail today, and will mail it off tomorrow, my weekly Hunt Day, from the post office in town.

Meantime, I had bought a new vial at the drugstore on 19 March. Rather than start a new vial in the evening, I used the questionable one, and opened the new vial the next morning.

Over the next five days, Friday 20 March through yesterday, 24 March, Kumbi's water-consumption dropped gradually to normal.

So, big question! IS that vial weak? or not? Guess I'll find out! It will take time, though!

Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:55:30 (PDT)

eyelostit
03-25-2009, 10:25 PM
When did you open the vial of insulin? I know you sent it back, did you make a note of the date you started it on your log or info sheet for Kumbi ?

k9diabetes
03-26-2009, 11:32 AM
Will be interesting to see what the result of the testing it.

Dr. Bruyette last night told everyone to just NOT use a compounding pharmacy to make up insulin preparations that are readily available as commercial preparations because the consistency in the commercial preparations is so much better.

It is kind of amazing that there are relatively few problems with insulin given how many hands it goes through before arriving at the retailer.

I still wonder whether Vetsulin left out overnight actually was degraded.

I'm glad Kumbi's getting back to normal.

Natalie

CarolW
03-27-2009, 01:04 AM
Hi Dolly,

Knew I forgot SOMETHING critical in my post - thanks for asking! The date I opened the vial! I had purchased it on 29 January this year; opened it on 7 March (always for the a.m. shot). I had used it, then, for almost two weeks - it was in the second week that Kumbi's BGs began to climb - not too fast - but by18 March (Wednesday), they were quite up, and by Thursday the 19th, more so. Confirmed by that 10:07 reading of 23.5 mmol/L - 441 mg/dL.

I write on the carton the day I purchase a vial - careful not to cover up stuff like lot nmbers or expiration dates (that's shelf life, of course). I also write the date I open it on the carton - and on the vial, too. And the date I retire it, also on both. And I note it on my lovely Calendarscope computer program.

I did send the suspect vial off today. They probably won't receive it till Tuesday or Wednesday next week. They might check it promptly and will phone me with the results. I'll report back when they do!

Meantime, Kumbi is really back go his normal glowing good health; what a relief! That's after 7 days on the new vial.

Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:04:08 (PDT)

CarolW
03-27-2009, 01:07 AM
Yeah, Natalie - I've found Novolin NPH to be extremely consistent, as I buy it from my local pharmacy.

If not left in direct heat or sunlight, my understanding is that Vetsulin left out overnight should be okay. But you're referring to another thread; I'll have to look for it!

Fri, 27 Mar 2009 00:06:57 (PDT)

eyelostit
03-27-2009, 12:01 PM
I'm glad things are better.:)

CarolW
03-27-2009, 11:54 PM
Thanks, Dolly. We are, too! I'll report when I hear back from Novo Nordisk. Meantime, I did a spot-check today - 09:46: 15.9 mmol/L, which is 287 mg/dL; that's looking better! On the high side, but typical enough for that time of day, before Kumbi's walk.

Fri, 27 Mar 2009 22:54:24 (PDT)

CarolW
09-05-2009, 08:20 AM
A slightly late report on the insulin I sent to Novo Nordisk - they found nothing wrong with it. Since then, I've noticed in new vials, some apparent precipitation, but on mixing it for the first time, thereafter, there doesn't seem to be any precipitation. Kumbi continues well.

So well that I didn't even NOTICE we passed our third anniversary of his diagnosis.

But there was another reason I missed that interesting anniversary. See my next post.

Sat, 5 Sep 2009 07:19:55 (PDT)

CarolW
09-05-2009, 08:35 AM
Originally sent to the moderator team for the Yahoo group Pos-4-ReactiveDogs.

I've been in such a rush all week that I'm STILL tired from our Monday's vet excursion. But the story has some amusing elements to it, so I'm sending it to you.

One of the moderator group drives 8 hours to use the clinic where Dr. Julia Harrison works.

Dr. Julia Harrison also comes by the clinic I use, which is a considerable distance from the clinic where she works.

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:24:34 -0700
Subject: Kwali, Kumbi and I met Dr. Julia Harrison today!

Yesterday, early afternoon, I saw Kumbi gesturing at his left flank. I checked his knee - nope; didn't seem to have a problem. I was SO stupid!

By evening, Kumbi was humping his quilts, groaning - at first, I thought he was playing - then I thought; HEY - maybe his diabetic-infection site is inflamed - his left anal gland. Most diabetic dogs get UTIs, rather than anal gland infections, but Kumbi specializes in locating his infections in his left anal gland.

Down onto the dog bed for a warm-to-hot wet pack. Applied for around five or more minutes. His gland was swollen to the size of a cherry tomato, poor guy. A bubble of pus came to the top. I was so tempted to prick it, but thought, nooooo - check with the vet before doing ANY such thing!

So I got on the phone.

Usually, my vet has someone on call to return off-hours calls, which they do in 10 to 20 minutes, but they must be on a late-summer special schedule, because the message on the machine said to call a big ER hospital in the city.

That's a very good, very expensive, hospital. I phoned there, described the situation, and asked if I could prick the pus-bubble with a sterile syringe needle. The receptionist checked, twice, with a tech, who would NOT recommend such a thing (especially not without seeing the dog first).

Very proper, and I took them seriously. They also went out of their way to try to help me, giving me information about two mobile vets. Ha! I doubt a mobile vet would come out this far! It would be close to 150 miles round trip. And if they would, the cost would be astronomical!

The idea, for me, was to get Kumbi comfortable for the night. Then, of course, I'd take him to my vet today.

Well, I went back and soaked Kumbi's gland again. Moments later, it burst - big mopping up, re-soaking, cleaning up - and Kumbi felt SO much better - this was great pain relief for him. Whew! I phoned ER again to let them know (and thanked them for their help, too). By the way, they also extracted a promise from me that I'd get him to my vet today. I had no problems promising that, as I know it's crucial to get onto these things quickly, and I had planned on it anyway.

This morning, first thing when my own clinic opened, I phoned, having walked the dogs early (Kumbi still looking much better). I got an appointment for 11:30, which allowed me to get set up comfortably -any earlier makes it rather rushed, as I MUST take Kwali along too; she can't be left home alone. Realizing they probably had a locum or two in, I asked who I would be seeing (I always accept whoever is there). They said, "Dr. Julia Harrison."

WOW! Beth - I had just gone to their web site yesterday, thanks to the link you provided for Dr. Julia's clinic, and read quite a lot there! Julia Harrison has often worked at the clinic I use, usually offering her complementary skills there. I'd flashed by her one day in passing, a couple of years ago, but you can't interrupt a busy vet in order to gawk and appreciate! haha!

So I was delighted - I'd finally get to meet her, and, of course, I have total confidence in her. That's a very nice feeling, when your own beloved two vets are both away.

The scheduling allowed me to be comfortable with the extra walk I do with the dogs just before leaving, to allow for urinating and defecating before the stressful car trip.

Also, I have to take them out when we get there, again to eliminate. Both dogs defecated after we got there, and also duly watered the ground.

Today, instead of leaving Kwali in the car, I took her in WITH Kumbi, as it was a hot day, and there wasn't sufficient parking in the shade. Kwali and Kumbi were both very good, at least, for them.

So that worked out well. I got weights on both dogs; luckily, it wasn't busy in the back where the scale is. Once, both dogs got on the scale at once - that was so cute!

Kwali is 9.6 Kg (21 pounds) - a good weight for her, though very slightly chubby, and Kumbi is a svelte 8.9 Kg (19.6 pounds) - very stable weight.

Kwali is somewhat smaller than Kumbi, which is why where she's slightly chubby, Kumbi is svelte.

You can guess. Dr. Julia was just GREAT with Kumbi. We left Kwali to fend for herself on the floor. We put Kumbi up on a mat - a rubber mat covered with a warm towel just out of the dryer!

Dr. Julia FIRST stroked Kumbi very gently - ah; great. She then shaved over and around the swollen gland, and said Kumbi is very stoic. Wow. Yes; well, he's always told me when things really hurt, if I'm doing painful things to him, so I have a feeling he didn't find that terribly painful.

Then she emptied both glands (the left one being really ruptured; the right, in good condition, without much in it).

Kumbi took the rectal without flinching, too. Goooood Kumbi! And, I think, not the least of his "stoicism" was - Dr. Julia's skill.

She gave me antibiotics for Kumbi; I also bought some dog food, and had them apply Advantage, too, as Dr. Julia said that was okay, and the dogs are a bit overdue for it. We have too many fleas around, and Kwali is ultra-sensitive to them.

Because I was up and stressed a lot yesterday and in the night too, I was really tired. Stopped in town to buy yogurt - GLAD Dr. Julia suggested it, saying the antibiotic might well upset Kumbi's tum.

It wasn't till an hour after I got home, at least, that I looked closely at the label - expecting Clavamox, or Amoxi-Clav (same stuff, I gather) - but it said, Cephalexin.

UH-OH! That stuff is pretty notorious for upsetting tums! I just do NOT want to risk Kumbi ACTUALLY getting an upset tum, to the point of having trouble eating, or vomiting after eating.

That sort of situation makes administering insulin VERY tricky - you have to watch closely, perhaps cut the dose - and if the dog vomits the meal, you can't take the insulin back out - it's been shot under the skin! So there's a risk of hypoglycemic episode.

That's one thing we have NOT had problems with - Kumbi hasn't failed to eat, nor has he vomited after meals, so I've been able to keep his insulin dose as it should be (for whatever it is at the time) = and his dose has been very stable for over a year now.

What should I do, do, do? I checked the time - a bit after 2:30. Dr. Julia would probably still be at the clinic. So I phoned, and asked why the Cephalexin instead of Clavamox? The receptionist checked - well, it was to save me money, as the Clavamox costs twice as much.

At which point, I explained it was worth far more to me to have Kumbi assured of being comfortable on the antibiotic, and NOT losing his appetite, nor possibly vomiting after eating - so I can keep the insulin dose stable easily. And I also think it's a lot better for Kumbi.

So Dr. Julia happily approved the change, and - I had an extra drive to the vet's and back - GAS MONEY down the drain - but worth it.

It was my fault; I should have read the label before leaving the clinic. And both my regular vets know our long history, and Dr. Julia had no way to get filled in on all that! So prescribing Cephalexin would have seemed natural for her. But she DID say to feed a tablespoon of yogurt every day. I'll put half on his breakfast, and half on his supper. And give Kwali a bit, too.

Anyway, I was just thrilled to meet Dr. Julia. I told her I'd been on their site yesterday, reading, because, Beth, you had provided the link!

I am SO tired, but beginning to relax. I have to get through Kumbi's injection after feeding, staying awake, and then a soak of the rear end; then I'll probably fall into bed.

Kumbi still feels better; that is such a help! And both dogs handled the trip well, and also, being left alone in the afternoon, after all that stress!

Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:21:50
Carol Whitney



Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:23:57 -0700
Subject: Yogurt - I feel SO cheated! (and stupid!)

I don't believe this. Yes, I do.

In the grocery store today, buying yogurt (which I don't often do), I pointed to a certain brand, and asked the guy stocking the shelves if that had live culture. He shook his head, which surprised me, because I thought it had, and he pointed to one called Activia.

So, well, no harm, and I bought the Activia.

When I opened the container about 20 minutes ago, to give Kumbi his yogurt on his meal, I tasted it myself - IT HAS SUGAR IN IT! I checked the label - sure enough; it has SUGAR - 16 GRAMS of it, in a 650-gram container. FOR SHAME! (My fault, again, though. I didn't have my reading glasses on.)

I put it on Kumbi's supper anyway; his BG levels will soar - but he'll stabilize over the next couple of days. That is, IF I can get hold of some yogurt WITHOUT sugar in it. But with an infection, sugar is the LAST thing you want to feed a diabetic dog. I did it anyway.

I phoned my delightful next-door neighbor, to find out if she's going to town tomorrow - she's not sure - doubtful. But when I explained what's going on, she immediately walked over here with a 650-gram container of live culture yogurt with NO SUGAR in it! (Update: Thursday, 3 September 2009; 17:34:32 - I take that back! It HAS sugar! But half the amount that's in the Activia. However, I guess if I want yogurt without sugar, I'll have to buy it at the health food store. (Didn't even think of that today, when I was in town. Kumbi is doing okay with the current yogurt, though, so I'll go ahead and use it up.)

So Kumbi will have better yogurt with breakfast, and next Hunt Day, I'll bring my neighbor a container of the same stuff she gave me. As for the Activia, I can eat it myself, though the sugar isn't that great for me, either! (Update, Thursday, 3 September 2009; 17:37:02: my neighbor said she did NOT want mm to replace the yogurt - she had too much of it!)

I like the taste, though! (of the Activia stuff).

This has been a hard day; it began with my all-vital Calendarscope program (which keeps me on schedule for Kumbi's diabetes - and, of course, Kwali too) crashing, around 1:30 this morning, when I tried to load an archived database, to search for "anal gland" - I couldn't remember just when Kumbi's last infection was - I think it was well over a year ago.

So I sent a bug report to Duality Software, makers of Calendarscope. They wrote back early this morning, and asked for a copy of the archive - all 2.5 MB of it - on dial-up! I started the message upload, and just let it run; lucky I have that new UPS (new battery) - so I DARED take the dogs to the vet while letting the upload continue. It did eventually finish - and - I'd forgotten to delete my Bcc to myself, so I got it all back again! It was all done by the time I got home with the dogs.

Duality Software people are GREAT. Which is why I have this page:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/calendarscope.php

So NOW, I have good yogurt for Kumbi (or so I thought; ha!). Oh - and the antibiotic that will work without upsetting his tum.

Now I just need to make sure he stays okay, having eaten sugar with his dinner - and do that soak of his rear end. Then fall into bed.

I don't hope to have another day like this any time soon!

Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:23:09
Carol Whitney

Further update, Thursday, 3 September 2009; 17:39:03: Kumbi is doing just fine. I stopped applying hot-packs to his rear, because he has no sign of swelling nor pain. I'll still be watching it, though. Both he and Kwali are really enjoying having yogurt with their meals!

Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:50:39

If there's a lesson in all this, perhaps it's how easy it is to become scatter-brained under heavy scheduling pressure - maybe especially for me, when I'm soooo tired and short of sleep! It helps if I can take a breather somewhere along the way, but I wasn't able to!

Kwali, now 14.5 and still doing well after her stroke last year (head-tilt is actually diminished somewhat) - and celebraring our 13th Kwali ComeDay anniversary on 3 September, and Kumbi, continuing to recover well from the anal gland infection, send their warm greetings, with licks and wags, to all on this forum.

Sat, 5 Sep 2009 07:35:14 (PDT)

k9diabetes
09-05-2009, 10:40 AM
Sorry to hear about Kumbi's gland... that sounds torturous! Jack had a bit of a full gland problem last week but nothing like what Kumbi went through.

Do you have the vet express them periodically?

We are waiting to see if it looks like Jack will need this done periodically.

Jack was on an antibiotic also but got Amoxicillin instead. Chris used to take Clavamox and the difference between Cephalexin and Clavamox was really drastic in terms of how well it's tolerated so we too opted for the more expensive but much gentler version. He took it perhaps a half a dozen times for the infections of the eyelid ulcerations he had.

Natalie

k9diabetes
09-05-2009, 10:41 AM
:) :) :) Happy Third Anniversary Kumbi!!! :) :) :)

Wishing you many many more.

Natalie

CarolW
09-06-2009, 08:56 PM
Hey, Natalie!

Usually Kumbi doesn't need his anal glands expressed; I think it's all the fiber in his diet. But as I mentioned, he seems to develop infections in the left gland. I think I'd rather have that than the UTIs, as it's easier to see! I should keep his rear trimmed, so I can NOTICE when he starts to show a bit pinkish - that's the time to start warm (nearly hot) wet soaks, and/or express the glands. I never learned to express them; should get my vet to show me, but I'm chicken about that. Very funny, when I don't mind testing BGs!

Kumbi has been quite comfortable since a week ago tonight, since I got the swollen gland to burst! But of course, he needs the antibiotics. I soaked for a couple more days, but felt silly, because there's no more swelling nor pinkness, but the area does have to heal up.

I was so glad I discovered I had Cephalexin BEFORE I opened the vial - well, they would have taken it back anyway, but it just makes things easier. I hope I learned that when there's a locum not familiar with us, I need to mention specifics about how we've gone along before, and what we do well with, even with the very best of veterinarians. The great ones read the dogs just fine, but can't read our MINDS all that well [deadpan]

Kumbi is REALLY enjoying the yogurt with every meal - and so is Kwali, though she gets less than Kumbi does (shhhh; don't tell Kwali).

We have another week on the Clavamox (rather, Amoxi-Clav), and then a re-check. Then we'll see where we go from there. Kumbi has in fact healed up well in the past on only two weeks of this stuff, so he might get away with it this time, too. I can always get more if my vet thinks he should have a couple more weeks on it.

And thanks for the Third Anniversary good wishes. I think it's very funny that I forgot all about it. Life with Kwali (stroke - hasn't recurred) and Kumbi - just seems normal to me - as I'm old enough to enjoy being home, totally retired a long time ago.

Kwali and Kumbi send their thanks as well.

Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:54:02 (PDT)

eyelostit
09-06-2009, 10:02 PM
Happy Anniversary Kumbi ! Good Job Mom

Sorry Kumbi had anal gland problems, a stinky subject, I used to express Niki's and my dog who passed glands years ago, I don't know how I ever did that. I changed their foods and it never happened again.

My old doggie really had a time, it finally got resolved with the 3rd antibiotic.

Glad things are better now for you and Kumbi

Dolly

Margaret Boyle
09-07-2009, 06:02 AM
Hey, Natalie!

Usually Kumbi doesn't need his anal glands expressed; I think it's all the fiber in his diet. But as I mentioned, he seems to develop infections in the left gland. I think I'd rather have that than the UTIs, as it's easier to see! I should keep his rear trimmed, so I can NOTICE when he starts to show a bit pinkish - that's the time to start warm (nearly hot) wet soaks, and/or express the glands. I never learned to express them; should get my vet to show me, but I'm chicken about that. Very funny, when I don't mind testing BGs!

Kumbi has been quite comfortable since a week ago tonight, since I got the swollen gland to burst! But of course, he needs the antibiotics. I soaked for a couple more days, but felt silly, because there's no more swelling nor pinkness, but the area does have to heal up.

I was so glad I discovered I had Cephalexin BEFORE I opened the vial - well, they would have taken it back anyway, but it just makes things easier. I hope I learned that when there's a locum not familiar with us, I need to mention specifics about how we've gone along before, and what we do well with, even with the very best of veterinarians. The great ones read the dogs just fine, but can't read our MINDS all that well [deadpan]

Kumbi is REALLY enjoying the yogurt with every meal - and so is Kwali, though she gets less than Kumbi does (shhhh; don't tell Kwali).

We have another week on the Clavamox (rather, Amoxi-Clav), and then a re-check. Then we'll see where we go from there. Kumbi has in fact healed up well in the past on only two weeks of this stuff, so he might get away with it this time, too. I can always get more if my vet thinks he should have a couple more weeks on it.

And thanks for the Third Anniversary good wishes. I think it's very funny that I forgot all about it. Life with Kwali (stroke - hasn't recurred) and Kumbi - just seems normal to me - as I'm old enough to enjoy being home, totally retired a long time ago.

Kwali and Kumbi send their thanks as well.

Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:54:02 (PDT)

Hi Carol,
Sorry you have had bother with Kumbi's anal glands. Funny you should talk about the extra fibre in the food, as Lucy since starting on the High Oats has had bother with her glands. The vet showed me how to do them myself but I am afraid it is pot luck. Sometimes I manage it and sometimes I don't and I have to take her in.:(

What does the natural yoghurt do? does it help let me know.

I hope Kumbi is a lot better now it must have been painful for him.:eek:

Hugs to you Kumbi and Kwali

CarolW
09-09-2009, 12:23 PM
Hi Margaret,

The yogurt helps restore the friendly bacteria in the gut that the antibiotic destroys. I didn't know before that you can give the yogurt during the full course of administering the antibiotics! Good to know that. Both Kumbi and Kwali are relishing the yogurt so much that I might continue it, if in lesser amounts for Kumbi; we'll see how his BGs and general condition go.

Thanks to all for the anniversary wishes for Kumbi! Apart from the anal gland infection, he's in glowing good condition. (oh, well, and apart from his near-total blindness; ha! - I don't notice it much any more, because he gets around so well. I do watch the condition of his eyes, though.)

Margaret - people are asking for your and Lucy's news - I'd be interested too; how about catching us up on Lucy? You could do that in your own thread, so people can find it more easily. Though my visits here are irregular, and I miss some stories, I TRY to keep up with all the residents, as much as I can. We are all in this together!

Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:22:31 (PDT)

We Hope
09-28-2009, 08:29 AM
Once a dog is well-stabilized on NPH insulin, too, the need for constant testing seems to be reduced, as long as there aren't other underlying conditions besides diabetes.

I'm not able to see how the use of NPH appears to mean that there's less need for testing. Can you provide any references?

Kathy

CarolW
09-28-2009, 09:03 AM
I'll copy my reply to this from the other thread, and perhaps add a few remarks here that apply to Kumbi and me only.

I'm not able to see how the use of NPH appears to mean that there's less need for testing. Can you provide any references?

Kathy

Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:02:24 (PDT)

CarolW
09-28-2009, 09:28 AM
I'm not able to see how the use of NPH appears to mean that there's less need for testing. Can you provide any references?

Kathy

(editing slightly to fit this thread - copy from Annie and Craig's thread)

Hi Kathy,

Thanks for catching that. It's a fairly complex consideration, according to all I read in various places - essentially, two other forums.

I can't provide specific quotes, without re-searching (literally) extensively, but I can say what I observe in general. This comes from long series, multiple posts, on other forums; I don't remember seeing such remarks here, though they may exist.

What appears to happen with people who change from Vetsulin (or Caninsulin) to NPH insulin is that, in general, they stop feeling very concerned about that first peak that occurs with the 30% amorphous component of Vetsulin. So, where once, they might have tested halfway through the day (or 4, 6, 8, whatever, hours after injection), people who have changed seem sometimes to omit that midday test.

I notice here, practically everyone seems to learn to test BG levels at home. I think that's a great safety measure, as well as keeping stress levels down for the dog, and it also helps keep costs down.

On the other forums I frequent, or read regularly, there are numbers of people who choose not to learn to test, some who do learn, but avoid testing much, and some who work to maintain tight glycemic control, and so, test at least at fasting-time (usually that's twice a day, before dog-meals), and sometimes "midday" (estimated insulin-peak-time, especially Vetsulin's [Caninsulin's] first peak).

That's all providing there's no particular indication of conditions other than diabetes.

Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:56:32 (PDT)

Now, about me and Kumbi. I prefer to avoid testing as far as possible, provided I see stability in Kumbi's curves and clinical signs - or their absence.

Kumbi Hates Procedures. It's his stock-in-trade. That affects my choice. I MUST do one procedure twice daily that he tries to avoid - that is, put his harness on so we can go walking! We have a little dance we do with the harness and Kumbi's escape techniques. It can take me three minutes to get his harness on him, because I accommodate his escape-attempts; that is, he has a safe zone - in his Front Stoop Pen, or under the table.

But I can lure him outta there, by completing other elements of the ritual of getting ready to go for a walk; finally Kumbi comes out, and stands to let me put his harness on.

Similarly, although he doesn't find BG testing painful (he REALLY lets me know if I hurt him), he tries to avoid lancet-Sticks. I never did work out how to get Kwali, his elder companion, to help me with that one, as I'm not even going to fake a BG test on Kwali.

For insulin shots, we have a whole dance, in which Kumbi gets actually shot, first, to make sure the syringe is empty, and then Kwali gets fake-shot. The dogs get bits of treat after the shot. This means, Kwali, in anticipation, comes, and Kumbi comes as well, so I don't have to do any chasing nor pursuing of any sort.

Other factors involved here are the general variation in BG levels caused by daily events. I dare limit testing because in general, Kumbi is in excellent health. At times, I've done lots of Sticks in a day, to track variation in BG levels with varying events. Also, I'm home with him most of the time, and if I'm not, often someone else is.

So he's closely watched.

I think we're generally aware that BG levels vary from day to day, and with varying events. All the same, as I keep records and make charts, there ARE similarities in curves from one to the next, enough to show trends.

My vet won't vary insulin dose without a BG curve (apart from the obvious - that is, if there's a low that suggests hypo might ensue, she or I will reduce the dose for at least one injection, possibly also reduce for about a week, till we see what the situation is).

My choice is very personal. My vet supports it.

Thanks for asking!

Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:24:35 (PDT)

CarolW
09-28-2009, 01:39 PM
Then this is strictly anecdotal.

Kathy

Entirely so, as what I wrote is based on my memory (!) of reports by individuals on those other forums I read, and their reports are, in turn, based on what choices they make about testing BG levels (at home).

In any situation resembling rebound (which you and Natalie are saying looks likely here, and I agree), seems to me testing is in order - including curves as needed to try to catch the rebound effect. And that part of it has nothing to do with choice of insulin.

Also, if somebody DOES change insulins, seems to me testing is again in order, at least till the dog seems well-regulated. And we'd need enough data to show trends, to determine that, too. Meaning, a number of curves over a period of weeks.

So, what I'm talking about is people's perceptions and choices. And THAT is also purely anecdotal.

Mon, 28 Sep 2009 12:37:27 (PDT)

CarolW
10-18-2009, 02:09 PM
I don't recommend my personal scheduling to ANYBODY! It has a few frustrations built in. But for me, it makes my life easier. We are approaching a time change - hey, I'd be happy if we didn't have to change clocks in fall and spring.

But I thought my methods might amuse some of you. Whether Kwali (now 14.5 years old) and Kumbi (will be 13 on 19 November) actually would notice, I'm not 100% positive - if I just always went with the clock, and so did things (by their body-timing) an hour later when we change clocks on 1 November this fall, I'm not sure.

I do, though, believe Kwali, in particular would notice an hour's delay in her SUPPER. Breakfast, she probably wouldn't care. Kumbi might also notice that long a delay - how much, I'm not sure.

But to keep myself on track, and make the adjustment very small for me AND the dogs, I start changing schedules two weeks ahead of time.

I go through an elaborate procedure setting up tasks in the Calendarscope program that sets off alarms for me. I have to tick off (check off) tasks when they are done, to make the computer shut up!

For me, it's great, because then I never wonder, DID I, or DIDN'T I, shoot Kumbi? (and fake-shoot Kwali?) And even, DID I, or DIDN'T I - feed the dogs! (that's easier to tell, in a way).

So, I start the change two weeks ahead by 15 minutes at a time, for three days in a row. Then another 15 minutes three days later, and so forth. This puts me (my schedules, that is), onto Standard Time several days in advance of the actual change! So all I have to do on the day of the actual change is, change the clocks. That's pestiferous enough for me!

Oh, change the time-date stamp in the meter! And in my camera! The computer does it automatically. Thank goodness!

I gotta say, the Calendarscope program is a blessing for me; it hasn't crashed in the several years I've been leaning on it so heavily.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/calendarscope.php

Its free companion program, DS Clock, is also wonderful - keeps my computer set to the correct time, AND shows me a list of today's tasks still unaccomplished.

I DO NOT have ANY personal interest in Duality Software (makers of Calendarscope). I DO, though, enjoy sharing my very favorite computer-programs! - especially any I use to help me with Kumbi's diabetes!

Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:09:32 (PDT)

CarolW
10-18-2009, 02:14 PM
I don't recommend my personal scheduling to ANYBODY!

Okay, so to change the topic line, I can't use Quick Reply. Lesson learned! But this subject line should be on my previous message, too!

Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:14:16 (PDT)

CarolW
11-01-2009, 09:40 PM
My DogNess! Oliver is ONE HANDSOME DOG! LOVE that picture!

I sorta hate to say this, but it's really not in the slightest necessary to do anything about the time change - you can just go by the clock. Of course, maybe the DOG has something to say about that! Which is why I bother with the gradual change, which is somewhat pestiferous to set up, especially for me; I'm SO bad with numbers.

But, as you said, His Royal Highness will have all possible consideration!

Delighted Oliver is doing so well! I thought I had a problem with Kumbi, and maybe I do - that is, he probably has a sore mouth or tooth or something; I'll have to check. He wouldn't eat his dry food this morning. So I fed him canned instead, which he ate. I cut his insulin dose by half a unit, to allow for the missing extra-carbs or fiber in the dry food. Temporarily, I trust!

This afternoon, I fed him three dry kibbles for his snack - he ate them. But then he wouldn't eat his dry kibble this evening, either. Brainstorm - I had a hot kettle - that is, the water in it; ha! I poured some over the kibble, mushed it up, tested for temp so Kumbi wouldn't burn his mouth, and put THAT down. Sure enough, he ate it with gusto! So his evening insulin dose went back up to normal.

My poor other, ndd dog, Kwali, is coming off a short course of Prednisone, and talk about being always hungry! She THINKS she's hungry, but it's the pred. She's just now settled, after hours of pacing and sometimes trembling. My vet said I could give her a small dose of Valerian - a calming herb (root); I have the tincture. THAT can be a problem - all that alcohol! But Kwali ate it, all right, mixed with a bit of her canned food. Whew! I think she's just settled for the night. Kumbi is snoozing away, so now I can finish my evening chores, and we'll gather on Our Bed to finish out the night.

What kind of dog is Oliver? I trust he'll continue well! Should, in YOUR care!

Sun, 1 Nov 2009 20:40:02 (first night of PST)

CarolW
11-23-2009, 08:52 PM
Here it is, almost three weeks since Kumbi's elder companion, Kwali, died. Same day as our dear friend Andy (Andrew) Craig - 3 November, 2009. Kwali elected to take her flight that day. (I can never resist a pun, no matter HOW bad - or at times, inappropriate!)

http://www.coherentdog.org/kwali.php

But I was thinking today. Kumbi and I went back to Dr. Amanda for a re-check on his left anal gland. That's his weak, "get-infected" area, which is easier to manage, I think, than a UTI.

Dr. Amanda hasn't even had time to see her picture, on this page:

http://www.coherentdog.org/kwalisanct.php

but - she had kindly given her permission to post it, sight-unseen.

She is truly a great vet. I ALWAYS feel good to see her. We had a few hugs over Kwali - rather, over Kumbi, who was, of course, under foot.

We were talking about longevity The day Kwali died, Dr. Amanda said, she'd sort of thought Kumbi would go first; he's about a year and a half younger than Kwali. But she seems to have revised that opinion, as hindsight is always a good teacher (haha!)

Today, Amanda was suggesting maybe Kumbi could reach 19. Well, she said, let's think about 20.

If she was kidding, she gave no indication of that - yet - she was, undoubtedly, kidding, as it would be REALLY rare for a dog from Kumbi's lines to reach 19 or 20.

You understand, I expect, that she was very pleased with how Kumbi is doing, and in effect, she was recognizing, out loud, that if we take really good care of our diabetic dogs - AND we are very fortunate (that does vary - dogs can have all kinds of complications; it's just that Kumbi's worst seems to be that weak left anal gland, and nothing worse!) - anyway, with all this good luck, we could expect at least a good long lifespan for Kumbi.

My DogNess - I fervently hope so.

I still feel my grief for Kwali intensely, but because I DO have Kumbi, and he DOES require a lot of care and attention, that prevents me from collapsing and wallowing in my grief. Fortunately, though Kumbi misses Kwali, he has always been a dog who enjoys life, and he is determined to go on with his own life. Go, Kumbi!

One of my joys with him is how he rolls on his back, yodeling, growling, grunting - among the pillows and quilts - on Our Bed - or on the bed he so often shared with Kwali - the "Tramp Bed" (trampoline-like - canvas slung on an aluminum frame). Another is how he sometimes strides out briskly on walks, despite his near-total blindness.

I will never forget Kwali; she is permanently hovering in the large hole in my heart - along with quite a number of other companions of mine who frolick with her at Rainbow Bridge. Also, we're in good company - with Andy Craig, and numbers of others from these forums, and the lists I frequent with Kumbi.

Kwali is welcoming Wolfie right now, and Kumbi doesn't plan to join them for some time to come, at least. But he's cheering Wolfie from here on Earth.

I keep applying duct tape to the cracks in my heart.

Love to all diabetic dogs and their humans, from Kumbi and me here on Earth, and from Kwali, frolicking in her slightly devilish style, above.

Kumbi; please bring me a tissue. Yes, again. Thanks! Yes, I'll share it with you. (Rrrrrrrip! Chomp!)

Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:46:28 (PST)

k9diabetes
11-24-2009, 08:47 AM
That's a great picture of Kwali and Dr. Amanda... :) She looks so happy... they both look really happy actually.

I'm glad that you are managing and that Kumbi has taken it in stride.

Heck yeah, I say go for 20. We never really thought Chris would manage 14+ with all his heart ailments but he always had a very strong will to live. I am sure that he would never have gotten past his first six months without it.

Natalie

Patty
11-24-2009, 09:39 AM
Carol,
What a sweet picture! :)
Patty

CarolW
11-25-2009, 08:33 PM
Natalie, and Patty,

I'm delighted you like the picture of Dr. Amanda and Kwali. I think it's a wonderful picture. It's VERY characteristic of both! That was perhaps 20 minutes before Kwali died, at the loving and gentle hands of Dr. Amanda - huge relief from really serious pain that couldn't get any better.

I took two pictures, with Dr. Amand'a permission. In the other one, Dr. Amanda is looking down at Kwali. It's also a nice picture, but the one I used has greater strength and presence to it, for both living creatures.

You know how it is if somebody asks you to smile when they're about to take your picture? Well, I asked Dr. Amanda to smile, even knowing how it is - and she did! I was amazed she could put on such a nice smile on request - she must have been thinking of Kwali, and what a generally smiling dog Kwali always was.

Kumbi says he has numbers of pages and pictures to add to the series there. He says, though, it will take him time.

Meanwhile, we are learning to live without Kwali physically present with us. We both do miss her. I'm so thankful Kumbi isn't grieving unduly - I would go mad!

And because I MUST care for Kumbi (which, of course I do, with all my heart), that keeps me going.

These days, it's all wet around here - my tears wet a few tissues, but they are more than adequately reflected in various showers and downpours outside!

So Kumbi gets to wear his old, old raincoat quite often now. We're working on getting him a new one that will fit better and isn't so worn out.

Thanks to all of you for your comments, and condolences, too. I feel I have come to know some of you-and-your-dogs, and I must say, it is a pleasure.

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:32:05 (PST)

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom
11-26-2009, 04:20 AM
Carol - You are an amazing writer that can put forth so much emotion in words. Thank you so much for posting your thoughts on this journey and life in general (even though they do make me cry ;)).

Here's to a great dog mom - HIP HIP HOORAY!

Tami & Soaphalupagus

CarolW
11-28-2009, 08:09 PM
Carol - You are an amazing writer that can put forth so much emotion in words. Thank you so much for posting your thoughts on this journey and life in general (even though they do make me cry ;)).

Here's to a great dog mom - HIP HIP HOORAY!

Tami & Soaphalupagus

Oh, Tami, thanks so much for your comments. It's not all THAT difficult for me to pour things out in words, just because I've been doing it all my (fairly long so far) life, so I'm used to it, and there are people who say, often with reason, "You talk too much." And they call me Big Mouth, often enough. I think that's an accurate characterization. But here, we are allowed to talk a lot!

I GATHER YOU GOT YOUR JOB, Tami! Huge congratulations to you! Now Soaphie will have her needs met with a lot less worry!

Here it is, a few daze later, and my grief doesn't change - because it's so slow - and Kumbi goes along, day to day, coping with the wet weather, with his raincoat Quite Falling Apart! I keep working on more ideas to get a good one made for him; believe we will get there eventually.

We COULD, though, use a little sun; it poked out for a time yesterday, so we went and had a couple of walks in weak sunshine, for a change! Today, it's back to rain again. Kumbi's head gets wet. I dry it a bit after we get back in!

We're just through our supper routine, and it's shot time now, so off I go to measure the dose, thinking of all our diabetic dog buddies here on the forum.

Keep us posted on Soaphie and you!

Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:55:33 (PST)

peggy0
11-29-2009, 05:28 AM
Oh Carol,

I'm so sorry to hear of Kwali's loss. I missed it somehow. The pictures are so sweet. They are precious dogs. God bless you and kumbi in your grief

CarolW
11-30-2009, 09:17 AM
Oh Carol,

I'm so sorry to hear of Kwali's loss. I missed it somehow. The pictures are so sweet. They are precious dogs. God bless you and kumbi in your grief

Peggy - thanks for your condolences. Sometimes I'm surprised that my grief remains so intense - it waxes and wanes. doGNess knows, I have too much experience in losing animal companions!

We ARE coping, though. Kumbi is a huge help.

Not surprising you missed it, Peggy - since Kwali wasn't diabetic, I posted on Everything Else, instead of here! But am now posting here in our thread, because it is Kumbi whose life is changing in some ways!

We are, though, pursuing our usual consistency in mealtimes, injection times, as far as possible. Kumbi's insulin dose hasn't changed for a long time; he's on 6.75 units of Novolin-NPH insulin - and very stable, and I measure his meals, and feed to the minute, 12 hours apart - and inject 30 minutes later - again, to the minute!

That to-the-minute business isn't necessary, but it helps ME stay organized. I have my computer on practically all the time, and use my Calendarscope program to keep me on track. But it's often said, by knowledgeable people, that you have a window of an hour either way, for mealtime and injection-time.

Another feature with Kumbi is, he likes his food, and is always hungry at mealtime, mornings included. I put a bit of his canned food on top of his kibble, and also, a bit of yogurt. So Kumbi makes my life easy.

(Another ramble from me; oh, well! - just call me Big Mouth.)

Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:15:53 (PST)

peggy0
11-30-2009, 06:16 PM
i'm like you carol. Every 12 hours and then 30 minutes later, the shot. like clockwork :) I'm glad you have Kumbi to grieve with as I know how hard it is to lose pets as well. I've lost several and it never is different and still I continue to bring them into my home. They are my joy

CarolW
11-30-2009, 08:40 PM
i'm like you carol. Every 12 hours and then 30 minutes later, the shot. like clockwork :) I'm glad you have Kumbi to grieve with as I know how hard it is to lose pets as well. I've lost several and it never is different and still I continue to bring them into my home. They are my joy

Same here, Peggy. This is something we are likely to face all our lives - because we INSIST on adding more when we lose some! Well, I'm not likely to add another till I lose Kumbi, largely because I really can't afford to, but also, Kumbi seems very happy to be an only dog for now, and I wouldn't ask him to adapt to having a new, younger companion.

When I lose Kumbi, I risk going totally MAD, so will then be quickly searching for another! Should find good leads in my area, through my vet and local rescue organizations, maybe even Kumbi's breeder, who sometimes has dogs to place.

It's nice to know that, apart from my very tough money problem, I could take a diabetic dog! Widens my choices! And there's something very special about caring for (any pun intended) a diabetic dog. The bonds we develop are nothing short of miraculous.

Of course, I'm planning on having Kumbi reach age 19 or 20 [grin]

Mon, 30 Nov 2009 19:37:56 (PST)

CarolW
12-19-2009, 12:57 AM
Surprising high BGs - well, this happens from time to time; we never know why!

Monday last, I ran a curve on Kumbi - just gorgeous - in SHAPE! Lovely smiley shape. Simply on the high side to say the least. I'd been wanting to run a curve for a long time, but Life Happened - one thing after another - infections, or being on antibiotics, and my vet says it's pretty well useless to run a curve (at least, for the purpose of determining a dose change) in tne presence of infection or when on antibiotics.

So finally, we got Kumbi in great shape.

But Kumbi has been drinking more water this week, especially, yesterday and today. I postponed the authorized change in dose (Novolin-NPH insulin; I had Kumbi on 6.75 i.u. twice daily - to 7.25 i.u. twice daily) till I could be home with Kumbi to watch him.

Well, I started the new dose this morning, on the LAST day of his current vial - actually, Day 36, when usually I run only 35 days - but I'd dropped the previous vial two days before I was to retire it, and thought I could squeeze one extra day out of the current one.

Wouldn't you know; I felt a bit of dampness on Kumbi's hair after the morning shot. I thought I'd gotten MOST of it in; if any was on the hair, it was very little.

But today, especially, late, Kumbi drank more and more water. He's not having ANY problems eating.

No sign of ketones.

We are NOT getting his accustomed exercise, and perhaps a lot of the problem is that, because Kumbi tends to drop around 5 mmol/L (100 mg/dL) on a walk - twcie a day. The last couple of days, what with weather and other stuff, we've only gone once a day, and for some days before that, only for a few minutes at a time, because it was so dratted cold. (Warmer now, thank goodness; I hate cold!)

Kumbi was restless after his supper and shot tonight. Rats. He continued restless. Drinking water again, too.

So finally, I took a BG reading. Wow; he was high!

Here are this evening's readings:

20:16 - 29.7 mmol/L = 535 mg/dL
21:32 - 30.2 mmol/L = 544 mg/dL
23:28 - 26.3 mmol/L = 474 mg/dL

I haven't seen high readings like that for a very long time on Kumbi.

Guess we'd better shape up - perhaps with the exercise, or maybe my current insulin vial had lost potency; I don't know. Because Kumbi has started down, I feel safe going to bed now. I don't foresee anything like rebound, in current conditions.

I open a new vial in the morning. Along with increased dose (increase of half a unit per shot, a full unit per day), I'd better keep an eye on things.

At the same time, I'll be assisting a friend who is doing her first curve ever on her newly-diagnosed dog - that, long-distance, by email.

So tomorrow will be a busy day, so I'm off to bed. I guess I'll do a check or two on Kumbi tomorrow!

Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:53:12 (PST)

CarolW
12-19-2009, 03:35 AM
Update:

Today:

02:04 - 27.3 mmol/L = 492 mg/dL

Guess I'll be running more checks. At least through fasting in the morning; then maybe one or two more.

Sat, 19 Dec 2009 02:35:33 (PST)

ladysmom06
12-20-2009, 06:06 AM
Hi Carol,

Sorry:(:( Kumbi has been having some high readings. How is Kumbi doing today? Hoping you get it all sorted out soon. Hugs to the two of you.

CarolW
12-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Hi Carol,

Sorry:(:( Kumbi has been having some high readings. How is Kumbi doing today? Hoping you get it all sorted out soon. Hugs to the two of you.

Hi Lynne - and All,

Yep; we're getting it sorted out. I do believe Kumbi's high BGs were a result of fairly extended decline in exercise; as I think about it, it's been going on for several weeks, in inclement weather.

Also, checking my afternoon-snack feedings, which I began while Kwali was still alive, I discovered that it was a bad idea just to dump a small handlful of kibble into the little soaking-bowl. I thought I was estimating 20 kibbles accurately. NO! - it was over 30 kibbles!

Kumbi does NOT need that much! And I'm cutting it back to 10, anyway, as that's surely all he needs, unless we happen to have a particularly strenuous walk! We could go up to 15 or so on such days.

I continued the testing a bit, yesterday, just to make sure Kumbi was coming down a bit.

Here's the report I sent to my vet:

Summary of SPOT CHECKS
Friday 18 Dec 2009 through Saturday 19 Dec 2009

Kumbi, 13 year-old Australian Terrier, m/n, dx 1 Sept 2006
Weight 8.7 Kg (19.2 pounds) at last weighing (couple of weeks ago - weight has been stable recently)
Insulin: Novolin-NPH
Meter: OneTouch Ultra2

Food: twice daily, at 6:30 and 18:30
Insulin: twice daily, at 07:00 and 19:00

Weather: cool (6 degrees C = 43 F), damp, only light winds

Kumbi had had only one walk on Friday 18 December, earlyish morning.
Two walks today (Saturday 19 December 2009), approximately 30 minutes each.

Previous data: BG Curve, Mon 14 Dec 2009;
Dr. Amanda approved dose change from 6.75 to 7.25 units twice daily

DOSE CHANGE implemented Fri 18 Dec 2009; might have missed a bit of the morning injection, but I believe if so, only a drop or two at most.

Old vial of insulin was 36 days old.
Fresh vial begun Sat, 19 Dec 2009, 06:59

Ketones negative on Friday 18 December 2009, 21:35, on expired strips.

Friday, 18 December 2009

20:16 - 29.7 mmol/L = 535 mg/dL
21:32 - 30.2 mmol/L = 544 mg/dL
No ketones (expired strips); 21:35
23:28 - 26.3 mmol/L = 474 mg/dL

Sat, 19 Dec 2009 02:04

02:04 - 27.3 mmol/L = 492 mg/dL
06:26 - 25.1 mmol/L = 452 mg/dl
Breakfast, 06:28
Insulin, 06:59 - 7.25 i.u. of Novolin-NPH insulin
(new dose yesterday; new vial today, 19 December)

Readings to show drop in BGs on exercise

08:24 - 25.3 mmol/L = 456 mg/dL
WALK, 08:30 - 09:00, low excitement
Kumbi trotted out well, not tired.
09:04 - 21.1 mmol/L = 380 mg/dL

Other readings, Sat 19 Dec 2009

14:33 - 16.7 mmol/L = 301 mg/dL (somewhere around insulin peak time)
18:26 - 20.2 = 364 mg/dL (fasting)

End report

I see I forgot to mention the afternoon snack. Also, I decided I had NOT done a fur-shot Friday morning, because Kumbi's hair was damp from being outside! And when I sniffed my fingers, they didn't smell of insulin.

I'm not testing today, because Kumbi stresses a lot when I test. His water consumption is down to approximately normal, we had two good walks yesterday, and one good one and one short one today (during which we got wet). Kumbi's water consumption is quite an accurate measure of his BG levels. At least, high ones.

And we're in Day 3 of his new insulin dose (up from 6.75 units of Novolin-NPH insulin to 7.25 units). You can believe, I use the syringes that have half-unit markings on the barrels! Lovely, lovely, 31-gauge needles, so delightfully thin - and bendable, haha - and short! 8 mm (5/16 inches).

Lucky that Kumbi doesn't mind his SHOTS in the slightest! Only BG readings.

Kumbi has been checking up on me today, listening for cues like me unzipping the meter case, or snapping open the vial of test strips. He stands in front of the dog door, ready to disappear. Then when I sit down again at the desk, he goes back to his Favorite Sentry Station bed, which is in the Middle of Everything, and has a one-eye (ear, nose) open snooze.

Naturally, I'm watching him still, and will continue to do that, and test if I'm concerned.

But it seems we're past the Nasty High BGs stage. Whew!

Thanks for your gracious concern!

Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:36:48 (PST)

CarolW
12-20-2009, 06:02 PM
I see I omitted to post Kumbi's curve, so here it is, from Monday 14 December, 2009. I'm omitting the excruciating detail at the end, since it doesn't add anything especially significant.

Notes, Monday, 14 December 2009; 07:13:51

Kumbi BG Curve (way overdue, but we were waiting till Kumbi is off antibiotics and infections!) He finished his 24-day course of antibiotics on 2 December, 2009 (Baytril and Clavaseptin, for infected left anal gland).

Left anal gland looks good now.

Last weight taken at Saseenos Vet; 8.7 Kg, about two weeks ago.
Weight has been very stable all along.

Weather - cold - around freezing; wet/flurries expected moderate winds

Meter: OneTouch Ultra2

I include U.S. measurements for benefit of my U.S. friends.

SUMMARY

06:30 - 17.4 mmol/L = 314 mg/dL
Breakfast: 06:31
07:00 - 23.1 mmol/L = 416 mg/dL
INSULIN 07:01 - Novolin-NPH, 6.75 units
Food 07:01 - 2 tablespoons Medi-Cal Fibre Formula, canned
09:01 - 20.4 mmol/L = 368 mg/dL
WALK 09:53-10:20 = 27 minutes; moderate excitement
11:01 - 15.4 mmol/L = 278 mg/dL
13:04 - 15.7 mmol/L = 283 mg/dL
WALK 13:40-13:57 - 17 minutes, high excitement (walk with another dog)
FOOD - 13:59 - about 20 soaked Medi-Cal kibbles
15:01 - 16.4 mmol/L = 296 mg/dL
17:00 - 17.4 mmol/L = 314 mg/dL
18:31 - 17.7 mmol/L = 319 mg/dL
(Supper - 18:32)
(INSULIN - 19:00 - 6.75 units Novolin-NPH)
(FOOD - 19:00 - 2 tablespoons Medi-Cal Fibre Formula canned)

COMMENTS:

Kumbi has typically, the last while, been lowest in BG levels around 3 in the afternoon, but that's also the best time to walk him, so I've been giving a snack of about 20 soaked kibbles somewhere around that time, either before or after the walk (and coordinating with Kwali and her needs, till Kwali died on 3 November, 2009).

On walks, Kumbi typically drops, sometimes as much as 5 mmol/L. The afternoon kibble seems to prevent a real low.

Again coordinating with Kwali, I began feeding a fair bit of his canned food at the same time I gave insulin - that is, 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. I feed a cup of Medi-Cal Fibre Formula kibble, with a few bits of the canned, at 6:30 a.m. and p.m., along with a heaping teaspoon of 0% fat yogurt. (Began that after Dr. Julia started us on various antibiotics, and have kept it up.)

Kumbi's weight has been stable at 8.7 Kg most of the time, the last few months.

Excruciating detail follows.

READINGS AND EVENTS
in excruciating detail

Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:46:10 (PST)

k9diabetes
12-20-2009, 06:35 PM
I think you would have smelled the insulin right away if you gave a fur shot. Maybe I'm especially sensitive to the smell but even a small amount seemed to me to just reek! I never liked that smell...

Didn't Kumbi come off of antibiotics recently?

Natalie

CarolW
12-20-2009, 09:56 PM
I think you would have smelled the insulin right away if you gave a fur shot. Maybe I'm especially sensitive to the smell but even a small amount seemed to me to just reek! I never liked that smell...

Didn't Kumbi come off of antibiotics recently?

Natalie

Yeah; likely I would have smelled it; it is certainly distinctive - and I agree, rather horrid!

And yes; Kumbi finished a long course of antibiotics on 2 December. The curve test of 14 December, then, was a couple of days short of two weeks since he came off the antibiotics.

Kumbi continues more comfortable this evening. He's playing, but also, telling me, Mum; it's bedime. Come cuddle with me.

Okay, Kumbi, I'm coming, I'm coming!

Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:55:44 (PST)

jestersmom
12-20-2009, 10:18 PM
I can always feel the needle prick the skin. I also touch right where I gave shot after injection. Once I smelled the insulin on my finger, I kinda knew I "missed" that time...I gave him another injection.

I also give that little "pat" to make the pain a little less, if not for him then for me.

CarolW
12-21-2009, 01:28 AM
I can always feel the needle prick the skin. I also touch right where I gave shot after injection. Once I smelled the insulin on my finger, I kinda knew I "missed" that time...I gave him another injection.

I also give that little "pat" to make the pain a little less, if not for him then for me.

I"m so glad you reward Jester for doing his part of the job! I do notice one thing you said that scares me some, so I'll remark on it; there's a page here that illustrates what I'm saying:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/checkspot.php

Vets say never to give a second injection because you can't tell how much insulin your dog may have received, even with a mostly-missed shot - a "fur shot," as they say.

On that page, scroll down just a bit to see what vets say - and then, there IS one situation, if you scroll down more - that shows when it really IS safe to give a second injection.

(It's when you can see that absolutely NOTHING went into the dog! - because ALL OF THE DOSE is still IN THE SYRINGE!)

So far, I haven't heard of anyone else having quite this situation, but possibly it has happened to others at times, too. No matter how unique I think I might be, I doubt I'm entirely so - and certainly, not entirely alone, especially, around here!

Thanks so much for your encouragement! And keep up the good work with Jester!

Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:26:42 (PST)

CarolW
01-19-2010, 12:56 PM
Two curves on Kumbi -

Mon 14 Dec 2009, and Sun 17 Jan 2010, with notes and comments, but omitting the extremely excruciating detail I report to my vet!

Basically, Kumbi has been mostly stable since we got him regulated sometime late in 2007.

He was diagnosed on 1 Sept. 2006. The following reports of two curves contain, I think, enough detail to evaluate his diabetic status quite well.

These reports are as I sent them to my vets, by email.

----------------------------------------

1) Kumbi BGs, Mon 14 Dec 2009

Notes, Monday, 14 December 2009; 07:13:51

Kumbi BG Curve (way overdue, but we were waiting till Kumbi is off antibiotics and infections!) He finished his 24-day course of antibiotics on 2 December, 2009 (Baytril and Clavaseptin, for infected left anal gland).

Left anal gland looks good now.

Last weight taken at Saseenos Vet; 8.7 Kg, about two weeks ago.
Weight has been very stable all along.

Weather - cold - around freezing; wet/flurries expected moderate winds

Meter: OneTouch Ultra2

I include U.S. measurements for benefit of my U.S. friends.

SUMMARY

06:30 - 17.4 mmol/L = 314 mg/dL
Breakfast: 06:31
07:00 - 23.1 mmol/L = 416 mg/dL
INSULIN 07:01 - Novolin-NPH, 6.75 units
Food 07:01 - 2 tablespoons Medi-Cal Fibre Formula, canned
09:01 - 20.4 mmol/L = 368 mg/dL
WALK 09:53-10:20 = 27 minutes; moderate excitement
11:01 - 15.4 mmol/L = 278 mg/dL
13:04 - 15.7 mmol/L = 283 mg/dL
WALK 13:40-13:57 - 17 minutes, high excitement (walk with another dog)
FOOD - 13:59 - about 20 soaked Medi-Cal kibbles
15:01 - 16.4 mmol/L = 296 mg/dL
17:00 - 17.4 mmol/L = 314 mg/dL
18:31 - 17.7 mmol/L = 319 mg/dL
(Supper - 18:32)
(INSULIN - 19:00 - 6.75 units Novolin-NPH)
(FOOD - 19:00 - 2 tablespoons Medi-Cal Fibre Formula canned)

COMMENTS:

Kumbi has typically, the last while, been lowest in BG levels around 3 in the afternoon, but that's also the best time to walk him, so I've been giving a snack of about 20 soaked kibbles somewhere around that time, either before or after the walk (and coordinating with Kwali and her needs, till Kwali died on 3 November, 2009).

On walks, Kumbi typically drops, sometimes as much as 5 mmol/L. The afternoon kibble seems to prevent a real low.

Again coordinating with Kwali, I began feeding a fair bit of his canned food at the same time I gave insulin - that is, 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. I feed a cup of Medi-Cal Fibre Formula kibble, with a few bits of the canned, at 6:30 a.m. and p.m., along with a heaping teaspoon of 0% fat yogurt. (Began that after Dr. Julia started us on various antibiotics, and have kept it up.)

Kumbi's weight has been stable at 8.7 Kg most of the time, the last few months.

(Yes, believe it or not, that excludes excruciating detail; haha!)


2) Kumbi BGs, Sun 17 Jan 2010

Sunday, 17 January 2010
KUMBI - BG curve
Purpose - determine effect of raised dose
of Novolin ge NPH insulin (isophane)
Raised dose on Friday, 18 December, 2009
from 6.75 iu twice daily
to 7.25 iu twice daily.
after BG curve of Mon 14 December 2009.

Meter - Kumbi II - new OneTouch Ultra2 meter

Weight - last weight at Saseenos, 8.8 Kg = 19.4 pounds

Weather - continuing cool, but not cold - light rain morning
overcast afternoon

7 degrees C at 07:24;= about 45 degrees F
11 degrees C (52 degrees F) at 13:30

Chart made with Open Office Calc is attached.

READINGS and EVENTS

06:30 - 15.0 mmol/L = 270 mg/dL
Breakfast, 06:31: 1 cup MFF dry; 2 tsp. MFF canned, heaping tsp. yogurt
07:01 - 20.6 mmol/L = 371 mg/dL
Insulin 07:01 - 7.25 iu of Novolin-NPH
Food - 07:01 3 tbsp. MFF canned
09:00 - 19.7 mmol/L = 355 mg/dL
09:01 treat 1/2 tsp. MFF canned
Walk - 09;06 - 09:35 (29 min); low excitement
Treat 09:36 - 3 soaked kibbles
11:01 - 16.2 mmol/L = 292 mg/dL
Treat 11:02 - 1/2 tsp. MFF canned
13:01 - 15.1 mmol/L = 272 mg/dL
Treat 13:02 - 1/2 tsp. MFF canned
Treat 13:27 1/4 tsp.fresh banana
(Temp outside: 11 degrees C = 52 degrees F
Walk 13:38 - 14:07 (29 min) - moderate excitement - met child and Dad on bike
Treat 14:08 - 3 soaked kibbles
15:01 - 11.9 mmol/L = 214 mg/dL
15:02 - Daily afternoon snack - 12 soaked kibbles (MFF)
17:03 - 12.3 mmol/L = 222 mg/dL
Treat - 1/2 tsp. MFF canned
18:35 - 18.2 mmol/L = 328 mg/dL
Supper instead of treat after reading
NOTE - HIGH STRESS on the last reading -
Kumbi was tired of pricks!

NOTES AND COMMENTS

EXERCISE: remarks on exercise.
Curve of 14 December 2009 was running quite high.
Kumbi's health had been improving, after a few infections
over the summer, also stress with Kwali's illness and death
on 3 November 2009.

He completed a 24-day course of Baytril 50 mg once daily and
Clavaseptin 125 mg twice daily on 2 December 2009,
for infected left anal gland. (Had two of these infections in 2009,
after more than a year without any.)

In the month preceding the previous curve (of 14 Dec. 2009),
Kumbi had had limited exercise. Normally we do two walks a day,
in summer, 30 or 40 minutes, sometimes over an hour.

But in November 2009, we often had only one walk a day,
with rainy weather, and occasionally, none.

Since the curve of 14 December, I've made special efforts
to get Kumbi out for two walks a day, despite rain. Have mostly
succeeded, with the usual walk lasting 30 minutes in the morning,
20 to 30 minutes in the afternoon. Rarely, we had only one walk
a day in the month before the current curve (today).

Kumbi can easily drop up to 5.5 mmol/L (100 mg/dL)
in a 20 to 30-minute walk - depending partly on
excitement level. See his BG curve chart for
31 May 2009, here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bgcharts8.php

Notes on feeding

In Kwali's last months, I took to feeding the dogs mostly
just kibble at breakfast, then feeding them canned food
30 minutes later, just after Kumbi's insulin injection.

I've kept that up ever since. Kumbi likes the routine.
He hasn't lost his appetite, and hasn't vomited his meals.
In short, he's very stable with his eating and digestion.

I added the yogurt after Dr.Julia suggested it last August (2009),
and have kept it up ever since; Kumbi doesn't adore it, but eats
it anyway. I put it on his kibble, twice daily, one heaping tsp.

Sun, 17 Jan 2010 20:20:54

-------------------------------------------

I see a note in my web mail (my download-mail isn't working at the moment - a server problem on my ISP) from Dr. Carla, saying the raise to 7.5 units is fine. A good thing, as I did raise Kumbi to 7.5 units, twice daily, Monday morning (yesterday). Kumbi is looking great. My vets do absolutely everything possible to avoid hypo. I think that's good policy.

I have a rudimentary chart of these two curves, here:

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/album.php?albumid=111&pictureid=635

It's interesting to see the slight wiggle-room under the last half of the two curves. Also, the FIRST half matches fairly closely. I think the dropped second-half is partly the raised dose (from 6.75 to 7.25 units of Novolin-NPH insulin, and partly my careful attention to getting Kumbi better daily exercise, more like what he would usually get in better weather.

Though I'm really confident in my ability to adjust Kumbi's insulin dose in the absence of any complications, I ALWAYS consult - or report to - my vets. This is the first time I've ever raised Kumbi's dose without waiting for my vet's approval. I did once CUT his dose, when he showed an unexplained low, of 3.8 and 3.9 mmol/L (68 and 70 mg/dL respectively), on the evening of 8 June, 2007. See how that sticks in my memory! That was the only time ever he showed such a low!

Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:53:18 (PST)

k9diabetes
01-19-2010, 11:32 PM
It's good to see he came down a bit now that he's feeling better. Time for him to have a stress free new year - no more nasty infections!

Natalie

CarolW
01-20-2010, 04:40 AM
Natalie - thanks for the stress-free wishes! Of course, no stress, no life; there's good-stress, and bad-stress - and both have similar physiological effects!

But I agree with you; no (bad-) stress in the year to come, I hope! Kumbi talks a lot, and stays near me most of the time, which makes my life caring for him relatively easy.

Even without Kwali, who always came running at Kumbi-shot-time, he comes for his shots (I wonder why! - ha!)

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/inject.php

(scroll down halfway to "Wrong Dog")

Vets want a curve in another month. Typical of my vets. No rush - take several weeks to determine the effectiveness of a dose-change. Of course, the change is only a quarter-unit this time. We've never changed by more than a half-unit at a time, on this powerful, U-100 insulin (Novolin-NPH).

You can bet, though, I watch Kumbi closely. I have Ketostix at hand in case I need them; Kumbi has never shown ketones, even at high BG readings, but there's always a first time. I trust, not to be!

My vets have several times commented on how good Kumbi looks, and attribute his good condition (apart from those infections last year) to the consistency of his life. It's easy enough for me, because, long-retired, I'm always at home.

Thanks for your interest, Natalie, and, speaking of consistency, let me say how deeply I appreciate your attention to this entire forum and site. Your dedication is clearly immense, and the forum benefits greatly.

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 03:34:08 (PST)

CarolW
02-22-2010, 06:20 AM
Kumbi's curve, 21 Feb 2010, as submitted to my vet last night

Kumbi - BG curve
Sunday, 21 February 2010; 06:51:50
Purpose - check on last dose raise, to 7.5 iu
of Novolin-NPH insulin (raised 18 Jan. 2010
from 7.25 units).

Weather: clear, cool, sunny
(high about 10 C - 50 F; low about 1 C - 34 F)
light to moderate winds

Meter: OneTouch Ultra2, "Kumbi II"
new meter used 17 Jan and 21 Feb, 2010

FOOD: MFF is Medi-Cal Fibre Formula.
Breakfast, 06:30 - 1 cup MFF dry, 1 heaping teaspoon canned,
1 heaping teaspoon yogurt (probiotic)

Supper, 19:00 - same as breakfast.

I'm now feeding 3 heaping tablespoons of
MFF canned immediately after Kumbi's insulin shots,
07:00 and 19:00.

Afternoon snack, 10 kibbles, now standard, around mid-afternoon.


READINGS AND EVENTS

06:30 - 16.9 mmol/L = 305 mg/dL
Breakfast: 06:34 1 cup MFF dry, 1 tsp yogurt; 1 tsp MFF canned
Food lure, 07:00: 1 tsp MFF canned
07:01 - 23.6 mmol/L = 425 mg/dL
Insulin - 07:01 - 7.5 iu of Novolin-NPH
Finish breakfast - 07:01 - 3 tbsp MFF canned
09:00 - 20.7 mmol/L = 373 mg/dL
Treat, 09:04: - 1/2 tsp. MFF canned
Walk - 09:55 - 10:30 (35 min) moderate pace, moderate excitement
Three kibbles on return from walk
11:00 - 13.3 mmol/L = 240 mg/dL
Treat - 11:04 - 1/2 tsp MFF canned.
13:01 - 14.1 mmol/L = 264 mg/dL
Bloody Meter! Blood ran down the back of the test strip!
Appeared not to get into the meter's works.
Tested meter with Control Solution it seems fine.
Walk - 13:32 - 14:25 - (53 min) slow to mod pace,
moderate to high excitement
Three kibbles on return
15:00 - 8.8 mmol/L = 159 mg/dL
Snack 15:01 - 10 kibbles (soaked)
(Kumbi resting)
17:00 - 7.0 mmol/L = 126 mg/dL
Treat, 17:01 - 1/2 tsp MFF canned dog food
18:31 - 7.8 mmol/L = 141 mg/dL
18:31 - supper
19:01 insulin, 7.5 units, Novolin-NPH


NOTES

Kumbi has been feeling rather good lately,
really stepping out on walks.

We had two unusually long walks today.
I believe their length contributed to the
unusually low numbers in the afternoon.
Kumbi drops about 5.5 mmol/L on walks, even
when they are shorter than they were today..

Kumbi has also been playing more in the evenings,
after his supper. He used to play with Kwali when
she was both alive and well, but hasn't played much
evenings till the last few days.

Sun, 21 Feb 2010 19:48:20

I also have a new page on my web site that shows half-done BG charts. I find the visuals are really helpful. But these charts show ONLY the curve data; nothing about food, exercise, nor insulin, and that makes them almost useless! Compare with the fuller charts on the site.

When I tried to put a link to the half-done charts page, the board appeared not to accept it, so I'll try again in a second post; it might have been just a temporary server-busy situation. Or maybe, it was something in THIS post that caused a problem! If so, I'll find out when I try to save this!

Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:19:18 (PST)

CarolW
02-22-2010, 06:28 AM
This is my attempt to link to a page with half-done BG curve charts for Kumbi, from December 2009, January 2010, and February 2010.

If the board software doesn't like it, this post won't go!

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bgstmp1.php

You'll need to scroll down, to see the charts in chronological order.

Numbers are in mmol/L ,the measurements we use in Canada. To convert to mg/dL, the numbers used in the U.S., I multiply by 18.02.

Here's hoping this post will go!

Mon, 22 Feb 2010 05:27:10 (PST)

Brankavinni
02-22-2010, 08:04 AM
Hey Carol,

I am not an expert (so I will wait for other more qualified people to give their opinion) but this looks amazing to me...I would love to get a curve like this with Vinni....so I think you guys did amazing much better than the last two curves that you did ....

So, keep up the good work and give lots of hugs and licks to Kumbi...

Love

Branka Vinni & Sasha

CarolW
02-22-2010, 09:27 AM
Thanks for your comments, Branka. You have learned so much yourself that I value your comments greatly.

I'll have to admit, I think Kumbi might have gotten into something the night before the curve - whatever it was, if he did, wasn't a lot, but those morning numbers were running slightly higher than they have on other curves - yet the afternoon ones were running lower than usual, possibly because of the extended durations of the walks. I really should try to chart these using my Paint Shop Pro, so I can put in visual stuff for food, insulin and exercise. Doing that makes the chart REALLY useful!

But it takes large amounts of time and energy to do that! All the same, I might tackle it.

If Kumbi hadn't started up again right before I gave him his supper, I would have taken another reading after his supper. But he did start up, so I let that fasting-reading be the last one for the day.

I could display Vinni's charts that I've sent you in the past, if you want; just let me know; it would be similar to the ones I pointed to in my previous post - curve only, no food, insulin nor exercise data. I'd just put up another page to do that - copy Kumbi's page, and then change the chart references so it's Vinni's charts instead.

Kumbi and Vinni share the characteristic of starting the day on the high side, and coming down till suppertime - on the other hand, Kumbi has at times had his low point in mid-afternoon, and come up before his supper.

The food spike is very typical of Kumbi. I don't worry about it, because it doesn't last long. Also, it tends to be lesser, as his life evens out and becomes more consistent, and I have the insulin dose (for the time being) just right for him. He still GETS the food spikes, but they're lesser.

The drops he gets from walks really are quite dramatic! Someday I'll again measure him just before, and just after, a walk; I didn't do that yesterday, but the general effect shows anyway. His chart from 31 May 2009 (on Coherent Dog) does show the relationship between exercise and Kumbi's BG drops.

I think your Vinni-curves look in many ways similar to Kumbi's - a bit on the high side so far, but quite consistent most of the time.

I'll be very much interested to see what happens with Vinni as things continue after his dental. It looks as though I'll get some help with finances (friends) for Kumbi's dental, so I'll be trying to arrange that, just as soon as I can; then we start curving again! And at least, spot checks - more than I usually do. (Hi, Eileen! haha!)

Don't know yet when Kumbi's dental will be.

Glad you dropped in on our thread, Branka! Thanks!

Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:25:49 (PST)

eileen
02-22-2010, 11:04 AM
Oh Carol, silly you. You do know how much I believe in staying on top of testing.

The walk sure appears to be dropping Kumbi.
I'm so happy that you may be able to scrape together the money for the dental.
Mildred needs one too but I'm in the same boat as you, lack of funds.

When Mildred spikes after consuming a meal she stays up, this is why I use Humalog with her.

Can't wait to hear that Kumbi's dental is behind him (and you).

hugs,
Eileen/Mildred

CarolW
02-22-2010, 04:57 PM
Hi Eileen,

If Kumbi's food-spikes didn't promptly come back down, I'd try to do something about it, too. They've always come down, so far, anyway!

Hope you and Mildred are well, and that you can also scrape up enough for a dental for Mildred! It can be hard to do, and take a long time!

The scraping-up, that is!

Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:57:05 (PST)

Noodle
02-22-2010, 11:26 PM
Looks like Kumbi responds very nicely to walks & his little snacks with those lovely afternoon and evening numbers. I'm glad to hear he has been feeling more playful. :)

You just never know what they might find as a secret snack at night. Noodle walked into the kitchen this week and I turned around when I heard a loud crunching sound, but only fast enough to catch the big, dopey grin on his face. We hadn't eaten anything at home that day, but I had been cutting the ends of a huge bunch of flower stems prior to putting them in the vase. I thought I had managed to grab all of the ones that hit the floor. I wonder how many carbs are in thick, crunchy flower stems, lol. :rolleyes:

Patty
02-23-2010, 10:15 AM
Hi Carol,
It is nice to be able to compare curve shapes. This one did have more of a downward trend. But like you said, the walk easily can contribute to that. It's good information to have. Knowing how far he can drop gives you a good idea how much of a snack to give, especially if he usually starts lower.

Very nice :D
Patty

CarolW
02-23-2010, 12:30 PM
Oh, Patty; thanks for your comments! Yeah - if you look only at the MORNING numbers on that curve, it's tempting to raise the insulin dose. But one look at the afternoon numbers, and I say, HOLD IT! Not much wiggle-room there!

We haven't been on 7.5 units (Novolin-NPH) for all that long - just barely over a month. I'll do another curve in about a month, and see whether the morning remains on the high side, or whether perhaps Sunday's highs came about because maybe Kumbi got into something. He does run freely in the garden; hmm. Maybe I should follow him around out there!

One time, Kumbi got into a nest of new-born rabbits. Mama Rabbit was NOT smart to bear her litter inside my fenced yard - I saw her escape under the gate. One of my greatest buddies, a wildlife expert, told me she'd have another litter before very long - and it wouldn't be in my fenced yard! But Kumbi ate several of the newborns. Yikes!

This time, I don't think it was anything like that, though one never knows.

Meantime, I'm working on charts; hoping to learn to produce the ones that contain food, insulin, and exercise information along with the BG numbers, in ways that are graphically clear. There are several little tricks to doing it, some if which I need to cook up. I'm working on it.

I'm very strongly visual - I can read from text okay - ha - I visualize the numbers as a chart!

But it's really easier to see if you actually do make a chart!

So, back to charting!

Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:27:10 (PST)

CarolW
02-24-2010, 11:15 PM
Mum - you sure were GLUED to the computer today! Doing my charts!

Yeah, I know, Kumbi. I'm pie-eyed. I'm TRYING to get that information into your charts - you know, food, insulin, exercise - in some sort of legible way.

Well, Mum, it's not very legible, sorry. I can hear and smell that it's not very legible, since I can't really see it, this close up.

You're right, Kumbi. Oh, well. I put the charts up anyway. But I'll experiment and see if I can make them more legible. Wanna help me work things out?

Sure, Mum! I'd be glad to do any kind of useful digging for you. I'm a real digger, you know!

Why, so you are, Kumbi! And you have a GREAT nose and ears. Wonder if you can make appropriate toenail marks in just the right places on those charts.

Mum - I have painted in lots of sand and dirt, for well over 13 years now! So I'll work on it. Show me where to work!

Okay, Kumbi, here's where you can check out today's stuff.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bgstmp1.php

for the larger-size one, which is easier to see than

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bgstmp2.php

for the smaller-size one. But I really hope that together, you and I can work out a way to make these easier to read. Scroll down to see the other two charts on those pages; THOSE are easier to read - but they don't have the food, insulin nor exercise showing!

Well, Mum, the numbers across the charts are okay; it's obvious which are the Canadian measurements (mmol/L) - they're in green, and which are the U.S. ones (mg/dL) - they're in reddish-brown. Earth color! my color! And I love the green exercise stripes. But, Mum, the food and insulin notes just have to go. They just make a mess.

Okay, Kumbi, I'll see if I can figure out a different way to show those.

Good night, Mum. Good night, Kwali.

Good night, Kumbi! Good night, Kwali.

Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:11:18 (PST)

CarolW
02-27-2010, 11:21 AM
Hey, Mum! now that we're back from our walk, just in time to avoid getting rained on, I had a look at the latest charts. You still have one to go - the most recent one. They're looking quite a lot better, but I think you could make them even a bit more legible, if you keep working on it.

Thanks, Kumbi. We certainly do need those walks. Missed a morning walk a few days ago, and by evening, you were drinking considerably more water than usual, and that lasted into the next day. In short, when we miss a walk, your BGs go up.

Yeah, no kidding, Mum! Anyway, keep working on those charts. I see you put the first two up; now let's see the third one, okay?

Look here, Mum:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bgstmp1.php

By the way, Mum, you should add that extra information in the first chart, as well as the second - you know, my breed, and sexual status - I'm neutered, so I can hump anybody, any time, even tie with a female, and not impregnate her. Gosh; I miss Kwali. I never did tie with her, though; she would slide out and hump me!

Okay; Kumbi; I'll get to it. Thanks for the comments. Wanna take over in Paint Shop Pro, too? It surely would be a help!

You forgot something, Mum. I'm blind. I'd have trouble making those charts.

Oh, sorry, Kumbi! I do forget you're blind!

Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:19:51 (PST)

Patty
02-27-2010, 11:48 AM
Carol,
Your charts are looking good. You even converted for us :)
Patty

CarolW
02-27-2010, 02:33 PM
Hi Patty,

Thanks so much for your comment! Now the third chart is up as well, and I discover, as I mentioned to Marg, that I left out important data - which meter I'm using!

Won't be fixing that for a little while - too tired! Kumbi says, well, Mum, yeah, take a break and take me for a walk; it's not raining right now!

Okay, Kumbi - I'm coming! I'm coming!

Sat, 27 Feb 2010 13:32:55 (PST)

CarolW
03-12-2010, 10:12 AM
Clock changes! Standard Time to Daylight Time, and - for the Southern Hemisphere, vice versa! Here's a really useful link, for those facing a time change soon.

http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst2010.html

Most likely, you can find your country there. Most of us will face this change very soon; dates vary depending on where you live.

Kumbi and I (and Kwali too) have been doing this, in some way, for years and years. We're all biologically sensitive to time - circadian rhythms and stuff like that. But I got really finicky about it when Kumbi was diagnosed with diabetes, 1 September, 2006.

I bother to do this because it's normal for Kumbi and me to be right on schedule, within a minute or two, so KUMBI really notices differences of any amount. It's really not necessary to get this finicky. If you want, you can just change by the full hour when your clocks change. The only concern might be insulin overlap.

Other ways you can do it are to change by half an hour at a time, or do one change a day for a few days, or however you think your dog would like it, that you can manage!

For my dear buddy who asked (privately), you'll find your changes indicated under United Kingdom (all locations); reference city is London.

Changes for the UK are Sunday, 28 March, and Sunday, 31 October.

For those in Australia, there are differences in different places, and you can probably find that information on the page I put in a link to. Canada also has varied changes in different locations. I think even the U.S. has some variations.

Kumbi and I, in Western Canada, began our changes, changing by 15 minutes every three days, on Monday, 1 March this year; our change actually takes place on Sunday 14 March, from Standard to Daylight Time. Here, we change to Daylight time on the second Sunday in March, and change back to Standard Time on the first Sunday in November.

Australians who change will be going from Daylignt to Standard Time. The World Clock page shows that the dates vary quite a lot from place to place!

For you, Marg and Lucy:

On Sunday 28 March, 2010, Spring forward:

At 1:00 a.m., set clocks forward one hour to 2:00 a.m. - in the UK.

On Sunday, 31 October, 2010, Fall Back:

At 2:00 a.m., set clocks back one hour, to 1:00 a.m.

Kumbi and I are already changed! That is, the SCHEDULE - but the CLOCKS we don't change till the designated time!

I start on the Monday just short of two weeks before the scheduled clock changes.

I use my Trusty-Dusty-not-Rusty computer calendar program, Calendarscope (smooch!)

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/calendarscope.php

and I set it up as tasks (always do Kumbi's food and insulin that way), so when my Calendar beeps at me - and keeps beeping till I turn it off - USUALLY (when we don't have a time change), I feed at 6:30 a.m. and p.m., and give insulin at 7:00 a.m. and p.m. I have to do it by ticking off tasks; because I'm so absent-minded.

So, my daily feeding and insulin tasks look like this:

06:30 - feed Kumbi
07:00 - shoot Kumbi!
18:30 - feed Kumbi
19:00 - shoot Kumbi!

I edit those tasks, beginning the Monday almost two weeks before the change, and I change by 15 minutes, every three days, so Kumbi and I both have time to adjust to each change.

So, my schedules look like this, in the spring:

1-3 March 2010

06:15 - feed Kumbi
06:45 - shoot Kumbi!
18:15 - feed Kumbi
18:45 - shoot Kumbi!

4-6 March 2010

06:00 - feed Kumbi
06:30 - shoot Kumbi!
18:00 - feed Kumbi
18:30 - shoot Kumbi!

7-9 March 2010

05:45 - feed Kumbi
06:15 - shoot Kumbi!
17:45 - feed Kumbi
18:15 - shoot Kumbi!

10-13 March 2010 - (four days; we're now operating on Daylight Time)

05:30 - feed Kumbi
06:00 - shoot Kumbi!
17:30 - feed Kumbi
18:00 - shoot Kumbi!

Then from Sunday 14 March 2010, my schedules look normal again:

06:30 - feed Kumbi
07:00 - shoot Kumbi!
18:30 - feed Kumbi
19:00 - shoot Kumbi!

Of course, I DO have to change my clocks! My computer, happily for me, does it all by itself. But - I have to change the settings on my wall clocks, my wrist watch, in my car, on my Trusty OneTouch Ultra2 - and on my camera! Those machines have nothing so magic about them!

So I make those changes Saturday night before I go to bed - all except the car, which I change next time I get in it! I don't drive around much - no money for gas!

So, Marg, just for you and dear, wee Lucy:

If you like the three-day-at-a-time schedule, and getting to Daylight Time early, you seem to me to have it right:


6am
5:45am
5:30am
5:15am
5:am and the same at dinnertime


So, you'd start, say, 15-17 March, do change #2 on 18-20 March, #3 on 21-23 March, and on 24 March, the last one, which would put you four days early, ahead of the change!

I'm really impressed you got that right. I'm so dyslexic I get all mixed up about WHICH direction I'm going! But now I have it written down; that helps me!

And, of course, you can change the dates for your convenience.

Gads; have fun; haha!

Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:09:02 (PST) - my computer is still on Standard Time!

Patty
03-12-2010, 10:23 AM
But - I have to change the settings on my ...OneTouch Ultra2


Thanks for reminding me about my meter Carol :)

Margaret Boyle
03-12-2010, 12:20 PM
Thanks a lot Carol,

I have a constant reminder in my brain (spring forward fall back) I think that is how everyone remembers this.:)

My problem is if I do it every 3 days it means if I do it over 2 weeks, which would be this Monday at the end of the 2 weeks I am feeding Lucy at 04:30am and injecting at 05:00am:eek:

I may do it a bit later maybe the 2nd week, I will work it out. Perhaps 2 days at a time:rolleyes:

Lucy's normal time is Fed 05:30am Shot 06:00am.

I didn't need the time changes Carol as it is always in our calendars when the clocks change.;)

I do not want to upset her insulin as an hour is quite a gap, and I know she takes a wee while to get back on track, and like Patty's Ali I am not wanting overlap.:(

Thanks again Carol:D

Hugs to Kumbi

Marg

CarolW
03-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Oh, it's just great fun if you forget to change the date and time on your meter when you reach a time change to or from Daylight Saving / Standard Time.

Not!

Fri, 12 Mar 2010 14:53:16 (PST) - but Kumbi and I are now on PDT schedule. Now we wait while the clocks catch up with us, though we have to make that change manually, come Saturday night. Or, if I'm up that late, early Sunday morning!

CarolW
04-07-2010, 11:31 AM
Finally I raised enough money to plan for Kumbi's VERY badly-needed dental surgery. I've been trying for more than two years. This has now become urgent.

Kumbi was coughing quite a lot, mid-March. When I took him for a geriatric blood panel (23 March), I asked also for a vet exam. Our frequent locum, Dr. Julia Harrison, was on that day - hey, we lucked out! She said she hoped (me too) the coughing was from the dental infection; said his throat was a mess - sore! tonsils, too. Dr. Harrison always starts with the Western (allopathic) approach, but is also qualified in Traditional Chinese Medicine, homeopathy, and acupuncture, and she's currently completing her course in chiropractic.

Kumbi's blood work came back with raised liver values. This will delay the dental surgery, as anaesthesia with bad liver values is a considerable risk. Dr. Harrison put Kumbi on two supplements to work on his liver.

Liquid Hepato and it contains, per 2 ml:

Milk Thistle Extract (EMed-MT premium, providing 80% silymarin and 30% silybinin, 100 mg
Lethicin (natural source of phospholipids), 50 mg
Vitamin B1 (thiamine) - 5 mg
Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) - 5 mg
Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) - 5 mg
Pantothenic Acid, (calcium pantothenate) - 10 mg
Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin)) - 10 mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid - 5 mg

Kumbi's dose of this stuff is 1.5 ml every 12 hours, with food. So he gets 3/4 of the numbers listed, every 12 hours.

Now, the OTHER med he's on comes from Traditional Chinese Medicine. This is the one that apparently lowered Kumbi's BGs. I had NO IDEA how quickly this works, nor how thoroughly!)

It's called (according to the label) Chinese herbs: Wei Ling Ting Yu Mi Xu (1 ea[ch?]) I suppose that means the powder is half of each. Kumbi gets 1/4 teaspoon of the stuff with each meal.

A note on the label says please to monitor Kumbi's BGs, as this herb may affect the amount of insulin needed (the implication is, it may LOWER what is required).

I gave Kumbi his first doses of this stuff last night in food, just before feeding him. He's also on 125 mg of Clavaseptin, beginning a second 10-day course of it last night with his supper. (That's for his teeth-infections.)

Last night, I gave Kumbi his full usual dose of 7.5 iu of Novolin-NPH insulin - no way to monitor ahead of time what these meds would do to his BGs.

This morning, I took a fasting reading at 06:16. I feed at 06:30.
Fri, 2 Apr 2010 06:16 - 7.9 mmol/L = 142 mg/dL

That was a BIG surprise to me! Usually, Kumbi runs, say, between 12 mmol/L (216 mg/dL) and 20 mmol/L (368 mg/dL), even 22 mmol/L (396 mg/dL), or higher! at morning fasting. NOT this MORNING! That 7.9 mmol/L (142 mg/dL) looks more like his LOWEST reading of the day! - sometimes he's been a bit lower, but seldom by much.

So, FIRST, I'm glad I tested this morning - in effect, I'm planning to do the testing some of you do - both fastings, and a reading at estimated nadir (low BG of the day), which for Kumbi, varies from, say, around 3 p.m. to shortly before his supper. For the last half-year, I've been feeding Kumbi a little snack around 3 p.m., because though that's his low-time, it's ALSO by far the best time to walk him, with neighborhood conditions as they are.

Result of this SINGLE BG reading - I cut Kumbi's dose from 7.5 iu to 6.0 iu this morning. Guess I'm suddenly a numbers-chaser! The antibiotic causes BGs to fluctuate, in effect, invalidating BG readings. Well, make that CURVE readings. Individual spot checks are what they are! However, I just can't not-test him. I'm planning a curve for tomorrow, which will be effectively meaningless, EXCEPT that it will show highs and lows.

My vet is closed today so I can't check in with them. This is only the second time I've altered (lowered) Kumbi's insulin dose on my own! I'm very confident about doing it! Largely, because I can and will test his BG levels! - and of course, I've been getting a very detailed education on the k9diabetes forum. And always, from my vets.

A bonus to all this - WOW - I HOPE this stuff fixes up Kumbi's liver, so he can have his dental surgery! I cannot imagine him ever having a reading like that first thing in the morning, unless something unusual were affecting him! Well, DUH!

*** end paste ***

CarolW
04-07-2010, 11:34 AM
Kumbi's BGs since starting the liver meds (and continuing on Clavaseptin), with his supper, Thursday 1 April 2010.

Stuff that affects BG readings and insulin doses

Kumbi weighs 8.5 Kg (18.7 pounds).

Food: 06:30 and 18:30 daily - dry food (the dry food gives Kumbi food spikes; however, he comes down with the insulin that follows.)

Insulin: 07{00 and 19:00 daily - Novolin NPH insulin at current dose,
followed immediately by about 1/6 can of canned food
All food is Medi-Cal Fibre Formula (both dry and canned)
Kumbi gets one heaping teaspoon of yogurt (live culture) on his dry food.

Meds: I give meds immediately before feeding Kumbi at his mealtime.

Walks: Two walks daily as weather permits; usually around 30 minutes, ideally, early to mid-morning, and mid-afternoon.

Snacks: I "feed Kumbi's nadir," as he can drop BGs up to 5.5 mmol/L (about 100 mg/dL) on a walk. Sometimes he drops less than that. He gets ten soaked kibbles at three p.m., either before or after a walk; it seems to make little difference. Kumbi has never had a hypo.

BG readings and insulin doses, Friday 2 April 2010 - Tuesday 5 April 2010
with a little update to posting time, Wednesday, 07 April 2010.

KUMBI - BGs and insulin doses only, since beginning meds for his liver.

Friday, 02 April
06:16 - 7.9 mmol/L = 143 mg/dL
07:00 - 13.9 mmol/L = 258 mg/dL (INTERPOLATED from average, last 3 curves)
Insulin; 07:00 - 6.0 units Novolin NPH
14:55 - 6.1 mmol/L = 110 mg/dL
16:46 - 6.8 mmol/L = 123 mg/dL
18:14 - 14.6 mmol/L = 263 mg/dL
Insulin - 19:00 - 5.0 units Novolin-NPH (CHANGE from 6.0 units this morning)

Sat, 3 Apr
06:28 - 21.7 mmol/L = 391 mg/dL
Insulin, 07:00 - 5.5 units Novolin-NPH (up from 5.0 units last night)
14:54 - 17.7 mmol/L = 319 mg/dL
18:17 - 14.7 mmol/L = 265 mg/dL
Insulin - 19:00 6.0 units Novolin NPH (up from 5.5 units this morning)

Sunday, 04 April
06:15 - 13.8 mmol/L = 249 mg/dL
Insulin - 07:00 - 6 units (same as last night)
14:58 - 11.0 mmol/L = 198 mg/dL
18:25 - 25.6 mmol/L = 461 mg/dL
19:00 - 32.2 mmol/L = 580 mg/dL
Insulin - 6.5 units - up from 6.0 this morning
21:01 - 26.5 mmol/L = 478 mg/dL

Monday, 05 April
03:00 - 25.1 mmol/L = 452 mg/dL (pre-dawn)
06:19 - 19.2 mmol/L = 346 mg/dL (morning fasting)
07:00 - 25.2 mmol/L = 464 mg/dL *** INTERPOLATED from avg spike of 6.0 ***
Insulin - Novolin NPH, 7.0 units- 07:00 (increase from 6.5 last night)
09:01 - 24.5 mmol/L = 441 mg/dL (insulin +2 hr)
11:01 - 18.7 mmol/L = 337 mg/dL (insulin + 4 hr)
13:12 - 21.1 mmol/L = 380 mg/dL (insulin +6 hr approx)
15:01 - 18.4 mmol/L = 332 mg/dL (insulin +8 hr)
17:02 - 15.8 mmol/L = 285 mg/dL (insulin +10 hr)
18:33 - 16.1 mmol/L = 290 mg/dL (insulin +11.5 hr - evening fasting)
19:01 - 17.4 mmol/L = 308 mg/dL (insulin +12 hr, includes food spike)
(food spike - 1.3 mmol/L = 23 mg/dL)
Insulin - Novolin NPH, 7.0 units, 19:02

Tuesday, 06 April
06:59 - 21.3 mmol/L = 384 mg/dL
Insulin - Novolin-NPH, 7.0 units, 07:00 (holding dose)
15:01 - 14.0 mmol/L = 262 mg/dL
19:00 - 22.8 mmol/L = 411 mg/dL
Insulin - Novolin NPH 7.0 units, 19:00

Wed, 7 April
06:59 - 22.1 mmol/L = 398 mg/dL
Insulin - Novolin-NPH, 7.0 units, 07:00 (holding dose)

k9diabetes
04-08-2010, 11:38 AM
Hi Carol,

I had to find enough time to go through your entire post so didn't get to it until today.

Looks like you're almost back to the old insulin dose... with all the interactions of new meds and antibiotics and infection it seems like the picture is going to be pretty muddy for a while.

Sorry to hear about the liver values - how much were they off of normal? Hoping it was only minor.

Natalie

Patty
04-08-2010, 11:59 AM
Carol,
I do hope the meds help Kumbi's liver! When is he scheduled for a recheck?

Sore tonsils and throat from coughing...poor Kumbi, no fun :(

Patty

Noodle
04-08-2010, 03:17 PM
Poor Kumbi has had a lot going on lately. I hope his liver is able to heal and that once his cough is gone and his teeth are taken care of, that everything else can return to normal. :)

Margaret Boyle
04-08-2010, 04:19 PM
Carol,

Hope Kumbi is feeling better I am thinking about you.

Hugs to you and Kumbi

Marg

CarolW
04-09-2010, 12:57 PM
First, thanks to my very dear buddies here, for your replies. We're going along. Kumbi LOVES his meds! Hates Procedures, but is adapting to frequent Pricks from Mama Prick.

Here are Kumbi's out-of-range values, from
Kumbi's geriatric blood panel, Tue, 23 Mar 2010
------------------------------------------------------

Submission Date: 2010-03-23; 21:22:10
Completed Date: 2010-03-24; 03:29:12

exam and blood draw at Saseenos clinic
by Dr. Julia Harrison

Out of range values

BIOCHEMISTRY
Test Results Reference units
Glucose 11.0 high 3.0 - 7.0 mmol/L
Bicarbonate 16 low 17 - 24 mmol/L
Anion Gap 27.4 high 10 - 22
ALP 4630 high 10 - 150 IU/L
Verified
Chemistry run on a 2x dilution
ALT 264 high 5 - 60 IU/L
GGT 75 high 0 - 14 IU/L
Cholesterol 10.61 high 3.00 - 8.00 mmol/L
Glucose(Grey) 9.0 high 0 - 6.1 mmol/L


HEMATOLOGY
Platelets 446 high 170 - 400 x10E9/L

Hem Micro Comm*

Platelets were clumped; this will interfere with the accuracy of the
platelet count and underestimate the number of platelets present
Platelet numbers are adequate
Lipemic artifact is present in RBCs

Differential: % abs
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Eosinophils 17.0 1.564 high 0.000 - 1.231 x10E9/L

Comment:

presx diabetic dog adequate control gross mouth coughing
Chemistry sample is slightly hemolyzed and lipemic

[end report]

Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:45:41 (PDT)

CarolW
04-09-2010, 01:00 PM
Kumbi's BG readings from Wednesday 7 April thrugh now

Wed, 7 Apr 2010 07:00

06:59 - 22.1 mmol/L = 398 mg/dL
Insulin - Novolin-NPH, 7.0 units, 07:00 (holding dose)
15:02 - 25.3 mmol/L = 456 mg/dL
17:01 - 18.7 mmol/L = 337 mg/dL
18:30 - 17.6 mmol/L = 317 mg/dL
19:03 - 19.9 mmol/L = 359 mg/dL (food spike is 2.3 mmol/L = 41 mg/dL)
Insulin - Novolin NPH, raised 0.5 units to 7.5 iu, 19:04


Thursday, 08 April 2010; 07:29:41

06:31 - 17.4 mmol/L = 314 mg/dL
07:00 - 20.8 mmol/L = 375 mg/dL (food spike = 3.4 mmol/L = 61 mg/dL)
Insulin Novolin NPH, holding at 7.5 units, 07:01
10:54 - 17.1 mmol/L = 308 mg/dL
14:58 - 19.4 mmol/L = 350 mg/dL
17:01 - 18.4 mmol/L = 332 mg/dL
18:34 - 14.2 mmol/L = 256 mg/dL
19:00 - 16.9 mmol/L = 305 mg/dL
Insulin - Novolin NPH; 7.5 units; 19:01


Friday, 09 April 2010; 03:08:21

02:03 - 20.4 mmol/L = 368 mg/dL
06:31 - 16.9 mmol/L = 287 mg/dL
07:00 - 22.1 mmol/L = 399 mg/dL (food spike - 5.2 mmol/L = 94 mg/dL)
Insulin - Novolin NPH - 7.5 units; 07:01

I'm REALLY tired, after Hunt Day - going for a nap. Also, I'm working really hard on charting (Hi, Carolyn and Gretel) - learning more, gradually - that wears me out, too!

Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:00:26 (PDT)
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Patty
04-09-2010, 01:02 PM
Ok Carol, I'm curious...what's the difference between glucose and glucose (grey)? Also, did they list triglycerides since his blood was lipemic?
Patty

CarolW
04-09-2010, 01:32 PM
Patty - I have no idea! I didn't see a listing for triglycerides. Never heard of Glucose (Grey), either!

Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:31:21 (PDT)
going for that nap, before I wreck my computeroperations by falling asleep at the keyboard!

ozzi
04-09-2010, 02:43 PM
Carol,

The reference to "grey" in glucose (grey) refers to the tube that was used to draw the blood. Glucose can be drawn in a tiger-top tube (serum separator tube) or a grey-colored tube which contains sodium flouride to protect the integrity of the glucose in the blood by preventing red blood cells from metabolizing the glucose in the blood. Flouride inhibits glycolysis so loss of glucose does not occur in a grey-top tube. In general, grey top tubes are only used for transport of blood from a drawing site to a lab, and the serum separators are used for on-site lab testing where the blood is drawn and tested at the same location.

So the value associated with "glucose (grey)" just means the glucose value, and that it was drawn in a grey-top tube. Essentially the "grey" is just to document the tube it was drawn in, and there no difference between 'glucose' and 'glucose (grey)' as far as the number itself is concerned.

I didn't read your entire thread (due to time), but I noted that your dog was coughing and that the eosinophil count was very high. An eosinophil is a type of white blood cell, and an elevation of eosinophils often refers to an allergic process or possibly a parasitic infection. When the count is high, it can cause liver or spleen enlargement. I just wondered if all of this was connected? Did your vet mention the possibility of allergies or parasites? Has Kumbi had an ultrasound to see if she has liver cirrhosis? I apologize in advance if you already covered these topics, but as I mentioned, I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing yet. I just wanted to throw out a few thoughts that I had and clear up the glucose (grey) issue!

Kevin

Patty
04-09-2010, 03:22 PM
Thanks for the explanation Kevin. :)

CarolW
04-09-2010, 05:56 PM
Kevin! Fabulous post! Thanks SO MUCH for the information on glucose, and glucose (Grey).

You'll notice the two values are different, but I imagine the plain "glucose" value is incidental, a standard value, while, going by what you say, the "glucose (Grey)" is a specific measurement as would be done with a vet's lab machine.

I also appreciated your other remarks. We can schedule an ultrasound if need be, which we'd probably do after Kumbi finishes his course of meds to support his liver.

The BG-tracking I'm doing right now is to make SURE Kumbi doesn't hypo - and - with the reading I got right after his walk this afternoon, just after three p.m., I'm about to do another reading, which I'll tack on here, along with the other stuff since this morning.

Next week, Dr. Amanda Booth and Dr. Julia Harrison will get together to go over what is going on with Kumbi, and do some kind of planning.

Meantime, I'm beginning to feel a bit as though Kumbi is turning into a pincushion, though he's handling it well. (Marie and Bruno, take note!)

I must absolutely prevent a hypo; we'll see what readings I get in a few minutes, and then at fasting, and then pre-insulin this evening.

I'll post this, and follow up very shortly.

Fri, 9 Apr 2010 16:56:45 (PDT)

CarolW
04-09-2010, 06:30 PM
Here's my promised report for Kumbi's 17:00 reading:

Friday, 09 April 2010; 03:08:21

02:03 - 20.4 mmol/L = 368 mg/dL
06:31 - 16.9 mmol/L = 287 mg/dL
07:00 - 22.1 mmol/L = 399 mg/dL (food spike - 5.2 mmol/L = 94 mg/dL)
Insulin - Novolin NPH - 7.5 units; 07:01
15:06 - 9.0 mmol/L = 162 mg/dL (feed peak snack follwed; 15:08)
17:00 - 14.4 mmol/L = 259 mg/dL

The only good walk-time for us is around 3 p.m. Kumbi's nadir usually runs anywhere from 3 p.m. to right before his supper (18:30). Because I really can't get emergency vet care for him, I MUST prevent him from having a hypo, so I let him run with higher BGs than I'm necessarily really comfortable with.

Here's an amusing aspect to this: Kumbi is on those Chinese herbs, which COULD lower his insulin requirements, so I had dropped his dose quite sharply when, the day after I first gave the herbs, he was running much lower than usual. Then I began to raise the dose again, because he started running even higher than usual. More checking required, to make sure there's no rebound going on!

I think its pretty funny for me to half-panic at a mid-afternoon reading of 9.0 mmol/L (162 mg/dL). As Natalie has remarked, and Branka also (BrankaVinni), when you're used to high readings, getting nice ones can be scary!

Two more readings to come for today - p.m. fasting (about 18:30), and pre-insulin (Dr. Amanda wants those, and it's a good idea right now!).

Kumbi did NOT like being disturbed for the 17:00 reading; he went outside, stayed a bit, reluctant to come in - then finally, wanting to rest overcame him, and he's returned to his favorite indoor-Sentry bed, from where he can monitor all that I do!

Fri, 9 Apr 2010 17:29:07 (PDT)

overfiffty
04-09-2010, 07:05 PM
Dear Carol,

I am so sorry to read that you dog is sick. However after seeing some of his readings I just wish my Bruno was some where in that area. His sugar is still very high. Over 350 and every day we do a urine stick and it's never moved from +2000 with ketones in the negative. He's completely blind now and we have to lead him around. So far all the meds for the Cushings don't really seem to have done anything yet. But we are hanging in there. :o I shall do another curve tomorrow to see what his #'s are since I cannot do a curve while working. He just eats and sleeps. Not much quality of life anymore. He doesn't do anything just eats and sleeps can't go for walks because his hind legs are weak and he can't really see where he's going.

Doesn't even go near Starr to bug her. Enjoy your time with your four legged one. Bruno is just existing right now with what I can actually say is no quality of life. His back legs are still weak and he takes more medication than anyone in the house. I hope your doggie does a lot better and gets to a place where he was before becoming sick. Hang in there you certainly know a lot more than I do and I know you are doing an absolute great job.

Keep up the good work!!!

Marie and Bruno :)

CarolW
04-09-2010, 08:43 PM
Hey, Marie - thanks for your good wishes. Kumbi's BGs are just all over the place, which is what, it is said, happens when a dog has an infection or is on antibiotics - or, of course, both! Which is what is going on with Kumbi right now.

I nearly freaked this evening; see these readings:

Friday, 09 April 2010; 03:08:21

Insulin - Novolin NPH - 7.5 units; 07:01
15:06 - 9.0 mmol/L = 162 mg/dL (feed peak snack follwed; 15:08)
17:00 - 14.4 mmol/L = 259 mg/dL
18:32 - 22.3 mmol/L = 402 mg/dL
19:00 - 29.3 mmol/L = 528 mg/dL (quite a food-spike!)
Insulin - Novolin NPH - 7.5 units, 19:01

I might or might not take another reading this evening. Kumbi is definitely stressing over the repeated readings - getting up and going away now whenever I move, just about!

Better to run too high than too low, and I'm not really afraid he's going to drop to hypo level overnight, so I may just make do by keeping a very close eye on him, assessing how he's feeling.

Marie - I'll drop in on your thread, too. And try to check out your thread on the Cushings forum as well, if I don't fall asleep first - badly needing more sleep now!

At the moment, Kumbi seems to feel okay, and he's not drinking unusual amounts of water, so I'm tempted to think the BG swings really are the kind of fluctuation one gets with infection-with-antibiotics.

Catch you later!

Kumbi - glad to see you resting now! And thanks for your garden-song a few minutes ago - Garden-singing (barking) in the evening is a specialty of yours - and your throat seems better!

Fri, 9 Apr 2010 19:41:07 (PDT)

ozzi
04-09-2010, 08:58 PM
Carol,
You're doing a great job watching Kumbi! I have my fingers crossed that Kumbi's BG will be back on track very soon after getting rid of the infection and finishing the antibiotics. I really do understand how you feel about getting a normal reading when they have been so high! I got nervous on Ozzi's last curve when his insulin peaked and his BG was 188...not where I want to be, but just a little startled to see a better number!! It really can be scary sometimes to get what you ask for! Hang in there and I think Kumbi will be just fine. I'm worried about you though...you need to get some sleep! But I also understand the sleepless nights. When I increase Ozzi's insulin, I'm a wreck for the first 2-3 nights worrying about a hypoglycemic event. I'm glad you're such a great mom to Kumbi!!
Kevin

ladysmom06
04-10-2010, 06:35 AM
Hi Carol,

At the moment, Kumbi seems to feel okay, and he's not drinking unusual amounts of water, so I'm tempted to think the BG swings really are the kind of fluctuation one gets with infection-with-antibiotics

Sorry to hear that your having problems with Kumbi. Whenever Lady had an infection her bg's would rise but once the antibiotic started working she would get back to normal. Hoping that's all it is with Kumbi. Hugs to the two of you.

peggy0
04-10-2010, 10:55 AM
Hi Carol,

Forbin was the same. His went up for the entire time he was on the antibiotic and started coming down 2 days after he finished. Given that, i raised his insulin until he was done taking them. Hope Kumbi turns around quickly.

Dollydog
04-10-2010, 01:40 PM
Hi Carol, I check on you all the time but don't have anything to post. Hope things settle down for the two of you and you can rest. Take care,
Jo-Ann & my Dollydog angel :)

CarolW
04-10-2010, 10:37 PM
Dear k9diabetes Buddies All,

Last night's BGs on Kumbi were "interesting," in the sense of being NOT something I wanted to see. I resisted the temptation to take another reading after he hit 29.3 mmol/L (528 mg/dL) at 7 p.m., just before his insulin. WOW, I was tempted to take another reading two hours later, just to assure myself he'd started down again.

Which, probably, he did. But I'm working on graphing his readings, from the curve Monday 5 April, the many readings Thursday 8 April, and quite a few readings yesterday.

The increasing SLOPE of the readings yesterday afternoon is quite dramatic.

As I mentioned to Kevin in his Ozzi thread, I think, I believe what's likely happened is that Kumbi has become hypervigilant - he REALLY Hates Procedures and the pressure has been too great for him - so - up go his glucocorticoids. Those don't subside immediately; it takes a few days. It's stress that sets those off (at least, in this instance - I believe).

My purpose in testing so much is to avoid hypo - and I had no information from Dr. Harrison on what sorts of BG changes I might expect from the Chinese herbs, so no way to adjust my testing based on ANY kind of knowledge. I hope to learn more from her later.

One of my dearest buddies suggested to me this morning maybe I should take a break from the testing. Immediately, I recognized that as being an excellent idea. *IF* my guess is right, and Kumbi's BGs are climbing partly from an increased load of glucocorticoids, the more I test, the worse the glucocorticoids will get.

Going by Kumbi's ability to relax last night - oh; it was beautiful - I gave him a good brushing, sang to him (croaked is more like it, but he knew it was a song). He had just been garden-singing himself, enjoying his ability to use his voice some again He settled on his favorite Sentry-Point bed, and even did a back-roll, legs in the air. Anyway, going by that, I decided this morning it isn't worth pushing him so hard his stress hormones climb even more.

I DID test him just before insulin this morning - yep: running high:

07:00 - 27.5 mmol/L = 496 mg/dL

Then suddenly, today, I had a message from the clinic - Kumbi's next course of antibiotics was ready for me to pick up. So I popped Kumbi in the car, and made the drive. Since we would be at one of his typical nadir's about the time we arrived at the clinic, I took my OneTouch Ultra2 meter with me. Cheating, cheating!

15:02 - 27.5 mmol/L = 496 mg/dL

Yikes! Same as this morning! (But likely, there was variation between those two readings.) Because I don't believe Kumbi is rebounding (and my vet confirms this), and because he's running so high, I then decided not to test any more today; also, to forgo testing tomorrow, unless I become concerned.

Thanks for all your lovely posts! I don't know how much longer I'll be awake tonight - like to catch up reading, but might not make much progress!

Sat, 10 Apr 2010 21:36:12 (PDT)

CarolW
04-11-2010, 09:46 PM
I haven't tested Kumbi even once today. I'm in Test-Kumbi-Mode, but am resisting the temptation. He is NOT about to hypo - I believe! I discussed this briefly with my vet; she agrees; it's unlikely, but thinks it's okay to test at nadir-time. I'll keep an eye on things. For now, though, I plan to avoid testing as much as possible.

I managed to put together charts (I'm learning to use Open Office Calc - the spreadsheet - free program - never used spreadsheets before) of a curve and a couple of mini-curves from this past week - Kumbi's, of course.

(Also did one for Ron's Cutie, since he posted the numbers, elsewhere.)

Among Kumbi's charts, I personally think it's interesting to go from the "curve" (more like traversing the Rockies) of Monday 5 April to the mini-curve of Thursday 8 April - to the mini-curve of Friday 9 April - and - note the rise at the end of that last graph. It is magnificently (ugh) dramatic, and I think rising cortisol - stress-hormone - levels - are a possible cause for that rise. What's most dramatic is the increase in SLOPE (rate of rise). Gosh!

You can find my learnings (graphed) here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbibgstress.php#chart3

And Cutie's new chart, showing readings from Ron's new AlphaTrak and the vet's Freestyle meter, is here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/cutie2.php

Kumbi is sleeping ever so peacefully on his Sentry-Bed. *LI* am about to retire to Our Bed, where Kumbi will join me very shortly!

Good night, all, and sweet dreams to all Diabetic Dogs and their Human-Parents.

Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:44:19 (PDT)
zzzzzzzzzzzz

CoolGram
04-12-2010, 10:03 AM
Hello Carol & Kumbi,

I was just reading some of your recent posts and realized you've been having a bit of a rough time. So sorry to hear it. Carol, from just the little bit I know about you, I know without a doubt that you'll do everything possible to help Kumbi -what a lucky little fellow :)

I certainly am not knowledgable enough to add anything to what others have said, but just wanted you to know I'm thinking about you and hoping that it won't be long until Kumbi is feeling better and his levels are back where you want them to be.

Gretel sends a big fuzzy kiss Kumbi's way!

Carolyn

CarolW
04-13-2010, 12:35 AM
I've updated Kumbi's BG-Stress page, here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbibgstress.php

Didn't test at all today, and will avoid testing for a time.

Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:35:04 (PDT)

peggy0
04-13-2010, 06:03 AM
HI Carol

Read through your web page. I don't think Kumbi is going to hypo either based on these numbers. Hope he gets to feeling well very soon.

CarolW
04-13-2010, 04:19 PM
Hi Peggy - and Forum Buddies All,

Peggy - thanks for your observations. I agree; it hardly looks as though Kumbi is ready to hypo!

Here's a letter I sent to my vet this morning.

Kumbi was feeling a bit better yesterday, after I stopped testing his BG levels. He's feeling even better today, looking more like his old self. Rather than continuing to test his BG levels, I'm merely keeping a very close eye on him, including watching for clinical signs. His last BG test was this past Saturday around 3 p.m. (tested twice Saturday past).

He's trotting along happily on the walk, at a moderate pace. Yesterday he took in a lot of excitement, pursuing a cat in the our fenced yard in the morning (maybe 10-minute pursuit, and another half hour Sentrying for the cat, who apparently left the yard, thank goodness).

Then he got a whiff of the cat later, as we went to walk, but calmed soon.

Regular walks, in decent weather, twice a day; I'm continuing the liver meds (Hepato liquid and Chinese herbs), Clavaseptin (began the third 10-day course yesterday evening). Kumbi LOVES the liver meds, which I mix up with a bit of soaked kibble and feed separately just before his meal, to make absolutely sure he gets it all; I also wrap the Clavaseptin in a bit of canned food and feed that separately - same reason.

Maybe Kumbi's liver is beginning to improve; I hope so!

I'm holding him steady for the moment, at 7.5 units of Novolin-NPH insulin twice daily (that's also the dose I've had him on since 18 Janurary 2010), 30 minutes after I put his food down; I feed at 6:30 a.m. and p.m., and give insulin at 7 a.m. and p.m.

Things are looking up, I do believe! I'll keep you posted.

I BELIEVE his BG readings demonstrate how stressed Kumbi gets at testing; most especially, this past Friday (9 April) it shows on his chart, and also, Saturday 10 April, when I took only two readings - at 7 a.m. (27.5 mmol/L = 496 mg/dL) - high, but not wildly so for food-spike time - and at 3 p.m. (again 27.5 mmol/L = 496 mg/dL) - at Saseenos clinic, where I'd taken him to pick up his next course of Clavaseptin.

Perhaps that high reading at what is usually approaching his nadir for the day (3 p.m.) was the result of being in the clinic instead of at home. We also got a weight on him at that time - he was back up to 8.7 Kg, from his previous weight of 8.5 Kg, on 23 March 2010.

I'm updating his information in charts, here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbibgstress.php

and will continue to add to that page, or add new pages next to it.

It's nice to have something nice to report! Hoping things continue well!

Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:28:43 (PDT)

Kumbi continues well this afternoon. We're holding at that 7.5 units of Novolin-NPH. I'm preparing more charts, of the interim days between those that have more readings. Learning more about charting that way, too! Carolyn and Gretel, and Kevin, our expert Charter, take note!

(Natalie is just old-hand at this stuff; haha!)

I neeeeeeeeeeed sleeeeeeeeeep, so I'm off for a nap, to be awakened reliably by my Calendarscope! - in plenty of time to feed Kumbi this evening, and be awake for his shot!

Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:19:30 (PDT)

Patty
04-13-2010, 05:15 PM
Carol, I'm starting to worry about your sleep deprivation...glad you got a nap ;):D
Patty

CarolW
04-15-2010, 12:37 AM
Carolyn, I didn't get around to thanking you for your note, so I'll do that now! Patty, thanks for yours!

I'm still charting, but NOT doing additional testing, and, Patty, I'm grateful for you agreeing Kumbi isn't likely to hypo for the moment! He continues to look good. And I'm still short of sleep. And now late to bed.

But - I managed another kind of chart today; three series of spot-checks - three different days, to which I added indications showng the 30-hour power failure.

I cheated, though. The basics are in Open Office Calc. I pasted the chart from that into Paint Shop Pro (verion 12.5), where I had most of the added elements, like green rectangles for walks, blue lines representing insulin, orange-ish lines representing food, as well as titles, and readings in mmol/L and mg/dL - ready to go.

But charting spot-checks on three different days is new to me.

I managed to add an indicator for the power failure, by using Bezier curves in Paint Shop Pro's very peculiar vector drawing system. And I cut through the middle of the chart by masking off the part where I wasn't DOING readings - that is, showing a break in the X-axis that represents time. Which helps keep the thing more "accurate" in presentation.

But - something had to give, a little, to manage the three different sets of readings, and what "gave" was specific precision in times - to match the different days, I rounded off the times. Sometimes by a fair bit, such as, ten minutes or nearly 15 minutes.

And I couldn't show differences in exercise (walks) one day from the next; we're not completely consistent about that, especially in showery weather.

So in some senses, my new chart today is lacking!

Yet still, I think it gives interesting pictures of related stuff.

The chart begins "the morning after," that is, the morning after I started Kumbi on the Chinese herbs the vet said could change his insulin requirements. It continues through that day, and the next two, during which time I was changing Kumbi's insulin dose, sometimes, twice in a single day.

It became clear Kumbi wasn't getting enough insulin to keep any kind of tight control on his glucose levels!

My vet said I was doing okay with that, but added that Kumbi would likely run high for a little while - well, sure enough!

The chart is very crowded. If I had my druthers, I'd make it bigger; then it wouldn't be so crowded, but there are limits to size you can put on a web page and still keep it accessible to most browsers. Ugh.

I have so much to learn still, about charting, while still keeping the thing accessible to some extent!

Here's the chart page:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubginterim1.php

and I still have another chart-page to make (not to mention making the chart itself), to show the other interim-day series (another set of spot-checks, done between more complete sets of readings).

Geez - it never stops - so much to learn.

Anyway, this particular chart shows the changes in insulin dose, using only spot-checks, over a period of three consecutive days.

Guess I'd better go to bed, again with fervent thanks to all of you who make this forum possible, and all of you who participate. The longer I'm here, the more I realize no other forum can begin to accomplish, for my purposes, what I want to accomplish for Kumbi. And part of that is, I need to follow YOUR dogs; you others on the forum.

I can't think of better learning than what one can do here. Aided so greatly by Natalie as site-owner, and you moderators - Patty, Peggy, and any others. And ALL your contributions, you who are writing questions as well. Thanks, my buddies.

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:31:54 (PDT) and late to bed again!

CarolW
04-26-2010, 09:54 AM
I'm hoping to run close to a full curve today. We're having quite a time with Kumbi; my vet thinks maybe he has Cushings, and we're working on ruling that out.

I'll report in more detail later. I'm in a sweat; raising funds for the testing is difficult, but I must do it; and if he DOES have Cushings (I see no external signs of it); I REALLY can't afford the medication - he'd go on Trilostane - my vet's preference over Lysodren.

Somehow, I'll find a way.

Kumbi is doing his disappearing acts today; due for a test in about 5 minutes; then his morning walk. I'll be back with more reports.

Mon, 26 Apr 2010 08:54:37 (PDT)

ozzi
04-26-2010, 10:11 AM
LOL Carol.....all kids like to play hide and seek!! I'm picturing Kumbi searching out the perfect hiding spot!

I'll be looking forward to seeing the curve results later on, and hope they turn out well! If Kumbi does have Cushings, I know you will figure out a way to get the medication; and I also understand how difficult the financial aspect of these diseases can be.

Take care and I'll check in later,
Kevin

CarolW
04-26-2010, 09:46 PM
Ozzi, thanks so much for your encouraging note. I sort of finished today's curve, charted it, and it's visible here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgbetter.php

But we still have that evening soaring of glucose levels, and I don't know why. I now DOUBT it's the result of stress from too-many-pricks. Something else is going on, but I don't know what.

I'm noticing his spine is more prominent than it was, but his weight seems to be holding steady.

I might break down and do one more test this evening, around nine p.m., just to make sure his glucose has started down again after receiving insulin at 7 p.m. I really expect it has, though likely not very rapidly.

Puzzles; puzzles - and now *I* need a patience hat! Dear Kumbi; he is SO good!

Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:46:00 (PDT)

CarolW
04-26-2010, 10:33 PM
Kumbi can teach me about patience hats. He just lay there while I tested him again at 21:02. He'd started back down; coming, in two hours (following insulin) from 30.2 mmol/L (544 mg/dL) down to 27.3 mmol/L (492 mg/dL) - a nice slope to that.

So I think he's safe.

Mon, 26 Apr 2010 21:33:10 (PDT)

O'Riley
04-30-2010, 09:20 AM
CarolW....I'm not going to pretend I know what I'm talking about, but the 139 reading at 15:02....is it possible that if you tested every ten, fifteen or twenty minutes after that reading that it could have gone even lower, and that what you're experiencing is Somoygi? I learned of this possibility thanks to Natalie.

CarolW
04-30-2010, 12:25 PM
Hi O'Riley,

It does have some appearance of rebound, but with other readings on other days, and comparing what has been going on with Kumbi on those days - AND before he began taking the Chinese herbs (and I was warned please to monitor Kumbi's BGs while taking them, because his insulin requirements might change - with the implication they might be somewhat reduced), I can't say for certain it's rebound.

Kumbi has always dropped around 5.5 mmol/L (about 100 mg/dL) on walks - before Kwali, his constant walking-companion, died, 3 November 2009). Since then, he's tended to drop somewhat less on walks; I've measured a couple of times. Note the green rectangles on the charts; they represent walks.

Here are some other readings that I haven't charted:

Monday, 19 April 2010; 16:34:06

14:53 - 7.1 mmol/L = 128 mg/dL (typical nadir time)
16:01 - 7.2 mmol/L = 130 mg/dL (still quite low - hasn't changed much)
17:00 - 8.6 mmol/L = 155 mg/dL (climbing now)

Saturday, 24 April 2010; 15:09:54

06:30 - 10.1 mmol/L = 182 mg/dL
14:59 - 21.0 mmol/L = 378 mg/dL (COOKIE at mailbox on morning walk!)
18:29 - 14.6 mmol/L = 263 mg/dL


Sunday, 25 April 2010; 15:41:17

15:00 - 20.5 mmol/L = 369 mg/dL
18:31 - 15.1 mmol/L = 272 mg/dL

In effect, Kumbi's BGs are all over the place. This is why my vets have always said, don't bother to monitor when he has an infection and/or is on antibiotics. They say BGs fluctuate all over the place in that situation. So my monitoring, for the time being (he's still on antibiotics, and likely to remain that way for some time), is going to give relatively inconsistent results, compared to how Kumbi's BGs went before this infection set in.

My vets seem to be suggesting there's no reasonable way to interpret, apart from watching out to prevent hypo. THEY don't think it's something they would call rebound. Rather, they seem to think Kumbi's cortisol levels may be raised (possible Cushings).

We did try reducing Kumbi's insulin for a few days, beginning the day after he began with the Chinese herbs; see the three charts on this page:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbibgstress.php

Dr. Amanda and I discussed the dose-changes I was making, beginning on 2 April. She was quite sure it wasn't rebound, and suggested returning to his original dose level, after several days had passed, which I then did.

This is a sort of non-answer, but not through my intent! I'm wondering if Kumbi metabolizes the insulin rather quickly while he's on the Chinese herbs. And I don't see clinical signs that particularly suggest dropping the dose, either!

But - I am watching. Now I feel more like what "everybody else" who monitors regularly (daily) might do. That is, for the moment, I'm planning to take readings a.m. and p.m. at fasting-time, and then that mid-afternoon reading at ONE of Kumbi's typical nadir times. The others
are, later in the afternoon, and right before his supper.

Because Kumbi does stress with readings, even at home, I'm trying to limit how many I take. Every ten or fifteen minutes could, indeed, be very interesting! It might catch his reverse-direction time. But that one day I took readings at 3, 4 and 5 p.m. (uncharted, but listed here, 19 April) - what I think I saw was a nadir, followed by first a slower, then a faster, rise in glucose.

Scratching head! Thanks for your thoughts! It's always good to be thinking!

When I see a significant change, I'll report again. For now, even those soaring BGs in the evening appear to be, FOR THE MOMENT - typical. Yikes! But then Kumbi drops down again, after supper and insulin.

Whew!

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:20:42 (PDT)

k9diabetes
04-30-2010, 10:13 PM
Did you try reducing only the evening insulin dose?

He is on a dropping trend and is going pretty low around walk time... I don't think I'd be willing to rule out rebound in view of these curves.

If you could check him at three or four times between 2:45 and 4:15pm you might be able to catch a lower blood sugar if it's there.

Or just reduce the evening dose of insulin or skip a walk one day and see how that changes things. If it's there, though, it looks like it would be sometime between 3pm and 5pm.

Natalie

CarolW
05-01-2010, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the ideas, Natalie. It does look reboundish to me, and I may discuss it with my vets - again!

I just bought another hundred test strips, and they won't, now, last as long as they used to! Of course, being in Canada, I got another free meter with those - another OneTouch Ultra2, because I REALLY like these meters!

I may waste a few test strips taking samples from the meter I'm using currently (Ultra2) alongside the new one (Ultra2). That's not a calibration, but rather, to get an idea of how the two meters compare. Normally, I'd use one meter, the same one, all the time, for consistency in results.

Putting a few charts in my vet's faces might be a good idea, too!

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

They KNOW the numbers, but the charts are pretty dramatic.

Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:27:18 (PDT)

CarolW
05-01-2010, 05:52 PM
I've copied this data from the new thread i just started on making graphs using spreadsheets. (I'm asking how to do it!)

Here's the data again, but I'd posted it ONLY in mmol/L, so here, I'm adding the mg/dL measurements.

The first line for each day in this table has the glucose level in mmol/L, and the second line has it in mg/dL (U.S. measurement).


2010.................BGs
Day/date............06:30..07:00.........15:00.....18: 30....19:00
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sat 24 Apr ........10.1......................21.0........14.6
........................182....................... 378.........263

Sun 25 Apr....................................20.5....... .15.1
.................................................. .369..........272

Mon 26 Apr**................16.9............7.7.........2 2.2......30.2
...................................305............ 139.........400.......544

Tue 27 Apr......................................8.6
.................................................. ..155

Wed 28 Apr....................................15.2
.................................................. ..274

Thu 29 Apr.........9.8......11.4...........12.3.......... ..........23.8
.......................177.......205............22 2......................429

Fri 30 Apr.........12.4.......................12.6....... .21.8
.......................223........................ 227.........383

Sat 1 May.........17.2.........................8.2 // (to date)
......................310 ...................... .148

--------------------------------------------------------------------


** The data for Monday, 26 April is charted here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgbetter.php

and that chart shows the additional reading, at 21:02, when Kumbi's BGs had started down again. That reading was

21:02 - 27.3 mmol/L = 492 mg/dL

Talk about bouncing around! Yet there are hints of various consistencies. I have more charts for Kumbi, as well as some for other dogs, listed here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

There was the day when I turned up my nose at charts. NO LONGER! If they are properly done, they can be of great assistance in figuring things out. Especially if you're like me, very visually-oriented.

Sat, 1 May 2010 16:51:05 (PDT)

Ladybug
05-02-2010, 04:35 AM
Carol,

Are those actual readings with the OneTouch or do you add/subtract a percentage to/from the actual reading?

Linda and Ladybug

CarolW
05-02-2010, 01:50 PM
Linda - those are the actual meter readings. From a scientific point of view, it's best to keep the original data intact. You can always calculate later, if need be.

It would never really be possible to say with absolute certainty that Kumbi's BG had been such-and-such on a certain day at a certain time, but it IS possible to say with absolute certainty that the meter read the BG as such-and-such on a certain day at a certain time.

Then people can do with the data available - what they like!

My vet also uses OneTouch Ultra and OneTouch Ultra2 meters, so that can be very handy! EAch meter can be considered to be slightly different. So, my vet has five or six of these, and they have them all identified, and they make sure to use always the same meter on the same animal. Hey, my vets are smart! [grin]

Now I GOTTA go get a LITTLE sleep!

Kumbi says, Yeah, hurry up and sleep, Mum!

Sun, 2 May 2010 12:50:42 (PDT)

CarolW
05-02-2010, 02:03 PM
I THINK I got the "tiny" chart up, in my photo album, Kumbi's charts. I never know whether to "save changes" after the upload is complete!

it's stopped raining. That means, walk now, " 'fore it rains; 'fore it rains," instead of sleep! Jeez; this is how I lose sleep; haha!

But then I won't be Sticking Kumbi immediately after his walk, so will miss another nap opportunity, while I stay awake long enough to Stick him a while later!

Hehe

Sun, 2 May 2010 13:03:32 (PDT)

CarolW
05-02-2010, 11:56 PM
Updating Kumbi's BGs to this evening. I did extra readings today, because he was running slightly lower than usual, and I wanted to adjust his insulin dose if I thought he was in any danger of sinking into a hypo.

But then we got our evening soar, so I kept his dose steady as she goes, at 7.5 iu of Novolin-NPH.


Including what I posted before, and bringing it up-to-date:

2010.................BGs
Day/date............06:30..07:00.........15:00.....18: 30....19:00
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sat 24 Apr ........10.1......................21.0........14.6
........................182....................... 378.........263

Sun 25 Apr....................................20.5....... .15.1
.................................................. .369..........272
..................................07:00...
Mon 26 Apr**................16.9............7.7.........2 2.2......30.2
...................................305............ 139.........400.......544

Tue 27 Apr......................................8.6
.................................................. ..155

Wed 28 Apr....................................15.2
.................................................. ..274

Thu 29 Apr.........9.8......11.4...........12.3.......... ..........23.8
.......................177.......205............22 2......................429

Fri 30 Apr.........12.4.......................12.6....... .21.8
.......................223........................ 227.........383

Sat 1 May.........17.2.........................8.2...... ...22.6
......................310 ...................... .148..........407
.................................09:00..09:46
Sun 2 May........06:32..17.6....14.2....9.9...........9. 6......20.6
.......................180....317......256 ...178..........173......371

Hope I typed that last stuff right; falling asleep at the keyboard.

I think I see why my vets say, don't bother testing in certain conditions; ha! I tested that last because the numbers were running very lovely, but a bit on the low side! That last includes a food spike!

Sun, 2 May 2010 22:56:03 (PDT)

CarolW
05-05-2010, 09:32 PM
Despite the fluctuations in BGs Kumbi has because of having infection (teeth), and being on antibiotics (Clavaseptin), it DOES seem the combination of vitamins and other liver support meds, and the Chinese herbs Kumbi is on to improve his liver values - are working to make him feel better. I'm suspecting his liver is improving; we won't have more blood-work for another few weeks. Then we'll see.

Last night I managed to chart Kumbi's water consumption, matching it against his SUPPOSED nadir time of 3 p.m. HOWEVER his actual nadir time tends to vary - any time between around 2 p.m. (rare), to 3 p.m., to just before his supper at 6:30 p.m.

The last couple of days, his nadir has indeed been just before his supper.

For instance:

Sun 2 May:...18:32 - 9.6 mmol/L = 173 mg/dL
Mon 3 May:...18:29 - 13.6 mmol/L = 245 mg/dL
Tue 4 May:....18:33 - 7.3 mmol/L = 132 mg/dL (HEY!)
Wed 5 May....18:30 - 8.2 mmol/L = 148 mg/dL.

Going that low, the last two days, I also took a pre-insulin reading; Kumbi gets insulin at 19:00 (7 p.m.)

Tue 4 May - 19:00 - 8.3 mmol/L = 150 mg/dL

Hey, again! That's a SMALL food spike, for Kumbi! So I cut his insulin last night, a full half-unit, from 7.5 iu of Novolin-NPH to 7.0 i.u. That's a conservative cut.

All the same, this morning, I gave Kumbi 7.25 units. This Novolin-NPH is very powerful stuff.

Kumbi's food-spike this evening was more normal:

Wed 5 May - 19:01 - 12.0 mmol/L = 216 mg/dL (up from 8.2 mmol/L = 148 mg/dL).

I gave him 7.25 units this evening as well, and will simply watch him. I hope to hold his dose at 7.25 units for a while. Of course, if I see actual lows, I'll cut it again. Or, if he starts running unduly high, I'll raise it. Likely, in SMALL increments. Kumbi has had long periods of being fairly well-regulated, and we got there in small increments - and my vets have taught me to work in small increments - to avoid hypo.

Knock on wood - Kumbi has NEVER had a hypo.

Here are his readings for today:

06:30 - 16.4 mmol/L = 296 mg/dL
(Went back up to 7.25 units, from last night's 7.0)
15:00 - 11.1 mmol/L = 200 mg/dL
18:30 - 8.2 mmol/L = 148 mg/dL
19:01 - 12.0 mmol/L = 216 mg/dL

For Kumbi, since his infection set in, those are good numbers. I'm watching him closely.

This water-consumption chart:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbiwater.php

has a higher "nadir" BG than other days recently; yet Kumbi drank less water that day.

That was Monday, 3 May, and his readings that day were:

06:30 - 17.2 mmol/L = 310 mg/dL
15:00 - 14.3 mmol/L = 258 mg/dL
18:29 - 13.6 mmol/L = 245 mg/dL

running on the high side; yet he drank less water that day than he usually does.

Kumbi was admiring Vekkie's Patience Hat. He couldn't stop looking at it, so Vekkie made him one of his own. If you wonder about Kumbi looking at hats when he's blind - well, he uses his nose and his ears.

http://www.coherentdog.org/tidberries5.php

Of COURSE his hat has Tidberries on it. They are indispensable.

Wed, 5 May 2010 20:32:30 (PDT)

CarolW
05-08-2010, 12:46 AM
Continuing to monitor Kumbi's BG levels; largely, at fasting, a.m. and p.m., and at his typical nadir time of 3 p.m.

Finally, today, I managed a chart in a different form from my standard line-graph for a BG curve.

My three-daily-readings chart for Kumbi covers the past 8 days (including today). I think it has some very interesting features! I wouldn't have noticed them if I hadn't made this graph.

This time, I put the numbers in a separate picture, because it was just too difficult to fit them into the chart area itself.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbi3daily.php

Hope some of you people enjoy the chart!

Kumbi seems to be feeling gradually a bit better each day, so I'm hoping his liver really IS improving. I'm sweating it on the fund-raising, as my vet wants to test for Cushings. I still see no signs of Cushings, but his liver values WERE bad in his blood work on 23 March, and they looked a bit Cushings-ish!

Normally I wouldn't be monitoring Kumbi so closely, but he's on a Chinese Herb concoction that says I'm to monitor his glucose levels.

So I am!

Oh, good boy, Kumbi; you can keep on wearing your Patient's Hat.

Fri, 7 May 2010 23:43:15 (PDT)

ozzi
05-08-2010, 07:27 AM
Carol,

NICE job on the graph! I love to look at graphs rather than numbers...it's so much more meaningful and easier to see trends. I like your idea of plotting the BG based on time of day for each day. I was fascinated. It's a nice way to see the daily variations at the same time of day in addition to observing the changes at each time on one particular day. I wonder what was different for Kumbi on 5/4/10 at 6:30am. If you can figure that out, I can see where it would really help to better regulate Kumbi. I also realize that there may be no explanation beyond that's how Kumbi's BG was at that time! Keep up the great work!
Kevin

CarolW
05-08-2010, 02:56 PM
Kevin - so glad you like the chart! I had a bit of trouble working out just how to make that thing - but trial and error helped; ha!

As I look now, and after noting Ladybug's single high reading today (so far as I know today at this moment), I think quite possibly that spike came from weather, as we'd had very heavy rain, lots of heavy wind; branches down - and a few trees also, around the neighborhood.

I could suddenly feel (in my minds' eye) Kumbi tensing up about the weather. Maybe Ladybug did, too - Linda! what do you think?

That evening, I was really tired of the then-apparently continuous soarings of BG levels in the evening, and I cut Kumbi's dose from his standard, 7.5 iu of Novolin-NPH insulin, back to 7.0 units.

Then the next morning, I brought the dose back up again by a quarter unit, with the idea of staying on 7.25 units for at least a week.

We're still within that week. Kumbi's numbers are slightly higher for the moment.

HEY! - my vet says (Linda!) - retire a vial of insulin after 35 days. I have when-to-change-vials scheduled in my computer Calendar program. Changed his vial today.

Suddenly, today, the temp is up to 19 C (about 67 F) - a lot warmer than it has been - clear, sunny, moderate breezes; we'll see how things go. I'm reminded of Ozzi's 73-degree thermostat!

Sat, 8 May 2010 13:54:21 (PDT)

k9diabetes
05-10-2010, 01:14 AM
With no sign of Cushings and pretty well controlled blood sugar, maybe the Cushing's test isn't needed, especially when the cost is such a factor. It is possible to have "just" liver problems.

I'm certainly glad he's feeling better. I have seen Milk Thistle and SamE do really great things for dogs' liver function.

Natalie

eileen
05-10-2010, 09:44 AM
I'm thinking the same as Natalie, Carol.

With no outstanding signs of Cushings you may want to think twice about having the test performed.

Mildred has been on Milk Thistle for a few years now, just a part of her daily supplements.

Ladybug
05-10-2010, 11:27 AM
Hey Carol!

I'm reading and listening! Just finally had time to answer!

As I look now, and after noting Ladybug's single high reading today (so far as I know today at this moment), I think quite possibly that spike came from weather, as we'd had very heavy rain, lots of heavy wind; branches down - and a few trees also, around the neighborhood.

I could suddenly feel (in my minds' eye) Kumbi tensing up about the weather. Maybe Ladybug did, too - Linda! what do you think?

Well, the 140 to 316 increase in two hours on the 8th was a bit much. She did climb a little bit higher to 338 and stayed there. She is a weather freak as such she ONLY likes it to be sunny with no wind! LOL! Maybe she needs to have a word with Mother Nature! I had the windows open that day and the curtains were blowing, which she hates. I don't know why!

Yesterday the 9th, the weather was perfect...her morning fast reading after she went out to pee was 288, walk at 9AM, at 11AM it was 216 and at 2PM it was 217. Perfect day!!!!

Now, today the 10th is another story. She went to pee as usual before her AM reading, but the grass was wet, we had a very heavy frost last night. Oh, and she also hates to get her piggies wet. LOL! When she came in and I took her fast reading, it was 394!! :eek: We did our walk at 9AM as usual, followed by a few kibble of dry food. I just took it at 11AM and she came down to 239. But, now the wet grass is gone, it's beautiful sunshine and not windy. Hopefully, she'll be lower or around the same at 3PM.

Tomorrow, we're supposed to have rain all day so when we walk she will get her feet wet, plus she won't go outside in the rain! I guess we'll have high 300 bg readings all day! On rainy days, she will follow me around all day long. I call that inner feeling "she's going to be up my butt all day today!" :D I think that Ladybug thinks I can control the weather!

HEY! - my vet says (Linda!) - retire a vial of insulin after 35 days. I have when-to-change-vials scheduled in my computer Calendar program. Changed his vial today.

I's starting to find that the vials only last 37-39 days before she starts to rise. Maybe I'll just try a new vial every 30 days for 2-3 months and see if she keeps stable. Maybe that's why I'm getting all these "up and down" readings!

Well, tomorrow morning I'm going to go outside and make up some kind of dance to make the rain stop! :D What do you think!

Linda/Ladybug :)

Patty
05-10-2010, 12:56 PM
Maybe she needs to have a word with Mother Nature!

I think that Ladybug thinks I can control the weather!

Well, tomorrow morning I'm going to go outside and make up some kind of dance to make the rain stop! :D What do you think!


Well Linda, can one of the 2 of you do something about the 20 degree weather we are supposed to have tonight? :eek:
When it's cold, Ali hangs out inside sleeping...and that makes her bgs rise. :rolleyes:

Patty :D

CarolW
05-10-2010, 12:56 PM
Welll, my dear buddies, as you all are, I'll be back in a bit and byte to reply to your lovely posts.

Meantime, I'm curving Kumbi again today, to try to see better just WHERE I want to put his insulin dose. Yesterday morning - Mother's Day - I suddenly felt I wanted to bring him back up from the slightly-reduced dose I began this past Tuesday, 4 May, evening - from 7.5 iu of Novolin-NPH to 7.0 iu; then I raised it Wendesday morning, 5 May. to 7.25, determined to hold it there about a week. Purpose -if these fluctuating BGs ARE rebound, as I think they COULD be, to put the rebounding at least a little in check (no pun intended).

Then yesterday, with a high morning reading, I put it back up to 7.5 iu - and gave the same in the evening.

MOTHER! what ARE you DOING! Likely, that was a BAD IDEA!

Just look at these Terrifying Threes, on today's readings so far:


Monday, 10 May 2010; Kumbi BG curve;
Meter OneTouch Ultra2, Kumbi II
Weather: overcast, coolish; 8 degrees C - 46 degrees F
dripping drips from the sky, not soaking


06:30 - 23.7 mmol/L = 428 mg/dL (bad enough)
Meds and breakfast; 06:30
07:01 - 33.2 mmol/L = 599 mg/dL - EEEEEK!
Insulin - Novolin-NPH, 7.25 iu (keeping MYSELF in check)
*** Dropped Insulin dose from 7.5 to 7.25 ***
09:01 - 23.2 mmol/L = 418 mg/dL - hmm - roaring down
Walk - moderate pace, low excite; 09:19 - 09:54 (36 min)
11:00 - 13.8 mmol/L = 249 mg/dL - waterfall - glucose-fall?

Betcha anything he won't drop a LOT lower than that. Maybe down to 7 or so. NOT - I say, NOT - THREE!

Next test scheduled for 1 p.m,, after which, weather permitting, I'll walk Kumbi again, probably for around 30 minutes.

One possibility for some of these high readings is that Kumbi IS scarting up SOMETHING along the roadsides - hoped mostly berries, but, Linda and Ladybug, I DO watch him practically every step of the way; I can't always prevent him from grabbing something.

Kumbi seems to FEEL pretty good. Was negative for ketones (ketostix) just after 9 a.m. He's drinking considerably more water this MORNING than he's done in quite some time; usually his main drinking is evening, after his supper.

Mon, 10 May 2010 11:50:49 (PDT) - gonna snatch a nap!

CarolW
05-11-2010, 02:23 PM
I don't BELIEVE this! Yes, I do. Just like me. Can't see the nose RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! Well, gosh; Kumbi can see HIS nose - sort of - it sticks out far enough. Or he can smell it, or something.

Linda and Ladybug, you here? I have a new page dedicated to you two. Here I was, yesterday or the day before, commenting about that puppy milkbone and rising BGs - and all the while, here I was doing the same thing to Kumbi!

I'll eat my hat (Kumbi says, NOT MY PATIENT'S HAT) if I'm wrong about this, but I'll bet you anything it's Kumbi's afternoon snack sending his BGs soaring, evening!

So today, we change. I'll watch and see what's happening.

Patty, we are getting sort of similar temperature changes - quite steep, a bit like Kumbi's curves. Twenty Fahrenheit is COLD! That's about 6.6 degrees Celsius (we have Celsius here in Canada).

Hope nobody froze a toenail nor a paw last night!

Natalie, and Eileen, thanks so much for your suggestions about bypassing what might be unnecessary - expensive - tests!

I'd been thinking the same. We're scheduled for a repeat blood panel for next Tuesday - a week from today; we'll see how that goes. I'm betting Kumbi's liver values are improved. He feels so much better these days.

There remained the very puzzling soaring of Kumbi's glucose levels in the evening. Now, if I'd taken just ONE step back from my own charts, and actually LOOKED at them, with other than a Charting Eye - likely, I would have asked myself, much sooner: "Just what is going on at five in the afternoon?" Or, better, "Just what is going on a couple of hours earler - at THREE in the afternoon!

I think maybe those Terrifying Three numbers (in mmol/L) I got yesterday were trying to tell me something. Such as, "Look at THREE; look at THREE, you silly!"

So, today, it hit me in the face (which is now a lovely shade of red) - SNACK at three - does Kumbi need that? It seems, no, he doesn't!

So, now to reorganize Kumbi's treats, so he gets a bit of a treat instead of a snack, at three in the afternoon!

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgconsistent.php

I need a nap again - and we'll walk later - without a snack!

Tue, 11 May 2010 12:59:50 (PDT)

Ladybug
05-11-2010, 03:34 PM
Hi Carol!

Linda and Ladybug, you here? I have a new page dedicated to you two. Here I was, yesterday or the day before, commenting about that puppy milkbone and rising BGs - and all the while, here I was doing the same thing to Kumbi!
We're here tonight and fine as frog's hair - everything is perfect today! I would love to see the page, maybe send me the link!

But, Ladybug didn't have her Milk Bone treat yesterday....and look what happened! Then again, she didn't have it today and she's fine!

Who knows what lurks in the minds of diabetic dogs.......I bet they think of all kinds of schemes to get food, sweets, attention! But what it does to us human parents!!! AACK!!! :D

Linda/Ladybug :)

CarolW
05-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Hey, Linda! Remember it can take a day or two - or three - before things begin to settle after a change! I'm reminding MYSELF of that right now, too.

The link to the new page is near the end of my previous post; thought I'd point that out rather than repeating the link so soon!

The dedication to you and Ladybug is below the second chart on the page.

I'm taking a few extra readings today; Kumbi does NOT appreciate that, after so many Sticks yesterday! I gave him tiny amounts of his canned food, instead of soaked kibble, for treats, because I think the dry food REALLY sends his glucose levels up; the canned, much less so. Guess I'll find out! That is, assuming it was the kibble that was sending him soaring in the evenings! It could be at least partly that.

I'll report back, and catch you on your thread, too, where I'm keeping up reading.

Kumbi sends his love to you and Ladybug, and so do I!

Tue, 11 May 2010 16:18:45 (PDT)

CarolW
05-12-2010, 11:30 PM
Oh my doGNess!

Just have a look at Kumbi's evening soarings of BGs - typical since he went onto Chinese herbs - liver support stuff, on 1 April 2010:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgconsistent.php

That was yesterday's curve.

Now, compare with today's reading - I only took five, as we didn't really need to keep bugging Kumbi all the time (his poor lip!) - but i took them at times when he's been soaring.

And what did we get?

This!

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgnokibble.php

We don't have that nasty soaring that shows in the rest of his April 2010 charts. We have only the typical food spike after his supper.

Good heavens! What a difference 13 kibbles make! Rather, their absence!

I'll continue keeping an eye (or meter) on things, as we go along, and report anything oddball.

Wed, 12 May 2010 22:29:36 (PDT)

Patty
05-13-2010, 05:43 AM
Wow, Carol. That's a pretty dramatic difference. Thank you were able to sleuth that out!
Patty

CarolW
05-13-2010, 07:49 AM
Patty - I can tell you, I felt slow and stupid, when SUDDENLY I realized what was likely causing those evening soarings of Kumbi's BGs - actually, mostly since about the middle of April, since Kumbi had been on the meds that could change his insulin requirements.

It is SO dramatic on the charts - really hits you in the face - that similar shape with increasing slopes upward, from about five in the afternoon.

So, the temptation is to think, "What happens at five every day?" BUT - because it was kibble apparently causing the soaring, I have to allow time for the spike (especially when there's exercise in there, as there is!) - therefore, I next need to ask (guided by the charts) - "What happens at THREE every day?"

And because my computer Calendar program talks to me at three every afternoon - reminding me to give Kumbi his afternoon snack, and also, we either return from or leave for our afternoon walk around that time, that called my attention (FINALLY!) to -

Kumbi's afternoon snack!

From there, it's not difficult to figure out (this is still a guess, but I do think, likely) - the way Kumbi absorb the food - I could expect those spikes in the evening.

And I'd MISSED considering Tech Nyla's remark, "He's running out of insulin." Well, she was right on - I think!

If ever there was a demonstration of the usefulness of charts, I think this is one! Precisely because it hits you in the face!

Thu, 13 May 2010 06:49:06 (PDT)
Off to shoot Kumbi - but get his BG first!

HugosMom
05-13-2010, 08:32 AM
Hi Carol, now that you know what's causing the spike + Kumbi is running out of insulin at that time, what do you plan to do to compensate? Eliminate the snack or is it more complicated than that? Learning from your posts!

CarolW
05-13-2010, 06:29 PM
Hi Kirbi,

Once it struck me that very likely, it was the KIBBLE snack I'd been giving at three in the afternoon that set off Kumbi's evening soarings in BG levels (really, Tech Nyla had it right, I think - "he's running out of insulin") - it seemed to me to make sense to keep things VERY simple - and merely omit that kibble.

Kumbi is so accustomed to having a snack at that time that I substituted something I thought would barely raise his glucose levels, if at all - a tiny bit of his canned food. This food is sort of mushy, but not drippy, and I can take a bit of it and form it into tiny balls - a quarter teaspoon yields three tiny balls easily.

So that's what I gave him yesterday, instead of the kibble I'd been giving before at three in the afternoon.

And sure enough, we didn't have the soarings yesterday evening.

Today is more complex, because it's Hunt Day - my Senior Discount day on food and groceries - and Kumbi's Human DogDaddy is away camping. Kumbi can't be left alone at home, because I never had the opportunity to teach him to accept that. So I took him with me.

We went early, to avoid the heat of the day. I walked him first, and walked him at the vet's, too, where I took him to get his weight - aha; he's up to 8.9 Kg - a good thing - that's about 19.6 pounds.

We got home about three hours after leaving on the morning walk. This is a very stressful occasion for Kumbi, though mostly, I left him in the car, to avoid the fleas that tend to proliferate in town. (For some reason, he doesn't pick up fleas at the vet's!) I hate using flea poisons on Kumbi, though if I must, I use Advantage, which seems to do the job with minimal damage.

Kumbi has been having a LOT of pricks, and he's beginning to shake and tremble at Prick-time, so I'd like to eliminate any unnecessary ones. I've decided to use mostly pre-insulin-time in the morning - that's after food, where he gets quite a spike (mornings). But before his supper is a typical nadir-time for Kumbi, and likely, I'll continue to test right before feeding him in the evening. Then whether I add the pre-insulin check will depend on the pre-meal check. If the pre-meal check is fairly low, I'll probably need the pre-insulin check as well, to make sure I don't give him too much insulin.

I can count on a SMALL food-spike in the evenings, but oddly, it's not usually as much as he gets in the mornings. Or PERHAPS it's spread out over a much longer period in the evenings! I've never tracked Kumbi's glucose levels overnight. It would be interesting to do that, but I want to test as little as possible for now. Kumbi does stress lots at being tested! - even at home!

So, there's a LONG, rambly answer for you. Probably a main feature is, first, we never really know what's going on, without testing. Next, dogs vary - they are different from each other. Also, any one dog may vary from one day to the next, partly depending on how THEY see what's going on in their lives.

I think the best we can do is, do the testing we really need to do - consider the PURPOSE of the testing - am I trying to adjust the insulin dose? If so, I need a full curve. Or am I just trying to prevent hypo? If that, I need fewer tests, and it's a good idea to time them, for Kumbi, for late afternoon.

That single change of three-in-the-afternoon snack, from kibble to a tiny bit of canned, clearly makes a big difference to Kumbi's glucose levels, so I'll need to be watching, to make sure to keep his insulin dose well-adjusted (as far as possible).

In previous trial-and-error - and - from my vet, too - I learned to adjust in very small amounts, especially if RAISING doses. If glucose levels are dropping too far, it's safe to cut a dose by a fair bit, because going high won't kill the dog.

But I think I cut too much in the beginning of April (when he started with the Chinese herbs), and I ended up coming back up to his previous standard dose. Then later, I ended up cutting that back - by a QUARTER UNIT (twice a day).

Specifically, Kumbi had been on 7.5 iu of Novolin-NPH insulin since mid-January this year. After a week or so of adjusting too-much down, I came back up to 7.5, and then cut to 7.25, where, for the moment, I'm holding.

All this is enough to make us scratch our heads, isn't it!

I have one struggle for myself this evening. i really would like to know how low Kumbi goes right before his supper (fasting). His reading at three today was 10.2 mmol/L (184 mg/dL) - and I suspect he's going lower before his supper - how low, is the question, and when!

But today is absolutely not a typical day for Kumbi - he almost never accompanies me on Hunt Day. Going with me adds a great deal to his stress - doesn't matter if it's eu-stress (good stress, fun) or dis-stress (bad stress, or, no fun!) Both kinds of stress have the same physiological result - that is, elevations of stress-hormones such as cortisol.

What DOES matter is just one thing - how much insulin should I give Kumbi this evening? I'm absolutely NOT going to raise his dose, but I might reduce it, if he's unusually low. Probably not by much - a quarter unit, most likely.

I think I just decided to go ahead with the fasting test this evening - poor Kumbi - largely because his stresses were rather large today, and he had only bits of canned food as a snack - and we walked after that. I FEEL as though I want to know if he hits a nadir at fasting-time. So I guess I'll test at 6:30 p.m., and also pre-insulin, at 7 p.m. To make sure I don't OVERDOSE him with insulin.

Currently I'm giving 7.25 units, twice daily. In PRINCIPLE, it's best to hold that dose absolutely steady, as far as possible - the only exception would be to cut back to prevent hypo, or, if you have a very recent curve, you can adjust based on that curve. And we have a curve from three days ago.

I guess this evening, I'll be breaking my rule - ONLY test if I absolutely NEED TO KNOW! It's the pre-insulin test that matters.

If you read ALL THIS - you were very patient, and Vekkie offers you a Patience Hat,

http://www.coherentdog.org/tidberries4.php

as long as it's exactly the same as hers. It's too much work to make a different one!

Thu, 13 May 2010 17:23:20 (PDT)

HugosMom
05-13-2010, 08:40 PM
You always give me such great things to think about. You are right about the head-scratching! "Consider the PURPOSE of testing". That one comment helps. I find myself testing him a lot these days because I've seen some low numbers for him. It's become a bit of a crutch for me and he doesn't seem to mind. In fact, I swear he asks me to do it. He'll bang around in my kitchen shoving the step stool, nudging the recycling until something crashes, and always looking at me. It may be time to test or even time for his injection and he seems to let me know.

This last dose adjustment to get us closer to the numbers we want had his BGs all over the place. You were all so right about the 5 to 7 days AND about a smaller dose change when we got closer. I just didn't know exactly when that would be. I think I found it. I'll study his numbers to see if I can understand when his spikes are the way you know when Kumbi's are. His evening numbers go low (8 - 10 at the lowest) but then it's dinner time and they shoot right back up while I consider whether or not to lower his dose.

Hugo would not be impressed if I eliminated his afternoon snack and I am sometimes seeing higher numbers after that so that was partly the reason for the original question. I appreciate the detail! By seeing your thought process around it all helps me understand it much better and gets me thinking about things I might not have!

CarolW
05-13-2010, 10:00 PM
Hey, Kirbi! Our minds seem to run on similar tracks - dealing with rather excruciating detail! But, then, that's generally done on this forum, a little at a time - it's one reason the forum is so very, very helpful.

I'm amused and pleased that Hugo asks you to test! Kumbi would never do that!

I did do that extra test this evening, and glad I did.

Here are today's readings for a very unusual day for Kumbi (going with me on Hunt Day).

Thursday, 13 May 2010 (Hunt Day)

Meds and dry food - 06:30
07:00 - 27.3 mmol/L = 492 mg/dL
Insulin - Novolin-NPH, 7.25 iu, 07:00
Canned food - 07:00
15:00 - 10.2 mmol/L = 184 mg/dL
18:30 - 8.9 mmol/L = 160 mg/dL
Meds and dry food - 18:30
19:00 - 17.1 mmol/L = 308 mg/dL
Insulin - Novolin-NPH, 7.25 iu, 19:00
canned food, 19:00

No kibble treats or snacks given today.

No fasting reading this morning, so no indication of the morning food spike, though I find that spike is generally somewhere around 6 mmol/L, which would be about 108 mg/dL.

Look at that evening spike! - 8.2 mmol/L, or, about 148 mg/dL - in half an hour!

I held Kumbi's insulin dose at 7.25 iu (Novolin-NPH). Part of dealing with rapidly-changing BGs is exactly that, I think - holding everything else just as steady as possible.

By the way, it's the dry food - the kibble - that causes the spikes. The canned food doesn't.

Consistency, says my vet, is part of why and how Kumbi has generally done very well, despite these variations.

Kumbi may shoot up, but he doesn't STAY up very long; the insulin kicks in, and starts doing its job.

One day, rather, night - sometime when I haven't been constantly attacking Kumbi with lancets! - I might do checks through the night, though I doubt every two hours, though that would be useful.

Kumbi says to Hugo - you are a lucky dog! Great Dog-Mum you've got there! Well, mine is okay, too, even though I don't like Sticks.

I'm falling asleep at the keyboard again, so will likely retire shortly for the night! Kumbi is dozing on his favorite bed, and will surely join me before too long. I always stroke him on my way to bed, and generally, he follows me up onto Our Bed a few minutes later.

This is Day Two of no kibble-treats during the day; again, Kumbi didn't show that soaring from five p.m. with increasing slope through to insulin-time in the evening. I'll probably chart this; tomorrow; can't manage tonight; too sleepy.

Indeed, it looks as though that afternoon kibble-snack was the culprit for evening soarings of the sort Kumbi experienced recently.

Thu, 13 May 2010 20:56:39 (PDT)

CarolW
05-14-2010, 04:58 PM
Yikes! Big surprise at the 15:00 (3 p.m.) BG test.

15:00 - 4.6 mmol/L = 83 mg/dL

I gave Kumbi a quarter teaspoon of his canned food, which is what I'm now giving (third day) instead of the ten soaked kibbles, along with another three I give after afternoon walks. Or, I USED TO. (I've also been doing the same after morning walks, omitting three soaked kibbles, and giving, instead, a quarter teaspoon of canned dog food.

I had no reason to suspect any problem with that reading, so didn't bother with a second one right away. Instead, I'm continuing taking readings at fairly close intervals. I opened my bottle of Karo - peeled off the cap - had bought a new one after not using one for three years and more!

So I'm measuring again

15:15 - 4.6 mmol/L = 83 mg/dL
Gave three soaked kibbles after this one.

and continuing:

15:30 - 4.8 mmol/L = 86 mg/dL

Starting up WHEW!

I think the kibbles are at work .Probably won't need the Karo corn syrup!

Tech Nyla says, no readings below 5.0 mmol/L (90 mg/dL), please. She says hypo level is 2.0 mmol/L (36 mg/dL).

I'm adding other readings I wasn't going to do today - one in five minutes, at 4 p.m., one at 5 p.m., and will continue at fasting (6:30 p.m.) and pre-insulin (7 p.m.).

Icky Pricky Kumbi! Kumbi says, NO! Icky Pricky MUMMY!

He seems fine. Dogs often do - till they collapse with hypo - there are, it's commonly said, few, if any real advanced warning signs - only the hypo event! NO, thanks! So far, Kumbi has never had a hypo, but he came nearly this close on 8 June. 2007.

Fri, 14 May 2010 15:57:56 (PDT)

CarolW
05-14-2010, 05:49 PM
Kumbi's BG reading at 4 p.m.:

16:02 - 5.4 mmol/L = 97 mg/dL

We're on the way up; I see no danger, though I'll be watching. I notified my vets. They are totally swamped today.

I'm not worried. I'm considering cutting Kumbi's insulin dose back to 7.0 units of Novolin-NPH, from his current (only for the last 10 days or so [since the evening of 4 May]) 7.25 units; before that, it was 7.5 units. Except that on 9 May, I gave him 7.5 units twice that day. Changed my mind again, and went back to 7.25.

Kumbi came off a 50-day course of Clavaseptin, the morning of Wed. 12 May. This could be affecting his BG levels - quite likely IS!

Add to that my change of food, in the sense that, three days ago, I stopped feeding 10 kibbles for an afternoon snack, as well as 3 kibbles after each of two walks a day. Instead, I've been feeding a quarter teaspoon of his canned dog food.

I think things are looking up; I just need to watch Kumbi's BG levels.

And adjust as needed, with insulin. I don't plan to go back to feeding kibbles for snacks.

Guess I'll have to buy more lancets and test strips, earlier than I'd planned. Gosh!

Fri, 14 May 2010 16:49:05 (PDT)
(Next tests due at 17:00 and 18:30.)

peggy0
05-14-2010, 07:22 PM
Hi Carol

Forbins BGs dropped 3 days after his antibiotic was finished. While he was one them, I typically had to raise his dosage 10% so you're probably seeing that going on. Too bad we can't grow strip trees :)

CarolW
05-14-2010, 07:49 PM
Hi Peggy,

Well, I guess Kumbi is following Forbin's example! Maybe a day early!

Look at THIS reading - at a time Kumbi is typically low:

18:30 - 23.6 mmol/L = 425 mg/dL

Gosh that looks like rebound.

I might cut his dose more than a quarter unit, at least for tonight, though my vets tend to say, hold steady.

I was going to give 7 units instead of 7.25, but I think I'll drop it to 6.5 for tonight. Not sure yet; might give the 7 units. We''ll see how his pre-insulin reading looks!

Kumbi is dong his evening soaring again! Of course, it might be those FOUR soaked kibbles I gave him! Thank goodness I didn't give him Karo corn syrup!

P.S. Kumbi is FEELING great! Doing his evening rolls! We'll ask him to plant a strip-tree.

Fri, 14 May 2010 18:47:42 (PDT)

CarolW
05-14-2010, 08:28 PM
This was likely predictable, after that 6:30 p.m. reading, and knowing Kumbi gets big food spikes.

19:00 - 30.0 mmol/L = 541 mg/dL

So, a list of readings for today so far:

Friday, 14 May 2010; 07:12:46

07:01 - 27.0 mmol/L = 407 mg/dL
15:00 - 4.6 mmol/L = 83 mg/dL
15:15 - 4.6 mmol/L = 83 mg/dL
15:30 - 4.8 mmol/L = 86 mg/dL
16:02 - 5.4 mmol/L = 97 mg/dL
17:00 - 10.8 mmol/L = 195 mg/dL
18:30 - 23.6 mmol/L = 425 mg/dL
19:00 - 30.0 mmol/L = 541 mg/dL

That 7 a.m. reading, of course, includes a food spike, but he was probably somewhere around 20.0 mmol/L (360 mg/dL) or 21.0 mmol/L (378 mg/dL) at 6:30 a.m.

I plan readings at 8 and 9 p.m. Gosh. More Sticks than he gets on a really normal curve-day.

Lucky Kumbi FEELS okay.

I'll report back.

Fri, 14 May 2010 19:28:05 (PDT)

CarolW
05-14-2010, 10:02 PM
From my previous report; adding significant events

Friday, 14 May 2010
sunny, moderate breezes
Meter - OneTouch Ultra2 Kumbi II

no fasting reading this morning
Meds for liver support 06:30
Food - 1 cup dry, yogurt; 06:30
07:01 - 27.0 mmol/L = 407 mg/dL - 30 min after food, pre-insulin
Insulin at 07:01; 7.25 iu of Novolin-NPH (same since 4 May)
Food - canned (4 heaping tbsp) - this is usual
Morning walk - 08:30-09:06 (36 minutes) - normal walk - 12 C=54 F
Treat on return from walk - 1/4 tsp canned food
Afternoon walk - 13:36-14:13 (37 minutes) - normal walk 17 C=63 F
Treat on return from walk - 1/4 tsp canned food

and now, the drama!

15:00 - 4.6 mmol/L = 83 mg/dL <== this is the big surprise!
Treat - a quarter tsp canned food
15:15 - 4.6 mmol/L = 83 mg/dL
Treat - three soaked kibbles - cowardly me!
15:30 - 4.8 mmol/L = 86 mg/dL
Treat - one soaked kibble - urging Kumbi upward without corn syrup
16:02 - 5.4 mmol/L = 97 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp canned - back off, Carol! looks like fast rise
17:00 - 10.8 mmol/L = 195 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp canned - won't raise BGs; here comes the soar
18:30 - 23.6 mmol/L = 425 mg/dL (fasting)
18:30 - meds for liver
18:31 - supper - 1 cup dry; yogurt
19:00 - 30.0 mmol/L = 541 mg/dL
Insulin - backed down from 7.25 iu to 7.0 iu (Novolin-NPH) (19:00)
Food - canned (4 heaping tbsp)

Add this reading:

20:00 - 28.1 mmol/L = 506 mg/dL

So, Kumbi has started down. I did chicken out; I gave him 7.0 units of his Novolin-NPH insulin, rather than cutting it back more; so I only cut by a quarter unit.

The scenario here is that Kumbi had 50 days on Clavaseptin; came off it 2.5 days ago (morning, 12 May), and is on liver support meds; it's the Chinese herbs that might change his insulin requirements. He has improved in health considerably - very noticeably, since all this began with the bad-liver-value blood panel on 23 March.

Kumbi's HEALTH is improving - lots, I think. But it's typical for glucose levels to fluctuate - in the presence of infection, AND when on antibiotics (Clavaseptin).

Kumbi has had ENOUGH Sticks for the day, and since he's clearly started down, I think I'll leave it at that for today.

The whole thing does look reboundish. Consider the fact that it takes at least 1.5 hours for the insulin to kick in after the shot, which I gave at 7:00 p.m. - suggesting that the drop between 7 and 8 p.m. occurred before the insulin had time to aid it!

Kumbi is always right near me, and I have my eye on him - even while sleeping; he sleeps at my shoulder.

I'll need to pay attention; I hope, with far fewer Sticks in the next few days. Guess I'll do fasting AND pre-insulin readings tomorrow morning, before deciding absolutely on the insulin dose, though I'm expecting to aim at 7.0 units, on the principle my vets are suggesting - steady as she goes. THEY don't think this is rebound. At least, not so far.

Fri, 14 May 2010 20:58:54 (PDT) Kumbi - you ESCAPED a nine p.m. reading!

HugosMom
05-15-2010, 10:30 AM
Keep the detail coming Carol! Just took Hugo's reading because he looks "heavy" just sleeping there and sure enough... 6.2 (112). I'll check again in 15 min. and see if I should give him a kibble treat.

CarolW
05-15-2010, 11:47 AM
Kirbi - as you're aware by now, most likely, I replied in your Hugo-thread. (What fun! - the two do have relationships - as in, we both measure in mmol/L; haha!) and our dogs are small, and typically, suddenly-energetic.

Kumbi is far less that than he used to be, with no Kwali around to help trigger him.

This morning, I sent a VERY long email to my vet, containing all Kumbi's readings since my last email report to them on 26 April in the evening. I also included links to some of Kumbi's charts on Coherent Dog, and I ALSO attached four files (chart pictures), though I'd meant to attach five.

Later I found errors in what I'd sent, and wrote again just to correct the most serious error, where I'd said I'd given 9 units - no way! that was supposed to be 7.5.

Well, my long letter with four pictures attracted their attention all right. I'd phoned in late yesterday afternoon as well. Maybe 20 minutes ago, or half an hour, one of the front office people phoned to say they'd received my long letter, and one of the vets would be in touch with me. This will be largely concerning Kumbi's insulin dose for the next little while, since he's off antiibiotics - perhaps the Chinese herbs are having more effect now, or something!

They were really too busy to work with me yesterday, and I hadn't sent them the data, so they have a lot of data to catch up with!

Guess I'll take a reading at eleven, though I'm trying to avoid "unnecessary readings" - having stayed at 7.0 units of Novolin-NPH, when possibly, that's now too much, I want that reading. Ouch! The insulin will have kicked in around 9:30, and will be starting to work.

In effect, too, having dropped the after-walk kibble, I've changed his food; again that might reduce Kumbi's insulin reuirements, even more.

Back in a while; not sure when! Now i really need naps!

Sat, 15 May 2010 10:45:32 (PDT)

CarolW
05-15-2010, 08:43 PM
Mummy! Quit STICKING me! I KNOW you're a porcupine, like Kwali - but your quills are PENS (for writing) NOT Stick-Me-In-The-Lipsie!
Okay, Kumbi; we're through for the night. Maybe we won't need to stick so much tomorrow. We'll see.
Pens? Okay, here are the Hairy-Scary last two days - yesterday and today.

Friday, 14 May 2010 - SCARY KIBBLE DAY
(no fasting reading; wasn't I nice to you, Kumbi?)
Meds 06:29
Breakfast 06:30
07:01 - 27.0 mmol/L = 407 mg/dL
Insulin - 7.25 iu
Walk - mod pace, low excite, 08:30 (36 min)
Treats - a quarter tsp MFF canned
Walk - mod pace, low excite 13:36 (37 min)
Treats - a quarter tsp MFF canned
15:00 - 4.6 = 83 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp MFF canned
15:15 - 4.6 = 83 mg/dL
Treat - three soaked kibbles (Mummy is scared)
15:30 - 4.8 = 86 mg/dL
Treat - one soaked kibble (still scared)
16:02 - 5.4 = 97 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp canned (RELIEF, but we need higher)
17:00 - 10.8 = 195 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp canned
18:30 - 23.6 = 425 mg/dL (not THAT high, Kumbi!)
Meds / Supper - 18:30
19:00 - 30.0 = 541 mg/dL
Insulin / Food - 7.0 iu - CUT from 7.25 iu (19:00)
20:00 - 28.1 = 506 mg/dL

Saturday, 15 May 2010; 07:15:01

06:31 - 13.8 = 249 mg/dL
Meds, breakfast, 06:31
07:01 - 18.3 = 330 mg/dL (moderate food spike)
Food / Insulin - 7.0 units
Walk - snfexpl pace, light excite (cat) 08:46 35 min
Treat - a quarter tsp MFF canned
11:00 - 12.2 = 220 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp MFF canned
14:00 - 11.8 = 213 mg/dL
Walk - mod pace, low excite - 14:04 33 min
14:40 - 8.4 = 151 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp of canned food
15:00 - 7.3 = 132 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp of canned food
16:00 - 5.2 = 94 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp of canned food
17:00 - 5.5 = 99 mg/dL
Treat - a quarter tsp of canned food
Kumbi resting all afternoon after walk
18:30 - 7.7L = 139 mg/dL
Supper, Meds, 18:30
19:00 - 17.6 = 317 mg/dL (HUGE food spike!)
Food and Insulin 6.5 iu

CarolW
05-17-2010, 03:24 AM
Gosh. Even though I've been reducing Kumbi's insulin dose, he went rather low again this afternoon - oops, well, YESTERDAY afternoon, because it's already tomorrow today.

Isn't this cute:


Sunday, 16 May 2010
-----------------------

06:30 - 15.7 mmol/L = 283 mg/dL
07:00 - 21.8 mmol/L = 393 mg/dL (insulin - 6.5 iu; 07:00)
15:00 - 5.0 mmol/L = 90 mg/dL
15:30 - 4.7 mmol/L = 85 mg/dL
16:00 - 5.1 mmol/L = 92 mg/dL
18:30 - 14.6 mmol/L = 263 mg/dL
19:00 - 24.8 mmol/L = 447 mg/dL (cut insulin to 6.0 iu, 19:00)


i resisted the temptation to give any extra kibble - now glad of that. Didn't see any behavioral signs of hypo, but I surely was watching Kumbi!

It's VERY possible that there were two reasons Kumbi dropped low today - I mean, yesterday.

One was, that he's come off antibiotics, and we WILL need to get the insulin dose adjusted correctly as a result of that.

The OTHER, though, is something that happens occasionally, and that, I must always allow for, because there's no predicting when such a thing might occur. That is, this monring (sorry, yesterday morning), as we left on our walk, Kumbi alerted, barked, and pulled on the leash. I love it when he feels good and can do that. Buit we don't have the pulling going on for long; it's not necessary.

On the same walk, he had another very strong alert, with lots of pulling - when a neighbor dog who is constantly running loose approached us on the road. We had a period of pulling after that. Finally, a third dog was observing us from the end of her driveway; she isn't usually doing that. Kumbi stood watching for a time.

I was thinking, during that walk, likely, Kumbi would be dropping low in the afternoon. Sure enough; he did.

Finally, I put charts together; Kumbi's charts for 14-15 May are together in one graph - and for today - oops (seriously, I forget what day it is)

New charts begin here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbiwater2.php

Here are readings for two days:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgsgolow1.php

I'm going to bed. Kumbi is telling me to.

Mon, 17 May 2010 02:24:13 (PDT)

CarolW
05-18-2010, 09:59 AM
I've been reducing Kumbi's insulin dose the last few days, since he began dropping uncomfortably low in mid-afternoon glucose levels.

This tactic seems to be doing some good, though I'll have to continue at the lowered insulin dose for some days before I can be certain it's the useful approach.

Yesterday started high, at 30.6 mmol/L (551 mg/dL) but the afternoon and evening numbers improved from previous days. Today's readings were considerably lower in the morning, holding Kumbi's dose steady at my current choice of 6.0 iu (Novolin-NPH).

Tuesday, 18 May 2010

06:30 - 18.9 mmol/L = 341 mg/dL
07:00 - 23.5 mmol/L = 423 mg/dL

I've put up more charts to show various effects.

A chart showing Sunday and Monday, 16-17 May 2010, is here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kureduceinsulin1.php

Other related charts are listed here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

In particular, the ones showing low glucose in the afernoon are, I think, interesting! And very instructive, at least, to me!

Kumbi goes today for a repeat geriatric blood panel; appointment shortly after noon.

Results maybe tomorrow or the next day. Holding my breath! NO! Remember to breathe!

Tue, 18 May 2010 08:57:37 (PDT)

CarolW
05-20-2010, 01:08 AM
I'll have to get a copy of the second bloodwork results; liver values are still poor. Next step will be a test for pancreatitis - maybe Kumbi has chronic pancreatitis! It wouldnt surprise me.

Poor Kumbi has been through far too much BG testing for his liking lately, as I try to settle his dose. I really think something happened to reduce his insulin requirements; not sure what - for one thing, coming off antibiotics, but his requirements, I think, had reduced before that, too, and I really thought he was rebounding.

I mentioned that to Dr. Carla this evening. She didn't say yes nor no.

But agreed I might just as well continue on six units of Novolin NPH for the time being. And thinks it's okay to give Kumbi some break from such heavy testing - I was testing five and six times a day.

LANCET PROBLEM!

I've been using 21-gauge lancets; they make our lives a dream; Kumbi just doesn't bleed easily. With the 21-gauge, he bleeds right away, and without pain, and we can test in about half a minute.

I was running low on the lancets, so tried to get more - NOT AVAILABLE! In fact, discontinued! I must have bought a very old box off the pharmacy shelf. How was I to know!

So now I'm on a search for 21-gauge lancets. Maybe I'll start a new thread to ask for help with that.

Also, Kumbi does seem to be aiming in a good direction on the six units, and I think this is a good time to give him a break. I might or might not test him at nadir time. Wouldn't hurt to give him another five-day break from all testing, as long as I'm right with him all the time, which I am!

Also, I've been charting, day-by-day; the charts are listed on the Parts List of this page;

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

I'm also working on a chart that incorporates four of the mini-curves. That kind of chart is always interesting.

Thu, 20 May 2010 00:06:42 (PDT)
How DID it get to be so late? Oh, typical!

k9diabetes
05-20-2010, 08:59 AM
I would aim for a dose based solely on the low blood sugar for now. Maybe the antibiotic cleared up something like tooth problems that had been contributing to a higher insulin requirement.

Natalie

CarolW
05-22-2010, 09:35 PM
hey, Natalie - indeed, I've been using Kumbi's lows to adjust doses - thought i was safe, this morning, to raise by half a unit. I reported that to my vets. They're off now on holiday till Tuesday, and I have no emergency service, so whatever happens, I have to cope with on my own.

Wouldn't you know -his "nadir" (estimated at 15:30) reading today was slightly high -10.4 mmol/L = 187 mg/dL - nothing to be upset about with that, in particular - just a bit of a wobble, perhaps.

BUT - at 18:30, fasting, his glucose was 26.3 mmol/L = 474 mg/dL - THAT is very high for his fasting reading.

Kumbi can spike up to 10 mmol/L = 108 mg/dL - and even a bit more, on his meals. So perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised when he read HI at 19:00.

I contininued with the dose increase, giving 6.5 units of Novolin-NPH, instead of the 6.0 I've been giving for almost a week. I based the dose decision on the speed with which I'd cut when I dropped to 6.0 units - but maybe I should only have gone up a quarter unit.

Another factor here is that Kumbi got SOMETHING from the verge on his afternoon walk today. I'm hoping THAT is what caused the HI reading. It certainly could be. I have no idea what he got into, but it was something!

I just tested again, at 20:00 - perhaps a futile test, as the insulin takes at least 1.5 hours to kick in, going by all previous records (lots of them). As I might have expected, he read HI again (this is the OneTouch Ultra2, which reads HI at anything over 33.3 mmol/L = 600 mg;dL).

I'll take another reading at 21:00, and whether I continue after that remains to be seen. If he's down into giving me a reading instead of HI, I MIGHT take one more reading some time later - we'll see. If he's still Hi, I will take more readings till he comes down, which I absolutely expect him to do!

I'm distressed to learn that the OneTouch Ultra2 does NOT show the time of the reading when it reports HI! WOW! I had NO IDEA!

But I know the time of the reading, to the minute, because I'm using my Computer Calendarscope - and its allied DS Clock - to prompt me to take readings. The DS (Duality Software) Clock program displays time to the second, and integrates my computer-time with an atomic clock of my choice.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/calendarscope.php

At this point, I'm telling myself not to panic, but just to proceed, keep an eye on Kumbi, and - as far as possible, relax. But I can't eat my supper. Not surprising. I'll get something into myself later, before going to bed for the night, assuming I DO go to bed for the night; haha!

I'm working on remembering to breathe. Kumbi FEELS okay. He was negative for ketones at 19:05. He's drinking a fair bit of water. Good boy, Kumbi!

Now *I* am putting on Vekkie's Patience Hat. What a way to begin what is a holiday weekend here.

Gosh!

I'll report back.

Sat, 22 May 2010 20:32:02 (PDT)

eileen
05-22-2010, 09:48 PM
ah, Carol, sorry to see that you're getting these HI readings with Kumbi.

Fortunately I haven't seen these with Mil since her high triglyceride issues this past December and then luckily since I have Humalog on hand I'm easily able to get them down.
Must say, that is one huge advantage to using a rapid or fast acting insulin...it helps in other times of need.

I have no doubt you'll work thru this and figure it out.
Glad that fellow is showing no signs of distress from his higher bgs.

CarolW
05-22-2010, 10:44 PM
Hi Eileen,

GOSH; it is just fabulous to have my great buddies here to help out when I come close to panic, and try to keep a cool (YEAH, RIGHT!) head!

I AM considering rebound, and thinking maybe I should have raised Kumbi's dose by a quarter-unit instead of a half-unit (twice daily).

But by all the numbers, accompanied by other changes I made when I did (and all those charts REALLY helped me make that decision) - I THINK my decision to go for 6.5 units twice daily was reasonable, and I strongly doubt Kumbi's HI readings were rebound.

My reading at 21:00 was:

21:00 - 30.7 mmol/L = 553 mg/d|L

NEVER did such a reading look good to me before! Right now, though, I'm deliriously happy with it! I WILL test at least once more tonight, at 23:00, because I want to know how FAST he's coming down. Whether I'll stay up (or get up) for more readings after that remains to be seen. It depends partly on what I get at 23:00.

Kumbi's insulin does kick in as advertised, about 1.5 hours after injection (I inject at 19:00). It's quite some time since I tried to pin down a rather exact time, and I don't want to do that now, when I've been testing Kumbi so very much for quite some time now.

The last two days, I've been urgently searching for those 21-gauge lancets both Kumbi and I like so much. But I'm now hoarding my remaining - approximately nine - 21-gauge lancets.

Maybe I shouldn't worry. I'm now on a search for 23-gauge lancets, which would probably do the job equally well. I'll report on the lancet situation in the other thread, on 21-gauge lancets. A bit later.

I'm going to get some food into ME at this point! I'm immensely relieved. If I feel I need to test for a low, I should do it around 03:00, assuming night patterns (if not readings) match daytime ones passably well. I'll say this about Kumbi; he is very consistent, so that helps me make decisions at a time like this.

Interesting about the Humalog. If I were using it, I suppose I'd have considered nudging his glucose a bit with it this evening. But if I were to do that, going by what I've learned from you, I'd have had to do it BEFORE feeding him. No way would I do it after having given him his usual insulin dose (19:00) - UNLESS I thought he was dying. Or going into DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis, for those unfamiliar with the abbreviation).

I came SO close to skipping buying more test strips this past Thursday, Hunt Day - because I had enough to do three readings a day till NEXT Hunt Day, which is Senior Day, so I get my discount that day. But then I asked myself, what if suddenly something happens that makes me need to test more? Would I be without test strips? NO THANKS!

So I went to buy the test strips - you have to buy 50 at a time; they don't sell 25 at a time. Funny; they were out of boxes of 50, and had to break open a box of 100 to sell me the 50!

Funnier still - and lovely - this past Thursday was an unannounced EXTRA Senior Day - so I got my discount after all! Which I really needed. As it was, I cut deeply into my own food budget to buy the test strips, but I do have enough to eat - just not the variety I'd go for, given a choice.

I'd also checked my supply of 25-gauge lancets, and I had about half a box of 100 left, and thought that was more than enough, if I must use them. And now, it seems I'll need to buy another box of those, as if I can locate 23-gauge lancets, it will take a while to bring them in.

So, I'm now warming Kumbi's lip again before pricking. At least I've improved my technique a bit, so it only takes about two minutes for the entire procedure, instead of the five or so it used to take at times. With the 21-gauge lancets, it's less than a minute.

Kumbi is being really good. I KNOW he's not expecting more testing this evening, so I'm trying to avoid cueing him that another test is coming; haha! I think I'll succeed, and be able to keep him from running away.

When I get upset, I surely do babble. Okay, so I babble almost all the time! Gonna go get some supper into me. With greasy fingers, I won't be typing, as I have a lovely greasy sandwich to eat.

I can read, though!

Thanks for your extra support, dear buddy Eileen!

Sat, 22 May 2010 21:44:22 (PDT)

CarolW
05-23-2010, 01:26 PM
I'm falling asleep again, so this is nothing much; just a quickie update.

BOOKMARK dose change TO 6.5 iu (from 6.0 begun Sun 16 May 2010, eve.)

Saturday, 22 May 2010; 06:47:32

06:31 - 19.1 mmol/L = 344 mg/dL
07:01 - 27.1 mmol/L = 488 mg/dL (DOSE CHANGE to 6.5 iu (from 6.0)
11:00 - 14.4 mmol/L = 259 mg/dL
15:30 - 10.4 mmol/L = 187 mg/dL
18:30 - 26.3 mmol/L = 474 mg/dL
19:00 - HI - above 33.3 mmol/L = 600+ mg/dL (Insulin 6.5 iu; 19:00)
Ketones - negative; 19:05
20:00 - HI (above 33.3 mmol/L = above 600 mg/dL
21:00 - 30.7 mmol/L = 553 mg/d|L (relief!)
23:00 - 25.3 mmol/L = 456 mg/dL

Sunday, 23 May 2010; 06:44:36

06:30 - 18.6 mmol/L = 335 mg/dL
07:01 - 22.4 mmol/L = 404 mg/dL

Sun, 23 May 2010 12:26:15 (PDT)

CarolW
05-23-2010, 10:33 PM
Kumbi's numbers today are likely a kind of follow-up to yesterday's indiscretion (Verge-Junk-Food, whatever it was), but his evening numbers took me a bit by surprise - that is, Kumbi didn't have his usual LARGE food spike. And his nadir-time - not very unusual, seemed to be right before his supper, but then, he didn't have anything like his usual food-spike after his supper.

That spike came later; it shows at his 9 p.m. reading.

Apart from his Verge-Junk-Food Venture, I'm guessing my increase from 6.0 to 6.5 units of Novolin-NPH was JUST a smidgeon too much (I'm still guessing), so in the morning (tomorrow), depending on his morning numbers fasting and pre-insulin, I might deliver 6.25 units, and try to stick with that for some time.

Review of yesterday, beginning with the nasties:

Saturday, 22 May 2010; 06:47:32
...
18:30 - 26.3 mmol/L = 474 mg/dL
19:01 - HI - above 33.3 mmol/L = 600+ mg/dL (Insulin 6.5 iu; 19:01)
Ketones - negative; 19:05
20:01 - HI (above 33.3 mmol/L = above 600 mg/dL
21:00 - 30.7 mmol/L = 553 mg/d|L (relief!)
23:00 - 25.3 mmol/L = 456 mg/dL

By the way, I learned that although the OneTouch Ultra2 does NOT show the time on the display when it displays the HI notice, it DOES show the time if you use the menu, pick All Results, and go to the HI readings. That's a relief! I found it hard to believe the meter wouldn't record the TIMES of HI readings.

Kumbi's numbers today:

BOOKMARK - CUT DOSE, EVENING; to 6.0 iu
(from 6.5 iu)

Sunday, 23 May 2010; 06:44:36

06:30 - 18.6 mmol/L = 335 mg/dL
07:01 - 22.4 mmol/L = 404 mg/dL (6.5 iu)
15:31 - 11.6 mmol/L = 209 mg/dL
18:30 - 8.2 mmol/L = 148 mg/dL
19:01 - 8.9 mmol/L = 160 mg/dL (Gave 6.0 iu, 19:01) - CUT DOSE!
21:01 - 17.7 mmol/L = 319 mg/dL

Maybe I shouldn't have chickened out and cut the dose; I'm likely to bring it back up to 6.25 units in the morning, if Kumbi's numbers seem to allow that. Then, of course, will need to test in the afternoon and evening. Gosh! Using a lot of 25-gauge lancets, not to mention, paper towels!

Wishing Dozer and Ozzi an easy re-stabilizing after their hypos.

Kumbi, you got lucky; no more pricks tonight.

Sun, 23 May 2010 21:31:22 (PDT)

ozzi
05-24-2010, 07:41 AM
Hi Carol!

Thanks for your help and support over the past few days! I was looking at Kumbi's numbers for Sunday and thought that it probably was a good idea to cut the dose a bit given the 6:30 pm BG reading of 148 and 7 PM reading at 160 when he gets insulin. I agree that increasing him to 6.25 units is worth trying, and if he does well, holding him there for a while.

I'm working on my own theory (at least with Ozzi) that canines might process things completely differently and slower than humans! For example, I gave Ozzi a TON of sugar yesterday, and it took him almost 3 hours to increase his BG from 43 to 75! I know that if a person ate what I gave Ozzi, their sugar would have increased much more quickly, even temporarily. My other observation is that Ozzi appears to have great regulation, and then all of a sudden plummets! So I'm wondering if he (or all dogs) just process things more slowly in general somehow. I don't know a thing about veterinary medicine, but I think it would be a fascinating study for a vet student if it hasn't already been done!

I guess the point is that I'm realizing how much different dogs are from people (in so many, mostly wonderful ways!), and I'm wondering how their metabolisms compare in general.

In the meantime, keep us updated on Kumbi, and let's hope all our dogs continue on the path toward regulation...whatever that is!! LOL
Kevin

CarolW
05-25-2010, 03:27 AM
My computer is making strange noises - that is, something to do with software, I believe - if I disappear, something has gone fishy, and I'll have to inject it with insulin.

Meantime, here are yesterday's numbers. I plan to give Kumbi a two-day break from pricks, apart from checks at assumed nadir-time, unless I see something uncomfortable at nadir time - or any other time! Kumbi's insulin is Novolin-NPH.

Monday, 24 May 2010

06:31 - 16.8 mmol/L = 303 mg/dL (fed; 06:31)
07:01 - 19.6 mmol/L = 353 mg/dL (gave 6.25 iu, 07:01)
15:31 - 14.9 mmol/L = 268 mg/dL
18:32 - 12.0 mmol/L = 216 mg/dL (fed, 18:33)
19:00 - 20.3 mmol/L = 366 mg/dL (gave 6.25 iu, 19:00)

Still running rather high, but this is looking at least more stable, and when I resume at least 3 tests a day, I may again try the 6.5 unit twice daily dose.

Kumbi's HI the other day was almost certainly the result of whatever it was he ate from the road-verge. He seems okay otherwise, but you can bet I'm watching!

Tue, 25 May 2010 02:25:38 (PDT)

CarolW
05-25-2010, 09:33 AM
My computer is still making unexplained noises - sounds like a notification of some kind - I have a question in on the best list I know for computer help - sort of like this one for diabetic dogs:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Computer_Help_and_Discussion/

BET I hit a wrong key and changed some configuration, while beginning maintenance last night!

Anyway drat; I chickened out, and I'm taking my full five readings today - fasting, pre-insulin, and assumed nadir- time - and yesterday and today, Kumbi's FOOD SPIKES are considerably lessened!

VERY interesting, as he's also running fairly high, but after his two HI readings a couple of days ago, I'm holding steady for the moment with 6.25 units of Novolin-NPH (twice daily).

Need to make an extra trip to town today; drat; Kumbi will come with me, but nothing nerve-wracking about the trip for him, so all should go well. I trust.

Numbers so far today:

Tuesday, 25 May 2010

06:30 - 22.1 mmol/L = 398 mg/dL (fed; 06:30)
07:01 - 24.9 mmol/L = 449 mg/dL (6.25 iu; 07:01)

I'm also working on a couple of different charts, one individual, and one with several days' readings; this latter includes Kumbi's two HI readings. Weird-looking and interesting charts; if I can just get them put together and cleaned up! You KNOW when I have them done, I'll add them to the series of charts I call Curve Journey.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

It's sweat, maknig the charts, but I'm learning so much about how Kumbi's BGs vary with events!

Tue, 25 May 2010 08:32:02 (PDT)

peggy0
05-25-2010, 08:14 PM
I can't see your question on that board Carol. What is your computer doing and what Software Operating system are you running?

CarolW
05-26-2010, 01:17 AM
Hi Peggy,

To see the messages there, you have to be a member, which means you need to request to join the group - and have your membership approved, first. THEN you can see the questions. And, of course, post! Posts by new members are moderated.

As far as I can see, the group is largely about PCs (running Windows), though I think Mac or Apple questions are welcome too. For PC users in particular (that includes me), you usually get a reply to your question, and it's usually helpful - almost immediately. They have several moderators, so the group works almost around the clock. I just don't know how much they work with Mac or Apple.

I see so much eminent good sense there! It's a VERY busy group, so if you don't want to download a lot of mail; best set yourself to "Special Notices" (read on the web, but receive any particularly important notices from the moderators by email). I download mail, though - all the messages.

Anyway, I did replace my mouse, and NOW, my challenge is, learning how to handle the new mouse, which jumps around a lot.

Kumbi is priding himself on resisting the temptation to rush after the jumping mouse. (Yeah right!) But this has to be somewhat on-topic, as I'm bringing in a few Kumbi-numbers here, and also telling a bit of a Kumbi-story. (yikes; I'm REALLY being logical tonight; yeah, right!)

The Dead Mouse problem really set me back; I was trying to put together a coherent letter for my vet, reporting on the weekend's vagaries, but ouch! So I located a mouse, drove way into the Big City to get one; and got permission to take Kumbi into the store with me. He quite enjoyed it!

I was fascinated that when we had a clear path - aisle - Kumbi strode out ahead! Without a clear path, he hung back a bit; talking to him, saying known cues, such as, "Follow," and "Turn," helped him out some. He also got some pats from a few interested people. He really liked that; he's a sociable dog with humans. Is scared of dogs bigger than he is, but we didn't meet any in the store.

I turned the mouse-pad upside-down to get a rougher surface; that does help stop the mouse-jumping, but I'm a bit slow - getting the hang of it, though.

We stopped at the vet's on the way, and caught a few words with Main Vet Dr. Amanda - lovely to have that. She's going off for a conference in the U.S. in a couple of weeks, and will try to bring back a couple of boxes of 21-gauge lancets, if she manages to get to a pharmacy.

Dr. Feldman is one of the speakers at the conferece. She's planning to try to talk to him after the event - to talk about Kumbi, his numbers, and the the whole situation. She plans to ask what his gut feeling is about Cushings. Could be really interesting.

She suggests not rushing into ultrasound - wait and see, first. She thinks the dental situation can wait. She DOES want me to keep coming up with his numbers, so I'll do that. Kumbi will be brave and good, though he'll still try to evade every prick!

I know my Kumbi!

Today, Kumbi had a couple of Medi-Cal biscuits, while I muttered, "There goes his glucose!" Yet - his numbers could have been a lot worse than they turned out for today.

Tuesday, 25 May 2010

06:30 - 22.1 mmol/L = 398 mg/dL (fed; 06:30)
07:01 - 24.9 mmol/L = 449 mg/dL (6.25 iu; 07:01)
15:30 - 14.5 mmol/L = 261 mg/dL
18:31 - 16.7 mmol/L = 301 mg/dL (fed; 18:31)
19:01 - 19.7 mmol/L = 355 mg/dL (6.25 iu; 19:01)

Note the lessened food spikes! Still running very high for comfort, and I'll hold at 6.25 units for at least a few more days, and then once more try the 6.5 units, but I plan a curve, first.

Hoping I can get at least some 23-gauge lancets in Canada before doing the curve, but, in case, I do have about nine 21-gauge lancets left, and will use those on curve-day.

Dr. Amanda still doesn't have my report that includes his HI readings from his Road-Verge indulgence, but I told Dr. Amanda about that, and she grinned. Guess I'll have to work on that report and send it tomorrow - oops - it's already tomorrow tonight.

Now I also want to catch up on some of the other threads here. I find it really interesting that most who arrive here new have similar difficulties.

Part of a difficulty, I think, is when vets don't communicate well, or enough, or (obviously) lack experience, and the poor Human Dog-Parent is left high-and-dry with nothing like enough assistance.

Not too many have the kind of frustrations Fiona and Chikki have, not being able to get needed supplies. And our new Scottish friend - the one Margaret is helping (sorry for my bad memory - can't remember her name) - has other, somewhat different, frustrations; I gather, for instance, the vet being wary of Human Dog-Parent doing glucose-testing.

We do have a real variety here; yet the nature of the problems is similar - in that ALL of us want to do our best for our dogs.

Guess I'm starting to babble, so I should finish this off.

Wed, 26 May 2010 00:17:03 (PDT)

CarolW
06-01-2010, 12:53 PM
Ain't been posting here; been doing charts. And sleeping - a little bit; still not enough. And learning to control my jumping Mouse.

Kumbi's BGs, 26-31 May 2010:

Wednesday, 26 May 2010

06:31 - 17.2 mmol/L = 310 mg/dL (fed; 06:31)
07:03 - 17.6 mmol/L = 317 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH - 6.25 iu; 07:03)
15:31 - 13.9 mmol/L = 250 mg/d|L
18:30 - 18.3 mmol/L = 333 mg/dL (fed; 18:30)
19:01 - 23.8 mmol/L = 429 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH - 6.25 iu; 19:01)


Thursday, 27 May 2010

06:31 - 15.9 mmol/L = 267 mg/dL (fed; 06:31)
07:01 - 18.9 mmol/L = 341 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH - 6.25 iu; (07:01)
15:31 - 16.0 mmol/L = 288 mg/dL
18:31 - 13.1 mmol/L = 236 mg/dL (fed; 18;31)
19:01 - 14.5 mmol/L = 261 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.25 iu; 19:01)


Friday, 28 May 2010

06:30 - 20.7 mmol/L = 373 mg/dL (fed; 06:30)
07:01 - 26.2 mmol/L = 472 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.25 iu; 07:01)
15:30 - 21.2 mmol/L = 382 mg/dL
18:31 - 19.8 mmol/L = 357 mg/dL (fed; 18:31)
19:01 - 20.7 mmol/L = 373 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.25 iu; 19:01)


BOOKMARK - raise from 6.25 to 6.5 iu, 07:00; Saturday, 29 May 2010

Saturday, 29 May 2010

06:31 - 23.7 mmol/L = 427 mg/dL (fed; 06:31)
07:01 - 27.6 mmol/L = 497 mg/dL (RAISED Novolin-NPH to 6.5 iu; 07:01)
09:01 - 24.2 mmol/L = 436 mg/dL
11:03 - 19.6 mmol/L = 353 mg/dL
13:01 - 23.1 mmol/L = 416 mg/dL
15:01 - 17.6 mmol/L = 317 mg/dL
17:05 - 13.9 mmol/L = 250 mg/dL
18:31 - 13.5 mmol/L = 243 mg/dL (fed; 18:31)
19:01 - 15.6 mmol/L = 281 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.5 iu; 19:01)


Sunday, 30 May 2010

06:31 - 16.5 mmol/L = 297 mg/dL (fed; 06:31)
07:01 - 20.1 mmol/L = 362 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.5 iu, 07:01)
15:31 - 7.6 mmol/L = 137 mg/dL
17:00 - 12.6 mmol/L = 227 mg/dL
18:30 - 23.8 mmol/L = 429 mg/dL (fed; 18:30)
19:01 - 27.1 mmol/L = 488 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.5 iu; 19:01)


Monday, 31 May 2010

06:30 - 24.6 mmol/L = 443 mg/dL (fed; 06:31)
07:01 - 25.4 mmol/L = 458 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.5 iu; 07:01)
15:31 - 9.3 mmol/L = 168 mg/dL
17:04 - 8.8 mmol/L = 159 mg/dL
18:31 - 7.8 mmol/L = 141 mg/dL (fed; 18:31)
19:01 - 12.5 mmol/L = 223 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.5 iu; 19:01)

Today, so far, we have this:

Tuesday, 01 June 2010; 06:43:50

06:31 - 16.9 mmol/L = 305 mg/dL (fed; 06:31)
07:01 - 19.7 mmol/L = 355 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.5 iu; 07:01)

During our walk this morning, Kumbi got something off the verge - maybe berry-sized - about an hour ago. Ohhhhh, nooooooooo!

We'll see how it goes.

Charts, with comments, are here:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgdosechk.php

and

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgcrvnpart.php

I'm going to rest and play today; MUST get more sleep; special greetings to all forum members who are struggling with glucose leaps and hops - maybe they're riding my computer mouse! The Gwobblers are out there! (Glucose Wobblers - little critters!)

Tue, 1 Jun 2010 11:42:27 (PDT)

CarolW
06-02-2010, 10:22 AM
I reported in the Syringe Question thread - I just CAN'T BELIEVE (yes, I can!) I actually used a SECOND BAD SYRINGE on Kumbi - this morning! So, instead of giving the intended 6.25 iu of Novolin-NPH insulin, I gave approximately 6.5 iu - it was about a quarter-unit that the plunger went beyond zero.

Here's my new page, and the previous one is new, too.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kubgbadsyr.php

Since the markings on the barrel were straight, not crooked, I thought I could make a good estimate.

Possibly Kumbi's low readings yesterday afternoon were the result of my using one of those bad syringes, I now believe it was Monday evening, 31 May, at 7 p.m., that I used a bad syringe, delivering an extra quarter - or even half - unit. Probably it was an extra quarter-unit, and I gave 6.75 iu instead of the intended 6.5 iu.

But Kumbi has a cough, and part of the low readings might be fluctuation due to infection.

We have a vet appointment for four this afternoon (Pacific Daylight Time). My beloved highly-educated office-person Debbie answered the phone, and also said, if Kumbi has any trouble breathing, bring him in immediately.

This clinic is just too wonderful for words. We'll be seeing Dr. Amanda, if we don't have to RUSH Kumbi in. Maybe, even if we do!

He seems just fine now, after a half hour of perhaps trying to cough something up! I swiped his mouth out - he seems to feel a lot better, and he's bright-eyed, and apparently ready for a walk, so off we go!

Wed, 2 Jun 2010 09:20:23 (PDT)

Patty
06-03-2010, 09:22 AM
Carol,
I do hope Sunday and Monday were just due to bad syringes. That quite a fluctuation.

I had a long talk with my vet yesterday, when I took Kumbi in because he was suddenly coughing a lot more than before. (Seems to be trachea-collapse; his heart and lungs are good;

What can they do for trachea collapse Carol? How's Kumbi doing today?
Patty

ladysmom06
06-05-2010, 12:33 PM
Hi Carol,

Checking to see how Kumbi is doing - is he still coughing? Hugs to the two of you.

CarolW
06-05-2010, 01:05 PM
Kumbi was coughing so badly yesterday that I took him in, two days after his previous exam, when Dr. Amanda thought it might be collapsing trachea. She would have taken chest xrays but was trying to save me money. She put Kumbi on Torbutrol to suppress cough, 1.25 mg every 8 hours - as a trial.

But we got no improvement in two days, so in we went again.

Dr. Carla took xrays; they showed some kind of lesion in the right-side lung, which could be an abscess; we're hoping it's nothing worse than that, and that it will respond to antibiotics.

So for now, we have Kumbi on Clavamox again (same stuff as the Clavaseptin he was on for quite a while beginning 23 March, ending 12 May.

LAST time we did this, the antibiotic stopped the cough, but I don't think he was coughing as badly as THIS the last time.

Dr. Carla says it'll take 4-to-5 days for the cough to clear, if the antibiotic is going to work.

Meantime, I'm to keep Kumbi fairly quiet. He's coughing on and off, for fairly long periods. He is NOT happy, but he's coping. Typcial Kumbi!

I'm still tracking his glucose levels, as the Clavamox may change his insulin requirements. Now that his nadir or trough time has recently been clearly established at around 5 P.M., sometimes later (6:30, just before his supper), I've decided to move his afternoon BG check from 15:30 to 17:00.

Please wish us a LOT of luck; we could really use that right now! The vet is letting me pile up a big bill, though I have no help in sight right now!

I see other dogs here who are having really serious troubles, and my heart goes out to them and their humans. If Kumbi's lesion is merely an abscess, we're in many ways better off than those dogs - two good vets to care for Kumbi - that really helps.

So when wishing Kumbi well, please save a large reserve, for the other dogs who especially need it right now, such as Chikki and Alfie.

Lucy, too, but she has a better vet! (Sorry if I missed somebody!)

Sat, 5 Jun 2010 12:00:19 (PDT)

eileen
06-05-2010, 01:49 PM
oh, Carol, sending every ounce of positive energy to both you and Kumbi that I can muster up!

hugs

Noodle
06-05-2010, 02:19 PM
Ah, poor Kumbi - I hope they get to the bottom of this coughing and that it turns out to be something relatively easy (and low cost!) to treat. Kumbi has certainly been "high maintenance lately, lol.

Thinking of you & Kumbi and sending positive thoughts - to both of you and all of the the others struggling lately.

Patty
06-05-2010, 02:45 PM
Carol,
Praying the antibiotics will take care of things for Kumbi! and he will feel better soon!!

I was at Wal-Mart today and found a box of Monolet lancets but they didn't list a gauge size. They were a mix of colors. I can't even find something that matches up to them online. I was looking for you though.

Patty

diggydog
06-05-2010, 02:57 PM
Carol sending u and kumbi good healing thoughts xx

Tikobird
06-05-2010, 05:45 PM
Carol - me & Dozer have you and everyone else in our prayers....

Ladybug
06-05-2010, 06:18 PM
Carol,

Big hugs from me and lots of wet kisses from Ladybug...we just know things are going to work out fine!

Linda and Ladybug

CarolW
06-05-2010, 08:29 PM
Quickie update, as I get ready to stab Kumbi again, with my newfound do-the-testing-properly schedule!

Kumbi is coughing a bit less -WHEW! GREAT relief! - it was SO bad this morning and early afternoon. Dr. Carla added Baytril to the mix, just-in-case there's some element that might require that. She also said to put Kumbi back on the Torbutrol, which I did immediately after the clinic phoned. He can have the Torbutrol (cough suppressant) once every 8 hours.

Now he's coughing still, but quite a lot less, so I'm hoping the antibiotics will take, and things will improve. We will see!

Kumbi is SUCH a trooper! His glucose is doing okay, slightly higher than previous days, possibly partly from going back on antibiotics. I'll be watching that; probably raise him a quarter unit in the morning from 6.25 iu to 6.5 iu (Novolin-NPH).

I have another plunger-beyond-zero syringe, but the markings are straight, so I'll probably use it in the morning! just measure 6.25 iu instead of 6.5, but I'll also note the fact that I've done so! - that the markings are bad. Looks like a very clean measure, though, or I wouldn't attempt it.

Kumbi and I thank you all for your so-many good wishes. Basically, Kumbi really is a trooper, and I have confidence he'll come through this, with some encouragement and proper assistance from the vets (they really are good! - very dependable, no-nonsense, vets, flexible thinking, and very much team-mates). That's where we have huge advantages!

I interrupted myself writing this, because my luverly Calendarscope program told me to draw Kumbi's insulin, warm it, do his BG test, and shoot him in the back (in the light, because it's nice and light outside, and we don't have a power failure, so I don't have to shoot him in the back in the dark).

Again Kumbi joins me, both in thanking you all for being such great buddies - it means a lot to both of us - and also, sending our best wishes to all those having difficulties. We are watching. Kwali roots for everybody from her lofty position at the Bridge. (Hi, Kwali! thanks!)

Sat, 5 Jun 2010 19:26:50 (PDT) - from a slightly distracted DogMum who REALLY leans on the computer to tell her what to do when!

k9diabetes
06-05-2010, 11:59 PM
I'm relieved to hear that Kumbi's cough seems to have eased a bit and am fervently hoping that the lesion found on x-ray goes away and quickly.

I know the finances are a big issue... given the lesion in the lung and the concerns about the liver, if I had to do one thing, it would be the ultrasound, not the Cushing's test. I think you would get a lot more valuable information.

Will be interesting to see how the question at the conference goes.

Do you have access to Care Credit?

Natalie

Dollydog
06-06-2010, 06:46 AM
Hi Carol,
I'm glad to hear that the coughing is easing....have been following your journey but haven't had anything to add to everyone else's comments. Hope the lesion is nothing too!
(((HUGS)))
Jo-Ann & my Dollydog angel & Victoria :)

Margaret Boyle
06-06-2010, 08:25 AM
Quickie update, as I get ready to stab Kumbi again, with my newfound do-the-testing-properly schedule!

Kumbi is coughing a bit less -WHEW! GREAT relief! - it was SO bad this morning and early afternoon. Dr. Carla added Baytril to the mix, just-in-case there's some element that might require that. She also said to put Kumbi back on the Torbutrol, which I did immediately after the clinic phoned. He can have the Torbutrol (cough suppressant) once every 8 hours.

Now he's coughing still, but quite a lot less, so I'm hoping the antibiotics will take, and things will improve. We will see!

Kumbi is SUCH a trooper! His glucose is doing okay, slightly higher than previous days, possibly partly from going back on antibiotics. I'll be watching that; probably raise him a quarter unit in the morning from 6.25 iu to 6.5 iu (Novolin-NPH).

I have another plunger-beyond-zero syringe, but the markings are straight, so I'll probably use it in the morning! just measure 6.25 iu instead of 6.5, but I'll also note the fact that I've done so! - that the markings are bad. Looks like a very clean measure, though, or I wouldn't attempt it.

Kumbi and I thank you all for your so-many good wishes. Basically, Kumbi really is a trooper, and I have confidence he'll come through this, with some encouragement and proper assistance from the vets (they really are good! - very dependable, no-nonsense, vets, flexible thinking, and very much team-mates). That's where we have huge advantages!

I interrupted myself writing this, because my luverly Calendarscope program told me to draw Kumbi's insulin, warm it, do his BG test, and shoot him in the back (in the light, because it's nice and light outside, and we don't have a power failure, so I don't have to shoot him in the back in the dark).

Again Kumbi joins me, both in thanking you all for being such great buddies - it means a lot to both of us - and also, sending our best wishes to all those having difficulties. We are watching. Kwali roots for everybody from her lofty position at the Bridge. (Hi, Kwali! thanks!)

Sat, 5 Jun 2010 19:26:50 (PDT) - from a slightly distracted DogMum who REALLY leans on the computer to tell her what to do when!


Hi Carol,

Sorry to hear Kumbi is having some problems, I hope all goes well fo Kumbi.

I would also go for the ultrasound Carol as it tell you a lot of info.

At the end of the day it what you and your vets decide on Carol and you have a good relationship with your vets.

It is just so frustrating that all these tests are so expensive :(

Your a good dog Mum Carol and Kumbi knows this, I will watch your posts Carol.

Our very best wishes.

Hugs to Kumbi and You

CarolW
06-06-2010, 10:01 AM
We are definitely having a rough spot in the path; next question is, will those antibiotics kick in and do the job? Can't tell yet; they haven't had TIME! We started them Friday evening with Kumbi's supper. Earliest they could kick in at all, I think, would be this evening (48 hours), but Dr Carla said, 3-5 days. Could easily be.

Meanwhile, Torbutrol is at least reducing Kumbi's coughing a bit - quite a bit, I'd say, though he has prolonged periods of coughing, and is really miserable with those.

I'm sticking close to Kumbi's normal routine - same as I always try to do. That's a big aid for a dog who is uncomfortable - have life go on as usual, as far as possible - but with any adaptations necessary to aid his comfort.

Too bad there aren't more than what we have right now!

I raised Kumbi's Novolin-NPH dose by a quarter unit this morning, as I think he JUST has room for that, though I might be pushing it, so I'll have to watch.

Giving meds with meals - Hepato liver support, Chinese herbs, Clavamox 125 mg twice daily, last night, added Baytril, 50 mg, once daily with supper. Torbutrol, 1.25 mg when needed, up to once every 8 hours. We missed a day of Torbutrol, re-started it yesterday at 2 p.m.

From my records text file:

Saturday, 05 June 2010

Bad day coughing - all morning; back on Torbutrol; 14:04)

06:36 - 19.4 mmol/L = 350 mg/dL (fed, 06:36)
07:01 - 22.7 mmol/L = 409 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.25 iu, 07:01)
17:00 - 9.4 mmol/L = 169 mg/dL
18:31 - 9.2 mmol/L = 166 mg/dL (fed, 18:31)
19:02 - 15.9 mmol/L = 287 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.25 iu, 19:02)

BOOKMARK - raise Kumbi's Novolin dose a quarter unit, to 6.5 iu
I'm assuming the lows leave room for this; hoping to cut slightly into the highs, morning and evening.

Sunday, 06 June 2010

06:33 - 18.8 mmol/L = 339 mg/dL (fed, 06:33)
07:02 - 21.2 mmol/L = 382 mg/dL (Novolin-NPH; 6.5 iu, 07:02)

With those numbers this morning, maybe I was wrong to add that quarter unit! We'll see; I'll check, and be careful. I didn't COMPARE the numbers with yesterday before injecting! You could say I'm a mite distracted. Or, a LOT distracted, which indicates the need for taking extra care, and paying extra attention, when under stress.

Thanks so much for all your good wishes. If we don't see dramatic improvement by tomorrow morning, we go in for repeat Xray. Then also, repeat bloodwork and a titer- for what, I didn't catch, but one of the bacterial possibilities.

However my friends, I'm not going to ask Kumbi to spend useless uncomfortable days, so I'm going to suggest Xray first, and depending on what that shows, I may ask the vet to help me send Kumbi to join Kwali at the Bridge, then and there. Dogs are too, too, TOO stoic, and my Terriers are no exception to this.

There's no such thing, ever, as me being ready to let a dog go, but the dog is the one who determines - and the dog tells me.

Hoping to get through and past this - but no promises.

Sun, 6 Jun 2010 09:01:18 (PDT)

CarolW
06-06-2010, 03:31 PM
My beloved buddies - Kumbi is having a really terrible time, with, so far, no sign of improvement. He's following me all around, looking for comfort - but I can't help him! Even the Torbutrol isn't stopping the coughing - perhaps reducing it a bit, though. I expect he'd be a lot worse off without it!

At this stage, I'm quite expecting to get the next Xray on him in the morning (tomorrow), and then to have him put down. Probably Dr. Amanda can't be there, though I wish she could, as she's been Kumbi's main vet all along - but she'll probably have left for the ACVIM conference in Anahem.

Dr Carla is great, though, and she's been at the clinic for a goodly number of years now, and ALSO knows Kumbi really well, so if we have to do this, her presence and action will also be a great comfort to me.

I have very little hope at this moment, though I'd delightedly get a big surprise with massive improvement overnight. Not likely.

You can count on me being here, though, and whether Kumbi remains on Earth or has taken his flight, he, like Kwali, will be with us too. Just from a bit of a distance!

I'm not wasting my tears - till AFTER Kumbi dies, whenever that might turn out to be. Trying to hang in there with Kumbi today, as he feels so bad. ACtually, if I were to indulge myself by crying, that would make Kumbi feel worse. NO WAY! For his sake, i'll hang on and act cheerful. I think I can do it okay. If not perfectly, almost!

Sun, 6 Jun 2010 14:25:48 (PDT)

BestBuddy
06-06-2010, 03:36 PM
Carol,
I am so sorry to read about the troubles you and Kumbi are having. I can only hope like you that there will be an improvement and good news on the xray.
I think you are doing the right thing by staying or trying to stay positive so that Kumbi can relax knowing you have everything under control and he doesn't have to worry.
Fingers crossed for some good news.
Jenny

eileen
06-06-2010, 03:56 PM
Carol, I'm saddened to read this. Will hold onto hope that tomorrow's xray does show good news.

Know that I'm with you, if only in spirit.

Ladybug
06-06-2010, 03:59 PM
Dear Carol,

doG mums know best...my heart is with you and Kumbi at this very moment. Yes, it is so awful hard to be brave in front of our babies, but when we're upset, they do know something is wrong.

My prayers will be with you tonight and that Kumbi has a restful night. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

Linda/Ladybug

k9diabetes
06-06-2010, 04:39 PM
I have been very very worried about Kumbi ever since the news of the x-ray.

Chris had occasional coughing that was helped, oddly, by a diuretic, furosamide (Lasix). Our vet didn't necessarily know exactly how it was helping. He didn't have obvious fluid in his lungs but a small dose was very helpful for him. Vet presumed it was drying things up just enough to make lung function better.

I understand the place you are in today and it breaks my heart for you even to have to think such thoughts. You are doing all you can, including letting Kumbi guide your decisions.

If I was religious, I'd pray for you. But instead I'm sending all of our best wishes for improvement.

Natalie

eileen
06-06-2010, 05:24 PM
Chris had occasional coughing that was helped, oddly, by a diuretic, furosamide (Lasix). Our vet didn't necessarily know exactly how it was helping. He didn't have obvious fluid in his lungs but a small dose was very helpful for him. Vet presumed it was drying things up just enough to make lung function better.


Carol,

If you'll remember our mutual long time friend, Deb and Alice, months ago Alice began having coughing spells, her vet, as in Natalie's Chris' case, put Alice on Lasix which somehow seems to be helping.
As Chris, Alice does not appear to have obvious fluid in her lungs but is somehow being helped by the Lasix.

CoolGram
06-06-2010, 05:36 PM
Carol,

I'm so sad to hear about Kumbi's struggles - and yours too, of course. These are the times we all dread with our dear pets, but they're no match for all the wonderful times we have had with them.

You've helped me so much these past few months and I wish I could do something for you. But please know that you are both in my thoughts and prayers, and give Kumbi a big hug from me and a kiss from Gretel.

Carolyn

Patty
06-06-2010, 06:00 PM
Carol,
You are such a great dog mom to Kumbi. I too am worried.
Hoping and Praying for you both!
Patty

spiritdog6
06-06-2010, 06:44 PM
Oh my Carol, I am so sorry you and Kumbi are having such a rough time of it. I surely hope tomorrow will be better for both of you. You are a great advocate for Kumbi, and so many other peoples dogs. I know you will do what is right for Kumbi and yourself. I sorely wish this is just a day of "darkest before the dawn" scenerio, and you 2 will figure this out and get past this. Big Hug to you, and Hunter and Sidekick sent positive dog energy to Kumbi.

CarolW
06-06-2010, 07:52 PM
Dear such-good-buddies All,

We have DRAMATIC improvement! Enough so I don't plan to go to the vet at all tomorrow, far less take Kumbi!

Details later, as this is Kumbi's injection-time coming up.

I'm convinced all of you marshaling the Forces of the Universe (I'm no more religious than you are Natalie) have helped Kumbi along as well as me.

I am singing, joy, joy, JOY! Back later!

Thanks SO MUCH!

Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:52:02 (PDT)

CarolW
06-06-2010, 09:11 PM
We've had harrowing times and cliff-hangers before, only once anywhere near this bad; this has been the worst ever.

I do THINK we're making progress. Kumbi is coughing again, quite miserable with it, but he's resting now, and he gets more Torbutrol at 10 pm. (it's 7:30 p.m. as I write this).

We are both tired! But I am wildly keyed-up - naturally. I must remind myself that Kumbi WILL cough some. (Reminding self.) If we really have a bad night, I WILL take him to the vet tomorrow morhing, but not with the idea of putting him down; rather, of going with Dr. Carla's suggested program, Xrays, draw blood for bloodwork and a titer (I didn't get what for, but something bacterial).

And we'll go from there. IF we go to the vet tomorrow at all. If the apparent dramatic improvement is at all sustained - that is, if Kumbi goes for some periods without coughing, and seems more comfortable, we won't go to the vet at all tomorrow.

I'm interested that we had two long, very slow, but very social, walks today. This is quite exciting for Kumb - lots of socializing with people, and he's a very sociable dog with people. Also with dogs smaller than he is, though he will try to mount females, and their owners generally see that as acting dominant (not! - it's sex-play! - and play it is, as neutered dogs CAN tie, but if I thought Kumbi was getting anywhere near tying I'd simply remove him! haha!)

But it's also social play. And with people, Kumbi just enjoys being around them, getting a few pats, or, better, strokes, and he likes to listen to the voices of people-and-me chatting. I think he finds it comforting.

A few days ago, a neighbor took a bunch of photos so I can select a few to illustrate teaching a dog to accept a lip-prick for BG-testing.

Well, I never knew this neighbor is so good with a camers - it's tough photographing animals, but she did a great job! (using my camera, and it's never easy to use somebody else's camera - maybe especially digital).

But we only got pictures from one angle, and I wanted to get them from another angle, so this morning, I phoned my neighbor, and she was more than willing to take more photos.

So, our morning walk began with a photoshoot! With my neighbor, her 7.5-year-old son (who had just won a gold medal in track Friday, and was wearing it. I got a few pictures of him with his medal! - and of him, his mother, and Kumbi, too.

Today's photos will round out the illustrations I want. Well, I was thinking if Kumbi dies tomorrow, this would be his legacy to all diabetic dogs whose Human-parents choose the lip-prick. A fitting legacy, I think.

Kumbi, though, is now saying, Mum, that's NOT a legacy! It's a current gift - that is, as soon as you get around to getting those photos up in useful places in useful ways.

Which will take me quite some time.

Now we have sleep from Kumbi, and he really needs it. When he's well, he's very playful after supper, but he is nothing like well at the moment. I'm deeply trusting we'll get him well enough really to enjoy life again.

I am profoundly tired, but also happy - I really believe we'll get through this and come out on the other side.

Thanks again for all your wonderful well-wishes. I'll probably be irregular reporting, but I'll be reading here; wouldn't miss the news from you people about your dogs, and you.

And I will keep you up-to-date on Kumbi.

With love, hugs, licks and wags,
Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:43:55 (PDT)

oops - got distracted - Kumbi coughing, me brushing him, then getting myself some supper!

So it's really
Sun, 6 Jun 2010 20:09:11 (PDT) as I send this!

Patty
06-06-2010, 09:20 PM
Glad to hear Kumbi's cough has settled down some Carol. Really hoping things continue to improve :)
Patty

Dollydog
06-06-2010, 09:38 PM
Hi Carol,
I'm glad to that things are looking up today....hope that continues and you don't have to make "that decision" any time soon!!
Will check back tomorrow,
Jo-Ann & my Dollydog angel & Victoria :)

CarolW
06-06-2010, 11:18 PM
Spoke too soon. For the last two hours, Kumbi's every breath has been a cough, so I'll be taking him to the vet in the morning. No decisions ahead; we'll see what happens, but I WILL have Kumbi put down rather than let him suffer, if there's no way to give him a LOT of relief right away.

We're going to bed; I hope more rest will help settle Kumbi; I just gave him another Torbutrol, which should last six to eight hours.

Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:17:40 (PDT)

CarolW
06-07-2010, 02:48 AM
Kumbi and I got some sleep. He's up again, coughing, but the coughing has calmed now.

Going back to bed shortly. We'll be going to the vet later this morning, and what happens will depend on the results from fresh Xrays. I might come home afterward with or without Kumbi. No way to know ahead.

So, for now, I'm not anticipating anything. Again not facing his possible death; I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. might be today; might be years down the road.

Either way, I'll post an update here as soon as I'm able.

Mon, 7 Jun 2010 01:46:53 (PDT)

ladysmom06
06-07-2010, 05:44 AM
Carol,

I'm so sorry to hear that Kumbi is still having problems. Positive thoughts and prayers being sent to the two of you. Hugs to you and Kumbi.

Dollydog
06-07-2010, 06:31 AM
Just checking in again....you have such a great attitude....hoping for good news when you come back....
(((HUGS))) for both of you.

Tikobird
06-07-2010, 07:19 AM
Carol - fingers, toes & paws all crossed here for good news today!

spiritdog6
06-07-2010, 07:19 AM
Hoping things go well for you and Kumbi today, and that it gets sorted out fast.
I take Sidekick to vet today in the late afternoon, hoping it is nothing major.

Patty
06-07-2010, 07:43 AM
Thinking of you and watching for news.
Patty

Margaret Boyle
06-07-2010, 09:11 AM
Thinking of you and watching for news.
Patty

Carol,

Just to let you know Kumbi and you are in our thoughts and prayers.

Hugs

CarolW
06-07-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm asleep on my seat at the keyboard; more later, but my vets find solutions - trust them!

Kumbi is at the vet's all day for monitoring - low dose of prednisone! Bloodwork results to follow tomorrow. No change on Xrays, but today's showed tracheal collapse - Dr. Amanda and Dr. Carla were right!

I'm to pick Kumbi up at 6 or 6:30. First time ever, he'll have his supper up to an hour late! - insulin, too. That's the limit of the no-insulin-overlap window!

Going to bed for an hour. Details later.

Mon, 7 Jun 2010 14:17:19

Ladybug
06-07-2010, 03:34 PM
Carol,

That is WONDERFUL news! Take care of yourself and Kumbi....you both must be completely worn down.

Will be watching for further updates!

Linda/Ladybug :)

eileen
06-07-2010, 05:02 PM
Kumbi is at the vet's all day for monitoring - low dose of prednisone! Bloodwork results to follow tomorrow. No change on Xrays, but today's showed tracheal collapse



I'm sorry to hear that the trachael collapse was confirmed by the second xray. My SIL had a dog with this several years ago and in a discussion with her earlier today sent this link to me so to forward it to you.


http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_tracheal_collapse.html

She aided her dog by feeding only wet food, staying away from dry kibble completely.

She also used an inhaler to deliver corticosteroids for a time.
If this becomes an option for Kumbi I know of a great link to purchase specifically made animal inhalers as I also have an asthmatic cat using inhaled meds.
Many vets use adapted baby inhalers but there are dog and cat inhalers which work much better.

Holding onto positive thoughts for you and Kumbi.

Ladybug
06-07-2010, 06:04 PM
Carol,

When I said "wonderful news", I meant because "Kumbi's NOT leaving Earth - maybe a few more years", not that he has tracheal collapse. Sorry if anyone misunderstood.

Linda/Ladybug

eileen
06-07-2010, 06:14 PM
Carol,

When I said "wonderful news", I meant because "Kumbi's NOT leaving Earth - maybe a few more years", not that he has tracheal collapse. Sorry if anyone misunderstood.

Linda/Ladybug

oh Linda, I think we can ALL agree that this IS wonderful news!

I doubt anyone will misunderstand your meaning.

Patty
06-08-2010, 02:27 PM
Going to bed for an hour. Details later.

Carol,
I do hope you got some sleep. How are things going?
Patty

CarolW
06-08-2010, 09:10 PM
Kumbi died unexpectedly at 6:30 this morning. I took him to the vet anyway, compressing his chest through the drive, KNOWING it was no good because he was dead. Waited two hours till they opened, and talked to the vet on duty today, a new vet who works there part-time, Dr. Ute Mannhardt. I'd seen her around the clinic a few times - delightful person. Dr. Amanda is away at the ACVIM conference in Anaheim, but I phoned the conference center and left a message for her. No guarantee she'll get it.

Dr. Mannhardt agreed to do a quick post-mortem today.

Dr. Carla Bell had the day off, but dropped by anyway, and worked on the post-mortem with Dr. Mannhardt.

Kumbi had a liver tumor that got into his lung as well, and there were a few other things that Dr. Carla will tell me about later.

Kumbi had spent all day yesterday hospitalized for monitoring, as they tried him on a small dose of prednisone.

All the same, he coughed most of the night, and died this morning. Not one of us could have predicted this. The vets did their best, and I did my best, but we couldn't save him. Even if I'd had money for extensive diagnostics, I doubt we could have saved him; I just would have had him put down earlier.

I WILL be planning to get another dog, not a diabetic dog if I can help it, just because it costs more than I can afford. It's SO tempting to take another diabetic dog, because I have the skills! But, no way. I'll be on a search for a small dog, probably not a puppy, and this time, I may try for a dog who is very sociable with other dogs and people.

Of course, I am stunned. I'll be very busy, though, so my tears will be moderated and come slowly, as they did when I lost Kwali last 3 November (2009).

I'll still be with you all here.

Tue, 8 Jun 2010 19:42:21

BestBuddy
06-08-2010, 09:15 PM
Oh Carol,
I am so sorry. Sometimes it doesn't matter how hard we fight it is just not enough. I feel your pain and know it will come in waves that you just have to ride out. Kumbi certainly has earned his wings and there are so many waiting to greet him.
Jenny

Joan
06-08-2010, 09:20 PM
I am sitting here in tears, just imagining how you are feeling right now. Nothing I can say will make it hurt less, I know. Just know that many prayers and hugs are going out to you.

Run free little Kumbi.

Joan

Patty
06-08-2010, 09:28 PM
Carol,

I am so very sorry to hear about Kumbi. My heart is broken for you. You devoted all of your time, energy, resources and love that you had to give. It was apparent in every one of your posts.

God Speed sweet Kumbi.

Patty

Dollydog
06-08-2010, 09:32 PM
Oh Carol, I'm so sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to you....you worked so hard to keep him and he was such a little trooper! It's been such a short time since Kwali passed away.
Rest in peace dear sweet Kumbi....you've earned it.
(((HUGS))) for you Carol,
Jo-Ann & my Dollydog angel & Victoria

k9diabetes
06-08-2010, 10:11 PM
Carol... I'm so very sorry. No one was a more dedicated diabetes parent. It is especially hard after losing Kwali not so long ago. I know that Kumbi was a wonderful blessing in your life and you in his.

Natalie

CoolGram
06-08-2010, 10:40 PM
Dear Carol,

I am so so sorry to hear this news of Kumbi's passing. I've been checking back to this site all day, waiting for news, but fearful of what I might read.

I wish with all my heart that I could find some words that would give you comfort. I do want to say though, that even though I haven't known you for a very long time, I knew you well enough to know that you were absolutely the best and most devoted mom to Kumbi that you could possibly have been.

I'm sending you a warm hug, and will keep you in my prayers.

Carolyn

CarolW
06-08-2010, 11:26 PM
Dear forum buddies all,

Thanks for all your good thoughts and your good wishes. It's going to be hard. I've been through this numbers of times before. Doesn't make it any easier! I know many of you have lost dogs as well, and those of you who haven't may feel even worse pain for others than those of us who HAVE!

Let your imaginations not run wild! Kumbi, of course, will live in my heart as long as I live.

I'm going through that first stage - expecting to see him on his bed, checking to find out where he is, listening for him, and so forth.

It's lucky I have large tasks ahead of me, as those will help assuage the pain some. In the end, though, we just have to travel the road.

I'll be reading here every day, I hope! doG willing and the creek don't rise! Do keep up all your good work with your diabetic dogs!

With lots of love, hugs, and thanks!

Tue, 8 Jun 2010 22:24:45

Noodle
06-09-2010, 12:14 AM
Carol, it's just heartbreaking to find your post about Kumbi. He could not have been more loved and cared for and was fortunate to have you in his life...and he in yours I'm sure. You gave Kumbi & Kwali a wonderful home. The next dog to enter your life will be one fortunate pup.

Love, hugs, and a huge smooch from Noodle.

diggydog
06-09-2010, 02:20 AM
Carol,

I am so very sorry to hear your news. What a brave little dog kumbi was.
Take care of you.

Hugs xx

Ladybug
06-09-2010, 05:02 AM
Dear Carol,

I'm so sorry...words escape me at the moment. Take care of yourself.

Linda/Ladybug

eileen
06-09-2010, 05:17 AM
Carol,

I'm so sorry to read this news....my heart goes out to you.

hugs

bgdavis
06-09-2010, 06:26 AM
Carol,

I'm stunned to read of Kumbi sudden death. I'm so very sorry, knowing how painful the loss is to you. I'm sure Kwali and Kumbi are rejoying in being together again.

Bonnie and Angel Criss

spiritdog6
06-09-2010, 06:53 AM
Oh my dear Carol, I am stunned and saddened by this news. I haven't known you long but your dedication and love for your Kumbi, is giant in size. Please know we all share in your grief, and know the hole in your heart is huge and raw. Hugs, Jean, Sidekick, and Hunter

Harry
06-09-2010, 06:57 AM
Words fail me at this moment Carol. God bless you and of course, Kumbi.


Harry.

Tikobird
06-09-2010, 07:15 AM
Carol - I'm sorry just doesn't seem enough. I am so saddened by your loss.

Lori

Chloe's Mom
06-09-2010, 08:37 AM
Dear Carol,

I cannot tell you how very sorry I am to read this. I know the pain you are suffering and I surely wish there was a way to take it away with words, but there are none. Please know that my thoughts are prayers are with you.

Godspeed sweet Kumbi.....

Heidi and Chloe

bizco17
06-09-2010, 08:46 AM
I am so sorry for your loss. Please take care.

Margaret Boyle
06-09-2010, 11:59 AM
Carol,

I am so sorry for your loss, Kumbi was such a great wee dog, my thoughts are with you Carol I feel your pain.

You were an excellent dog Mum and your dogs loved you very much.

R.I.P. sweet Kumbi

Hugs for you Carol

Margaret

CarolW
06-09-2010, 12:47 PM
Dear buddies all,

I got some sleep last night, sorely missing Kumbi at my shoulder. But I DID sleep. Got up at the usual time, which is a good thing; I'll stick pretty closely to a dog-compatible schedule, so my BodyBrain stays tuned for it.

This morning I took a long walk, made a circuit of the paths Kwali and Kumbi and I used to travel, through the park. We haven't been there for six years, since first, Kumbi's knee surgery (2004), next, Kwali's knee surgery (2005), and JUST when we were starting back on walks, Kumbi's diagnosis of diabetes, and subsequent blindness - couldn't negotiate the terrain.

Since neither dog could be left home alone, if one couldn't walk then I'd find ways to enteratin the other - or, rather, both.

That long walk was good for me, refreshing old memories, and though Kwali and Kumbi weren't corporeally by my side, they were absolutely with me in all kinds of refreshed memories!

I'll also be catching up on sleep, so I'm going to go take a long nap.

With my CalendarScope to awaken me, to help keep me on a dog-oriented schedule. After all, I may need that rather soon, though not likely with a diabetic dog.

One of my buddies told me she was sure Kwali and Kumbi are interviewing to discern which dog to send me next. Oh, I LOVE it!

I'm getting a huge kick out of expecting to see Kumbi. Got one when I discovered this morning I had no dog-dishes to wash - well, that COULD have been bad, but Kumbi is so clever he laughed with me.

Also, I want to let you know how deeply I appreciate EVERY comment, whether in words, or in feelings sent through the ether.

Going for that nap!

Wed, 9 Jun 2010 11:43:52

ladysmom06
06-09-2010, 05:10 PM
Dear Carol,

I am so very sorry to hear about your precious Kumbi. Wish there was something I could say to ease your pain and the deep sense of loss you are feeling but know there isn't. You were an awesome mom to Kumbi and did everything you could for him. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. My deepest sympathy. Hugs being sent to you.

roserein
06-09-2010, 07:39 PM
Carol-

Jake and I send thoughts, hugs, and wags to you. Keep the memories of the dear one safe in your heart and know that some time in the future you will be together.......all dogs go to heaven, you know :-).

Rose and Jake
Boone, NC