Harley's journey...

[Jenkinsx5]

Hi! I'm new here. My 11 year old Lab, Harley has just been diagnosed with diabetes. He was just started on insulin yesterday and will go in next week for an all day stay at the vet for further testing for regulation, etc.

We should have known when all the drinking and urinating started (last week) that diabetes was a definite possibility (my husband is diabetic) but we just thought Harley was getting older, etc.

What really caused us to go to the vet was the weakness in his back legs. THe vet attributed it to the blood sugar issue and him just feeling so bad. Have any of you seen this in your dogs when their blood sugar wasn't regulated? I know the vet has Harley on a relatively low dose of insulin - and his sugar was very high - so I wonder if it will just take a while, etc. But when I see his legs just go out from under him, it just kills me.

Just curious, I guess.

[MaryLea]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Hello to you and Harley, and welcome to the forum.

It is quite common for dogs to have trouble with especially their hind legs when they are diabetic and not regulated. The road to regulation may be a slow walk, but you will get there! I'm glad to hear that your vet started Harley on a low dose. Mind telling us what that is?

In fact, please give us all the information you are willing to share: Harley's weight, food and schedule (of feeding/insulin). The more you tell us, the better everyone can help you.

Glad you are here and looking forward to hearing about your furry friend.

Mary

[Jenkinsx5]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Mary, Thanks for your quick reply. Here is the information I can give you on Harley thus far....

He weighs 102 and Prior to this was fed a mixture of wet and dry food twice per day.

I have been feeding him more protein (chicken, etc.) and less dry food (was afraid of the possible carb count) in the past couple of days since he was diagnosed.

Our vet started him on 11 units of Humulin N every 12 hours. According to her, this is a rather low dose to start (although she did tell me what to be watching for in case of a low).

His sugar was 577 when his blood work was done.

He was having a terrible time maneuvering the steps to get outside (5 steps) and my husband built him a ramp which seems to help - but I the weakness in his back legs is evident - especially after urinating.

I appreciate any info.

Thanks
Susan

[JayneN]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Welcome Susan and Harley

You will receive lots of support and excellent information here!

[Judi]

Re: Weakness in Legs

on the main page here there is a link to a video about canine diabetic neuropathy but I couldn't get it to play.

Here is the wikipedia link: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Neuropathy

with Jenny, her back legs tremble when her blood sugar is too low and too high. So I've definitely seen it. When her blood sugar is on an even keel, no trembling or weakness. The wiki article talks about B12 and I can't remember if it was someone here or on the cushings forum who is giving their dog B12.

Welcome to the forum. It sounds like it is reversible if caught early and you definitely caught it early. Judi

[MaryLea]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Susan,

You're welcome! I just happened to be sitting at my computer and saw your post. I remember how lost we felt after Ruffles' dx, so I try to respond when someone signs on, especially for the first time. It helps to know there are others out there who have been through similar events with their fur babies.

The dose is conservative for his weight and his BG (at 577) is not "off the chart." I hope you will see some improvement in his behavior, but maybe not at this low dose. It always takes more time than we would like to get them to feeling better.

Would you consider home testing his blood sugar (Blood Glucose, BG for short)? We started with Ruffles within the first few days, and I'm so-o-o glad we did. You will have much more information about him if you learn to test at home, plus have the advantage of not stressing him out at the vet office, not to mention the cost factor. You will find much help on this site and the internet to help you learn how to do this.

I'm not an expert on the weakness situation, so let's wait for others to chime in with comments. I know it's hard to see him having difficulty. We suffer right along with them--even more than they do, at times, I think!

If you happen to have any pics on your computer which you could upload, we'd love to see what Harley looks like!

Mary

[k9diabetes]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Has the hind end weakness been only since the drinking and urinating started?

Usually if a dog doesn't have any other problems with communication over the spinal cord, diabetic neuropathy only occurs when the blood sugar has been extremely high - 600s, 700s - for an extended period of time and it sounds like Harley's blood sugar hasn't been that high for all that long.

What can happen is there may already be some kind of problem with communication over the spinal cord and then when you layer the high blood sugar over the top of that, it proceeds to full blown neuropathy sooner and at lower levels of blood sugar than it would otherwise.

It certainly wouldn't be unusual for an 11-year-old lab to have some inflammation and arthritis in the spine, so maybe it's a combination. But if there were any signs prior to the onset of diabetes, like dragging the tops of the back paws for example, then there could be some neuropathy separately also.

Natalie

[Shellie]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Welcome to you and Harley! You'll get a lot of good information here to help you with Harley!

Don't feel bad about not knowing it was diabetes. People diabetes can be very different than pups so it's easy to not 'get' it.

I think it was one of our new pups that has EPI that is using the B12. But not for back end problems...to help with the EPI.

Hank will occaissionally be weaker in the hind end but it's not noticeable to a great extent so I'm afraid I can't help much with that.

Again...welcome to the forum! Glad to have you along! Feel free to ask any question...we love those and we love lots of info! Hugs!

[CarolW]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Just adding my warmest welcome to you, Susan and Harley. It does sound as though you caught this early, and maybe the hind leg weakness is partly from something else besides the diabetes, as Natalie suggested.

I like how your vet is starting Harley out on a low dose of insulin; the principle is known as, Start Low, Go Slow. This way, you're not likely to overshoot the correct dose and cause problems such as hypoglycemia, which you do NOT want!

I'll be here watching and cheering you on!

Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:53:17 (PDT)

[Judi]

Re: Weakness in Legs

I thought after I posted the wiki link that I shouldn't have since everyone says you can't always trust it. But it seemed to fit. Sorry for any misunderstandings. Judi

[Jenkinsx5]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Yes - the hind end weakness has only been since the urinating and drinking started. He had had no previous problems of that sort - at least that we saw. Not to be crude - but it was like he was standing there urinating for SO LONG that his back legs just kept sinking down until he finally just kinda sat/flopped down.

He is still behaving much that way - sometimes a little better - sometimes not. I guess it will take a while to get regulated.

Susan

[Jenkinsx5]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Mary - yes - I would be glad to test his sugar. In fact, my husband tried last night to test it from his lip ( he didn't act like it hurt - but we didn't really succeed in getting any blood) after a couple of tries both my husband and Harley were "over it". We will try again today.

I am concerned about what I am feeding him. Normally he has a pretty good sized bowl of mostly dry food but I am now afraid that is too high in carbs. This morning, I fed him a small can of canned chicken, over a small package of semi moist food with a little dry food on the bottom. It was about the same quantity (bowl wise) as usual - but I'm so confused! He ate it all no problem.

I am at work now and will leave in a little to run home (10 mins) and check on him - let him out/in and then return to work. I'm never sure what I'm going to find when I get there. (I am thankful for an employer who will let me do this without docking my pay! ) Then my son will be home a couple hours after that and check on him again. I hate leaving him!

Thanks for all the help! I will upload a photo of Harley soon.

Susan

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Hi Susan,

Just wanted to pop in a share a welcome as well.

Food, one thing about food is to find a food, and then stay consistent. If that can not be done, for example some dogs are very finicky in what they like, then it is suggested to keep the calories the same. I believe Sandy, with Tiggy, rotates some foods, but she keeps the calories the same.

There is a very good site, on how to determine calories, based upon weight and activity level, that you may want to use as a guideline. Below is the link;

http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.htm

Again, welcome... you found a wonderful group of people.

[Patty]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Hi and welcome to you!
I wanted to comment about the food. What is the dry food you've been feeding Harley?

Something to remember in trying to compare human diabetes with canine diabetes, you are using NPH to cover both the body's basal needs and the food. So you need some fiber and carb to keep the blood sugar level.

I would keep his food consistent until you know how his food and insulin are working together. A full curve (where blood sugar is testing starting with fasting then every 2 hours after until next meal) will give you that information.

I also wouldn't feed canned chicken. It's very high in sodium.

Consistency with regard to food/exercise/etc is really key to regulation. I look forward to hearing more about Harley!
Patty

[Jenkinsx5]

Re: Weakness in Legs

Thanks Patty - his dry food is just Dog chow. I will take your advice on the canned meat also. He is supposed to go in for his "curve" next week. I'll try to just feed him consistently until then.