Jazzy Girl

[JazzyGirlsMom]

Name: Jazzy
Breed: Lab/Chow/Maltese/Shihtzu
Birth date or age: She will be 10 on April 1, 2009
Weight: 40 lbs
Date diagnosed with diabetes: 2/24/09
Type of insulin and how often given: Vetsulin 5u 2x day
Diet: commercial (vet may be recommending special diet...grrr)
Method of monitoring: (at this point just urine testing
Other medical issues: none

We're still new to the whole process and will have lots of questions as we go along. She's still not regulated and the vet is getting rich! <grin>. Jazzy at some times could be a little spiteful dog so when she started peeing on the floor in the house that's what I thought it was. Then I thought MAYBE it could be a urinary tract infection. Tried meds for that, no improvement. Next thing was maybe she's just becoming an old lady and couldn't hold it anymore. It was when I realized she was eating like a hog and looked to be losing weight I had an inkling it was diabetes. I thought it might be cancer, but possibly diabetes so I took her to the vet and got diagnosed w diabetes. I never knew dogs could be diabetic. I wasn't sure I was up to the challenge but would give it a fair shot (no pun intended). For me giving the shots is the easy part. It's the glucose testing of her urine that has me the most frustrated. I get nervous when her level is 2000...I never thought it could go that high! I work with a great bunch of nurses who can answer SOME of my questions relating to diabetes in humans so they are an invaluable resource for me.

[peggy0]

Re: How to Use This Forum

Welcome to the board! You'll find this community to be a huge help to you. Jazzy is adorable. by the way, I do not have my dog on a special diet. I regulated him around it.

[Fishslayer]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Welcome!

You can do this. I was a total n00b 2 months ago when I agreed to foster Lucy. Now I'm home testing & injecting with no problem.

I have to confess that Lucy has made things very easy for me.

Rick

[eyelostit]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Hey Jazzy Welcome !

It will take time for the urine strip reading to come down, try and catch the 2nd pee of the am if possible before food, tho that can be hard with a crazy morning, or try it pre meal at night, if Jaz is not leaking urine or panting hard the insulin is working, it will take 5-7 days for that inital dose to start working and the vet will let you know about increasing the insulin if needed.

Like Peggy mentioned some of us do not use the vets rx foods, its just too expensive.

Once you start home testing the bg you will get a better picture of how Jaz is using her insulin, you will be able to tell her lowest point of the day, that can be anywhere from 2-5 hrs after injection, once you get comfortable with doing this when you have some time you can do a curve at home, this will help eliminate trips to the vet.

I think you will get the hang of this pretty quick plus you have some help at work.

Hang in there.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Jazzy's on a really small dose of insulin so far - does she sometimes come up with negative urine tests?

Has she had a curve at the vet?

What does her regulation look like so far?

(I always have questions!)

You could get a lot more information and save some money by learning to home test blood glucose - there are video and picture demos at www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html.

Natalie

[JazzyGirlsMom]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Thanks for all the encouragement and welcomes. After testing her urine last night I fed her and took her to the vet for her curve (2nd one) today. Her urine tested at 2000 again and I asked the vet to check her blood. They said it was 236 or 256 so that made me feel better, but confused. Wondering why check her urine if it's SO high and her blood was ok. Putting that on my list of questions to ask the vet. Will post the results when I get them today.

[JazzyGirlsMom]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Forgot a question for you guys/gals....Jazzy didn't want to eat last night until later. After she finally ate and in my rush to get her to the vet before they closed I forgot to put her vetsulin in the fridge. I found it this morning. Is it useless now? I need to purchase more? I'm thinking "yes", Thanks

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jazzy Girl

The human insulins can be kept unrefrigerated although it reduces the shelf life, usually to about a month at a reasonable room temperature whereas it will last much much longer when refrigerated.

I suspect the same is true of Vetsulin but I just looked at their website for owners and this is what is said on the FAQ:

Can I still use a vial of Vetsulin if it was forgotten outside the refrigerator between doses?
Vetsulin should be stored upright, protected from light, between 2 and 8°C. If the Vetsulin vial has been accidentally stored outside the refrigerator consult your veterinarian for advice on whether the Vetsulin can still be used or not. http://www.vetsulin.com/dog-owner/faq.aspx#v2

Seems silly for the manufacturer to defer to the vet.

Their website for vets says:

Storage
Store refrigerated at 36°F to 46°F. Protect from light. Store Vetsulin vials upright in the refrigerator to avoid crystallization around the stopper. Do not freeze insulin because this will denature the fragile insulin chains. Avoid high temperatures. http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/AboutVet...rHandling.aspx

You could get a backup bottle in case the next injection doesn't work well but I think a few hours at room temperature would not be a problem. As long as it's not exposed to very low or very high temps.

[eyelostit]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Hi, anxious to hear the curve results.

[BaileyBear]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Welcome to you & Jazzy!

You'll learn things so quickly here...and when you forget or get confused, they will patiently explain it all to you again, lol. My dog, Bailey, was just diagnosed in January and I credit my understanding of this disease and his improvement to the members here. They walked me through the things I needed to know, which empowered me to ask the right questions and make sound decisions. You have definitely come to the right place.

You'll be surprised how fast this will become pretty routine for you & Jazzy. I thing the human part of the family has a tougher time with it then the furbabies. They catch on very fast that testing & injections ultimately lead to them feeling better. As far as my dog is concerned, tests & injections are just the precursor to a treat and/or a big snuggle.

[JazzyGirlsMom]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Home from the vet. She did fine with the testing altho the curve isn't where she'd like to see it.
7 am 397
11am 323
2pm 300
5pm 392

She said between 11 and 2 she'd like to see her glucose at 150 so she upped the insulin to 6 units 2x day now instead of 5. And back again next week for another curve. CHA-CHING lol..SHe did tell me this will probably be the last curve for about a month, then 3 months, 6 months then 1 year then yearly after that unless there is a problem. I asked her about buying a meter, she said she wouldn't recommend it at this point and might never recommend it if her urine glucose stays consistant. She told me not to worry about the urine going up to 2000, it was an indicator that she will need to be re-tested that maybe she's not regulated but not to worry if it spikes like that in her urine. She said the urine will show elevated levels but it doesn't mean the blood glucose is that high. I need to be more concerned w her ketones at this point. I asked about treats, she told me baby carrots are ok in moderation like maybe 1 or 2 a day, green beens are ok as long as they are unsalted. She stressed unsalted. For commercial treats, she recommended Science Diet Lite Biscuits. And no changes to her diet at this point. Once she is regulated we can work on the diet. I asked about switching from vetsulin to humalin or novolin. She said it really isn't much of a savings and that once she's regulated, we'd have to run the curves again if we switched it. They are not opposed to giving a script to purchase thru the mail as long as the company is reputable because of shipping the vetsulin. I feel better..at least until the numbers go up again like they did in the middle of the week last week. Then I'll become concerned again lol.

[JazzyGirlsMom]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Oh! and she told me not to use the vetsulin. An hour or two might be ok, but 12 hrs was a definate no.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Does Jazzy have ketones?

I asked her about buying a meter; she said she wouldn't recommend it at this point and might never recommend it if her urine glucose stays consistent.

While no one MUST home test blood glucose, 98% of the people I know who have tried it would never go back to relying on urine tests when they can test blood glucose instead. The 2% are people who obsess about numbers and basically just couldn't control themselves!

If nothing else, the fact that it can tell you the blood sugar is low makes it worthwhile. Once the blood sugar drops below about 180, you get negative urine test results. So whether the blood sugar is 35 or 173, you get the same urine result.

And you could do Jazzy's curves at home for a lot less money and with a lot less stress. More important, the curve you do at home reflects Jazzy's real day / real environment / real activity levels instead of being shut up in a kennel in a strange smelly place all day.

Okay, I'm stepping off the soapbox... just know that you don't need anyone's permission to home test!

Natalie

[Fishslayer]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Relion N (Wal Mart's NPH) is significantly less $$ than Vetsulin. It is much more potent, tho, so you have to be very careful with dosing. My dog is on 8 IU x twice daily & I have to use my magnifying reading glasses when loading the syringe.

Ditto Natalie re home testing. You don't need permission. I don't know what I'd do without it. I certainly can't afford a vet visit every time I want to know what Lucy's BG is at the moment. If your vet is super adamant about you not home testing I would ask why.

Ketodiastix tell you what the BG was and an idea of how long it was elevated. I urine test for peace of mind. If Lucy's morning BG test is high but the pee is around 100-500 or so I know her insulin just petered out a bit early. We're still in early regulating stage after switching insulin.
I also check for Ketones. Those are serious business and can kill.

Rick

[BaileyBear]

Re: Jazzy Girl

Bailey is currently on 26 units of Humulin, twice a day. At that rate a vial (1000 units) should last us about 19 days. In my area the Walmart Relion N version is about $23 and the Humulin N is about twice that. I'm sure there are several members here who could tell you the approximate equivalent dose of Vetsulin and the comparable cost. It's my understanding it's significant, so it makes me nervous when a vet doesn't know that and blows off the expense. Unless they are going to hand it out for free, then cost is a reasonable consideration. This is a disease that requires life long care and a higher than average rate of vet visits. Anywhere you can limit costs will help make up for the surprise visits for treatment and tests of an infection (higher rate of infection in diabetic pets) or other potential complications.

I SO strongly believe what others have posted about how beneficial home BG testing is in caring for our pets, getting more accurate "real life" readings, and helping keep costs down. Every time you need to take you dog in for a curve, you are paying for each blood test and a full day of vet care at the clinic. Bailey LOVES going to the vet, so he is not anxious at all. But he is so excited to be around new people and animals that his excitement can drop his numbers significantly, making a vet curve pretty useless for us. For less than $5 worth of strips (a box of 100 of the test strips I use cost just under $50 and there has always been a $5 coupon in the box) I can test Bailey at home, get accurate readings in his home environment, fax them to the vet or drop them by the office, and provide them with all the info they need to evaluate the current dose...all that and I save myself over $100 each time.

Ketodiastix aren't that cheap either and they are only giving you a reading of accumulated glucose over time. Blood testing at home with a meter will let you know if and when she is heading into sky high numbers so that you know when it may be best to bump up the ketone testing and when it might be just a waste of strips. Better yet, consistently high blood glucose numbers can alert you that it's time for an increase or some other adjustment before you ever reach the potential ketone stage. Once Jazzy gets closer to regulation, a urine strip won't tell you if she is nearing a dangerous low when her insulin peaks. While high numbers over time can have terrible consequences, a sudden and severe hypoglycemic event can lead to death.

You'd be surprised how fast they can drop. Bailey was having such a good day today that I took him with us when I had to drive my daughter somewhere. He hasn't been on a ride any longer than the few minutes to school or the vet since he was diagnosed. This one was about 30 minutes there and back and he was deliriously happy and excited...enough to drop his blood glucose over 100 points. Thankfully, for him that meant 97 - but for a dog already potentially at a healthy low level of 97, a drop lower than that could have led to a hypo incident.

A doctor treating humans would never tell a patient not to test themselves at home. A parent of a diabetic child would never be told not to test their child at home. It's considered the standard of care and absolutely necessary to manage diabetes. If a vet discouraged me from testing at home and would not take things like accuracy and cost into consideration...I'd be looking for another vet.

I know BG testing isn't for everyone, but don't let that vet discourage you if you're interested. It is incredibly worthwhile to try and many dogs make it super easy.

Sorry - it's super late and I'm very wordy tonight.