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Wylie's Mom
04-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Kathy - I have used Google Books to see snippets of books, but I haven't used it in several days. I just checked again, I'm still getting the error.

Scott - I don't know if there's something in my system. I don't need any information right now - I was just concerned if new people had the same problem. RE: photo - 'bliss personified' sure does fit.

Leslie - I never used the internet for chatting until "Chunky Boy" was diagnosed with Cushings. Thanks for spelling this out for me: ROFL (rolling on floor laughing) - didn't know that one:D;)!

GOOD NEWS! Just got Wylie's Stim results from Saturday - pre- 2.4, post 3.6. Confused, but happy:confused::D. Will post further details some other time - I want our site back:mad:!

-Susy

Squirt's Mom
04-13-2009, 12:30 PM
Those are good numbers, Susy! Remind me, is Wylie on Trilo or Lyso?

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Wylie's Mom
04-13-2009, 01:10 PM
Leslie,

He's on Lyso. Ended up doing a weird mini-load, that seems to have worked. But still questioning whether previous high results may have been from topical steroids used for his zinc-deficiency scabs. I think I used a very small amount of the topical steroids since the high stim, but I got another tube of it and applied some after his stim on Saturday for the latest scabs. I just don't know what else I can use that works:(!

-Susy

Squirt's Mom
04-13-2009, 02:39 PM
Thanks, Susy,

I'm sure you and your vet have discussed a non-steroidal topical med for him so I won't even suggest that. :p Is he able to absorb zinc through the digestive process? If so, you might try adding some zinc to his diet.

Squirt is not zinc deficient but I do add it to some of her menus, as they are a bit short. I use Natural Factors brand, 50mg, for a weeks worth of food. (She weighs right at 14lbs.) I just crush it up with my mortar and pestle and stir into the cooled food. This brand came from iHerb, I believe. (This weekend I did a complete system recovery and for some reason never thought about my list of bookmarks! :rolleyes: )

Of course, talk with your vet before trying this but it is a thought I had.

You have done such a great job with your boy! :D And you have learned so much since joining us. :cool:

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

gpgscott
04-13-2009, 02:45 PM
Hey, you two moved from a discussion about accessing files to Wylie's treatment so I started a thread.

Ya'all know the drill.

Scott

ventilate
04-13-2009, 02:50 PM
Hey Susy;
glad to hear the miniload went well, how did you do it? how long did it take? Those numbers are excellent, at least now you know you are there and can get on with the maint instead of waiting another month. I am not really sure how much of the topical steroid is absorbed into the system. I would think that if you bathed your dog in it, it may effect it but I would wonder just how much it would really increase the systemic cortisol.
Very glad to hear it went well, I hope it went well:rolleyes:
Hugs from me and mine
Sharon

Squirt's Mom
04-13-2009, 03:07 PM
:o:o:o:o yes, sir :o:o:o:o

You didn't bring that hammer over her did you?!?! :eek: :D

gpgscott
04-13-2009, 03:25 PM
:o:o:o:o yes, sir :o:o:o:o

You didn't bring that hammer over her did you?!?! :eek: :D

Depends on Louise and her blender:cool:

Wylie's Mom
04-13-2009, 03:55 PM
Leslie,

I like my current vets, but I don’t think they are that familiar with the zinc deficiency thing. I’ve tried other things for the scabs that show up, but nothing seems to work like the Animax. I started using Animax from the suggestion of the former vet (pre-cushing’s dx) and have been supplementing with Zinc gluconate ever since. I think the recent bad flare-up happened because I had started to give him yogurt, as suggested by his IMS because of the gall bladder attack. Yogurt has a lot of calcium & calcium competes with zinc. I stopped the yogurt and am now giving him a probiotic instead. I wanted to avoid giving him the Animax, but the scabs got so bad, I felt I have to do it for a more immediate relief. During that time, I had researched different zincs. It seemed that Zinc Methionine was more absorbable than Zn Gluconate, so I am trying that, but any Zinc will take a while to have an affect on these scabs. Because the Zn Methionine is more absorbable, I am giving him less (60 to 90mg/day) than I did for the Zn gluconate (200mg/day). I don’t want to give him too much, because it can be toxic – I feel like its similar to figuring out the right Lyso maintenance dose - :confused:!

What type of zinc are you using?

Scott – Leslie & I are just keeping you on your toes:D:D.

-Susy

Wylie's Mom
04-13-2009, 04:04 PM
Hi Sharon,

Again, thank you so much for the information you shared before Wylie’s mini-load. I started him off doing the 500mg BID. About 3-4 hours after his first dose (am Sun), he nibbled on a little grass and that usually means an upset tummy. I knew he couldn’t be loaded on this first dose, so I just watched him carefully, examining his poops, looking for signs of discomfort – none. I gave him the second dose (pm Sun) and he seemed fine. The next day, after the third dose (am Mon), again he nibbled on grass around lunchtime. Skipped the pm Mon dose. Then thought maybe there wasn’t enough of a food buffer in the mornings (he gets lots of snacks in the evening after dinner). Next day, gave him 250 mg (am Tues), no grass nibbling, and gave 500mg (pm Tues). Wed, gave 250mg in the am, he took one nibble on grass around luchtime, then figured maybe because he his now on 3-4 small meals a day (instead of the 2 meals per day during the initial loading), maybe he just can’t tolerate 500mg for any of these small meals. So I gave him 250mg pm Wed and 250mg am Thurs and then just stopped. That totaled 3000mg over 5 days (initial load was 4250 over 3 days). Other than the grass nibbling, there were no signs of overload. I didn’t take him in for a stim after the loading – he had one 3 weeks previous & I wanted him to have a little more time. I gave him 250mg BID on Sun, Tues & Thurs, before the Saturday Stim.

I have to look back at my notes to see how much Animax I used – I definitely used a lot less before this last stim. The steroid in Animax is supposedly very powerful. I used quite a bit of it for the big flare-up, but hopefully now I can catch the scabs earlier and can zap them with a little bit of Animax before they get worse.

-Susy

Squirt's Mom
04-13-2009, 05:27 PM
Hi Susy,

This is zinc citrate I am using. I know so little about the differences between citrate, gluconate and so on. Her nutritionist recommended this so that is what I use. :D I trust her to know as she is the one with the degrees and initials after her name...tho we all know how little that can really mean sometimes. So far, she has done wonders for Squirt, tho.

It may be that you will just have to walk a very fine line between the Cushing's and using the Animax, if that is what helps him most. Kinda like a high-wire artist in a circus! :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

LuvMyMunchie
04-13-2009, 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt's Mom View Post
You didn't bring that hammer over her did you?!?!

Depends on Louise and her blender:cool:



Ohhhhhhh, those are fightin' words, Mr. Hammer!!!!

Sorry for the hijack, Susy! Glad to see you over here and congratulations on Wylie's great numbers.

Louise

Wylie's Mom
04-14-2009, 11:58 AM
You can hijack my thread...just tell everyone that this thread is where all the action is:D!
-Susy

Squirt's Mom
04-14-2009, 12:56 PM
And fire that blender up, my dear friend!!! :D We'll just hide that dang hammer!! :p

barney's mom
04-18-2009, 01:41 PM
:o:o:o:o yes, sir :o:o:o:o

You didn't bring that hammer over her did you?!?! :eek: :D

:eek: Don't speak too loudly!

Wylie's Mom
04-21-2009, 03:28 PM
Sorry this is long, but I don’t feel like editing it:p.

Here’s an update: last Wednesday evening (Tax day), I was trying get my taxes done, when Wylie hacked up a little liquid. While cleaning it up, I heard a little whimper/whine. I took him outside(in the rain) and he started munching on some grass. He went back inside and wanted to eat. I know I shouldn’t have, but he wanted to eat – I offered him a piece of banana, he refused, I offered a Lamb nugget, he ate it, but not as greedily as he usually does. His stim on Saturday was post-3.6 and I then thought maybe he should have had a little Lyso break after the mini-load. I gave him 10mg of Prednisone just in case. He settled down, but about 1-1/2 hours later, he wanted to go outside (still raining). He thought of munching on grass, but he just peed instead. Back in the house, then 10 minutes later, he vomited (the vomitfest started). Half hour later…outside in the rain again, vomit, eat grass, vomit, eat grass. He went back inside and demanded more food – this time I refused. I was worried that he might be having another gall bladder attack. 20 minutes later…back outside for vomit, eat grass, vomit, eat grass. Scr*w the taxes, I took him to emergency.

He seemed to be feeling better while we were at emergency.

Heart rate: 140
Weight: 79 lbs (he’s gained about 3)
No signs of abdominal pain.

I told the vet of his meds, supplements, raw diet, cushing’s, previous gallbladder attack…

They did bloodwork, out of range items that were tested:
Albumin – 4.0, RR 2.20 - 3.90 (he’s usually within range)
Alk Phos – 1428, RR 23 – 212 (has been trending upward, was 1231 a month ago)
ALT – 407, RR 10 – 100 (he’s usually within range)
Cholesterol – 395, RR 110 – 320 (he’s been trending downward, was 428 a month ago)
Amylase – 379, RR 500 – 1500 (he’s usually within range, has been low before on another in-house screen)
Electrolytes – within range

I’m not sure why his Alk Phos was still high (with the good stim he had a couple days ago) and why his ALT was so high. I did stop his Milk Thistle on Sunday, just for a one week break. I have never done this before (the break) and I have been giving him Milk Thistle for 2 or 3 years now.

He did not have diarrhea previous to vomiting. Vet checked to see if diarrhea was to come, but she said there were no signs of it.

She suggested an ultrasound, but he would have to be fasted and wait till tomorrow. I would rather his regular IMS do this because they know his history and have records to compare to. Again, he seemed to be feeling better. I decided against having them keep him overnite with IV fluids and opted for the SubQ fluids & Anzemet & taking him home instead. I notified the IMS office.

The IMS’s office called me Thursday around noon and said Dr. C could not see him soon, but Dr. B, could see him Friday around noon. (Dr. B did one of the ultrasounds when Wylie was being monitored after the October GB attack.) Friday, he had the ultrasound done and she said things look the same compared to his January ultrasound (check-up) that Dr. C did. She said it didn’t look like a GB issue or Pancreatitis, he wouldn’t have recovered so quickly & kept his appetite. Since the stim the Saturday before, he had 250mgBID of Lyso on Sunday & Tuesday & got sick Wed, so no Lyso on Thurs. She recommended I revise his maintenance dose from 250mgBID 3x/week, to 250mgBID on Sun & Thurs, and 250mgSID on Tues.

The next day, Saturday, after the IMS visit, he did have some softer stool, pumpkin colored, with a splash of French’s yellow mustard looking stuff:confused:. He also had a little nibble of grass.

He has been improving since and I did start the new maintenance dose on Sunday.

-Susy

ventilate
04-21-2009, 04:16 PM
Susy;
With a stim of 3.6 post, after the miniload and a week of maintenance it does not sound to me like it was overload. Did Wylie show any other signs? weakness in the hind end? Could he have gotten into something he shouldnot have? at 3.6 stimed on Sat and you gave the last lyso thurs its possible that level dropped a bit more but at 3.6 that is giving you a nice cushion. As well you didnt see much improvement post pred, that should have helped some. I am thinking it was something else. With the small meals are your giving the pepcid? maybe ask your vet about trying that? You are not giving any NSAID or anyother med that could cause the upset?
Nikes ALK Phos didnt drop down for a year and half once treatment started. on one stim it was high then on the next it was normal. My vet told me her labs were normal, I said what about her ALkPhos and he said that it was normal, then said that is strange.. and she has been normal ever since it was when I did her miniload a year and half ago and she dropped to 0.3, it normalized her labs, go figure.
Sorry Wylie hit a speed bump, I am sure with a mom like you watching over him it will be short lived and he will be back on the road full throttle again soon.
Sorry about the taxes, I am sure if you explain to uncle Sam what happend he will give you an extension:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Yup I am sure of it
Hugs from me and mine
S,N and K

frijole
04-21-2009, 05:18 PM
Another question. Is the raw diet a new thing? I only ask because I tried that with my 2 dogs and boy did I have a mess. Vomit and diarrhea everywhere - one ended up with pancreatitus. I learned later that adding probiotics is supposed to help with the switch.... just sharing in case.... Kim

LuvMyMunchie
04-21-2009, 07:23 PM
Susy,

Just catching up on Wylie's thread. Hope he continues to improve on his revised Lysodren maintenance schedule.

Hmmmmm, pumpkin colored with a splash of French’s yellow mustard and a grass snack on the side. :eek: :eek: Sounds all too familiar!

Louise

Wylie's Mom
04-22-2009, 02:43 PM
Sharon,
Other than refusing the piece of banana, eating the Lamb nugget less viciously & the vomiting (all within the same time frame); Wylie didn’t show any other signs of possible overload. He also did not show the inability to get comfortable and the back arching that he did with the GB attack in October. Wylie’s hind legs have been shaking for quite a while – getting slowly/progressively worse over the last approx. 1-1/2 years. I have a note for the Friday before the stim that they seemed to be more shaky than recent times (last couple months). The shakes are not constant – I don’t know what to make of it. I don’t think he ate anything out of the norm or found stuff while on walks (I watch him, and if he gets something & I can’t stop him from gobbling it up, I usually jot the incident down in his log).

The only other time he stimmed this low was just before he had the GB attack in October. He regularly gets Pepcid AC at only his lunch meal – maybe he should get it before his dinner instead or in addition (both vomitfests happened in the evening). Wylie does not get any NSAIDS – not after he got really, really sick on Rimadyl in 2006.

I don’t understand about Nike’s Alk Phos – did it drop to a normal range when her cortisol dropped to 0.3, or did it normalize sometime after the cortisol level was normal for a while? I did apply Animax (has steroids) on a few small bear spots on his muzzle (where zinc deficiency scabs were) for the previous week – that may have caused the liver enzymes to increase some, but I don’t think it would have done too much. He also wasn't fasted (unless you count the vomitting:))before going to the ER, don't know if that matters. I guess I’ll just have to wait till we do more bloodwork just like I’ll have to wait and see what Uncle Sam does:confused:!

Kim,

Wylie has been on a mostly raw diet (Primal brand) since December. I had been giving him alittle raw green tripe with his meals since before the Cushing’s dx (about 5 months before the switch to raw diet). After his GB attack in October, he was given Baytril & when we were finished with that, the IMS wanted Forti Flora or yogurt added to his diet. So, the yogurt happened to be part of his diet while he transitioned to mostly raw. I don’t know if that helped or already being used to raw tripe helped, but I saw no problem during the transition. I did end up replacing the yogurt with B-naturals Ultra Probiotic (instead of Forti Flora) in mid-February after he had many zinc deficiency scab flare-ups. Yogurt has lots of calcium and calcium competes with zinc absorption.

Are your pups still on a raw diet? What is the diet & how are they doing?

Louise,

I was not familiar with the bright pumpkin color & splash of French’s yellow mustard:eek:! If I had a camera with me, I would have taken a picture. Thank god, his poops are looking more normal now.

-Susy

gpgscott
04-22-2009, 02:57 PM
Susy,

Man it is scary when we don't know.

I remember a bout of gastroentonitis. It was sudden onset and it was horrible. This was me not Moria.

It is going to take a bit for the ALKP number to go down.

I have started giving Moria tummy meds every morning and I also changed her diet. She gets ranantidine and it works well.

They can develop chronic digestive issuses.

Scott

Squirt's Mom
04-22-2009, 03:43 PM
Hmmmmm, pumpkin colored with a splash of French’s yellow mustard and a grass snack on the side. :eek: :eek: Sounds all too familiar!
Louise

Poop Salad!!!!

:D:D ROFL!!!! :D:D

ventilate
04-22-2009, 04:21 PM
Susy;
Nikes Alk Phos stayed elevated for about a year and half with her cortisol very well controlled, never above 5. She got down to 0.3 when I first loaded her (alk phos stayed elevated,) then the IMS wanted her down to below 1 when we were trying to figure out why her water uptake was not dropping and she got to 0.7 (alk phos elevated) but the last time when I did the miniload I think she was down to 0.5 maybe, that was in Oct off lyso till her next stim and lytes in Dec her AlkPhos was normal, If I am remembering it correctly. We tried the SAMe for a few months and that never made any difference so I quit giving it as it was an added expence that we, I, didnt need so all she was on was her pain meds and lysodren. Dont know but they have stayed within the normal range for the past year and half.with me doing nothing. Thats my one in a million dog.:D
Kenai eats dishrags if you remember and I have no idea where he gets them from but I do identify them as mine once they come back up again. Nike did have a bout with gastrointeritis when she was way younger. Do you know how much wall 20ccs of pepto will cover, I can tell you. The vet had me give 20ccs of pepto everytime she had loose stool. I would put the syringe in her cheek and squirt the pepto in, close her mouth thinking she was swallowing it then I would let her go, she would open her mouth and shake her head, dont need to say more other than I started giving it to her in my garage and had the only dark blue pink speckled jeep in anchorage. She probably ate some of the treats the moose would leave in my yard is what the vet thought and she was given antibiotics and was better very quickly. Sorry for the book.
Very discriptive poop leaves nothing to the imagination, good job, we become poop experts here one on my famous sayings is "Poop doesnt lie"
Hugs to Wylie and you
Sharon

Wylie's Mom
04-23-2009, 03:17 PM
Sharon,
Dont know but they have stayed within the normal range for the past year and half.with me doing nothing. Thats my one in a million dog.:D

I just realized that Wylie seems to be taking cues from Debbie's Harley, I am going to insist that he take his cues from Nike from now on!

Do you know how much wall 20ccs of pepto will cover, I can tell you...had the only dark blue pink speckled jeep in anchorage.

Note to self - "no pepto for Wylie";)

Leslie,
Poop Salad!!!!
:D:D ROFL!!!! :D:D

Oh, no – don’t tell Wylie that it’s “salad”.

Scott,
I might go ahead and give the Pepcid AC before his dinners instead of lunches.

-Susy