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-   -   Our sweet Vinny is an angel, July 27, 2018 (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4998)

jesse girl 03-09-2014 10:48 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
mel this is not totally uncommon . my jesse use to rise quite dramatically when insulin had faded during exercise. there was a time i gave her a mico dose of insulin before we went for our walk (not something i would recommend)

early on i would take jesse from one side of town to the other to lower her blood sugar and for jesse this just made her blood sugar more erratic.the temporary reduction had no lasting positive affect on blood sugar but she enjoyed the walk .

i learned with her times and amounts had to be constant so her body can adapt and over time it worked no snacks needed or micro doses of insulin anymore.

i think levels in the 300s and 400s is that gray area for dogs not terribly high but at a level that may have an affect over a long period of time . its definitely a level that there should not be panic.

for me i dont mind temporary adjustments or just the acceptance that jesse may need more insulin with higher levels . what we look for is any deterioration of numbers raising the dose as a key indicator moving forward .

we are close to 8 units for the day for jesse where she was stable on 6 or lower so a fairly substantial increase but her blood sugar became more stable that gave us the opportunity to have better regulation.

so with stable elevated blood sugar the opportunity to raise the dose in small amounts is possible. a half unit may lower blood sugar as much as 50 points and sometimes more in some and some cases having no affect . i dont like seeing anymore than that 50 point reduction with a dose adjustment higher.

Monsters Momma 03-09-2014 12:14 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Jesse's Girl...I'm beginning to think we may need to change his food again. I'm concerns that with these numbers the vet is going to want me to take him to 24 2x a day and quite honestly I can't blame her. I'd just like to give him the least amount necessary.

In December, I think we were at 19 before I switched his food and I knew he would go up, I guess I didn't expect this much. Maybe second guessing myself.

jesse girl 03-09-2014 12:29 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
yes i have second guess many things i have done the funny thing is what i believed in the beginning of this adventure was close to the correct path we are still on today

i switched jesses food quite a bit mixed and matched and ended going back to our original concept and tweaked it till we were satisfied

about insulin dosing what ever the dose that is needed for regulation you are comfortable with. doesnt matter to much how high that dose could be

now i can understand your desire to keep the dose as low as you can with maybe less insulin you may run into less difficulties if problems do arise and i do have that thought process with jesse but if she needs more and she has over the last year i am fine with that .

so you have to make a decision on returning to an earlier time as far as food or raising the dose but remember you just want to do one at a time and i dont believe there is a wrong answer with either

there are times with jesses challenges i had to turn off the noise and go to a quite place to make some important choices on what direction to go . because in the end the choice is yours and you will make the best for vinny

amydunn19 03-09-2014 01:30 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I think you just have to weigh it out. If you think the food is of higher benefit to him, then stay with it and increase his insulin. I mean there is not much difference between 19 & 25 - it is not like that extra insulin is indicative of how he is doing health wise and it is not like other drugs where you worry about damage to their organs. Of course, with a dog Vinny's size, you do have to worry about cost and how much that extra insulin will increase your bill. It is always something.....

Judi 03-09-2014 01:33 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsters Momma (Post 125263)
Jesse's Girl...I'm beginning to think we may need to change his food again. I'm concerns that with these numbers the vet is going to want me to take him to 24 2x a day and quite honestly I can't blame her. I'd just like to give him the least amount necessary.

In December, I think we were at 19 before I switched his food and I knew he would go up, I guess I didn't expect this much. Maybe second guessing myself.

When Jenny's cortisol was going low and she required less and less insulin I remember feeling (incorrectly) like I was doing something right. In my head less insulin meant healthier dog. It took Natalie to remind me that there are no prizes for the least insulin used! duh

Like Amy said, if he needs a little more, he needs a little more. No ear or tooth infections right?

hugs, Judi

Monsters Momma 04-03-2014 08:50 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Well we've continued to struggle with the weight / blood glucose issues since I posted last. We've changed him to a lower calorie but in the same Blue Buffalo family and we have upped his insulin because I could not get him below 300 on a regular basis. So he's on 26 units now of Vetsulin and hovering around 300 today.

I believe I need to reset back to December when I had his bg controlled in the high 100's to low 200's and see if we can add some calories to his diet from there...again. If anyone has some other ideas I'm willing to listen, I just feel like we've given this a fair shot and it's not working. I'm also wondering if I gave his past diet a fair shot after we figured out Vinny had lost all that weight. Maybe if we had just stayed the course he would have start gaining back weight.

Anyway, the plan I to do a rewind and switch him back to his old food and drop his insulin back too. Then punt.

sherryandfred 04-03-2014 09:15 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsters Momma (Post 127340)
Well we've continued to struggle with the weight / blood glucose issues since I posted last. We've changed him to a lower calorie but in the same Blue Buffalo family and we have upped his insulin because I could not get him below 300 on a regular basis. So he's on 26 units now of Vetsulin and hovering around 300 today.

I believe I need to reset back to December when I had his bg controlled in the high 100's to low 200's and see if we can add some calories to his diet from there...again. If anyone has some other ideas I'm willing to listen, I just feel like we've given this a fair shot and it's not working. I'm also wondering if I gave his past diet a fair shot after we figured out Vinny had lost all that weight. Maybe if we had just stayed the course he would have start gaining back weight.

Anyway, the plan I to do a rewind and switch him back to his old food and drop his insulin back too. Then punt.

i found after awhile when fred was on vetsulin that it didnt work for him..thats why we switched to what he was on the Novolin N..not sure if you can look at changing or not? if not i am sure you will figure it out..hope he does better for you soon..

jesse girl 04-03-2014 02:11 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
nothing wrong with switching back to an earlier time that saw better results . you have worked this new routine every which way you can and its not a complete loss . figuring out what doesn't work is important . i have allot of them on the list but sometimes some of them work there way back in but tweeked a different way .

sometimes its not the change that cause the problem and it can be the insulin just is not working that well anymore as sherry suggested and sometimes a change in insulin can help .

some dogs do well on vetsulin some do better on nph . sometimes changing insulin's gives the opportunity for a reset

try your plan first and see how it goes .

amydunn19 04-03-2014 07:37 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Mel - I think you have to do what makes you feel comfortable. The thing is these two foods aren't the only two foods on the planet. You could always look at something else. I don't know if you have the time schedule to keep experimenting but it took me several foods, many foods in fact, to get one that gave me results. Granted I was trying to find one that didn't upset her digestive system. I had a few that were ok but not perfect and I kept trying. It depends on how much time and testing you want to do. You do know a combo that works decently so that can always be your fall back food.

Auddog 04-03-2014 09:19 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Hi Mel,
I don't really have anything to add, I just wanted to share my support :) Sounds like you have a great plan laid out, and now it just comes down to implementation. Bazz and I are going to be watching your thread closely with high hopes things settle for you guys ; )
Good Luck!!

Audrey & Bazzle

Monsters Momma 04-04-2014 05:57 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sherryandfred (Post 127345)
i found after awhile when fred was on vetsulin that it didnt work for him..thats why we switched to what he was on the Novolin N..not sure if you can look at changing or not? if not i am sure you will figure it out..hope he does better for you soon..

I have wondered about that with the Vetsulin. That's one if the reasons I want to drop back to what I know worked. If it still works, than I'll know it isn't the Vetsulin. I just know that what I'm doing now isn't working.

Thanks Sherry, I know this is a difficult time for you an it means a lot that you took time to respond to me.
Hugs,
Mel

Monsters Momma 04-04-2014 06:10 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Jesse's Girl, Amy, and Audrey,
I really appreciate the support. I do feel I need to get back to something I know worked, then try something else. I've been watching Vinny like a hawk the last month or so and I really feel I need to get his bg down. His cataracts, I think, have gotten worse and I don't want that to continue just because his bg is high. I know he's at risk for blindness anyway, I don't wasn't to feel that it was something I did or didn't do that led to it. :(

Once I get him back to where I know I can, I'll try something else. The good thing about Vinny is that he'll eat anything! And I do mean anything! ;). Like you said Amy, this is my fall back. :). I know this works and if it doesn't after I've given it some time, I'll know it's not the food.

Now a question. Do you think a two week period is enough time to re-evaluate? I was thinking since I'm changing food and insulin that two weeks would be a good time frame with me checking him every day and doing a curve at the one week mark. What do you think?:confused:
Mel

Judi 04-04-2014 06:42 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
you know I'm no expert but I'd think 2 weeks would be a good time to re-check

hang in there!

amydunn19 04-04-2014 07:29 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
It depends on him - two weeks should be good.

Monsters Momma 04-08-2014 03:31 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Woohoo!! Vinny's numbers are coming down!! I haven't done a curve yet, but he's had two numbers I'm thrilled to see...229 and 189 at fasting! I haven't had a number in the 100's in months!

Just thought I'd share my joy!! :D

Linda1 04-08-2014 03:51 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Yay!! Hope the lower numbers continue.

sherryandfred 04-08-2014 04:32 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsters Momma (Post 127615)
Woohoo!! Vinny's numbers are coming down!! I haven't done a curve yet, but he's had two numbers I'm thrilled to see...229 and 189 at fasting! I haven't had a number in the 100's in months!

Just thought I'd share my joy!! :D

yaa vinny way to go keep it up!!

Monsters Momma 04-16-2014 06:15 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
So, I did a curve this past weekend that I wasn't entirely thrilled with. After talking to John, I realized I wasn't comparing apples to apples...we were actually feeding Vinny more now then we were in December! So, obviously we needed to take his insulin up too. :rolleyes: (This is where that log book comes in handy...the one I'm creating after the fact! :o) So we bumped him up to 21 units 2x day to go with the 3 cups of food and we're going to do another curve this next weekend.

Vinny does seem to be more hungry on the Rx food then on the Blue Buffalo. I wonder what it is that makes him more hungry?? :confused:

Forgot to add...Vinny 'found' a Hershey's chocolate bar yesterday! :eek: By the time we got home yesterday, his bg was 298 so I'm thinking he 'found' it much earlier in the day! First Pop-Tarts now chocolate bars...this dog has quite a sweet tooth! :p

jesse girl 04-16-2014 06:43 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
oh my mel chocolate bars and pop tarts . vinny has no idea he is diabetic

they say we are more satisfied as far as appetite with food that has more protein and less carbs with more highly digestible carb the more we want to eat . hence the weight problem in this country like eating chips and things like that

they say it has an affect on the brain with response to food . maybe the food vinney is eating may have the same response and feel more hungry

i know some foods i eat i feel more full longer . jesse would eat all the time if given the opportunity so who knows for sure .

yep raising the dose with elevated numbers in a curve is the normal procedure hope it brings those numbers down a bit

Monsters Momma 04-16-2014 06:55 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jesse girl (Post 128178)
oh my mel chocolate bars and pop tarts . vinny has no idea he is diabetic

:D No, no he doesn't!

Patty 04-16-2014 08:44 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quite the nose for seeking out trouble doesn't he? :D

Monsters Momma 04-16-2014 10:00 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Patty (Post 128189)
Quite the nose for seeking out trouble doesn't he? :D

Hence his nickname, Patty! ;)

k9diabetes 04-16-2014 11:43 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Vinny had a nice day! A little pre-Easter chocolate indulgence. ;)

I started keeping my log in Excel shortly after Chris was diagnosed. Every now and then I go back through it. Can tell you what his meals, insulin doses, and blood sugar were every day for four years. 8) Not sure if that makes me a crazy dog lady... probably does.

Natalie

Monsters Momma 04-16-2014 12:03 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by k9diabetes (Post 128199)
Vinny had a nice day! A little pre-Easter chocolate indulgence. ;)

I started keeping my log in Excel shortly after Chris was diagnosed. Every now and then I go back through it. Can tell you what his meals, insulin doses, and blood sugar were every day for four years. 8) Not sure if that makes me a crazy dog lady... probably does.

Natalie

Yes, yes it does! ;)

Ok Natalie...I don't think I'll ever get that...anal! LOL But I certainly do need to keep better records! Just trying to recreate the last 10 months have been proving this point to me!!

Monsters Momma 04-21-2014 12:05 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Ok, so I'm an idiot. :o

Friday, I got up as usual to feed Vinny and give him his insulin. I thought it might be a good day to do a curve, so I tested him before feeding him. He was at 109. Wow! I've not seen a number that low in awhile...a long while! So, me being the blond that I am thought "Ok, he's going to go up like he usually does, so I still should be able to give him his normal dose." :cool: NOPE. I was thinking about it again, after some coffee and waking up for an hour and thought I better test him...52! :eek: Gave him some Karo and a biscuit. Thankfully, that was as low as I know it got!

What an idiot. :o

Judi 04-21-2014 01:40 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
not an idiot at all! good catch.

I have to tell myself that however many units is what got her to her good level and to stay the course. so, it just depends on the dog and the dose.

I bet Vinny felt good!

jesse girl 04-21-2014 02:03 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
i would have done the same thing .

jesse normally rises and the lower she is the bigger the rise but on those rare occasion something happens on this diabetic adventure and the opposite occurs .

the dilemma with this its rare so do you reduce the dose at this level every time you see it ? thats the question many times we have a sixth sense about these things especially when something odd has occurred .

it sounds like you did think something might be up .

we want our pups to have good numbers and to be consistent in what we are doing but that can be difficult with this disease being unpredictable.

if you have a crystal ball that works then that would be a different story . our enemies can be complacency and not listening to that inner voice but with such busy lives full of distractions its hard to give our complete undivided attention to this . you would have to be more than human .

someone is definitely helping us though this

amydunn19 04-21-2014 07:36 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I have done the same thing. It always makes sense at the time then you wake up and realize how big a mistake you might have just made. Luckily, they survive us and our missteps.

Monsters Momma 04-27-2014 04:13 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
So I left a vial of Vetsulin out over night...do I need to throw it away?:o

jesse girl 04-27-2014 09:28 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
no problems mel

should be ok unless you put it in the oven by mistake

i have done weird things in my life where things of mine ended up in some really strange places

SidneyDog 04-27-2014 03:46 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
If you have an iPhone, I downloaded a free app from healthy cloud and it's a blood sugar log that does it's only little graph and you can export it into a word or excel document.

Cpaura 04-27-2014 06:35 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I read that it only goes bad if it gets hot. So room temp I am sure is fine. Also, when i first picked up Miley's insulin I asked if I needed to Refrigerate and Pharmacist said it is just so it last longer.

amydunn19 04-27-2014 07:11 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
A girl who worked for me is a type 1 diabetic. She used to keep her insulin in her car during the spring and summer. It always worked fine for her but I would never try it.

Linda1 04-28-2014 03:30 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
My daughter has a pump and she will work outside and sit by the pool in the hot sun for hours and the insulin has been fine. I'm sure it doesn't help the life span of the insulin.

Monsters Momma 04-28-2014 04:54 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Thanks all! I think I'll feel fine using it now with all your input! Afterall, it certainly doesn't last us very long with 22 units per dose!

Monsters Momma 05-05-2014 10:25 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
So, I tried to do a curve on Saturday and the first two numbers were ok. Then Vinny and Bogey were outside for an extended period, since John was out, and after playing really hard, he dropped 150 points! Luckily he started out close to 300, but I knew everything was skewed then. :rolleyes: A few hours later, he was again playing pretty hard, and John brought him in saying he thought something was wrong. I tested him and he was at 32!! :eek: That is officially his lowest number ever!!

So, Sunday, I ran a curve (I did not let him play like Saturday :rolleyes:). His numbers were great (mostly in the 100's), all within 100 points until the last fasting and that was about 150 point spread from lowest to highest. My question is, since we had to intervene on Saturday, are these numbers accurate? Assuming they are accurate, I think we're at Vinny's optimal dose even though he does have numbers in the 200's most of the time with an occasional 300 thrown in for good measure. I don't want those numbers in the 100's going that low again.

What do you think?

jesse girl 05-05-2014 10:43 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
thats great mel

you worked so hard to get him regulated

spontaneous play can be a problem as you can see . you may want to give something like a milk bone smeared in honey before you let him out to play and may have to cut him off after a certain amount of time . jesse usually gets a half hour boost with a teaspoon of honey .

i think i would give a thumbs up on the curve and accept it as accurate under normal circumstances .

great job from where vinny was just a short time ago

remember dogs can have a normal life but there are limitations as you can see this is where testing can be so helpful

Judi 05-05-2014 10:44 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I think someone gets a treat before playtime now! And you can plan for play time either with treats or a smaller dose that morning.

sounds great! :)

Cpaura 05-06-2014 10:36 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
How is Vinny feeling? What did you do to bring his numbers up?

jayi 05-06-2014 10:48 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsters Momma (Post 109350)
Patty, Vinny was eating Purina One Beyond...Bogey, our younger dog is still eating this. Don't think that isn't causing any confusion! :( Vinny is supposed to be tested at the midpoint between feedings/shots, no curve has been mentioned to my knowledge...I will be asking! In the meantime, I'll be getting a meter today and using jesse girl's ideas from another thread to get him used to it. By the next weekend, I want to be able to do my own curve just to see where he is.

My biggest worry right now is food...as I suppose some of you have guessed! ;) Being the stupid humans we are and the resourceful dog Vinny has become, he keeps getting into things he never would have before. Helping himself to food on the counter or in the pantry (dog food kept in here), cleaning out the cat food (behind two gates) or tearing open a bag of cat food (left alone for 15 minutes!), and getting into the trash. We really do have to change the way we do things around here and each time we 'fix' one thing, he gets into another! :eek: I know this has to be bad for him, but I guess I really don't know how bad; or better yet, what it can cause?

I'll be calling the vet today about snacks we can give him...instead of the pizza and chicken bones he's been helping himself to.

Thanks everyone for the welcome and input!

I shouldn't grin giggle but I can see this dog doing this.


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