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-   -   Our sweet Vinny is an angel, July 27, 2018 (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4998)

maladuca 07-20-2013 08:39 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Hmm. I don't understand that. Maybe watch for a UTI? But most likely it was the missed shot - or heat. I don't know where you live but here in Pennsylvania it is HOT! Teddy just lays on the AC vent all day.

Monsters Momma 07-21-2013 08:05 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Well we didn't go to the lake...long story. Anyway, I decided to do a curve on Vinny today...
326 6am before food or insulin
409 8am :eek:
338 10am

Just when you think you've got this figured out. We haven't seen numbers like these since he was first diagnosed. I'm not sure what is going on here! :confused:

jesse girl 07-21-2013 08:59 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
there can be a honeymoon period for some dogs still producing some insulin and when that decides to quit the need for insulin may need to go up .

another thought when seeing a change in blood sugar especially going higher its possible an infection maybe creeping in

it seems like after the missed shot things seem to have gotten out of whack .

Monsters Momma 07-21-2013 10:11 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Well, now at noon his number is 232. I don't get how missing one dose can do this several days later. :confused:

So, I guess we need to check him out at the vet? He seems to be acting just find; playing, eating, laying around. Pretty normal. We change his dosing by 1/2 unit and it throws everything off (plus of course the missed dose). These numbers make me feel like we should go up even higher with the insulin.

peggy0 07-21-2013 11:23 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Changing insulin dose can take at least 3to5 days of wobbling. Patience :). It could be an infection. If you up his insulin a half unit and it takes it down he just needed more insulin

Monsters Momma 07-24-2013 07:58 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Ok, so Vinny's curve on Sunday was...

6am 326 before food or insulin
8am 409
10am 338
12pm 232
2pm 249
4 pm 281
6 pm 172 before food or insulin

He isn't acting any different with the higher numbers, but I just don't get how we raised his insulin and his numbers go whacky.:confused:

I guess I shouldn't say he doesn't act any differently...he has been acting differently ever since his diagnosis. With frequent vet visits, us poking him to take his blood or give him his insulin, we now have a dog that wants to be loved on all the time...by everyone! It used to just be Daddy that got to love on him, and Mommy that would get up to feed, water or let him out. :rolleyes: Or at least it seemed that way. He's not demanding about those things like he is about getting some love!

He does seem more timid now...like he's going to get into trouble for something. And he won't go off the porch to our back yard about 50% of time unless one of us goes outside too. However, if anyone comes to the front door...he scares the...you know...out of them since he's black and you don't see him running at the door! :o I swear one of these days he's going to go right through the glass!

Anyway...do you make anything out of all of this and do you have any suggestions??
Mel

Abby's Mom 07-24-2013 08:27 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Just curious, if his reading in the evening continue to level out. You mentioned that this curve is from Sunday, but you may want to do another this weekend.

I had found that it would take a good week for Abby to settle down with a dose change/food change/"anything" change.

Also, pick a 'normal' day. You don't want to be doing a curve on an off day when they may be out of their normal routine.

Barb

Monsters Momma 07-24-2013 11:02 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
A normal day is when we aren't home Barb! ;) Weekends are the exception around here. We'll have to try again this weekend.

Abby's Mom 07-24-2013 11:56 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Well that is a normal day, a weekend. At least your readings are consistently non-normal. ;)

Barb

peggy0 07-24-2013 12:06 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
forbins numbers were always like this when he was on vetsulin. When I switched him to humulin he leveled out. I could never get him consistent with vetsulin for some reason. Other dogs do great with it.

Judi 07-24-2013 12:08 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Maybe a larger dose at night since he is only sleeping?

Just throwing it out there.

poor big baby wanting extra loving. give him some from me too

Monsters Momma 07-28-2013 08:43 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Ok, I am extremely confused about a lot of things! :confused: First, increasing Vinny's insulin should have made his numbers go down, right? Well, here's his number on July 12:

17 units BID
6 am 199 (before food and insulin)
8 am 190
10 am 199 AT2 and 107 Prime
12 pm 229
2 pm 192 AT2 and 132 Prime
4 pm 205 (vet AT) 246 (our AT2) 209 (our Prime
6 pm 236

Now, July 26 (AT2) 18 units BID
6 am 213 (before food and insulin)
7:45 am 146
10 am 284
12:30 pm 274
2:30 pm 283
5:30 pm 300 (fed early because we were going out)

I left a message for the vet about those numbers...what do you make of it? :confused:

I tested him midday yesterday and he was 183, today...283.

Second, neuropathy (sp?). Vinny's back leg's seem to be a little weak sometimes, but not often. Also there's the occasional limp when he gets up from laying down for awhile. Is all of this connected to neuropathy? Can someone explain what causes this? :confused:

Obviously, I haven't gotten all of this down yet! :rolleyes:
Mel

Eddie 07-28-2013 10:06 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
If those were our numbers I would not be especially worried. So many factors can affect them (exercise, heat, any extra bits of food they find, general excitement etc etc) and none of them are terrible. I know you'd expect them to go down a bit with the higher dose but some days they don't do what you expect. Sorry that's not very helpful! I'm sure someone else will have a more insightful analysis.

Eddie had bad neuropathy and it was as if his whole back end had gone numb including his tail. Your Vinny may have a bit of that too. When Eddie gets very high numbers now I sometimes notice his back leg looking slightly as if it is getting left behind- very slight so you'd hardly spot it. I don't know the science for why it happens but it does seem to be intimately related to their BG levels and it resolved as we got Eddie's numbers better. We did also give him B12 Methyl (easy to find online) as there is a study which suggests that might help. We gave him a lot of it when he was bad but of course you can't tell if it did any good or not.
Antonia

momofdecker 07-28-2013 10:16 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsters Momma (Post 111127)
Second, neuropathy (sp?). Vinny's back leg's seem to be a little weak sometimes, but not often. Also there's the occasional limp when he gets up from laying down for awhile. Is all of this connected to neuropathy? Can someone explain what causes this? :confused:

Obviously, I haven't gotten all of this down yet! :rolleyes:
Mel

Mel,
I'm not sure what you are describing would be caused by neuropathy. My understanding of neuropathy is that it is more of a numbness (dragging of legs). If Vinny is limping I'd be inclined to think there is pain of some sorts involved. And if there is pain, there is a chance that could be impacting his bg levels. We could never tell if Decker was in pain or not. He was pretty high strung and could flip on a dime if he were so inclined. His GP vet had evalauted his rear legs many times and did note there was weakness and that he was off balance. She never saw how bad his front legs had gotten until after he'd been to the neurologist. But she never felt he was in pain.

The neurologist prescribed gabbapentin and his insulin needs dropped from 5u levemir to 4.5 pretty quickly. It led us to believe he may have been experiencing some level of pain.

There is cosequin you could try with Vinny. It's meant to be more of a joint supplement. If Vinny is having hip and/or knee pain or maybe even a limited amount of arthritis, the cosequin may help. Might be worth having a vet evaluate as well.

We tried the human grade glucosamine with Decker and saw an immediate rise in bg. We bought cosequin through his vet office and never saw any impact on bg. Have since learned that you can buy it at Petco, Petsmart, BJ's Wholesale Club, etc... Just bought a large bottle for Kinser (132 tablets), who is starting to show signs of arthritis, at BJ's for around 30.00. By far the least expensive place around us. Cosequin has a loading period. Vinny would probably get two tablets in the morning and one at night for a period of four to six weeks and then you'd reduce to one tablet in the morning and one at night. Kinser is quite picky about meds but he eats the cosequin right along with his food. Unlike his allergy meds which he is known to cheek and spit out near the door when we are not looking :eek:!

CraigM 07-28-2013 10:34 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
+1 to Eddie / Antonia's comment. Daily variance was probably at play. Even when I get a "good" curve I try to remember that it was just one curve and the next day could be higher / lower (hopefully not by too much:)) I think it may have been Natalie who likes to remind us that BG isn't like a thermostat where if you move the temperature setting up, you will always get warmer:).

Also, going from 17 to 18 units is a small increase, less than 6%. I would have done the same thing, or possibly have only increased by 1/2 unit because you did have numbers in the 100s on 7-12 . It's really fun, isn't it?!:D

Craig

Riliey and Mo 07-28-2013 11:30 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Hey Mel, Craig, s theory of adjusting by half a unit looks good.

See what your vet thinks about decreasing 1/2 unit to 17 1/2?

Mo

CraigM 07-28-2013 11:42 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Riliey and Mo (Post 111144)
Hey Mel, Craig, s theory of adjusting by half a unit looks good.

See what your vet thinks about decreasing 1/2 unit to 17 1/2?

Mo

I wasn't suggesting dropping to 17.5, just that I might not have gone up a whole unit because of the several numbers in the 100s. I'd give the 18 a try, but monitor.

Craig

Monsters Momma 07-28-2013 12:41 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Riliey and Mo (Post 111144)
Hey Mel, Craig, s theory of adjusting by half a unit looks good.

See what your vet thinks about decreasing 1/2 unit to 17 1/2?

Mo

We did go up by 1/2 a unit at first, here's the curve for 17 1/2.

6 am 326 (before food and insulin)
10 am 409
12 pm 338
2 pm 232
4 pm 281
6 pm 172 (before food and insulin)

We waited a week between increasing from 17 to 17 1/2 and 17 1/2 to 18.

So, my inclination is to go back to 17...but that makes no sense with what I know about insulin...which isn't as much as all of you here. :(

Riliey and Mo 07-28-2013 03:35 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
The curve on 17 units looked good.

It might be Vinny was honeymooning, when that is over the numbers will rise.

Theirs nothing to support this

Did the vet get back to you?

Maybe give it another 7 days, do a curve

Mo

Monsters Momma 07-29-2013 03:18 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Thanks Mo, that's what I was thinking. Patience is key, right? :)

Monsters Momma 08-05-2013 02:56 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I did a curve this past Saturday. Our vet asked that we raise Vinny from 18 to 18.5 units BID. I started this Monday night so I thought by Saturday Vinny should be adjusted. :)

242 5:30 am before food and insulin
131 8 am
121 10 am
152 12 pm
124 3 pm
268 6 pm before food and insulin

What do you think? I'm just a bit concerned by the lowest numbers, but this was done with the AT2 and mine reads a bit higher than the vets.

Otherwise, Vinny is doing remarkable! :cool: I can't believe what a willing test subject he's been! :D

Mel

Patty 08-05-2013 05:30 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Nice. :) I'd hold steady. You can always check the low point periodically too.

Abby's Mom 08-05-2013 06:48 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Beautiful numbers..!!

SandyL 08-05-2013 06:52 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Those are beautiful numbers!!!! Like patty said, I wouldn't do a thing different and hold steady! Congrats!!

Sandy

Rubytuesday 08-05-2013 07:45 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Wow, what I would have done for numbers like those!

I also would not change anything for now. Maybe a week later do an abbreviated curve to be sure the dose hasn't settled in more lowering the lows.

Later on if you want to bridge the gap between the low and the high to get it within 100 points, you could try adding just a hair of carbs to the meal. For rit now though I wouldn't mess with it.

Congratulations! Tara

jesse girl 08-05-2013 07:50 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
yes as others said i would leave the dose alone

you can start playing with food or snacks maybe that could remove the spike even further .

i

CraigM 08-05-2013 08:03 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Most excellent curve!:)

Craig

Riliey and Mo 08-05-2013 09:03 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Awesome curve Mel, congrats from me too

Just check the 10 am bg periodically

You Rock Vinnie

Mo

amydunn19 08-05-2013 04:40 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Good curve!

Monsters Momma 08-07-2013 10:05 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
:o So...I'm a dumb butt!

I ordered some Free Style test strips from I'm not sure where. I figured out I had one more AT2 strip left so I decided to do a quick comparison. I set the meter on 7...40 points higher. I set the meter on 35...40 points lower! I had an 80 point spread! :eek:

So I went back to Craig's post and realized...I bought the wrong thing. :( So, I just went and bought what I do need. Anyone need Free Style InsulLinx Test Strips? :o

Riliey and Mo 08-07-2013 10:15 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Lol, sorry lol

CraigM 08-07-2013 10:20 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Don't feel bad! There are soooo many test strips!

Craig

Abby's Mom 08-07-2013 03:26 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I have done this, on many things. Thinking I got the right ones, and ended up with the wrong ones!!

maladuca 08-12-2013 05:55 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Hi Mel! How is Vinny doing lately? Still good numbers I hope!

Margaret

Monsters Momma 08-13-2013 07:09 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Margaret...I just got new testing strips yesterday! A week without them makes you think there's something wrong with your dog every day! ;)

We're back on track! Hope Teddy isn't any worse for wear from last night!
Mel

Monsters Momma 08-14-2013 05:46 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I think I have a problem...Vinny's bg after 1.5 hours was 321 this morning which is a little high for him. Fifteen minutes after I tested him, he ate Pop Tarts! :eek: Geez, I hate to see how much sugar is in those!!

Then after my panic attack about that, I couldn't remember giving him his shot this morning! :( I think I did, I'm pretty sure I did, but I had just gotten up and really can't remember.

I think I'm just in panic mode right now! :o

First, is there anything I can do to counteract the Pop Tarts?
Second, if his sugar skyrockets because of this, what do I look for?
Third... I can't remember #3.

Abby's Mom 08-14-2013 05:51 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Sounds like you are having a rough start this morning.....;)

If you do not remember, then I would not give a shot... Higher blood sugar for short term is better than low blood sugar. Let it ride, and go back to your normal routine this evening.

Exercise may help to lower blood sugar.

Hopefully your day gets better.

Barb

Monsters Momma 08-14-2013 06:23 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Thanks Barb...I think I've calmed down now. :)

Let me ask a couple more questions...

I've noticed that since we went up to 18.5 units bid, Vinny seems to have more of an appetite, losing weight and drinking more. I couldn't test him because of my ordering snafu, but do you think this means he's running a bit high?

I tested him last night before dinner at 242 and this morning after eating at 321. I am going to do a curve on him this weekend and take him to the vet to weigh him. The last curve I did on him at 18.5 units his highest number after fasting was 268.

What else should I be doing? I have not checked his urine, but should I? And how exactly do you do that? ;)

Ok, I think that's it... ;)

Emily 08-14-2013 06:51 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Pop Tarts.....they are delicious :D Glad you guys made it through ok :)

I initially started testing Elliot w/ urine strips b/c I didn't know blood testing at home was an option. Looking back...it really didn't give me much useful info...so I'm lucky that Elliot allowed me to transition to blood without much of a fight.

If you do want to check urine....I just followed Elliot around the yard with a small plastic dish. You don't need much at all. I tried get a mid-stream sample :) Then you just dip the test strip and count to 30. Just remember....the bladder is a holding tank and is giving you information over hours of time rather than the "exact" snap shot that blood gives you.

I've been having trouble with Elliot's fasting numbers, too. I can't seem to get them lower than upper 300's/low 400's. Just made a diet change.....so I'm hoping that does the trick.

Good luck with Vinny!

Judi 08-14-2013 07:36 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
you've had a rough morning! it may take him a day or so to settle down but he will. little stinker!

A lot of people use a long handled ladle if they have one. my vet made something like that using a yardstick. Jenny is so small I just push a disposable pan under her if I can.

do you have strips? hang in there. Judi


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