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-   -   Our sweet Vinny is an angel, July 27, 2018 (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4998)

CraigM 07-04-2013 09:46 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
My conversion would make that 69 about 104, a good number. Guess I wouldn't take corrective action until Annie went below 60ish on the Prime (90ish true). Of course that's based on my conversion.

Have you thought about the $60 AlphaTrak2 promo?

Craig

Monsters Momma 07-04-2013 10:09 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Actually Craig, I should be getting my AlphaTrak2 tomorrow! ;)

I'll let you know what the next number is at 2...corrective action being some Karo syrup or carb?

CraigM 07-04-2013 10:19 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
That's a "every dog is different" sort of thing. With Annie (small pup), I would just give 5-6 pieces of her kibble to stop a drop. For years I'd do the yo-yo thing: she would go a bit low, I'd give honey + food, and two hours later she would be pushing 300:rolleyes: this would be something you will have to learn on your own because Vinny will react in his own way. Sorry:)

Craig

Monsters Momma 07-04-2013 11:12 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Well, we just came in to check on Vinny and he was very wobbly. I told my daughter we needed to do a check right then and it had only dropped to 66, but because of him being wobbly I did give him a little Karo syrup. Maybe since he's a big dog he's reacting to the drop this way? Right now I'm wishing I had that AlphaTrak today! :(

We're going to stay in and watch him for a bit now to see how he does.

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom 07-04-2013 11:28 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Hi!

You will definitely want to lower his next insulin dose.

CraigM 07-04-2013 11:29 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Better safe than sorry. You gotta make decisions and not second guess. Looking forward to the following tests;)

craig

jesse girl 07-04-2013 11:59 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
its not a good thing to see affects of low blood sugar but it does give information for the particular meter you are using and the level you do see hypoglycemic affects .

so i would say at this point in regulation and the symptoms your are seeing i would reduce the dose as tami stated and you would like those numbers above a 100

the problem with those levels it doesn't give much room to play with if you see some spontaneous activity

Rubytuesday 07-04-2013 12:33 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
8am 156
10am 118
12pm 69
2pm 66


I would be suspicious that in between 12 & 2 he dropped lower and was possibly on his way back up.

If you have another curve that will give you some indication of whether he had hit bottom. Sometimes if I saw a similar lowish number on the Prime and if I wasn't sure if Ruby had hit her lowest point yet I would test at 1 or 1/2 hour increments.

For interventions it is good to give a fast acting sugar and then a carby treat. That way the sugar goes to work quickly, but when it leaves just as quickly the carb will kick in instead of the dog going low again.

I had to give Ruby a fair amount of syrup and then treats, where as Patty would just rub a drop of.....honey?? on Ali's gums. You will need to see how your guy reacts. I would probably give him a small sized dog biscuit in addition to the syrup.

Tara

Monsters Momma 07-04-2013 01:14 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Vinny's 4pm number is 86. I guess I was expecting more of jump since at 2 when his number was at 66 and was wobbly we gave him a bit of Karo and some of his food. Looking at your posts, maybe a cracker would have been better since we don't have dog biscuits? And when you say reduce his insulin dose...educate me on why and how much if you could? :confused:

I am looking forward to getting the AlphaTrak2 just so I know how far I'm off with the Prime!

I can't tell you how thankful I am for all your input! Now it's just for me to absorb. ;)

Oh and I didn't mention that it appears Vinny 'twisted' his left front paw in the first joint playing with our other dog. He's limping a bit, but quits after walking on it a bit. Could this be affecting things one way or the other?

SandyL 07-04-2013 01:24 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Tight regulation is a great thing IF you're always going to be home with him... Such as catching the lows. I for one work full time and both my dogs go in and out as they please. Which means barking and running the fence with the mailman, ups guy, squirrels etc. and you know what all that can do to a bg!!

I use the One Touch and have always taken the readings at face value. No conversions. Tiggy has been between 125 and 250 now for a couple years. That 125 has given me enough wiggle room to not even worry about her when I'm gone 9- 10 hours in a day. You might want to consider this for when you go back to work

Sandy

Riliey and Mo 07-04-2013 01:53 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
hi Mel

I would definately lower Vinnie, s dose by 1/2 next injection. he is getting 20 then 19 1/2.
when u get the alphatrack test at the times he goes low or gets wobbly k.
wait 3 days then do a curve.

I put abit of jam on Riles gums, followed by 1/2 a milkbone then a few pieces of his kibble then test him an hour later. this brings his bg up. I find the karo raises his bg too high.

your doing great at catching the low good work

Mo

jesse girl 07-04-2013 02:33 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
well the numbers are not jumping around that much and maybe a half unit is ok as mo sugested but being so new to your pups trends i would reduce by a minimum of a unit just to push those numbers up a bit . if they dont move and remain in a lower range dont hesitate to lower the dose further

as sandy said dogs do just fine above a normal range

it takes time for the body to adapt

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom 07-04-2013 03:55 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
If Monster Vinny were my dog, I think I would reduce by 2-3 units and hold for 1 week at that level, then do another curve. Of course, doing spot checks etc each day.

Monsters Momma 07-04-2013 04:52 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Well, about the time for his next test/feed/insulin and the fireworks around here had started! Vinny is not so nervous around them, but our younger dog, Bogey, gets anxious, so we just fed Vinny, reduced the insulin to 19 from 20 and called it a night on everything else.

I'm going to have everything ready tonight to test him before I feed him in the morning just to see where he is after fasting all night. I'll spot check him tomorrow, but if I understand...his body won't adapt to the 19 twice a day for a few days so there's no need to do a curve, right?

I can't tell you how much I appreciate you all!! I think we would have been in a panic had it not been for the input you all gave us! Thank you!! :)
Mel

jesse girl 07-04-2013 05:33 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
you dont necessarily need to do a curve but i would place an emphasis on the times vinny usually run low . you dont want to take your finger of the trigger of testing and want to be sure he is out of that lower range

anytime you see a low blood sugar event the individual dog is not able with stored glucose from the body i to balance injectable insulin which does point to an overdose situation .

so i would keep an eye on things . its great you are seeing levels in a normal range but it did happen fairly quickly and its alright to pull back a bit you can always raise back up again maybe by a quarter unit if needed in the future .

all information is good even if it is scary at this point you know 20 units is to much for what you are doing wright now .

momofdecker 07-04-2013 06:03 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
You are doing a great job!

One trend we learned over time was that Decker would either not have a nadir (without food/karo intervention) or he would continue to drop beyond his nadir time when his dosage was too high. He had a lot going on near the end so we often adjusted his insulin amount based on his fasting reading and whether or not he was getting prednisone. Sometimes it was a bit of a guessing game so we tested a lot to make sure he stayed safe.

Over time we also established a routine of treatment when his bg was dropping to soon or too much in a short time. We used karo, milk bones and his dry dog food to intervene depending on what his bg readings told us. It took us awhile to find a routine that worked for him though. In the beginning we often over-corrected, which resulted in an elevated fasting number the next day.

It took me a long time to figure out that was the beauty of home testing. It allowed us to figure out what his routine was. The established patterns and trends that he'd developed over time helped us come up with a plan that allowed us to overcome some of the obstacles he was confronted with and enabled us to still keep his bg in a decent range for a good part of the day. Of course, there were always exceptions. The only challenge is that every dog is different. They each write their own story.

Since you had to intervene with karo/food today, I'd check tomorrow around the same time to see how the 1u reduction is working for Vinny, especially since you did not seen much of a rise two hours later despite the extra sugar/food.

Looks like overall he is doing well. Keep up the good work!

peggy0 07-04-2013 07:03 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I agree with tami. Watch him closely. One unit may not be enough.

SandyL 07-04-2013 07:41 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Totally agree with Tami and Peggy.... Especially with the nervousness with the fireworks. You don't know if the added stress will send him sky high, or make his BG plummet :(. Every dog is different!

Sandy

Monsters Momma 07-05-2013 09:06 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Looks like 19 might be a little high too. We checked Vinny at noon and his number was 76. Yesterday it was 69 so not much change. We decided to intervene now instead of waiting so gave him a little Karo with a bit of food. Will check again in ah hour or two.

Vinny is tired of being a pincushion...I can tell because I have to hunt him down now with treats in hand to do any testing. :( I remember reading that someone had written that they kept telling themselves they were doing it to keep their dog healthy and that's what I keep saying.

Thanks again!
mel

Riliey and Mo 07-05-2013 10:03 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
did u get the alphatrack meter yet. remember it reads higher. that 76 should be higher with the alphatrack.

maybe u can change his bg testing spot, rotating it around.

your doing great

Monsters Momma 07-05-2013 10:57 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
His new number is only 77...how could it only have gone up by 1 and what are we supposed to do now?

He doesn't seem to be in any 'trouble', just lazy...that does seem to be his natural state! ;)

Still waiting on the mail to get here to see if the AlphaTrak2 is in the mail. Maybe I should just wait on it then test him?

Mel

Riliey and Mo 07-05-2013 11:18 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Vinnies not dropping. test his fasting number tonight then drop him down 1/2 unit. 18 iu. then test again at his low point.

cut back on his walks for now.

are you adding abit of a carb to his food?

Riliey and Mo 07-05-2013 11:38 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
apparently the relion prime reads 20 to 30 lower than the alphatrack. the conversion to alphatrack is divide the relion meter by .7 .

77 .7 = 110

Deacrease by 1/2 unit tonight should bring Vinnie up more

hope this helps

Mo

CraigM 07-05-2013 11:47 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Riliey and Mo (Post 109707)

by increasing by 1/2 unit tonight should bring Vinnie up more

Mo

Think you really mean to decrease?

Craig

peggy0 07-05-2013 12:22 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Yes please decrease! And I would decrease by a unit. Lets get his level up a bit to give him some cushion. We don't know his pattern well enough to run this low in my opinion

Riliey and Mo 07-05-2013 01:15 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I apologize for the error. I edited the post to read decrease.

Monsters Momma 07-05-2013 03:03 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Ok...got the AlphaTrak2 in the mail today and decided to use it just before his evening meal. I used both and got these numbers:

ReliOn Prime...121
AlphaTrak2...245

Why would they be so far apart? Here I thought I was understanding this better, but not now. :(

peggy0 07-05-2013 03:21 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
The best thing to do for peace of mind is to take it with you to the vet and match it up with their test. I've never used anything but the alpha track It was less than 10 points different than my vets test

CraigM 07-05-2013 03:32 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsters Momma (Post 109713)
Ok...got the AlphaTrak2 in the mail today and decided to use it just before his evening meal. I used both and got these numbers:

ReliOn Prime...121
AlphaTrak2...245

Why would they be so far apart? Here I thought I was understanding this better, but not now. :(

That's a much wider difference than I've seen between my Prime and AlphaTrak2. What "code" are the AT2 test strips?

:)Excuse me, I'm not trying to insult, but did you "code" the AT2?;) I can see someone coming from an automatic meter like the Prime to a meter that needs to be coded to make a mistake.

Other side-by-side tests will be interesting.

Craig

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom 07-05-2013 03:48 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I suggest you reduce by a couple more units until its all sorted....perhaps 16? Trust me, you do not want to experience a seizure due to hypoglycemia....:(

Monsters Momma 07-05-2013 03:51 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigM (Post 109716)
That's a much wider difference than I've seen between my Prime and AlphaTrak2. What "code" are the AT2 test strips?

:)Excuse me, I'm not trying to insult, but did you "code" the AT2?;) I can see someone coming from an automatic meter like the Prime to a meter that needs to be coded to make a mistake.

Other side-by-side tests will be interesting.

Craig

You are not insulting me at all! No I did not. Frankly, I've been fighting a migraine all day and didn't really look that look that hard at the book. Before tomorrow morning, I will make sure I do that.

Thank you for the info.
Mel

Monsters Momma 07-05-2013 03:58 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Soaphie & Sydney's Mom (Post 109717)
I suggest you reduce by a couple more units until its all sorted....perhaps 16? Trust me, you do not want to experience a seizure due to hypoglycemia....:(

Tami,
I took him down to 18 before I saw your post. Do you think 18 isn't enough?
Mel:(

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom 07-05-2013 04:10 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Hi,

I personally would go lower than 18 (perhaps to 16 until you figure it out) as you are seeing lows right now that, even when you interfere with karo or a treat, aren't really increasing.

What was the BG tonight before you gave 18? I would watch carefully and interfere if needed (which you already know :))

CraigM 07-05-2013 04:20 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
You are doing great! So many things to remember / try to learn, it's amazing we all don't have a continuous headache;)

What is the code on the vial of strips. I think so far I've seen "5" and "35", wondering if there are any other code numbers being used.

Thanks for mentioning your results, it caused me to test Annie:

Prime 41
AT2 63

Yea, a bit lower than what I like;) No panic, gave Annie two VERY small puppy treats along with her normal post-test green bean.

Your Prime 121 is probably close to a 183 AT2 reading, so I would think the 18 units would be low enough?

Craig

SandyL 07-05-2013 06:23 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
I too would go down to 16U with a low of 77. You REALLY Want to get away from the lows and give yourself some room! You can always work back up 1/2 unit at a time to obtain a comfortable range. Hypo sezures aren't pretty and EXTREMLY dangerous!

Sandy

Riliey and Mo 07-05-2013 07:30 PM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
It looks like Vinnies fasting number tonight was 245 with the alphatrack

I agree with Craig to stay with the 18 units check his low points tomorrow

Monsters Momma 07-06-2013 03:38 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
So, starting out today with another migraine...I swear they truly make me a dumb blonde! I had to poke Vinny 4 times in order to get enough blood to test him twice! And then of course each monitor had to be started again! :p
After fasting all night...
Prime...87
AT2...186 (I did make sure it was coded ;) )
Poor guy, I'm thinking his ear might be better, but I need to shave it.

So these numbers seem pretty far apart too...I was thinking maybe I should get new batteries for each so I know what I'm dealing with. I just don't know why they are so far apart. I'm assuming I should pay more attention to the AT2? And is this a good number after fasting?

Mel

maladuca 07-06-2013 05:33 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Mel - Teddy's numbers were about 100 apart from the ReliOn to the Alpha Trac. So that sounds about right. I tested him at 400 and the vet's Alpha Trac was 496.

jesse girl 07-06-2013 07:29 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
the best way to settle this is to compare with a lab analyzer you might have to call around to other vets to see if they have that capability .

the thing that concerns me that you saw symptoms of low blood sugar on the prime at where you should see it which i believe was in the 60s now if you add a 100 points to that for the alpha trak you would completely think everything is ok.

i am not saying the pet meter is off or the prime is wright i am just going by physical symptoms you have posted

so yes low batteries can have an affect but i would compare both meters against a lab analyzer to give you some peace of mind .

meters can have some humane error situations i have seen to much blood give false highs and not enough give false lows

most comparisons with most meters i have seen are not this off in a lower range . like to see a comparisons below a 100

CraigM 07-06-2013 07:56 AM

Re: My Monster Vinny
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsters Momma (Post 109739)
So, starting out today with another migraine...I swear they truly make me a dumb blonde! I had to poke Vinny 4 times in order to get enough blood to test him twice! And then of course each monitor had to be started again! :p
After fasting all night...
Prime...87
AT2...186 (I did make sure it was coded ;) )
Poor guy, I'm thinking his ear might be better, but I need to shave it.

So these numbers seem pretty far apart too...I was thinking maybe I should get new batteries for each so I know what I'm dealing with. I just don't know why they are so far apart. I'm assuming I should pay more attention to the AT2? And is this a good number after fasting?

Mel


That's still a greater spread than what I've seen with the Prime / AT2. You had different blood droplets for each test? About how long apart were the two tests? Within a minute, or more like 5 minutes? Just looking for anything that might make the difference:)

Craig


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