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-   -   Sissy became an Angel December 29, 2016 (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5557)

CraigM 06-26-2013 08:57 PM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stylynjm (Post 109180)
Don't understand a lot about vetsulin, but see what vet says next week. I guess the problem is getting it!!! Does it have a longer life than nph?? (about 45 days once opened)

You probably won't get 45 days out of a vial of Vetsulin. The vial contains 400 units, and if you continue with about 13 units a day the vial will be sucked dry in about 30 days.

Craig

Emily 06-27-2013 04:38 AM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stylynjm (Post 109180)
Thanks Holi and Emily,
Sissy has had food allergies, but they seem to have disappeared. She has held exact weight 14.2 for 10 months. Her coat actually looks better, her energy is low but always has been. She gets 6.5 units nph (novolin). Her cholesterol is a bit high, but her other values, alt,alk, are down. not normal but lower than last time, and her rbc etc were high last time, in Jan 2013, and are now in normal range.
I know this can be a guessing game, hard to know.
It seems the thyroid panel is not to expensive. 60.00 to 80.00.
Don't understand a lot about vetsulin, but see what vet says next week. I guess the problem is getting it!!! Does it have a longer life than nph?? (about 45 days once opened)

I agree with Craig....expiration date probably won't matter with
Vetsulin b/c you will go through it faster. The syringes (not needles) are larger, so 6.5 units of your current insulin would only equal approx. 3-4 units in the new syringe. However, just b/c Sissy need 6.5 units of her current insulin doesn't necessarily mean that will remain the same with Vetsulin. I currently have Elliot at 13 units and that will last 2 weeks (400 units in the vial divided by 26 units/day= 15 days) Not very cost effective unfortunately :( I am in the process of working with his diet and lowering his dosage....mostly because I want him to be as healthy as possible :) but partly because a lower insulin dosage will be so much more cost effective:o

Best of luck as you move forward!

Soaphie & Sydney's Mom 06-27-2013 04:58 AM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stylynjm (Post 109180)
Thanks Holi and Emily,
Sissy has had food allergies, but they seem to have disappeared. She has held exact weight 14.2 for 10 months. Her coat actually looks better, her energy is low but always has been. She gets 6.5 units nph (novolin). Her cholesterol is a bit high, but her other values, alt,alk, are down. not normal but lower than last time, and her rbc etc were high last time, in Jan 2013, and are now in normal range.
I know this can be a guessing game, hard to know.
It seems the thyroid panel is not to expensive. 60.00 to 80.00.
Don't understand a lot about vetsulin, but see what vet says next week. I guess the problem is getting it!!! Does it have a longer life than nph?? (about 45 days once opened)

Hi there!

I don't think you should have much issue getting vetsulin now that it's back in the US. I know you can order online at allivet, or get from your own vet. One bottle lasts us about 3 weeks.

stylynjm 06-27-2013 09:52 AM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
I still want to do a food adjustment with things as they are. I have had house guests for 3 weeks and then sissy had rabies etc, and was a little eratic.
I think Monday I will start the food adjustment.My new regular vet and Sissy's internist don't carry vetsulin and I would rather not make the change if food adjustment would help.
Holi, I think the complete thyroid panel is more like 150-175.00. But, I think it is worth knowing. I myself am working with adjusting my thyroid medicine. If Sissy had thyroid issues, I don't think it would be to difficult to fix. Don't know how it would change insulin.
:confused: I feel I should do thyroid and food adjustment before changing insulin. First things first;) Any thoughts???

momofdecker 06-27-2013 12:28 PM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
Knowing that hypothyroidism is a progressive disease, meaning many of the obvious physical symptoms may not show up until 70% of the thyroid has been destroyed, coupled with the fact that hypothyroidism can cause insulin resistance in diabetic dogs, I'd want to know definitively if she was hypothyroid or not before making any change in insulin. My sense, and it's just my own observation, is that diabetic dogs who are diagnosed with both diabetes and hypothyroidism at the same time tend to find a steady insulin dose and don't have to make major adjustments from the thyroid meds. Dogs who have had diabetes and have adjusted insulin based on undiagnosed hypothyroidism may end up needing to reduce the insulin dose. My theory is because hypothyroidism is known to cause insulin resistance the diabetic dog may still have decent control over the diabetes but just needs a much higher than average dose of insulin. In Decker's case, he also had high lipids and pancreatitis and I'm not sure any dose of insulin would have been able to effectively control his diabetes. He also had the cold intolerance (or more appropriately, for him, heat seeking behavior), where with thick black fur he'd lay directly in the sun in 80+ degree weather. We noted his bg was much more steady and lower when the temperatures were higher. We just had no idea why at the time.

There are a variety of options if cost is a factor. Our GP vet could have run the full thyroid panel. Their office runs it through MSU, which is also well known for specializing in thyroid disease. MSU does not take age and breed into consideration though. The cost would have been less had we taken that route. I believe there may even be an option to pay for a consult with Dr. Dodds asking her to review results from a GP vet. I'm not sure what the cost for that may be though.

We chose to go with Dr. Dodds through Hemopet because I'd been very impressed with her knowledge through our email correspondence. I don't know many professionals at her level that would have taken the time to even read/respond to my email, yet alone review it and provide sound feedback in a very short turn around time. I also wanted a fresh set of eyes reviewing Decker's tests. The results were sent via email and we did have our vet office copied on the results. The turn around time for both Decker's initial testing and eight week re-check were around two business days.

stylynjm 06-27-2013 12:53 PM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
Hi Momofdecker,
Thank you. Yes, I agree and will do a full thyroid panel with a tsh. It just makes sense to do these things before changing insulin. I can get my New regular vet to do the draw and then have it evaluated.
As you know, Sissy's numbers are all over the place. If she would feel better, be healthier, and need less insulin, what could be better.:D
I will do these things in July and go from there.Interested in results.
Also, the internist wants an ultrasound. that will have to wait awhile as it is quite expensive.
I wish I had an endless source of funds for my girl, as we all do. ;)

momofdecker 06-27-2013 01:02 PM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
Here is a shared shutterfly link I created in memory of Decker. If you scroll down to photo journal - you can see June 2012 Full Thyroid panel and Aug 2012 full thyroid panel results from Hemopet. The case specific ranges are what are used taking age and breed into consideration.

http://inmemoryofdecker.shutterfly.com/

stylynjm 06-27-2013 02:08 PM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
Momofdecker,
Thanks, I printed the several pages just to use as guidelines when I have Sissy's done. I saw the case specific. Also, gives me Dr. Dodds info thanks:)


Jackie

momofdecker 06-28-2013 07:26 AM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
I'm not sure what food you are considering changing to, but in one of the email exchanges I had with Dr. Dodds, we discussed food. Decker's cholesterol had been >520mg (off the charts high) on his Dec. 2011 & Feb. 2012 CBC's. She recommended to not feed him any diet that contained wheat, corn or soy as she felt his liver could not handle glutens due to the high cholesterol value. Foods she recommended were: Wellness CORE Reduced Fat or Wellness Healthy Weight, or a Light formula of Taste of the Wild, Merrick, or Blue Buffalo. We went with Wellness Core RF and it worked well for him. My non-diabetic boy ate it for about a year but just a couple of weeks ago started turning his nose up at it. Not sure why but he started eating again when we switched back to his old food.

You mentioned Sissy's cholesterol was elevated. Do you use fish oil and vit. E with her at all? Likely will not correct high cholesterol but may help combat it a bit. Both diabetes & hypothyroidism can cause high cholesterol in dogs.

In that photo journal link I shared, you can also see Decker's June testing results along with his Aug. re-check results. One little (I called it magic) thyroid pill dosed twice a day provided amazing results in a short eight week period. In June Decker was in pretty rough shape. By Aug. his values all looked great. From Dec. 2011 - Nov. 2012 he had a total of five CBC's run. Even in his final CBC in Nov. 2012 his values, excluding glucose (because he was in desperate need of inflammation relief), were all good.

momofdecker 06-28-2013 11:08 AM

Re: Sissy's Mom
 
A couple of more things...

Came across this on fb today... From Dr. Dodds' blog - food transitioning recommendations:
http://drjeandoddspethealthresource....-transitioning

Also wanted to touch on the TsH - Dr. Dodd's testing recommendation did not include the TsH. Our vet typically runs thyroid panels through MSU and MSU uses the TsH. She'd asked us to add it on. We'd spent six months working towards a partnership relationship with her, had many ups and downs, and were finally making some progress for the better. For me, that 20.00 extra cost was well worth the effort to keep that partnership relationship moving forward.

If you are looking to save some costs it may not be something you have to have tested. Obviously in Decker's case it did help support his diagnosis, however, I think his case was also strong enough that even without the TsH reading he would have easily been diagnosed.


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