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-   -   Jesse girl (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2001)

jesse girl 07-10-2010 10:37 AM

Re: any thoughts in improving these numbers
 
Thanks for the reply's it definitely gives me more confidence I gave her a little more insulin and change her food time to 2 hours from shot it did eliminate the spike and kept her pretty flat but in the low range I gave her a 1 quarter cup of frozen beef heart at shot time to maybe eliminate that drop at the end of her cycle and be able to take for a walk she ended up in the mid 200s at 6:00 am from 174 at 4:00 am not sure if that was a fluke but will try again with a little less beef heart .good walking numbers went for an hour and came back at 146 . Ime going to drop her insulin down a bit and move her shot time 15 minutes forward it seems her shot time is starting a little earlier than the 1.5 hours that I believed it started working maybe that long walk before her shot can start things a little faster so that will be 2 hours and 15 minutes between shot and food pretty amazing but then again by lowering her dose I may not need to adjust her time I guess I can flip a coin . actually this isn't a bad thing if she threw up or her numbers fluctuated I can adjust her shot I dont no if she will remain this way or get to a more normal pattern we will work with what we got and she seems happy and healthy I probably wont add any digestive enzymes now it taken a while to get this point . thinking the whole time it was rebound and it was not just poor interaction between food and insulin . I am sure jesse isnt the only one like this out there so if you are seeing the same pattern your dog may be in the same situation. Its not to difficult to figure out. thanks every one

jesse girl 07-11-2010 09:55 AM

why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
Well things are getting pretty strange we were at 5.5 units twice a day and she started going low so I cut the dose by half a unit to 5 same result same numbers going straight down. 4 hours after her meal 2 hours after her shot so I cut her dose to 4 units same result same number getting into the 70s and I must intervene with some syrup. she was 269 fasting numbers gave pancake night before went for 45 minute walk and came back gave her shot and she was 146 left to go for a drive came back an hour later and 149 this is 3 hours after her meal with no interaction of insulin yet .She has gotten extremely healthier in the last couple weeks is her body producing insulin sporadically . she used to get seizures once and awhile and i attributed it to epilepsy but after researching a bit some hunting dogs go hypoglycemic is a decease in hunting dogs and my doggie is a beagle since she has been diabetic she hasnt had anymore seizures maybe related I dont know. Say if you gave yourself insulin and you did not need it would you go straight down or would your body compensate . ive given he quite a bit of syrup its definitely to much insulin. The predominant way of thinking if a doggie is diabetic thats it the pancreas doesnt produce any insulin I only heard one example of this not being true is when a dog has a pancreatitis sometimes on rare occasions the pancreas is jarred back into producing insulin my dog did have pancreatitis I guess ill drop her a hole unit to 3 sleep is becoming a premium I know this is a unusual case if anyone has seen something similar id appreciate the advise

CraigM 07-11-2010 11:16 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
Any other changes? Different food, or quantity? Reduced weight?

jesse girl 07-11-2010 11:52 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigM (Post 31557)
Any other changes? Different food, or quantity? Reduced weight?

everything the same gave her half a waffle finally kicked in after 1.5 hour shes up to 149 in the past this sugar and food intervention would blow her up when she was first diagnosed the vet said she did not seem to be a true diabetic he never explained what he meant. Its really strange to drop her dose so much with same numbers on the downside giving sugar when she drops below 100 she go up 30 p0int and then come back down after a half hour ime thinking of cutting her dose to 3 unit maybe 2.5 why do some dogs seem to need so little insulin and some dont I know some can be resistant but such small amounts with all that food you would think there is some production of insulin going on and if so I think this makes things more complicated because how would you dose for that I give her shot 2.5 hours after her meal because her numbers stay low and it seems like the food isnt kicking in for 3.5 hours or maybe there is insulin working the whole time secreted from her body. she has been very difficult to regulate and just lately we have been getting better numbers. It is definitely to much insulin this we know why is the question. This is probably why its been so difficult. I have used r insulin in the past when she had high numbers you could gve her a half a unit or less she would drop 200 points and stay flat at that number four hours.

Patty 07-11-2010 06:22 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
I merged your threads together so we can keep all of Jesse's information in one place. Makes it easier to go back and look at her history.

I wonder if Jesse is honeymooning. This can happen if not all of the beta cells have been destroyed yet. Often it won't last. But for a time earlier in diagnosis the body can start producing insulin on its own and thus need less injected insulin.

It's also possible to have overlap of insulin build up and it can take a few days on a significantly lower dose to rid the body of the excess insulin.

I know Joan had recommended the digestive enzymes as a help in getting the food into Jesse's system faster as well in the first few hours. I would consider trying this.

Quote:

Say if you gave yourself insulin and you did not need it would you go straight down or would your body compensate
Your body systems would try to compensate but injecting insulin into a nondiabetic is a life threatening situation. The overdose of insulin would pull all of the glucose from the bloodstream starving the cells/brain and could result in seizures and coma or cell death. Which is why hypoglycemia is so dangerous.

See if you can find a dose that avoids any and all lows and stick with that for a couple of days to see what kind of curve you then get.

Keep us posted,
Patty

Joan 07-11-2010 07:36 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
If you think Jesse is doing well with less and less insulin, then it is quite possible she is still actually producing some insulin. As Patty said, it can be difficult to distinguish from a bit of an overdose, for a few days. If you keep decreasing the insulin, and her numbers are good, then I would try small frequent meals with no insulin and see if she can handle that without insulin for the time being. If she gets too high and wont come down on her own, then you will know she definitely needs insulin, just a matter of how much.

My pugs did this for several months, and you just have to be reactive, and it is difficult, and you wont be getting many good nights sleep. But in my opinion, by decreasing the insulin, and monitoring as you go, is the only way to tell for sure.

You are doing well, and Jesse is lucky to have you.

jesse girl 07-11-2010 09:42 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
joan and patty great advise shes dropping pretty good on 2units not as bad as 4 but she did start the cycle a little hire its 4.5 hours after she ate sugar must be getting into her system you would think but I dont see any interaction with food at this dose but who knows for sure jesse not talking the thing I noticed shes been going down early . it maybe an hour or less when the shot was given it used to be 1.5 hours give or take or maybe her body may be producing and knocking it down before the shot . shes at 140 from 240 1.5 hours ago I dont think I slept much this week . I lowered the dose alot no problem Ill be able to sleep and then check her numbers and say oh well who needs sleep.

jesse girl 07-11-2010 09:54 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
Ive seen her fist rise after her shot and food 4.5 hours after eating she went from 140 to 154 Ime not sure if the food will overwhelm this dose we shall see but sleep may be a possibility. It just maybe a slow process for sugar to get into the system she poops on a regular basis so every thing is working so we will see how it ends up.

Joan 07-12-2010 06:14 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
Those numbers are so interesting, a rise of 14 is negligible. Someday when you have time you should test yourself 4 or 5 times throughout the day, and you will find more variance than that in a non-diabetic.

Hope you are able to sleep, been there, done that.

Hugs Joan

jesse girl 07-12-2010 08:55 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
 
thanks joan for your response It gets more interesting but I have to go to work my kids will keep an eye on her today well keep you in suspense for awhile have a great day


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