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-   -   Jesse girl (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2001)

Ladybug 07-19-2010 06:18 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
I've been following your post with great interest.


As Natalie posted: Unfortunately, it is hard to make predictions when a regimen is changing all the time. The best advice I can give is to find something you can stick with for a minimum of five days, test and observe, and then look at the data you have collected for that entire time to see what kinds of trends you come up with.

Every dog is different. Plus it is normal for blood sugar to vary some day to day. You can't control those variables but you can control variables of food, insulin, and exercise.
Consistency is the key word...doing the same thing at the same time every day.

I was starting to get obsessed with Ladybug's numbers. I was testing 4-6 times a day or more trying to attain that pefect number that my vet wanted her to be at - between 160-180 every day. We now know those numbers are not feasible on a daily basis.

At the suggestion of Natalie, I stayed with 5-1/4 units of NPH insulin at 6AM and 6PM instead of increasing/decreasing her insulin amount every day depending on her bg readings. Ladybug has been at that dose since June 11th. The only time that I may change her dose is when she goes too low, which she is famous for right before her dinner time shot. Then I may decrease 1/4 or 1/2 unit but then there are times when I can bring her up with a little extra food and not decrease her insulin at all.

There are also days when she decides to go "fly a kite" and soar into the upper 200's to mid-300's. I don't increase her insulin just because she's high, we just get more exercise on that day.

She gets fed at 6AM and 6PM. She gets her injection at the time of feeding, when she's licking her bowl clean. We walk every monring around 8AM for 20-25 minutes, depending on the weather. We were walking at 7AM, but Patty helped me to change my mind about going that soon after food/injection. We don't go for a vigorous walk, just a normal "sniff everything in sight to see who else has been here" type of walk. We have a play time around 4PM that lasts about 1/2 hour. Plus she goes out in the yard several times during the day - she may just stand and look around or she may decide that it's time to chase squirrels!

I know the road to regulation is long....Ladybug started on Vetsulin in October 2008 and was fine until she became "unregulated" in December 2009 due to the fault of the Vetsulin manufacturer. She started on Humulin NPH in mid-January 2010. I didn't get successful at home testing until the following month. But now, after six long months, I can finally say that she is regulated again.

Linda/Ladybug :)

jesse girl 07-19-2010 11:04 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
thanks natalie and lady bug had tremendous numbers for a few days between 130 and 150 for at least 9 hours of a 12 hour cycle they would not move then on that 3rd day it becomes to much so ill keep the same program i have had good results ill cut the dose. its funny every time i cut the dose stay there for a bit get high numbers slowly raise back up and stay there with good numbers it becomes to much . well we will keep the same program lower the dose and keep trying we know we have had some success shes either in great numbers in the 100s or bad in the 300s no middle ground I think I can count on 1 hand that she was in the 200s for a day as they say feast or famine . thanks for your support we will keep doing are best

jesse girl 09-26-2010 08:57 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
Well its been awhile since I have posted jesse is doing good her numbers have been good lately mostly in the 100s for most of the time . I feed her at 6 am and pm 3 quarter cup of blue buffalo wheight control and a half a quarter cup of beef heart raw with char kale and bokchoy.as far as he insulin I give her half a unit of n at 6 am and pm and 3 units of n at 8 am she goes for a free walk no leash at 6:15 to 7 am and pm and goes for a drive for a half hour. being on the leash drives her numbers down so we dont like to do that . she is definately a mountain curve . I think she does produce some insulin and as time went by and she got healtheir she needed less insulin to where we are at now at 3.5 units total twice a day with 4 shots given it has been a battle alot of time shots and testing giving her one shot at mealtime would not work a full shot would drive her down to low and a smaller shot would not be enough so this is what works wright now . she always had a pattern where she spiked 4.5 hous after mealtime we all thought it was rebound but it apeears food and insulin wernt working well together and by creating this type aof regiment it seems to work. I would like to just give her one shot at meal time but that never worked. I would use r insulin to bring her out of 300s and back into the 100s and she would stay ther for 5 hours or so she would only need a quarter unit to drop her this much exercise can only be given after her meal at the end of the cycle of her last shot she will drop like a rock at any other time. I think she had to get used to being at lower ranges and steep drops and rises were definately hard on her. thanks everyone for giving me a direction to go and an understandig of how this desease works in dogs. my jesse might be an exception but I felt me and jesse put alot of time and sleepless nights to get where we are today we can never go back to the way things used to be and whose to say that was better she eats better more walks more attention and for me i eat better and get more exercise which I lost alot of wheight and I feel much better. If anyone has any questions and your dogie has the same pattern as jesse I may be able to give back anything I have learned if I was working full time I may have not figured this out . Once again thanks everyone.enjoy and love your animals and it is worth giving all you got to keep them happy and healthy.

k9diabetes 09-27-2010 02:16 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
It's great to hear that Jesse is doing so well! :)

I had to laugh when you said that Jesse's blood sugar drops too fast when she walks on a leash. I swear some dogs just aren't naturally meant to leash walk even if you spend hours and hours and hours and hours training them (are you listening border collie Jack?)!! Not that they can't do it but it's by no means a natural function. LOL

We were similarly fortunate that I had a flexible schedule. Without that, we couldn't have done the regimen that worked best for Chris and would have had to settle for much poorer blood sugar.

You build a really special bond with a diabetic dog and get to know them so well - it's one of the few gifts but it's a big gift.


jesse girl 09-28-2010 09:26 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
Yes natalie there are so many things to consider with a diabetic dog . she will wobble with higher numbers at times but usually at the end of the cycle so she is not in higher numbers all day . I have seen her drop 50 points just from chewing on a bone so we must be careful with exercise while the insulin is in effect . once again thanks for your support

jesse girl 01-05-2011 04:40 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
Well I want to give an update on jesse its been tough to regulate jesse it takes multiple shot combinations to keep her in good numbers which is tough during the day during working hours no problem at night so I got and idea from you guys that you could give insulin without food so I thought maybe I could feed her one full meal at night and nothing during the day and the results were amazing. I feed her at 5 pm gave her a combination of 3 shots at 5pm 8 pm and 1 am that gets us through the night with numbers between 120 and 280 sometimes higher sometimes lower then at 7am I give her a shot it can be from a half unit to 1 unit for the day period with no food and her numbers are in normal range all day. .I do use r insulin if she is high and my 1 am shot is 1 unit of r which gets her in the 100s for the day cycle. her shots at 5pm is 2 units 8 pm 4 units and 1 am 1 unit of r this will fluctuate depending on her numbers and r insulin will be suplimented into the routine if she is running high we have done alot of testing no vet help too complicated and to much time evolved for vet to be much help. she is happy and energetic wants food during the day sometimes i will give her a very small treat which does not affect her numbers . shes not perfect but she is in normal numbers 16 hours of the day most of the time just reading the posts can give so many ideas they are endless so never give up. thanks to everyone

k9diabetes 01-05-2011 10:44 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
What an interesting regimen!

I'm glad you were adventurous enough to try insulin with no food as it is sometimes the only way to get insulin into a dog who just won't eat in the morning.

I wonder what it is about dogs and breakfast... I don't think I've ever seen a dog who won't eat dinner. It's always morning that they refuse when they refuse.

I hope that eventually vets will get more comfortable with giving insulin without food when their clients are meticulous home testers who can analyze a problem and carefully experiment. Naturally it's not something everyone can or even should do, but it's a very viable option for people who can be patient and reason things out.

Congratulations to you and Jesse on your creative solution! :)


jesse girl 01-06-2011 08:56 AM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
thanks Natalie you were on the cutting edge for routines out of the mainstream which can be difficult under a vets care not willing to experiment and really dont have the time for such detailed testing. Your success was my inspiration to not give up and try different alternatives as others on this site seem to be doing with difficult doggies to regulate. I agree with you you must be careful early on she would get pretty low from very small amounts of insulin so extreme testing is a must at the beginning and should be done in most routines if you able I know it was difficult to test at the start but now its a peace of cake. she still has her battles with high numbers at times and I may never know why (lots of theories) but at least for now and always subject to change as you know in good numbers for most of the day

Patty 01-06-2011 12:09 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
So glad you were able to test and experiment with what works for Jesse!

jesse girl 01-06-2011 01:46 PM

Re: why does jesse need less and less insulin all of a suden
thanks patty I appreciate everyones tireless efforts on this forum to give there insight and experience to help others who really need it. there is more information on this forum because of the amount of effort put into it from everyone including long established members to brand new all can contribute and get a consensus on treating this disease and the complications that goes along with it Jesse has epilepsy too she is on rescue remedy and she may have a few seizures a year but you dont know if it is do to a hypo event unless you test or just give sugar to be safe so that can make it very hard . for either one of those deceases 10 years ago a vet would suggest to put the dog asleep for either one of those diseases she also had acute pancreatitis so she has had along road since easter. Ime not sure how long she wants to stay. In the end its not my decision all I can do is give 100 percent effort to her and make sure her life is enjoyable for a beagle that includes sniffing and chasing rabbits . so today she is doing good I dont know about tomorrow I no I have to be flexible and open minded and we will live are lives together for as long as we are allowed.

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