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alleng8304 07-02-2018 09:33 AM

Cannot Get Ollie under Control
I am new to this forum. My Norfork Terrier, a rescue dog, is about 9 years old. In January, He was diagnosed with Diabetes and Cushings disease. He weighs 16 pounds and we started him on 4 units of Vetsulin once daily. (January) We titrated him up to 15 units daily until we got some Somogyi effect. He is also no Denamarin for elevated Liver enzymes and Trilosane 7.5 mg daily. I do occasional bld sticks but mostly use Jorvet Urine strips. About a month ago we came up too quickly and too high on Trilosane and I honestly believe we threw him into Addison's.We almost lost him. That has now been resolved.

He eats 3 small meals a day with broiled chicken and white rice , and some Nutra Senior dog food. eats at 10 am, 5pm and 10 pm. I have now switched to twice daily insulin of 6 units in Am and 3 units 10 hours apart with food. Total of 9 units per day. He is starting to get cataracts in both eyes (so much for Ocu-glow) and hair is thinning. His blood sugar by Urine dipstick is done 3x per day. It usually runs about 100 each Am and slowly climbs up during course of the day. It may even spike up to 500 occasionally. Merck, makers of Vetsulin says that insulin levels will wax and wain (??) Yesterday, different scenario. Urine glucose in am was 100 10 am 150 at 3pm and negative at 6pm and 10 pm.??? I decided to do a bld stick and that was 212.(10 pm) Can the Urine test strips be that inaccurate? He has no clinical signs except hair loss and cataract forming. He is drinking less water. Perhaps a ACTH stim may be able to tell me where his Cusings is. If I can get that under control, Perhaps his need for insulin will go down

What am I missing here?? Thank you

MikeMurphy 07-02-2018 12:24 PM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control
Hi and welcome to you and Ollie.

The normal Vetsulin starting dose for a 16 pound dog would be 3 units, twice daily. The normal protocol to follow is to let the insulin settle in for 5 to 7 days, do a 12 hour curve, evaluate the curve and if necessary increase insulin by .5 units, keep repeating this process until you get to a low BG reading around 150. The goal is to get Ollie’s BG readings between 150 and 250 for most of the day.

Most of us here feed our dogs every 12 hours, followed by insulin. Is it possible to feed him every 12 hours and have the same insulin dose every 12 hours?

Blood glucose meters are far more accurate than urine strips. What type of meter are you using?

Even with him having Cushings, his insulin appears to be working. Hopefully some of our members who also have Cushings dogs will chime in, but Cushings can be misdiagnosed in our diabetic dogs, since a lot of the symptoms are the same.

Raysaint 07-02-2018 01:56 PM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control
It's usually hard to regulate blood sugar with 2 different insulin doses. The body gets confused and can't settle in to a steady insulin pattern. Consistency is important.

Tried it with my dog, feeding 2 different size meal portions at breakfast and dinner, with 2 different doses. Didn't work, numbers were erratic.

Urine strips only measure sugar in urine, which is not an accurate indication of blood sugar. It's a broader range. Blood sugar measurements need to be more specific in order to see what pattern is happening, and especially to check the low point in the 12 hour period.

Daisydog10 07-02-2018 02:24 PM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control

Raysaint and Mike are correct, blood glucose monitoring is much more accurate than the urine strips and a 12 hour feeding and dosage schedule may be very helpful in regulation.

One problem may be the white rice, it tends to spike blood sugar much quicker than brown rice, quinoa, chickpeas, etc. Weighing out or measuring each meal ingredient is also helpful, that way each meal is consistent as well.

jesse girl 07-02-2018 04:00 PM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control
Its always a good idea to sign up on our sister site K9 cushings and talk to them about your dogs diagnosis

You can receive a false positive for cushing with an unregulated diabetic dog so we here on the forum take a double diagnosis of both diseases at the same time with a grain of salt

alleng8304 07-02-2018 06:25 PM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control
Thanks to all for comments. So should I start over with 3 units of insulin q12 . Do not use white rice but dog food and how often to take blood glucose. Twice a day seems cruel and painful. Thanks

alleng8304 07-02-2018 06:45 PM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control
How often do you do blood monitoring and does your pup have cataracts after years od diabetes

alleng8304 07-02-2018 06:47 PM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control
is NPH give you better control than Vetsulin? How often do you do blood monitoring?

jesse girl 07-02-2018 09:35 PM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control
I test jesse before every dose of insulin . I test her on the inner lip above the canine tooth for over 8 years . Maybe 10,000 tests or more . I heard a similar thought from jesses original vet thinking it was cruel for testing her the way i was doing and i thought thats odd because the discomfort from uncontrolled diabetes is not pleasant

Come to find out dogs are very tolerant of pokes and pricks . They are not human even though we may think of them that way . Jesse gives me a lick after just about every test i do on her inner lip . Same with her shots no big deal

Life just changes to a new normal . Dogs can still have a very enjoyable dogs life with some limitations

Scooterspal 07-03-2018 03:23 AM

Re: Cannot Get Ollie under Control
I know you have other issues do deal with but if cataracts are in the early phase you might want to consider eye drops. They can help control/slow their development into full blown stage and blindness.

Google Lanomax.

I'd also consider providing eye related nutrients on a daily basis. I use spreadable sharp cheddar cheese to hide them in. Scooter cannot resist : )

Check my signature for what I'm using.

Good luck!

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