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-   -   Jenny Diabetic & Cushings Poodle is an Angel... (http://k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2804)

CarolW 06-15-2011 03:30 AM

Re: Diabetic Veterinary Diets: Which Do/Have You Used?
 
Hi Judi,

I hope you will WAIT to raise Jenny's dose, till after you get a monitoring kit and learn to test Jenny's BG levels yourself.

That curve the vet did doesn't appear to have readings close enough together - nor overnight - to warrant a raise of insulin dose from three to a whopping four units of insulin- all at once!

Among vets who really specialize in canine diabetes, the word is, to start low, and go slow, which means, when they are approaching the correct insulin dose for the dog, they will likely raise the dose by QUARTER-UNITS, NOT by a whopping whole unit - which can just as easily shoot past the correct dose, and risk serious hypoglycemia.

We have lots of dogs on the forum whose vets have raised doses that fast - then the dogs have suffered low readings, and it takes a week or so for the dog to get back on track, after the dose is LOWERED instead of raised.

It's the middle of the night here, and I need to go back to bed, and I still don't have that link on Somogyi rebound, but I strongly suspect it as a possibility; not saying Jenny is necessarily in rebound.

She should, though, at least be safe (I hope), if you hold the dose steady at three units for now, till you can get a meter and test strips, and test Jenny by doing a full curve, yourself.

I just HATE raining on the parade of such a new member as you! But I'm deeply concerned about Jenny's safety. It won't hurt her to run those higher BGs for a few days.

Hope you'll be back soon, so you can ask for more help!

Camellia sends her regards to you and Jenny, and so do I.

Wed, 15 Jun 2011 03:30:15 (PDT)

Patty 06-15-2011 06:17 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
I don't have a lot of time to reply this morning but wanted to say welcome! I do agree with Carol in that I would not raise her insulin before having a full curve done. You can only raise insulin based on the lowest level of the day and a full unit in a small dog can have a large impact.

I'll try to get back here later today and read up some more on Jenny.
Take care, :)
Patty

Judi 06-16-2011 05:25 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
thank you all for cleaning up my thread and the excellent information.

We did raise her insulin to 4 units per dose as her vet suggested since she has had 3 glucose curves at the vet over the last 4 weeks with no change whatsoever. I just got back and am going to scan the blood glucose monitoring threads today so I can go buy a tester and get started. My husband really doesn't want us to do this because it seems like we are poking and prodding her all the time. But we need to know what we are dealing with to get her insulin right. I hope I can find a place to get a good blood sample without too much pain.

We did leave the full syringe out while she ate so it was a little warmer when we injected.

I'm so glad I found this forum and thanks Pat for the information on the high protein and the kidneys. I'd noticed the fat content in some of the high protein foods so think we will stick with the W/D right now for consistency.

Patty 06-16-2011 05:43 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
Oh good. I'm glad she's had several curves done thus far. It's really important to based the decision to raise insulin on the lowest blood sugar of the day. Would you happen to have the results of her curves done?

I would use caution as you get closer to approaching the "right" dose in using smaller increments. I've noticed a lot of vets move in full unit changes but you can adjust in 1/4 unit increments even by eyeballing a dose between the 1/2u marks.

Something else to consider if her levels continue to remain high is checking for a urinary tract infection as they are more common in our diabetics. Infections can cause some resistance to insulin.

I think you'll find that once you are able to home test that it will actually benefit Jenny in the long run as she'll feel better when you are able to make changes that keep her blood sugar in better control without having to spend the day at the vet. Have you seen the videos on the various places some people test here? This is the link on testing: http://www.k9diabetes.com/bgtestvideos.html

Keep us posted on how she's doing on her new dose!
Take care,
Patty

CarolW 06-16-2011 06:15 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
Sounds as though you basically have things under good control, Judi. I'd missed the fact that Jenny has already had three curves. I stlll feel concerned about raising the dose so much all at once, but if you can learn to test Jenny's BG levels, you can monitor, for safety.

Do keep syrup handy, and if Jenny shows signs of hypoglycemia (staggering, trembling), rub about a teaspoon of the syrup on her gums, and as soon as she can swallow safely, feed her a high-protein, high-carbohydrate treat.

Testing on the lip is painless, because there are so few nerve-endings there. I used Kumbi's lip - was amazed - he really felt NO PAIN at all!

Yell when you want some assistance with testing! And keep up the good work!

Regards to you and Jenny, from Kwali and Kumbi at the Bridge, and Camellia and me on Earth.

Thu, 16 Jun 2011 06:14:17 (PDT)

Judi 06-16-2011 08:16 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
thanks again Patty and Carol. I did watch the videos. What good dogs! Carol I just saw some of your posts about syringes with the half unit markings since I just got in 100 that don't have that! argh.

My vet just faxed me her blood curve info. For some reason I'm missing a date and am not pushing him yet since he thinks I'm nuts.

January 2011 not diabetic yet: 110

5/17/2011 diagnosed at 496 started on 1 unit twice a day

5/24/2011
insulin of 1 unit given at 6:15 am
8:30 415
10:30 530
1:30 542
3:30 423
4:45 470

increased to 1 1/2 units twice a day

5/31/2011 did blood glucose curve at vets, I didn't get #;s but no change
increased to 3 units twice a day

6/14/2011

3 units of insulin given at 6:05 am

8:00 575
10:00 650
12:00 572
3:00 620

I have been feeding her a variety of different foods so that has not helped. She has a liver problem and takes hormones for incontinence. Right now she is not taking her liver medicine. The vet said we can retest all of that wants we get her sugan in line. The Vet doesn't think the hormone she takes is as detrimental to her diabetes as the natural hormones she would be producing if she had not been spayed would be.

This week the goal is the W/D at every meal. We are now at 4 units twice a day, and we are going to play it by ear whether she goes to the vet after 1 week or 2 for her next session there. Hopefully within the next day or so I will have my own monitor and can test her myself.

jesse girl 06-16-2011 08:41 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
home testing will make a huge difference

I had the same look from my vet what planet did you come from look It doesn't matter to me i will do whats necessary to keep jesse happy healthy and safe

Patty 06-16-2011 09:07 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
Quote:

She has a liver problem and takes hormones for incontinence. Right now she is not taking her liver medicine. The vet said we can retest all of that wants we get her sugan in line. The Vet doesn't think the hormone she takes is as detrimental to her diabetes as the natural hormones she would be producing if she had not been spayed would be.

Somehow I glossed over the hormone for incontinence even though you'd written it before. How long has she been on this?

Hormones do play a part in blood sugar regulation as they are an intricate role in the endocrine system. We see intact female dogs that develop diabetes while they are in heat and occasionally go into remission when their heat cycle ends or they are spayed.

Perhaps the hormone is creating a bit of resistance to the insulin effect and it will take more to regulate her.

Judi 06-16-2011 09:15 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Patty (Post 48715)
Somehow I glossed over the hormone for incontinence even though you'd written it before. How long has she been on this?

Hormones do play a part in blood sugar regulation as they are an intricate role in the endocrine system. We see intact female dogs that develop diabetes while they are in heat and occasionally go into remission when their heat cycle ends or they are spayed.

Perhaps the hormone is creating a bit of resistance to the insulin effect and it will take more to regulate her.

She's been on it since last fall. She started losing bladder control in her sleep (first time she was sleeping on my husband's pillow! lol). We started at one pill a week and are up to one pill every 4 days. I forget the name of them and I'm at work. Her Doc did remind me that we are treating the whole dog not just one condition.

She is very sensitive to these hormones. Last week I was trying to wait till evening to give her her hormone and at lunch she had had an accident where she slept.

thanks again, Judi

jesse girl 06-16-2011 09:56 AM

Re: Question about protein in diets
 
I can see where patty is going with this and her instincts may be wright and the hormones may be causing this sustained high blood sugar with no dent from insulin in reduction of numbers and it seems to be going higher

treating the whole dog and not one condition may not be an approach I would take in this case

high numbers like this are not sustainable and needs to be lowered as a priority

it may take allot more insulin to break this possible resistance created by the medication if that is what is happening jesses diabetes did begin at the time she was in heat and she also developed pancreatitis the diabetes may have been temporary but the pancreatitis may have made it permanent just a theory

this is where your home testing will help if resistance is broken you may have to reduce dose or a change in the medication could change the numbers quite dramatically


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