Alfie bit another dog today

[diggydog]

Just a quick run through of Alfie's background.

Alfie was nearly 3 when I got him and had never had any socialisation with other dogs. He is terrified of them. I have tried to work on this with him and done really well until about 2 years ago. Alfie was attacked by 3 staffies and is even more scared now of other dogs than he was when I first got him.
I have keep trying to work on this with him but its really difficult and so if there are other dogs around at the park I keep him on a lead.
I can do a really careful introduction with him to another dog, we walk the other dog in front of us for a while the gradually walk closer to the other dog until we are walking beside it and so far it seems to really work for us and after doing this Alfie accepts the other dog with no problem. If another dog comes towards him tho he gets all snarly at it barks and stuff.

We were out walking this morning up the woods and there were a few dogs around so I had him by my side on a lead. A woman with 2 dogs, a wee spaniel and a black lab were walking behind me. Gradually they got closer to us and Alfie was getting really uncomfortable with the dogs. The black lab (big male dog) keep sniffing Alfie like dogs do but it just wouldn't stop so the path split and I spoke to the owner and asked which way she was going. We decided to go down different paths and she said she would put her lab on his lead for a wee while so he didn't follow us and annoy Alfie. She was really quite a nice woman and could see that Alfie was not coping with her dog too well.

5 mins later down the path we were on her dog appeared and for the next 20 mins constantly tried to mount Alfie. I tried to keep walking but it was really difficult with Alfie spinning round on his lead all the time snarling at the dog trying to mount him.
Not really sure if I wasn't quick enough or if the dog managed to get its self in a better position but it ended up on top of Alfie and Alfie spun round and bit it on the neck. He bit the dog twice before the lab backed off and Alfie drew blood both times he bit it.
The woman by this point had caught up with us to get her dog back but she was really upset that Alfie had bit her dog.
She said she was going to report me and Alfie. Alfie is not a bad dog and I think he put up with a lot before it got to the point he bit the dog but I am so worried about whats going to happen now

[bgdavis]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

Who is she going to report you to? If her dog was off-lead, then I can see no reason anybody would blame Alfie for biting a dog, attacking him.

Bonnie and Angel Criss

[CarolW]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

GOSH, Allison! That's just horrible! This woman is NOT taking responsibility for her dog. The Lab was on top of Alfie. What is he to do? And TWENTY MINUTES struggling with this persistent Lab!

Could you tell how deep the bites were? Punctures? Any tears (lacerations)? However bad the bites, the Lab's owner is responsible, not you, and not Alfie, either.

Looks as though the woman let the Lab off the lead - and wasn't in sight? Right? Wasn't there for 20 WHOLE MINUTES? If she WAS there, did she do anything to help? (Was she there?)

Please report back! Alfie is absolutely not to blame here. This, you understand, is my personal opinion. Please keep us informed, because I might have some ideas. If the woman complains to you again, I might, for instance, ask her what the vet said about the bites.

I did that once when Kumbi bit a Lab who wasn't even harassing him, but Kumbi was protecting Kwali. He DID bite the Lab, causing a puncture. The woman phoned me, furious; and I asked her what the vet said. Oh, they didn't even bother taking the dog to the vet. End of THAT conversation!

If you have ANY more trouble with this woman, I want to know about it; maybe could come up with something. But in my view, the woman is completely at fault. I won't blame the Lab; it's natural dog-behavior, but the Lab must be under the owner's control - wasn't, in this instance.

Of course, I don't know what your local laws or bylaws are.

Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:10:27 (PDT)

[Patty]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

Sorry you and Alfie had to go through that, Allison. I agree with the others. It was her dog that was off lead in a public place. And Alfie put up with a lot before putting the lab in his place.

[Soaphie & Sydney's Mom]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

I don't think this was Alfie's issue at all! He was protecting himself and he just finally hit the last straw - he had it - even was enough - and then when the other dog was on top of him? If anything, you should be reporting that dog owner for her irresponsibility and for her dog attacking your dog (and your dog defending itself). Sigh. What's wrong with people???

I hope Alfie has recovered from the trauma of the day. Poor thing.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

Good grief! Why is that these kind of folks who let their dogs run roughshod over yours are always the type to throw a fit when their dogs get into trouble!

She should consider herself lucky that her dog ran into a dog the size of Alfie and not a poorly socialized and aggressive pit bull like the ones that injured Tami's Sydney rather badly.

Did she actually take any information by which to report you or just threw out nasty threats? Is there a leash requirement where this occurred?

If she took any information, then I sure hope you have her identity as well.

Natalie

[CarolW]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

I'm usually really slow on the uptake - it occurred to me that likely, this woman threatened to report you as a distraction from any effort you might make to report HER. But to whom?

Much depends on local bylaws, on what sort of animal-control is in place, if any.

Some people are very good at threatening others, to avoid taking consequences for their own behaviors.

Allison - I hope you're not too worried about Alfie biting another dog. The provocation was HUGE - Alfie really had no choice but to defend himself.

For him to go that long before biting demonstrated the immensity of his self-control.

Please give Alfie very extra hugs, licks and wags, from Kwali and Kumbi at the Bridge, and Camellia and me here on Earth, if across the pond.

And very extra special love to you, Allison.

Mon, 4 Apr 2011 21:36:19 (PDT)

[diggydog]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

OK well I am much less worried after a good nights sleeps.
The woman knows who my vet is and I told her they all know Alfie so will be able to provide her with any details she needs to report me.
I know she is with the same vet as I am and know both her dogs names so it would be easy enough to find out her details.
She would have had to take the dog to the vet yesterday as one of the bites was pretty bad and really bleeding a lot so I can if need be find out who she is.

I am not totally clued up on the dog laws in a case like this to be honest, there are no leash requirements tho but were are subject to a dog control order stating that we must have our dogs under control at all times either on or off leash so I guess in that respect she is at fault but as Alfie is not good with other dogs and I am aware of that then it might be they would expect me to have him muzzled. Not sure cos he has never bitten another dog before.
I am meeting with the local dog warden on thursday to have a chat about it all.

The worst part of it all is that its a huge setback for Alfie in terms of his behaviour with other dogs. We had finally gotten to a place where he could see another dog and not instantly react to it and we could walk past another dog with a bit of space between dogs and he was ok with that.
I had him out this morning and he was a lunatic on his lead, growling and barking at dogs miles away - its not fun for either of us to go walking when he is like this - he is getting so worked up its messing with his bg's as well. It doesn't rain but it pours

[CarolW]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

Hey Allison!

YOU initiated the chat with the dog warden? I'm guessing so. Good idea, if you did!

Glad you have a way to identify the woman, if need be.

Sorry one of the bites caused a lot of bleeding, but I expect the Lab will be fine; depends on bite location, I guess.

Your animal bylaws sound quite a lot like ours; I haven't checked lately; they might have changed. Since Alfie had never bitten another dog before, I'd think he wouldn't be required to be muzzled; he's not of one of those breeds that bylaws typically specify for muzzling.

Anyway, our leash-laws, in my area, allow voice control to substitute for a leash - or used to. I should check and find out if anything has changed.

My sympathies about Alfie's setback. That is to be expected. It will take time for Alfie to recover from that experience, but he likely will.

My Camellia responds similarly to the sight of other dogs. I've had her now about 7.5 months, and she is now responding with slightly less intensity than she did.

I'll be here watching for your next report. Hope Alfie DOES settle down in time! SO sorry this happened!

Hugs,
Tue, 5 Apr 2011 04:51:33 (PDT)

[Margaret Boyle]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

Allison,

You are in the right here...... Alfie was on the lead and the other dog was annoying him he was only doing what any other dog would do that is able to stand up for itself.

So I certainly would not worry........the dog followed you's.

Hugs

Margaret

[diggydog]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

Thanks Margaret - its been a terrible week with Skye and her antics last week and now this with Alfie!

Carol - your like a cheerleader over the water for Alfie and I!!!
I do an obedience class with my friends dog Roxy the boxer, this is a long story but I will try to shorten it a bit. I do agility with Skye but some days she is not interested in doing it so rather than force her to do it I decided it was worth taking Roxy, my friends dog as I had paid for the classes and was only doing about half of them. Its turned out that Roxy LOVES agility and is actually totally amazing at it and I plan on competing with her in agility. I felt that as she wasn't my dog we needed to spend more time together and also work on her general obedience a touch so we started a class last week which is run by 2 people one is the dog warden.
I called him the day after all that happened with Alfie as I will be seeing him for training tomorrow night anyway but he said to go along about an hour early and we can talk through what happened and where I stand with it all. He is also going to see if he can help out with Alfie's dog issues.
He is a great dog trainer - used to train the military dogs. Its all about positive training and happy owners = happy dogs. I couldn't wish for a better class to have joined!

[Dollydog]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

Hi Allison....I've never posted to you before (that I can remember) and just have a little time right now.
I don't know the laws where you live but am an expert in this subject after owning a dog aggressive Aussie Terrier for 13 years.

THAT woman was TOTALLY in the wrong, and you and Alfie were extremely patient to tolerate the other dog's behavior for as long as you did. I think you said that the other dog was a lab....will read that over later.

Muzzling Alfie on walks when there are such useless dog owners out there will be very dangerous for him.....he needs to be able to protect himself. Thank goodness the other dog backed down when he got bit.

Sometime I want to read through all of Alfie's story....he is such a little doll but then I am very partial to terriers.
Thanks for listening to my rant....hugs for Alfie.
Jo-Ann & my Dollydog angel

[diggydog]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

Hi Jo-Ann,

Thanks for taking the time to rant - I love a good rant so feel free whenever you want!
I am very partial to a terrier as well - Since I was little its all I have ever owned and I dont think I would have anything else now. Love the terrier nature and temperament and I love the look of a terrier! Yeah so I get the feeling I love terriers!!!

Alfie is a very sweet boy who actually would let me do anything to him but with other dogs its a whole other story. I call him my house angel, street devil!

His dog aggression is something I manage as best I can but know that realistically he is never going be best friends with every dog he meets. I am taking him to see a dog trainer next week tho as since the lab thing happened his behaviour is much worse than it ever has been and walks are nothing but stressful for him and he used to love his walks but he is on hyper alert at all times we are out now. He still enjoys a good tummy rub in the house tho so its not all bad

[CarolW]

Re: Alfie bit another dog today

It will take Alfie time to recover from this particular set-back; but I believe he WILL, in time, feel better. Mostly because you are so attentive and sensitive to his very real needs.

Love and hugs, licks and wags, from Kwali and Kumbi at the Bridge, and Camellia and me here on Earth!

Fri, 8 Apr 2011 06:02:30 (PDT)