My best Pal, Coke

[Reddogg]

Hello all I would like to Introduce My beautiful Pup of 10 years Coco and myself.
Coco got her blood results back on 7/25/17 and had a level of 400 so the vet told me she had diabetes and needed to start on insulin asap so I went to Walmart that night after the prescription was ready and picked up the insulin (Novolin N) and syringes to start the treatment 7/26/17 @ 5am
Coco is a Lab mix weighing 84 lbs which is 11 lbs lighter than last week she has never been fat looking and always very active
On 7/21 I noticed she was having a hard time standing once up she seemed to move around pretty good like trotting proudly back to the house after a good poop in the yard so I didn't really get too concerned but took her to the vet the next day and was told they needed to do blood work on her so of course 3 days later I got the call she had diabetes of which Her glucose level was @ 400
Now I love this Pup and am devastated and am willing to do whatever it takes to get her regulated on this disease at all costs Anyway I started Her on 11 units twice a day of the Novolin N with an appointment in one week back @ the Vet I have since ordered an Alpha Trak2 to be here the day before my appointment First question is as a practice is it normal to wait a whole week before testing for the curve or the follow up appointment ?
2nd Question is could the diabetes start what appears to be arthritis in her legs She is still having a time of getting up she can do it by herself but it pains me to see her this way since a week ago she was fine and overnight she is having this problem the Vet prescribed Her Carprofin 75 mg to manage the pain I figure within a week I hope to see improvement in her moving about
3rd question Is it normal for Her to sleep a lot starting out on this insulin ? She slowed down a bunch on the water and peeing and is eating two weighed meals consisting 2 cups of Signature dry food with a 1/2 cup of chopped boiled chicken She gets her Meal / Insulin /Pill @ 5am and again @ 5pm
Sorry for all the Questions but I can.t seem to find anything relating legs to diabetes on the net and since I found This community I have learned a lot since last night but am kinda frantic right now wondering if I,m doing this right
Thanks for listening
Dogg !!

[Raysaint]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

It generally takes a week for a dog's body to adjust to an insulin dosage. The process is usually, dose for a week, curve, adjust dose, another curve in a week, over and over. Be methodical, don't try to adjust insulin dose on a daily basis to correct sugar levels. Regulation takes time and rushing makes it worse. It can take months, but that's OK, lots of things going on in her body.

Neuropathy in the legs can happen at first, I believe, so the trouble standing should be temporary and improve as she gets regulated.

High blood sugar does make you sleepy. I'm diabetic and it's probably the same with humans and dogs.

Another thing to discuss with your vet is her diet. Generally you want more fibre, low fat, good carbs to balance the insulin.

[farrwf]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

• Coco got her blood results back on 7/25/17 and had a level of 400 so the vet told me she had diabetes and needed to start on insulin asap so I went to Walmart that night after the prescription was ready and picked up the insulin (Novolin N) and syringes to start the treatment 7/26/17 @ 5am.
  
  Did you get the Walmart brand ReliOn Novolin for $24.88?
  
  
• First question is as a practice is it normal to wait a whole week before testing for the curve or the follow up appointment ?
  
  Yes, it takes several days for the body to adjust to changes in insulin dosage.
  
  
• 2nd Question is could the diabetes start what appears to be arthritis in her legs3rd question Is it normal for Her to sleep a lot starting out on this insulin ?
  
  It's likely she's experiencing diabetic neuropathy. We see a lot of this in new diabetics, especially Labs. It will probably subside when her blood / glucose #'s normalize.
  
  
• She slowed down a bunch on the water and peeing and is eating two weighed meals consisting 2 cups of Signature dry food with a 1/2 cup of chopped boiled chicken She gets her Meal / Insulin /Pill @ 5am and again @ 5pmDogg
  
  That's an indication the insulin is having an impact and lowering her B / G.

Hello, and welcome to you and Coco!

[Reddogg]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

Thank You so much for the quick replies I have been a wreck since last Friday an it didn't get better on Tuesday when I got the Call from the vet
The Food I'm feeding Her now is Signature Brand Turkey formula
Crude Protein --31.0%(min)
Crude Fat-------18.0% "
Crude Fiber-----6.0% "
Moisture--------10.0% "
Calcium---------1.2% "
Phosphorus-----1.0% "
Omega 6 Fatty Acids-4.0% (min)
Omega 3 Fatty Acids-1.0% (min)
The reason I'm starting with this Food is because it's AAFCO certified low Glycemic
Am I thinking this out correctly or is there something better I should Try ?
My Pup has always been a spoiled Girl with various treats now I have no idea what to give here
Just as giving Her a pill she always got it in a small piece of cheese
Now I'm doing it the old fashioned way---Dropping it on the back of her tongue because I'm deathly afraid of giving her the wrong thing
This is only my 2nd day and I know I have a lifetime of learning to do but let me just say that this Forum is Awesome and I Thank all of You for the reading made available here
Dogg!!

[Reddogg]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

And Yes farrwf my Vet turned me on to that actually she didn't give me much choice Tuesday night I got a call from Walmart setting up a Profile for the Pup and filling The (ReliOn) Novolin N
Thank You Though
Dogg!!

[Raysaint]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

http://www.hillspet.com/en/us/products/pd-canine-wd-dry

A lot of vets recommend this food,in the link above. You don't need to feed this food, but the Average Nutrients shows you an idea of nutrient percentages. And you don't need to match those percentages, it gives you an idea of range.
And remember if comparing foods, you need to do it on a dry matter basis (with moisture removed).
This link has a calculator to input moisture and nutrient percents of foods and it shows you the dry matter basis.

http://fnae.org/dmb.html

[Reddogg]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

Thank You Raysaint I.m not sure where I'll end up going with food yet but on Her next visit (next Wednesday)I'm going to have a chat with the Vet At last discussion with her on the matter of Food she told me that there are lots of good foods for diabetic Pets and we can work into Food changes as we see what Her curves tell us
I am so confused here
At least Pup is taking all this in a lot better than me I just want to make sure I don't even remotely do something to hinder progress
as far as giving her pills is there anything like lunch meat or cheese that I could safely give Her to help Her to down them
I just don't want to overwhelm her as she gets better with shots / different Food /Pills /being pricked with lances and such
Again Thank You
Dogg!!

[MikeMurphy]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

Hi and welcome to the forum.

My Lily also had trouble with her hind legs when first diagnosed. That gradually went away as her blood glucose got closer to being regulated.

Our members are happy to help with your questions

There's some good introductory information on managing your dog's diabetes here...
http://www.k9diabetes.com/

[Reddogg]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

Good to know Mike I hope Coco has the same success as Lilly as Coke has always been such an agile Pup this double whammy all at once is devastating to Her and Myself I have noticed that after only 3 shots so far she is looking a little more chipper as the hours go by (maybe dindin @ 5:00) only a half hr away
Thanks Mike
Dogg!!

[Reddogg]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

Hey Group on another newbie question on giving Her a shot should you always feel a lump under the skin or is that just a more shallow shot Reason I'm asking is the wife told me Coke's morning shot didn't have a lump and she thinks it probably didn't work
I'm figuring it didn't leak out and she made the tent and went in from the base of the tent @ around a 45 degree angle so I'm thinking it's OK
We know better than sticking the needle in like a muscle shot so are we OK
Thanks
Dogg!!

[Reddogg]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

I know I'm a little (Lot) over thinking this but Reading into this 75% of Dogs with Diabetes develop Cataract which in time can or will turn into glaucoma I have read that there are doggy antioxidants for the eyes
Has anyone ever used these ?
Here's a couple of C&P's from Animal Eye Care LLC

Another very important recommendation is that if your diabetic dog is started on a special canine antioxidant vision supplement BEFORE they develop cataracts, blindness can be prevented in many of these dogs

and another

Diabetic dogs can live healthy lives. Unfortunately, a common complication of diabetes in dogs is cataracts (cloudy lenses). In fact, 75% of dogs develop cataracts and blindness in both eyes within 9 months of being diagnosed with diabetes. The cataracts develop very quickly—sometimes overnight! If untreated, the cataracts cause intraocular inflammation called Lens-Induced Uveitis (LIU) that harms the eyes by causing glaucoma (increased intraocular pressure). If the LIU is uncontrolled and glaucoma develops, cataract surgery might not be possible. Glaucoma causes a chronic headache (similar to a migraine). In worst case scenarios, cataracts form rapidly in both eyes, the lens capsules split/rupture, severe LIU occurs resulting in glaucoma and severe painful intraocular inflammation (phacoclastic uveitis), and both eyes need to be surgically removed. This is a tragic outcome, and one to be avoided if possible. Thus, DO NOT WAIT until your dog’s diabetes is controlled, before seeing an ophthalmologist!!

Is this a scare tactic to drum up $$$
or just the extreme worst thing that could happen to the Pup ?
I can't and won't even consider letting my Pup have to deal with that (headachs) (eye removal)

Thanks again
Dogg!!

[jesse girl]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

well there is no proof that anything can prevent cataracts according to the medical community . now that doesnt mean you should not explore possibilities outside the box as there maybe some validity to the comments from people who have tried it .as long as it doesnt do harm it may not be a problem to try but dont expect miracles especially from some flashy claims with nothing to back it up

my jesse has been diabetic for over 7 years and she has kept her sight ( knock on wood ) she is a beagle with good tear production as hound dogs seem to have good tear production so maybe flushing of the eyes maybe helpful but who knows for sure i wish i could give you an answer

[Reddogg]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

well there is no proof that anything can prevent cataracts according to the medical community . now that doesnt mean you should not explore possibilities outside the box as there maybe some validity to the comments from people who have tried it .as long as it doesnt do harm it may not be a problem to try but dont expect miracles especially from some flashy claims with nothing to back it up

my jesse has been diabetic for over 7 years and she has kept her sight ( knock on wood ) she is a beagle with good tear production as hound dogs seem to have good tear production so maybe flushing of the eyes maybe helpful but who knows for sure i wish i could give you an answer

Well being new to this sad disease I'm open to anything that would help Coke so as You say as long as it won't hurt Her I'm game to try something
So glad to hear jesse still has Her sight that always gives some hope
I know exactly what your saying about flashy (false) claims its the New Wave internet posting made up reviews about a product that is totally fake
I myself have been sucked into buying into a product or 2 that sounded to good to be true based on so called customer reviews and You know the rest of that story
Thanks so much for the info I will defiantly post back in the future on what the moistening effect might or might not have
Dogg!!

[CraigM]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

Welcome!

Just wanted to mention that 11 units is a pretty low dosage for an 84 pound pup. Many consider 0.2 units per pound a starting dosage. So, 84 X .2 = 16 units. I see she is scheduled to be rechecked next week, I would expect you will be seeing an insulin increase.

What is her age, and is she spayed?

Craig

[Raysaint]

Re: 2nd day of Insulin

There usually isn't a lump under the skin after injection, but it probably isn't a bad thing, meaning the insulin will still absorb properly.

Those internet quotes you displayed about cataracts, sure sounded like they want your money. Just my opinion. Marketers prey on fear.
I think the medical community shows that certain nutrients (lutein, astaxanthin) have been shown to be helpful for eyes, and those are found in orange vegetables (sweet potato, pumpkin), wild blueberries, spinach and wild salmon.
I cook each of the vegetables up, puree them, and freeze in little Ziploc bowls. I always have at least one thawed and give him a spoonful with every meal. The wild blueberries I give with every meal, because they are full of antioxidants.