Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

[MisterAlan]

Hi guys.


Cloud was diagnosed 4/28 with diabetes mellitus. He seems to have lost use of his hind legs the week end and i called in for a dog visit to his normal vet. There they did a blood work and sent me to the hospital and we found out he had diabetes. As far as his weakness in legs goes they needed more test which i cant afford, to find out whats wrong. I payed for a consult from the surgeon and he evaluated it to be ivdd, infection of disc, or other cause without the scans. I just find it weird if i missed signs of this or was the diabetes that i neglected to see caused his legs to give out or something. He was on prednisone for his chronic skin condition so the doctor assumes the prednisone was holding back his leg and spine pain but might have caused the trigger for his diabetes. Hes home at the moment resting on an orthopedic bed i bought for him. I currently aid him in getting up with a towel under his hind legs and he can move around for 1 min - 2 mins. They put him on Gabapentin 300mg capsules 2 every 8 hours so i believe this is helping with his pain for walking. The first day i had him home his breathing was fine and he slept throughout the night without any problems and seemed alert whenever he was awake. However last night his breathing started to rise and up till now he is breathing a bit harder. He is urinating normally from what i can see 2 times so far since waking up and not alot of water consumption like previously. He seems to be able to get up on his own when hes laying ontop of foam mats i had laid out in the living room however once hes on the tiles or laminate flooring he cant get back up and whines for me to help him up. Sometimes he just whines but doesnt want to move which im assuming he is depressed at how suddenly he cant move anymore like he did ,not even a week ago. He seems to be eating well the first night but now hes starting to not want to eat the food prescribed to him hes eating it decreasing at about 10% each time. Canned hills w/d 2 and 1/2 can a day. Currently i have some questions if anyone can help me out if possible thank you.
1.His eating has never been a problem but my parents spoiled him by giving him table scraps before and he still ate his own food but only after we eat. Is there anyway to make him want to eat a new diet by adding a topping to make him open up to it.
2.My parents have a hard time declining his advances when eating so i was wondering are there certains snacks or a boiled meat we can let him snack on in between his 12 hours meals. Cant give chicken due to his skin allergies.
3.His recent increased in respiratory rate is it due to his BG not being low as when i picked him up or is it him being a bit stressed due to his new problems.
4.Any foods can anyone recommend i try out that works well for diabetic dogs. I plan on getting him down to a lower weight due to his mobility problems so him eating less is okay but him eating nothing at all is a problem when 12 hours swings around.
5.His hind legs does anyone else have a problem like this? where it just so coincidentally happens at the same time.


Thank you guys for your help i will probably here for quite a while.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

My apologies for taking a little while to approve your membership. Your posts wouldn't show up until I did that.

Was his blood sugar very high when diagnosed?

Weeks at very high blood sugar can cause a temporary loss of communication over the spine that usually clears up once the blood sugar is controlled.

And lower blood sugar levels can do the same if there are other problems with the spine. The high blood sugar problem layers over those and makes them worse.

How much does he weigh?

What is his current insulin dose in units and is it once a day or twice?

Prednisone can also induce temporary diabetes and permanent diabetes. He's off that now?

Even if the diabetes is independent of the prednisone, the prednisone will raise his blood sugar.

Natalie

[MisterAlan]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

From the report I got from the hospital the highest recorded was 488 I believe and when he was returned to me it was 159. I haven’t got hold of a BG meter yet so was wondering what type I should get. Currently he’s on vetsulin 7 unit twice a day. And weights 80.5 lbs. He is off prednisone now and will have to talk to the vet to see an alternative to it for his chronic skin condition. Currently he’s eating and drinking normally I’d say since I don’t have a meter yet, however he seems to be panting a lot after I feed him and given his insulin. Also at nights I’m not sure if it’s because I had him at the hospital and he’s got anxiety from being there but he won’t sleep easily at nights now but he doesn’t need to potty or drink but is just restless. Thank you for your assistance.

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Hi and welcome

The dose at 7 units is a low staring dose which normally for an 80 pound dog would be about 16 units . Now seeing a number at 159 with such a low dose may point to Natalie's comment about temporary diabetes from taking the steroid . Once the steroid is removed sometimes blood sugar goes back to normal . Now the problem for you is you may not catch this because of not testing sugar at home . The uncomfortable feeling at night and the heavy breathing can point to sugar going low or going to high . They have pet meters which can be expensive for the strips which is generally the larger cost of testing . Human meter are allot cheaper depending on the brand . I have used a discount human meter for jesse for her 10 years of being diabetic and never used a pet meter.I have tried maybe 6 human meters and had similar results but its not going to be perfect and it doesnt have to be as they become more accurate at lower levels when you really need to know .

Another thing to look into with weight problems and skin condition is a missed thyroid problem and you may want to check on that as there are different tests that can miss a diagnosis depending on what you get . They say methyl b-12 can help with leg weakness . Ask any question and search the site and read read read . Education is your best way to get your dog back to normal and diabetes will not prevent that as most who have come to the forum got their dogs back to normal with some limitations and you enter a new normal . Also managing diabetes at home is not expensive .

The prescription foods seem to do well for blood sugar but some dogs get tired of it . Many do use toppers . My jesse gets a homemade human grade food so she is always happy to eat . She likes yeast flakes as her topper which is a replacement for cheese but many sprinkle Parmesan cheese maybe add some boiled chicken . You can add most anything that your dog may like as long as you keep it consistent . Most times you may want to hold off snack until regulated and you want to keep the dog motivated to eat at mealtime and once regulated you maybe able to relax that .Now its not required to feed prescription food and many dont.

[MisterAlan]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Thanks for the quick reply’s. I forgot to mention he has thyroid problems and has been on meds for it. As far as his weight goes I’m trying to get it down to 70 to help with his mobility problems and I will look into he b 12vitamins. He seems to be full of energy now but is extremely bored and agitated due to his mobility lose so sudden. As far as feeding goes I have the hardest time in the mornings so far he isn’t interested but boy is he alert when the family starts eating. So atleast I know he has an appetite. Since he has skin problems I can’t feed him chicken because it will trigger skin problems so I was wondering if I could steam fish toppings for him and just mix in the broth with the dry food he eats. I’ve searched a lot online about homemade food and I might have to go hat route eventually because for his entire life my parents spoil him whenever I’m not home so he’s use to it and now I have to regulate him lol tempter tantrum time for atleast few months. Ive been trying to budget his new lifestyle in and I’m wondering if there’s certain sites y’all recommend I can get nice deals from on. Thank you again. As far as shots go it seems he doesn’t even care so I guess I’m lucky there ,from the stories and videos I’ve seen so far. Also is there a certain brand of BG meter that is good for me to get?

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Sounds like your off to a good start . Like I said I use a discount meter which is the prodigy auto code . It works for jesse but not sure about any other dog . I have used the relion meter from walmart with similar results .The one touch ultra gets good reviews and has a good track record . I have used it and had similar results to my other meters . Remember its not going to be perfect and you need to make sure you get enough blood for a sample for the meter to work correctly . Usually larger breeds are easier . I have used jesses inner lip for her entire diabetic life to get a blood sample . Practice tests could help with that even before you get a meter and lance device by just rolling up the lip and maybe wiping with a napkin .I Buy all my strips on eBay and usually get about 600 strips as quantity can save . They say the methyl version of b-12 is best but there is no set procedure on dosing . Remember it takes full curves to make dose adjustments and that is based on the lowest number in that curve

Fish is good My jesse gets canned mackerel and just loves it . I think she is the reincarnation of my cat as a child as she is more cat like than dog haha

[MisterAlan]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

I was doing my normal routine today and my dog was laying in his bed while his heads raised up and i noticed is was twitching or shaking which im assuming he is seizing up. i dont have a meter yet so i just gave him some karo corn syrup and fed him a little bit of food and he seems to be doing okay now. Im wondering if hes going through some low blood sugars at the moment. ive set up a vet visit for tomorrow because he seems fine now but after reading the replies im wondering if it truly was the prednisone that made him go temporary diabetic and now the insuline shots are uneeded or need to be lowered.

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Good Idea

Like I suggested 7 units is a tiny dose for an 80 pound dog and seeing mid 100s for blood sugar

Maybe the only way to truly find out is maybe go off of insulin for a few days . Actually jesses second vet said that maybe something to try early in her diagnosis as she was on a tiny dose . We went a couple days off insulin and symptoms returned with higher sugar and went back to injected insulin . She remained on insulin but her regulation dose was slightly lower than a normal starting dose for her weight . Some dogs just need less insulin and not sure why . Your dog may also fall into this category or still producing some of his own insulin which is called a honeymoon period .

[MisterAlan]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

I have a question about a diabetic dog after they've eaten and taken their insulin shots. Do they seem more energized after a few minutes or do they go back to being normal or sleepy?

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

My jesse early in her diagnosis would be lethargic after when insulin started kicking in at about 1.5 hours and still does on occasion but its hard to tell if the insulin is causing it as dogs nap but what i have noticed if its a hard nap and it just looks like its knocking them out then I believe it could be the action of the injected insulin . When your testing blood sugar at home you maybe able to correlate that.

[MisterAlan]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Thanks for all your help Jesse I really appreciate this a lot. I have a question about diets for diabetic dogs. As you know he has weak hind legs and it seems to be getting weaker. I would like to know are their certain meats they can’t eat because I don’t want him losing muscle mass as we are trial and error if our way to see if we can get some mobility back too him. My vet doesn’t think it’s degenrative muscle lose because it came on so suddenly and it was accompanied with finding out he has diabetes. Currently I’m looking into this b12 and fish oils as supplements for him. And I’ve read they just pee out the excess if I give them too much so that’s a bit of a relief. I already know he’s getting old and illnesses seem to be coming out of the wood works but if I can get his mobility back ASAP with diets meds and voodoo magic I’d most likely try it as long as he isn’t in pain. My glucose meter comes in Thursday so I might start testing out meals high in proteins and how they will react to his insulin because he is turning into a very picky eater all of a sudden. Because he use to eat anything and everything we fed him even if it was just dog food. I also read animal organs were good choices of food for dogs too because they are very high in nutrition. As far as balancing his meals I’m going to have to do more research but I do know protein is the major player for senior dogs it’s just diabetes makes it a pain regulating. Again thank you for your help and experience transference to people looking for help. Also it seems he changed sleeping schedules on me and turned restless at night so I’m looking into that if he is turning into like a dementia state as he ages at the moment he was whining I stopped that now he is licking his legs a lot and I’m trying to get him to stop that till I get him back on routine. Boy will we be on an adventure but I’m sad to say after I seen him lately with his lose of mobility and not able to eat, I’m going through a grieving stage already knowing what choice I will have to make if he can’t get his quality of life back because my elderly parents won’t be able to take care of this big boy when I’m at work or school. But I will try to be active and positive till I see that he just isn’t the same anymore because he’s losing that happiness I use to see in him. He is very alert and happy when it’s dinner time because he use to get scraps but now he can’t. And it’s sad to turn him down and seeing his dejected look.

[jesse girl]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Your a positive person and that can be very helpful as the little things will motivate you . High protein diets dont work well for diabetics . I actually did a raw diet for jesse in the beginning and It did not work well for her digestion and regulation of her diabetes . Usually they need a balanced diet and that includes carbs . Actually the high meat diets are hard on the organs to digest and maybe harder for senior dogs . Its amazing how we can get completely opposite information on the subject . All I can tell you is what I see in jesse and high protein meat diets did not work well for her . Balance is the key and grains can be part of that equation and why the prescription diets work for blood sugar but they are not very appetizing

The best thing to get mobility back is decent blood sugar . Now it doesn't need to look like anything close to normal for a dog to do well . Members who's dog had weakness it wasn't a fast return to normal but gradual but my theory the earlier you can improve sugar than maybe it can return quicker . Yes the methyl b-12 can be given in higher doses with no negative affects as like you said they pee it out

My Jesse is a senior dog and has similar problems to your guy and thats ok . As long as they are happy . Dogs usually dont care about getting old .

Your off to a good start . Testing sugar at home will be a great help to get your dog regulated . As far as food find a balanced diet that your dog is interested in eating because as dogs get older appetite decreases . My jesse only gets one meal a day so that is an option for dogs who wont eat 2 or it is just a battle to do so . There is flexibility in treating the disease as long as you keep it consistent. With your dog you kind of have to find your own path on managing the disease as each dog has their own unique set of challenges .

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

the best diabetic senior dog foods out there can be found at dogfoodadvisor.com
2 ilike are Natural balance lamb grain free and Merricks grain free senior.
i fed Riles the Merrick canned grain free and he gobbled it up.
read the manufacturers feed guide according to your dogs weight divide it by 2 and feed twice a day .
its better to buy a glucose meter. strips to test at fasting before your dog eats.
this home testing is crucial to take control of your dogs diabetes.
i have seen here alot of dogs with rear end issues revover nicely once they start a good regulation.
also ckeck out your local dog food store.

[MisterAlan]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Whelp it seems i hit clouds point where he refuses to eat the premade diabetes dog diets ive set out for him and is only interested in home cooked foods. Ive started to scour the internet for recipes and how they balance it out so i really have only this option to get the guy to eat. I found one site and was wondering what you take is on it if you have time to read some of it.
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdj...considerations
But yeah ive given him b-12 Methyl today and see how that goes as long as i have him on it. His legs seem to be getting worse and its sad seeing him like this. He seems extremly alert when its human dinner time or when hes slept enough for the moment but he is testing my patience with feeding him since i know he will eat, just not the food i buy but the food humans eat. As far as not eating my vet told me to give him 3 units instead of 7 since his BG will still go up but if he refuses again i should bring him in. I doubt my dog can hit low BG since it seems hes on such a low dose of insulin already and he is somewhat still energized but just lazing about due to the pain meds kicking in. I didnt see any stories about if other people had rear end problems for their dogs and it got worse then got better later on. If there is does anyone know when its gone beyond the point to if he can get some mobility back? Thank you again guys.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

The challenge with his mobility is whether it's the high blood sugar that's entirely the cause, partly the cause, or not related.

Usually, diabetic neuropathy shows up only in two situations - very very high blood sugar for an extended period of time OR moderately high blood sugar that coincides with a problem with the back legs unrelated to the blood sugar.

So getting his blood sugar down will help whatever part of it is related to that.

But it's quite possible that there are other issues going on as well.

Not sure where you are located but I recommended a one-time consult with a veterinary neurologist if there is one reasonably close to you.

A veterinary neurologist can look at exactly what is and isn't happening with your dog's mobility and do some simple tests of reflexes, etc. and pinpoint likely diagnoses and where the problem is occurring.

It makes a huge difference. So, for example, diabetic neuropathy is almost almost exhibited as weakness only in the rear legs and equally weak on both sides. If there is weakness in the front legs or if one rear leg is weak and the other one is basically okay, that points away from diabetic neuropathy.

Front leg weakness indicates that the problem in the spinal cord is much further forward, such in the neck or shoulders.

Sometimes they can tell if it's likely something in the spine itself or a tumor in the brain. There are a few diseases that could be present, such as degenerative myelopathy. That doesn't get better unfortunately.

So just a consult can tell you a lot and can often pinpoint the problem or at least eliminate some things without any further imaging.

Definitely worth the investment if you can get in to a good canine neurologist.

Natalie