Jenny Diabetic & Cushings Poodle is an Angel...

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Question about protein in diets

If you can join the sister site for the K9 Cushings, they too have a wealth of information. What I read there, made me stop my treatment of Trilostane (she was only on it for two days), until we have further testing, and also to be sure that the treatment plan involves 2x a day, and a small dose to start off with (alot smaller than my 20 mgs). I believe that information came from Harry's Mom.

This is a great place to share your experiences and to learn from others. Sometimes you feel so alone out there!!

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Frustrated, with myself and my vet.

I still haven't managed a blood sample for Jenny. I did test our meter at her vet's today as she was in for her fourth curve.

there is still no curve

older stuff:

January 2011 not diabetic yet: 110

5/17/2011 diagnosed at 496 started on 1 unit twice a day

5/24/2011
insulin of 1 unit given at 6:15 am
8:30 415
10:30 530
1:30 542
3:30 423
4:45 470
increased to 1 1/2 units twice a day

5/31/2011 did blood glucose curve at vets, I didn't get #;s but no change
increased to 3 units twice a day

6/14/2011
3 units of insulin given at 6:05 am
8:00 575
10:00 650
12:00 572
3:00 620

6/27/2011 been on 4 units twice a day for two weeks

4 units of insulin and 1/2 can of W/D at 6:05
8:30 406
10:40 469
12:30 559
2:30 492
4:00 502

********
Jenny has a voracious appetite, a pot belly, elevated liver phosphates. I asked if it is possible she has Cushings.

My vet, who is at an auction barn on Tuesdays when Jenny and I are in town for her tests (but who is some kind of power struggle with the other vet who won't get involved) tells me that if *I* think her pot belly is that distinct he will refer me to the University of Minnesota, 3 1/2 hours away for a Cushings test. I told him I have read on the internet but am not a vet and don't know if this is just a diabetes symptom.

She is obviously insulin resistant.

So, bottom line he is either
1. humoring me cause I am a pain
2. referring me to someone else cause I am a pain
3. referring me to someone else because he doesn't know

My husband pointed out that the bottom line is still that we need a second opinion. so his motives don't matter

when I mentioned that I'm struggling to test Jenny's blood sugar myself the vet tech thought the lip was a bad idea to create a wound and that the base of the tail is a bad idea. She thought I should try the ear. I haven't tried yet.

I need to read more on the Cushings forum. Jenny's eye doctor comes to our area once a month but I am going to call her tomorrow for a referral for a second opinion.

Jenny is 11. She has medical problems. But she is peppy happy dog. I am not ready to give up but I am very frustrated with my vet and my weeniness about her blood samples.

thanks for letting me vent and all of the information.

6 weeks and her levels are still so high. Even her vet warned me that bad things may start happening soon if we don't get her levels down.

Judi

[jesse girl]

Re: Question about protein in diets

we have been testing the lip for over a year and lots of times no problems lips are healthy and jesse is fine with it and others have done much longer never heard of a problem so that myth can be laid to rest as being unhealthy to do

there is a substantial improvement on the last curve and maybe 1 unit or less from seeing much better numbers is possible

[HarrysMom]

Re: Question about protein in diets

We've been using inside lips for testing without any problems so far.
In addition to elevated alk phos, does your dog also have elevated cholesterol?
How is her coat condition? Any skin problems?
My dog has Cushing's, and he did show almost all the symptoms:
(1) hunger - he used to be an extremely picky eater, and we knew that something changed when he started devouring his dry kibble.
(2) excessive urinaiton and thirst
(3) elevated liver values - 3-5x normal values
(4) ultrasounds showed bilaterally enlarged adrenal glands
(5) high cholesterol
(6) protein in urine
(7) hair took a year to grow back after each ultrasounds
(8) started to lose hair
(9) muscle wasting
(10) skin infections
(11) slight potbelly
(12) gained 8 lbs.

[Pamala]

Re: Question about protein in diets

If you can join the sister site for the K9 Cushings, they too have a wealth of information. What I read there, made me stop my treatment of Trilostane (she was only on it for two days), until we have further testing, and also to be sure that the treatment plan involves 2x a day, and a small dose to start off with (alot smaller than my 20 mgs). I believe that information came from Harry's Mom.

This is a great place to share your experiences and to learn from others. Sometimes you feel so alone out there!!

What are the signs of cushings?

[Pamala]

Re: Question about protein in diets

We put our girl on a counter and take blood from the little pad under her front paws works reall well.

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

I'm gonna try the lip again. thanks to you and Jesse for the reassurance. I'm looking at her last hematology report but I don't see cholesterol on there.

She doesn't seem to be losing hair but she did have some skin problems this winter. It mostly cleared up from an antibiotic.

I'm going to call around for a second vet opinion today. I asked my vet if we could do an ultrasound and he didn't think it would be conclusive enough.

I really think he is just sick of me and my questions.

thanks to all of you.

Pamela, the footpad looks tough, I don't think I could do it there.

We've been using inside lips for testing without any problems so far.
In addition to elevated alk phos, does your dog also have elevated cholesterol?
How is her coat condition? Any skin problems?
My dog has Cushing's, and he did show almost all the symptoms:
(1) hunger - he used to be an extremely picky eater, and we knew that something changed when he started devouring his dry kibble.
(2) excessive urinaiton and thirst
(3) elevated liver values - 3-5x normal values
(4) ultrasounds showed bilaterally enlarged adrenal glands
(5) high cholesterol
(6) protein in urine
(7) hair took a year to grow back after each ultrasounds
(8) started to lose hair
(9) muscle wasting
(10) skin infections
(11) slight potbelly
(12) gained 8 lbs.

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Pamala: symptoms of Cushings:

What are the Symptoms of Cushing's?

Typical physical symptoms include:

Increased/excessive drinking (polydipsia or PD)
Increased/excessive urination (polyuria or PU)
Increased/excessive appetite (polyphagia)
enlarged, distended abdomen
muscle weakness (most commonly in the back legs)
thinning hair (alopecia--usually evenly distributed) and lack of new hair growth
thinning skin
"skull-like" appearance of head
hyperpigmentation of skin
calcified skin bumps
obesity
chronic or frequent infections (most notably pancreatitis, urinary tract infections, strep throat, and staph infections)

Behavioral symptoms include:

lethargy/decreased activity
increased panting
seeking out of cool sleeping surfaces (bathroom tiles, etc.)
disturbance of the sleep/wake pattern (increased sleeping during the day, restlessness at night)
decreased interaction with owner

[bgdavis]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Hi,

My girl, Crissy, had both Cushings' and diabetes. I tested her blood on the inside upper lip for 5 years with great success. If you want to see a picture of a dog with Cushings' take a look at her pictures here:
http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83


Bonnie and Angel Criss

[k9diabetes]

Re: Question about protein in diets

I just have a moment, but wanted to mention that technically at 8 pounds and 4 units, she is not insulin resistant. She would have to be getting 8 or more units of insulin per injection and still show no movement in her blood sugar.

Some dogs need more than the average size dose. We have had a couple of terriers here who each weighed about 24 pounds and both needed around 21 units of insulin per injection. Once they got that much insulin, their regulation was just fine. They just needed a higher than average dose.

And there is a tendency for the blood sugar to hover in the 300s and 400s until you get really close to the right dose before it drops significantly.

So it's possible she just plain needs more insulin than she's getting.

The dose should be increased - was it after the last curve?

You really don't want to be caught trying to figure out what the issues are with these vets. So a second opinion sounds like a good idea. Perhaps there is someone closer who could give you what you need as that is a very long drive.

Natalie

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

thanks Natalie, we started her at 5 units twice a day, today. I wouldn't mind the drive if it is my only option but I'm hoping I can get a second opinion closer to home before we start traipsing all over.

I was mostly disgusted that he is basing the referral on my observations. I've never been around another diabetic dog, I have no clue if this is "normal."

I'm less emotional about it today. Onward and upward!

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Hi,

My girl, Crissy, had both Cushings' and diabetes. I tested her blood on the inside upper lip for 5 years with great success. If you want to see a picture of a dog with Cushings' take a look at her pictures here:
http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83


Bonnie and Angel Criss

what a beauty your Criss was! she looked so happy in her after picture. We are definitely trying the lip again tonight. I think we can do this if I use the bathroom counter where she knows she has to suffer whatever I do to her

thanks, Judi

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

I got an appointment for Jenny this Friday, at a clinic in Fargo with lots of diabetes experience and Cushings experience.

Now I wonder if I'm not jumping the gun.

My vet is faxing her records over. The vet tech I spoke to was aware that he had planned to refer us to the University of Minnesota which definitely seems like overkill at this point.

Hopefully this vet will have more diabetes experience. I'm feeling major guilt and second guessing myself again.

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Well thank you all for the information you provide. Jenny tested positive for Cushings today. This new vet seems very knowledgeable about Cushings and Canine Diabetes.

We started her on Lysodren for the next 7 days then she goes back next Friday for another ACHT (?) test and another BG curve.

This vet was going to defer to her primary vet who doesn't have the test for Cushings and never brought it up last year when her liver phosphates got so high. I told him that everyone is being so careful not to step on toes and my Jenny is caught in the middle. I asked him to please handle her Cushings and Diabetes. I don't know if I'd have had the guts if it weren't for all of you.

So, we are on the lookout for side effects and we have prednisone on hand if we need it. Jenny is 11 and he told me if we can get these 2 issues under control he doesn't see why she can't live to be 14 or 15. That is the most encouraging news I've heard in a long time.

Thanks again for being here.

Judi & Jenny (who now takes as much medication as my 80 year old Mom)!

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Cushings/Diabetes question:

hi: I am getting help from the Cushings forum (thank you) but we go to get re-tested tomorrow since Jenny had an immediate reaction to Lysoderm (sp). I thought I saw in some of the posts that there were Cushings medicines that didn't go too well with a diabetic dog. I'm sorry I'm in a hurry and can't scan again.

Anything I should be on the lookout for tomorrow if/when he suggests something new?

Right now I am waiting to see if she really does have cushings. The folks on the Cushings forum think the diagnosis might have been a false positive since she instantly got diarrhea and threw up a little from the medication.

thanks for any help. again. You are all so generous with your time & knowledge.

Judi & Jenny