Jenny Diabetic & Cushings Poodle is an Angel...

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

thanks again Patty and Carol. I did watch the videos. What good dogs! Carol I just saw some of your posts about syringes with the half unit markings since I just got in 100 that don't have that! argh.

My vet just faxed me her blood curve info. For some reason I'm missing a date and am not pushing him yet since he thinks I'm nuts.

January 2011 not diabetic yet: 110

5/17/2011 diagnosed at 496 started on 1 unit twice a day

5/24/2011
insulin of 1 unit given at 6:15 am
8:30 415
10:30 530
1:30 542
3:30 423
4:45 470

increased to 1 1/2 units twice a day

5/31/2011 did blood glucose curve at vets, I didn't get #;s but no change
increased to 3 units twice a day

6/14/2011

3 units of insulin given at 6:05 am

8:00 575
10:00 650
12:00 572
3:00 620

I have been feeding her a variety of different foods so that has not helped. She has a liver problem and takes hormones for incontinence. Right now she is not taking her liver medicine. The vet said we can retest all of that wants we get her sugan in line. The Vet doesn't think the hormone she takes is as detrimental to her diabetes as the natural hormones she would be producing if she had not been spayed would be.

This week the goal is the W/D at every meal. We are now at 4 units twice a day, and we are going to play it by ear whether she goes to the vet after 1 week or 2 for her next session there. Hopefully within the next day or so I will have my own monitor and can test her myself.

[jesse girl]

Re: Question about protein in diets

home testing will make a huge difference

I had the same look from my vet what planet did you come from look It doesn't matter to me i will do whats necessary to keep jesse happy healthy and safe

[Patty]

Re: Question about protein in diets

She has a liver problem and takes hormones for incontinence. Right now she is not taking her liver medicine. The vet said we can retest all of that wants we get her sugan in line. The Vet doesn't think the hormone she takes is as detrimental to her diabetes as the natural hormones she would be producing if she had not been spayed would be.

Somehow I glossed over the hormone for incontinence even though you'd written it before. How long has she been on this?

Hormones do play a part in blood sugar regulation as they are an intricate role in the endocrine system. We see intact female dogs that develop diabetes while they are in heat and occasionally go into remission when their heat cycle ends or they are spayed.

Perhaps the hormone is creating a bit of resistance to the insulin effect and it will take more to regulate her.

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Somehow I glossed over the hormone for incontinence even though you'd written it before. How long has she been on this?

Hormones do play a part in blood sugar regulation as they are an intricate role in the endocrine system. We see intact female dogs that develop diabetes while they are in heat and occasionally go into remission when their heat cycle ends or they are spayed.

Perhaps the hormone is creating a bit of resistance to the insulin effect and it will take more to regulate her.

She's been on it since last fall. She started losing bladder control in her sleep (first time she was sleeping on my husband's pillow! lol). We started at one pill a week and are up to one pill every 4 days. I forget the name of them and I'm at work. Her Doc did remind me that we are treating the whole dog not just one condition.

She is very sensitive to these hormones. Last week I was trying to wait till evening to give her her hormone and at lunch she had had an accident where she slept.

thanks again, Judi

[jesse girl]

Re: Question about protein in diets

I can see where patty is going with this and her instincts may be wright and the hormones may be causing this sustained high blood sugar with no dent from insulin in reduction of numbers and it seems to be going higher

treating the whole dog and not one condition may not be an approach I would take in this case

high numbers like this are not sustainable and needs to be lowered as a priority

it may take allot more insulin to break this possible resistance created by the medication if that is what is happening jesses diabetes did begin at the time she was in heat and she also developed pancreatitis the diabetes may have been temporary but the pancreatitis may have made it permanent just a theory

this is where your home testing will help if resistance is broken you may have to reduce dose or a change in the medication could change the numbers quite dramatically

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

thanks Jesse's girl. I just re-watched a lip video and a base of tail video. Those dogs are all so well behaved. I'm going to pinch Jenny's lip tonight and see what she does.

Jenny's eye Vet only comes to our town once a month. We made a July appointment and I left a message with some questions. She may call me back on Monday. I'm hoping she is more knowledgeable than our regular vet as another resource.

[CarolW]

Re: Question about protein in diets

When using the "Lip," though I HAVE seen pictures of people pricking the actual Lip - that, I believe is rare, and perhaps you'd have to pinch it.

But the way Natalie pricked Chris - and the way I did Kumbi, was somewhat different. There's a long description, excruciatingly detailed, of the "Lip-Stick," beginnng on this page:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bgtest.php

There are pictures on each page, and I believe they are very clear. I'd suggest leafing through those pages. You can keep using the NEXT buttons above the main pictures on each page, to continue, and you can also use the PREV buttons to go backwards - and the UP button to go to the main index page for this series.

Some people have said this series is helpful. See what you think; ha!

I mention this because instead of pinching, you merely hold the upper lip, folded back, against the upper jaw - which leaves you with one hand remaining to operate with - but a little practice gives the ability.

You can "walk yourself through" the whole sequence - without actually pricking! Which, I think, is a good thing to do, as that way, you get practice, so your hands know what they're doing - ahead of time.

I believe Natalie mentioned that just WHERE you prick (there's some leeway, and only one spot is illustrated in this series) can make a big difference whether the location bleeds easily or not. Also, a dog may bleed more easily on one side than on the other side.

Well, you can read through the pages.

I LOVE the Lip-Stick - because it's actually painless to the dog, with EXTREMELY rare exceptions. I did apparently touch a nerve on Kumbi, twice - out of thousands of pricks! He let me know! Kumbi ALWAYS let me know if something hurt.

You can also use various techniques to engage your dog's cooperation for the Lip-Stick - or any other Sticking location, as well. Remember that we have to learn, but also, the DOG has to learn as well!

Generally, I'd give a small treat after the test; that really helps a dog learn to cooperate. We have numbers of forum members who use the Lip-Stick - or some other Stick - and I hope they'll be along to help you out too.

Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:11:29 (PDT)

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

your Kumbi sounds like he was a real sweetheart Carol. I'm so sorry he passed. I am just cuddling her right now. I will check out your link and do a few dry test runs this evening. thanks for the link!! and the help

[k9diabetes]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Hi and Welcome!

It's hard to know what might be behind her rising glucose on more insulin. A couple of things come to mind.

Honeymooning is one possible explanation:
http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2284

You probably caught her diabetes pretty early, so it could be that she was still producing some insulin when the first curve was done and that her insulin-producing ability has been slowly failing and now is completely exhausted, which makes her need more insulin injected to get to the same blood sugar level.

A urinary tract infection is always worth considering any time a diabetic dog's blood sugar goes up. If the vet hasn't checked for this, it should be checked. Bacteria just LOVE all that sugar in the urine.

There are also other potential issues, such as Cushing's disease. That's something to consider down the road if her insulin dose goes much higher. At 8 pounds, 4 units is already half a unit per pound. Nothing wrong with that - it's well within normal - but it's not having much of an effect on her blood sugar. Infections, inflammation, and Cushing's disease all make the body resistant to insulin, requiring a lot more insulin to get the same effect.

Rebound is a possibility but it sure doesn't look like her blood sugar has ever gone low.

But home testing will answer the question for you so that's the next thing I would do.

I would stick with WD for now while you sort out the insulin dose. Later, if you want to change the food, Blue Buffalo has a great reputation here with diabetics and would be one I'd suggest trying.

Natalie

January 2011 not diabetic yet: 110

5/17/2011 diagnosed at 496 started on 1 unit twice a day

5/24/2011
insulin of 1 unit given at 6:15 am
8:30 415
10:30 530
1:30 542
3:30 423
4:45 470
increased to 1 1/2 units twice a day

5/31/2011 did blood glucose curve at vets, I didn't get #;s but no change
increased to 3 units twice a day

6/14/2011
3 units of insulin given at 6:05 am
8:00 575
10:00 650
12:00 572
3:00 620

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

thank you Natalie for the info and the link. I will have them check for a UTI, she also needs her teeth cleaned which was postponed the day of the diabetes diagnosis. Her vet did mention that this could be a contributing factor.

I've been worried about Cushings since she started having incontinence but since the hormone works I had let that go.

Jenny already has eye problems. I am trying to prepare myself for the fact that she will most likely go blind and let her enjoy seeing the bunnies and squirrels while she can. Her eye doctor is supposed to call me back tomorrow.

I bought a monitor on Friday but it was like she knew. She has been so crabby I haven't tested yet. I must do it tonight. Thanks again, reading everyone's threads and watching the videos is very helpful

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

well, strike one! I bought the smallest Relion at Wal Mart because they didn't have the One Touch Ultra in stock. The needle was very small so I tried it on her lip. She wiggled and licked any blood we got and was NOT happy I was messing with her mouth.

So, looking for larger lancet today or will just order the better monitor from Amazon.

I have a call in to her vet about her teeth asking why we can't go ahead and clean them in case there is some infection there. No replies needed, just keeping a record. She is still perky but her eyes are looking sunken in and blue.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Welcome!

I am a new member, and everyone has been so helpful. Carol has some wonderful ideas, and I'll let you know what worked for me.

Abby is 11.5 Schnorkie, and she was diagnosed the beginning of May as well. At first she was on 10 units of NPH 1x a day, since then went to 5 units 2x a day. Since then we were off of insulin for a while, her BG levels went to normal (I think we went through some Honeymoon period), but since she had a ACTH test (a test for cushings), they have risen. The folks on this site, suggested a meter, which I bought the One Touch Ultra 2. I took a deep breath, and began the process of getting a drop of blood.

I have found that the base of the tail has worked for me. My Abby would not have me test in her mouth at all. I have trouble cleaning (brushing) her teeth on a weekly basis!! I keep her trim on her back (shave her like a Schauzer), so this is easy for me. She has been very cooperative, but I used Carol's suggestioins and they all seemed to work. Warm Compresses before the test, as well as boiled chicken for Abby has made this a breeze!!

If I can share anything, I'd be more than happy to pass along any information, even though I am a newbie. Just remember that you are not alone.

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

thanks Barb, I've been reading your thread because I think Abby and my Jenny have similar issues. This forum has been a life line for sure!

I hope Abby gets under control, sounds like you are on the right track. I think I'm going to get Jenny tested for Cushings. She has the appetite, the pot belly, and had skin issues earlier this year.

thanks again for the support. It is MUCH appreciated

[Patty]

Re: Question about protein in diets

I think one of the main concerns with the dental procedure is putting a newly diagnosed diabetic under anesthesia. Often liver enzymes are elevated with initial diagnosis though not always. I wouldn't want to tax the liver if you don't have to. How bad are her teeth? Could it wait a bit?

I use Petzlife Oral Cleansing gel to brush Ali's teeth. With a dog that won't let you brush, I believe they also have a spray. Just a thought.

If you think there's an infection within her mouth, would the vet consider antibiotics until he/she felt the procedure was safe to do?

[Judi]

Re: Question about protein in diets

Hi Patty: yes her teeth can wait; The vet called me back this morning and we agreed that she isn't on enough of a system yet to mess with insulin and food for a fasting anesthesia. Her liver levels have been elevated for quite some time.

Great idea about the antibiotic though, I'm going to ask him for one.