My Baby Boy Greyson!

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

thank you, kathy and natalie!

as far as him being high -- (still only urine testing) he has been about +2/+3 so not super high. not drinking more or showing any other symptoms of being really high.

natalie you asked if he ever did this in the past. before he was diagnosed [what's the short for that, pre d/x?] he was a free grazer, so i have nothing to base this on unfortunately.

i had an idea to leave out the veggies this morning and only feed brown rice and meat and he actually ate almost all of it. maybe it is just him being picky and suddenly deciding he doesn't like green beans anymore. he did the same when i was giving him a broccoli/green bean mixture and stopped liking the broccoli so i switched to plain green beans.

having an appetite is good, right? i am going to the store but wanted to run something by you ladies first. my mom thinks mixed vegetables would be something he would like (visually, too) but that includes carrots and corn. i know carrots are okay on occasion but i've never heard anything about peas and corn. do you think i'd be okay feeding him mixed veggies as long as i match up his insulin to it?

[k9diabetes]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Those vegetables are all high on the starch/sugar end so wouldn't necessarily be my first choice. Maybe in small quantities?

Natalie

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

he has decided he no longer wants home cooked. i'm back to square one. he loved the california natural i gave him (still had quite a few cans left) but he only liked it the first day. so now i'm on the hunt for something new.

i had the hardest time at petco finding calorie info for different foods. i was able to call halo and wellness and get the calories for those but dick van pattens natural balance was another story.

do you all know of a site that has a list of different foods with a nutritional breakdown including calories? i don't want to try to guess by ounces b/c i was surprised to find that halo chicken spot's stew only has 60 something for 5 oz and a little over 100 for a 13 oz. can.

he needs way more than that per meal.

i've searched all kinds of different places trying to find the calorie info for the canned chicken and sweet potato natural balance. everytime i've called i've been put on hold forever and then switched to voicemail and apparently there is only one person there that would have access to that info. Petco even tried calling their supplier to try to get the info but no luck there.

Anyway, if you know of any site it would be so great. I think I had a mild spell with him going hypo yesterday/last night. He didn't eat a bit of food and so I skipped last nights injection.

I've never had such a hard time getting him to eat. I'm going to try to get him to the vet tomorrow to make sure there isn't another underlying issue like natalie and kathy suggested.

Spot's stew has great reviews but I know the carrots can drive up the blood sugar. As long as he likes it, can I give it to him and just adjust his insulin to fit that particular food?

I'm amazed that it is so difficult to find calories for Natural Balance canned. =/

Thanks in advance for any input.

[We Hope]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Brittany,

Try these--I believe Natural Balance is shown on both of them as Dick Van Patten Nature's Formulas

http://www.petobesityprevention.com/...ouch_Foods.pdf

Canned and Pouched food-calories

http://www.petobesityprevention.com/..._Dry_Foods.pdf

Dry food-calories

Although I don't see it on their website now, at one time Halo was promoting Spot's Stew as a diabetes-friendly food.

We'll go back to Dr. Schall's article (he's really been getting a workout here recently ) from April 2009, DVM 360 on diabetes:

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com...09%09&pageID=8

Diabetes mellitus (Proceedings)
Apr 1, 2009
By: William D. Schall, DVM, DACVIM
CVC PROCEEDINGS
DVM 360

"The consequences of feeding a non-prescription diabetes diet are usually minimal as the increased dose of required insulin is seldom greater that 2-4%."

So here's a specialist saying that you can work with just about any diet and adjust the insulin to fit it. He's stressing the idea that the most important thing to do is to keep your dog eating so he/she can have full insulin shots.

HTH!

Kathy

[eyelostit]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Hi Britanny

I use Orijen food, the Petco here does not sell it (I don't know why) but I buy it at the feed store.

Dolly

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

i'm terrified.

i took greyson to the vet yesterday due to his lack of appetite to try to see if there was an underlying issue.

they took some blood and ran a lot of tests. i called this morning to find out the results. everything came back okay but one thing came back bad and i'm so scared.

his triglycerides were through the roof. 1500. i don't know anything about this and i'm terrified. the vet told me to give him 50 mg of niacin (flush free) twice a day.

do any of you have any experience with high triglyceride levels for your babies? she mentioned that it could cause a stroke. i'm taking him in tuesday to be checked for cushings and also to get his thyroid checked.

i am so upset i feel like i have to throw up. i'm scared of going through the wknd and him having a stroke. have you all ever given niacin?

any thoughts you can give me would be much appreciated. i'm freaking out. 1500 is super high. i think she said 150 is what it should be. i was giving him smoked pig ears every once in awhile and i am stopping that but surely that alone wouldn't have done it. he was on a homecooked diet with low fat meat, rice, and green beans.

his new food (which he loves, btw) is merrick canned and it only says a "min" amount on the can so i have no way of knowing how much fat it really has. just says "min 4"

thanks in advance for any input. i'm so so scared i'm going to lose him.

[We Hope]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Brittany,

This is a high amount of fats in the blood--another name for it is hyperlipidemia.

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Triglycerides

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperlipidemia

The problem is that diabetes means a tendency toward problems like this; the triglycerides also can be the cause of insulin resistance. Schnauzers have a tendency to run high triglycerides whether or not they have diabetes--it's in their genes.

I just bumped up the thread, "Kramer-Back in the hospital" because Kramer has had a lot of problems with lipids in his blood; Kramer was taking a cholesterol drug for them.

Going as low-fat as possible is a good idea. Merrick is very easy to communicate with; you might want to phone (toll free) or e-mail them with your minimum fat 4% question.

http://www.merrickpetcare.com/contact_us/

Toll free number:
1.800.664.7387

email:
customerservice@merrickpetcare.com

I think now that the problem has been found and is being treated, things will get better for Greyson.

Kathy

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

thank you kathy. calling them now.

this may explain why we have had such trouble getting him regulated. is it usually due to cushings that triglycerides can be so elevated?? thank you for the links -- i now understand so much better.

Brittany,

This is a high amount of fats in the blood--another name for it is hyperlipidemia.

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Triglycerides

http://diabetesindogs.wikia.com/wiki/Hyperlipidemia

The problem is that diabetes means a tendency toward problems like this; the triglycerides also can be the cause of insulin resistance. Schnauzers have a tendency to run high triglycerides whether or not they have diabetes--it's in their genes.

I just bumped up the thread, "Kramer-Back in the hospital" because Kramer has had a lot of problems with lipids in his blood; Kramer was taking a cholesterol drug for them.

Going as low-fat as possible is a good idea. Merrick is very easy to communicate with; you might want to phone (toll free) or e-mail them with your minimum fat 4% question.

http://www.merrickpetcare.com/contact_us/

Toll free number:
1.800.664.7387

email:
customerservice@merrickpetcare.com

I think now that the problem has been found and is being treated, things will get better for Greyson.

Kathy

[We Hope]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Brittany,

Diabetes, Cushing's, and Hypothyroidism can all mean high lipids. They also mean more of a risk for pancreatitis, so it's a good thing they've been found and Greyson's started getting treated for them.

Kathy

[k9diabetes]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Hi Brittany,

I don't have any personal experience with high triglycerides but have seen a few dogs who have had them. Strokes are quite rare in dogs so I think it's okay to start breathing again. After all, there was a time when Greyson's diabetes seemed like the end of the world!

You're doing everything you can for Greyson to make him feel better - that's what's important.

From DVM 360: http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com.../detail/456193

The prognosis for patients with secondary hyperlipidemia is favorable with effective treatment of the underlying disorder. For patients with primary hyperlipidemia, a lifelong commitment by the owner and veterinarian is required. In our experience, most patients respond favorably to diet modification alone or in combination with pharmacologic agents.

Natalie

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

natalie-- i still remember the day i found out greyson was diabetic and it DID seem like the end of the world but i remember all of you telling me how much easier it would be to deal with and now i am so much more confident. so thank you for that. i still don't know what i'd do if i hadn't found this place.

kathy- thank you again for the advice and info to call merrick. i was able to find out the exact amount of fat percentage and they also were very helpful in looking for the one labeled as low glycemic that was also the lowest in fat.

i was able to find 100 mg niacin tablets so i'm giving him 50 mg twice a day. i bought some fat free cheese slices and so far he is swallowing the pills without any problems. i'm not sure how well the niacin will help but it works to lower triglycerides in humans at least.

tuesday he is being tested for cushings. i suspect that this is what it is.

as far as cushings goes, is it treated fairly easily with a daily pill? is it true that once the cushings is treated, he could be regulated easier? i have always suspected cushings but i just thought it was me being paranoid. his hair always looked a little thin to me but i just figured it was because he always has clothes on.

the reason i freaked out so much when i heard there was a chance he could have a stroke is because my mom has had 1 major and 2 mini strokes. she couldn't speak for 6 months so it was a very scary time.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

Brittany,

Presumably they will do the ACTH test to check for Cushings (they should do the ACTH, not the LDDS), which means they will check his blood for the base level of cortisol and then they will give him a shot with a "stimulant" that will cause his adrenal gland to release cortisol and they then draw blood again in an hour or two and measure to see how much cortisol he produces after that stimulation.

There is a direct connection between cortisol and blood sugar levels so when they stimulate the cortisol production, his blood sugar is likely to run high for as much as 48 hours after the test.

Perhaps ask them to check the glucose level at the same time as they draw the second post-stim blood sample so they can see whether his blood sugar is already rising since you don't test his blood sugar at home.

Chris needed a significant increase in his insulin for two full days after he had this test. It's a problem only for diabetics - dogs who produce insulin are able to compensate.

I read somewhere in researching Chris' risk of a stroke when he had a clot in his heart, that the way a dog's brain is set up in terms of circulation the kinds of problems common in human strokes do not usually occur. I will have to see if I can find that.

If it comes to Cushings, you can go over to our sister forum for canine Cushings. The treatment for it requires that the vet knows exactly what to do and how do do it. It is treated generally with medication.

But I say wait until you know exactly what he does and doesn't have before worrying about any of that. You could sit up all night reading about Cushings and then find out he doesn't have it!

What I've seen of his blood sugar doesn't necessarily look like Cushings.

Natalie

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

hey all - quick question!


i'm about to give him his shot but not sure how much to give him. ordering the glucometer tomorrow. i tested his urine tonight right before i fed him and it showed negative. should i hold off on the insulin? or could he still be high and it not show high because it hadn't been long between the last time he went to the bathroom? this afternoon i checked his urine [trying to follow the vetsulin guide to urine testing to check for rebound] and he was +2 borderline +3

he ate all of his meal. i just don't know how much to decrease tonight or if i should even give him insulin being that he showed negative on the urine strip. his morning dose was 3.5 units. i was considering only giving 2 units or less if i gave him anything. i just don't want him going hypo since the strip showed negative. this is when a glucometer would be helpful. can't wait to get one.


thanks!

[k9diabetes]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

I definitely would give it. You could cut it to 2.5 or 3.0... I don't want to cut it too much because we do want his urine to get to low to no glucose... so don't withhold it or you set of a high and starting bouncing around.

Ideally, I'd like to see him on a dose you can give him every day - the same amount.

[brittanyt]

Re: Greyson - Now I'm only intermittently mildly terrified!

sounds good. thank you SO much for the prompt reply. drawing it up now!