Ollie's Over the Rainbow Bridge

[jesse girl]

Re: Ollie's journey

Thanks so much for that information. I had no idea doses could get that big.

So, what would be a complete curve?

Mary

yes they can but its rare and i think there are other medical issues that maybe the need for a higher dose

the key is not going past a dose thats needed if that happens it can create allot problems thats why we do complete curves and dose adjustments are based on the lowest number in that curve

Tonyr gives a good explanation of what a curve is . some even do 24 hour curves

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Ollie's journey

Hi Mary,

Here's another example of what a curve looks like. You test before breakfast and then every 2 hours for 12 hours, right up to dinner.

This is what many would consider to be an ideal curve...

[amydunn19]

He is higher right before dinner because he has likely run out of insulin. That's a guess but is typically the case. You will know more when u do a curve.

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie's journey

Hi Mary,

Here's another example of what a curve looks like. You test before breakfast and then every 2 hours for 12 hours, right up to dinner.

This is what many would consider to be an ideal curve...

Keep in mind the shown curve is just one example. Curves aren't always the perfect "saucer shape" where the lowest number is at the mid-point.

My Annie's curve would CLIMB for a couple of hours after a meal and injection of Novolin-N. It would then level out, getting the HIGHEST number around the mid-point. After about 6 hours, her numbers would start to decrease (insulin finally working) and her numbers would be the lowest at, or just prior to the next meal / injection.

My thought is that a good curve would be testing about every 2-3 hours where the lowest reading is in the low-mid 100s, while the highest reading generally stays below the low-mid 200s. The actual shape of the curve can vary from situation to situation.

Craig

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

An update on Ollie:

Yesterday we did a more complete curve. Note that his feeding/insulin shot time is 7:30 am and 7:30 pm. He was at 24 units. Here's the numbers, still high, unfortunately:

6:30 am: 437

9:30 am: 619

12:30 pm: 445

3:30 pm 557

6:30 pm: 497

So we increased to 25.5 units last night. Right now he is trying to eat a lot of grass outside. I haven't seen him vomit, but that's what he's trying to do. I know that's bad, maybe ketoacidosis. I will do a urine test asap. We are 2 hours away from vet, so it's not an easy decision to go or not.

We have started giving him Cranberry Relief as a preventative for uti. He doesn't appear to have any symptoms of that yet as far as I can tell (no abdominal tenderness, or discharge).

Will keep you posted, and thanks again for all the advice. He remains peppy, and weight loss has slacked off.

I forgot to mention that he rarely has urination accidents anymore, and has stopped drinking large amounts of water. AND a reminder that my monitor tested high against two others at the vet, one human, one the same model, Alphatrak.

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie's journey

Although we agree with small insulin increases, going from 24 to 25.5 units is a tiny 6.25% increase. Possibly a 10 to 15 percent increase would show an improvement without being too much?

Craig

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

GOOD NEWS! Ollie's keytones are negative! He's acting fine as well. His urine test said his glucose was at 1+++.

Thanks Craig. I do have trouble knowing how much to increase it by. I think my husband did go ahead and do 26 units this morning, though that's not much different. I guess I'm scared of going too far. I mean, the incremental overall lowering of his blood sugar seems linear, to be progressing at a steady rate. However, I realize the decrease in blood sugar could be non-linear, and the change might come quite dramatically. I imagine it's different for every dog.

Anyway, therein lies my caution and resulting incremental dose increases. But I do appreciate the advice. So, if I did increase by 2 units or more, what kind of numbers would you then slow down at?

Also, I haven't been exercising him much at all, not even short walks. Now that his hind end is working better, what can I expect a short walk to do to his blood sugar? I would think it would increase his metabolism, and use up the insulin faster. Is that right? Or is the insulin pretty stable regardless?

Mary

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie's journey

Just my personal idea would be to increase by 10 to 15% until the lowest number breaks into the 200s, then make smaller changes to get into the 100s.

Craig

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

Ollie is not doing so good today.

We now have him at 29 units. We did a curve yesterday, and he's still in the high 300's-400's. He actually did have a reading of 291 this week, though. Keytones are negative.

He's been having trouble with one eye lately, trying to keep it closed. It looks a little swollen. Last night he was very restless, so we let him outside to pee and then got him on the bed. He was shivering for a long time, even after we had him under a blanket. Now this morning both eyes are looking swollen and are maybe photophobic. He's not shivering anymore. He's trying to keep his eyes closed, and seems to be in discomfort.

He didn't want to eat this morning, but we did manage to entice him with an egg on top of his food. So he's had his insulin this morning.

Has anyone had a dog with this kind of eye trouble? It may not be related to the diabetes, I guess. Doing a search on photophobia, it could be anything.

Worried for him. Also...the vet is 2 hrs away, so that is why we aren't rushing to get him to a doc. He's not suffering horribly.

I never mentioned it before, but Ollie has a huge lump on his neck. Two vets have seen it. One thinks it's cancer and will eventually block off his airway. The other did not know and said we could biopsy or do surgery or both. Ollie is a lumpy dog anyway, so it could well be benign. However, the first vet thinks it's cancer because it changes size.

We have a very limited income, and I don't want to have Ollie in a stressful environment like the vet. He really turns to jello there. So I guess we're in a wait-and-see mode.

[jesse girl]

Re: Ollie's journey

eye complications from diabetes is not unusual and can be serious

now you have to determine if its an eye condition where there is discomfort and pain or something else

my jeeses eyes may close if blood sugar is spiking or dropping thats maybe more of a lethargic feeling causing the eyes to close

are the eyes red maybe swollen does there appear to be pain .

of course the big problem for diabetics is cataracts . they can give discomfort and can lead to other problems

probably the best thing is to get the eyes checked if unsure .

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

We are currently talking to 2 vets, one online. Hoping we don't have to travel 5 hours to a specialist.

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

Yes, he has cataracts and this does appear to be painful. We noticed a big increase in cloudiness of his left eye before things got worse in the last two days.

[MomofGus]

Re: Ollie's journey

He probably needs to be seen by the vet and have his eyes checked in the next day or so. He could have an eye infection, could have scratched his eye causing redness, pain and swelling. Probably needs antibiotic eye meds would be my guess. When my Gus had eye discharge that looked to be infection, his sugar ran a little higher until the meds had time to give him some relief. And, he is blind from cataracts from the diabetes. His eyes tend to crust and that is because the excess sugar in his body comes through his tear duct.

[jesse girl]

Re: Ollie's journey

this is something you probably dont want to sit on because the outcomes can be quite disturbing as we have seen on the forum with some of the worse outcomes were eye removal

as you probably know from talking to the vets they need to check eye pressure

olllie just may need the correct eye drops and probably a specialist is more appropriate because there may not be time wasted guessing . even though the upfront cost maybe more it may save in pain and suffering down the road

i Have exclusively managed jesse's diabetes without a vet and that is something as a caretaker i can do at home but somethings we just need professionals and we just dont have the expertise and medicine to treat

Hope ollie improves soon and you get some answers. like i said sometimes getting the right medicine is all that is needed and they can improve quite quickly

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

I've been talking to a vet on "just Ask" and he's been super helpful. My country vet (2 hrs away) does not have the proper equipment (tonometer). And Ollie just barked a lot when a friend came over. The online vet agreed, he probably wouldn't be doing that if he was in a lot of pain.

So, I will try to get Ollie up to a specialist in the city (5 hrs away) tomorrow. I'm not sure we can swing it financially, but the online vet made it seem like it wouldn't be thousands of dollars or anything. Maybe we'll get lucky and it will resolve today.