Ollie's Over the Rainbow Bridge

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie's journey

Every pup / situation is different. A few might have their lowest number at the mid point (+6 hours), a few might get the insulin working quickly and have their lowest reading within 3-4 hours, others take longer and don't have their lowest reading until just before the next meal / injection.

I guess it's a combination of factors. How fast each pup gets the insulin working, how fast their metabolism is getting their food digested, and general activity.

For years I've given slightly more insulin with Annie's dinner because (I think) she is much less active in the evening, basically sleeping from shortly after dinner until the next breakfast! So for Annie, less activity seems to require a little more insulin. Of course every dog is different, and this is something you can test for yourself later when Ollie finally gets to better numbers.

Craig

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

An update:

Yesterday Ollie tested at 592. Still real high, but finally there is some progress here. He's at 17 units now. I'll retest in a few days and see where he's at.

[amydunn19]

Re: Ollie's journey

Do you have other numbers from tests during the same day? One numbers can't really gauge where he is at - if you can do a few more tests during different times of the day, that might say more. You don't have to do curves but it will give you a better idea of how he is really doing in context.

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

OK, we tested Ollie's blood 3 times today, here's the results:

(he gets fed at 7:30 am and 7:30 pm)

10 am: 511

2pm: 643

6pm: 568

He was getting 17 units, and we'll increase it to 18 tonight.


At least the numbers are going down. About two weeks ago, we got these:

8:30am: 720

11:00am: 676

2:00pm: 743

He also seems peppier, and went a whole night without any accidents last two nights. Any advice/comments?

Thanks,

Mary

[CraigM]

Re: Ollie's journey

I'd probably go for 19. Still plenty high.

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

OK, Ollie tested like this yesterday (we've been giving him 19 units for a few days):

9:25 am: 671

1:15 pm: 611

6:50 pm: 539

So we increased to 21 units today. Hopefully we'll see some significant change soon.

Mary

[oliversparents]

meter advice

So, we are in limbo for a few days at 21 units because I am waiting for more strips in the mail. Ollie is spunky! Good to see him wagging his tail a lot and barking.

I am wondering if I should get an additional meter. Both for the less expensive strips and for an additional reading when in doubt.

My Alphatrak tested high in comparison with my vet's Alphatrak on the same blood sample. I'm thinking if we ever get Ollie's levels down, this could be dangerous. I think it was 50-100 higher than my vet's meter. Control test checks out fine.

I've just done some research, and although human meters seem to work, I guess dogs have smaller blood cells and their glucose is found more in the plasma than in human blood. This all makes human meters read lower, which was my experience at the vet...who also tested the same blood sample with a human meter.

I don't seem to be able to regularly get a decent sized drop of blood, so would prefer a meter that doesn't need much blood. Or maybe I should use a different gauge lance? I'm testing on the elbow callous and carpal pad. Can't get up the nerve to try ear or mouth yet.

Am I right in thinking that any meter reading is an approximation, and there is no way to really get an accurate number outside of a vet's office? And for the most part, this works for most dogs (and people)?

Thanks for the advice...this forum has been a godsend. Thanks for all those who maintain and contribute!

Mary

[jesse girl]

Re: Ollie's journey

Jesse has used a human meter for he 6.5 years being diabetic

I did do a comparison early on with a vets lab analyzer ( not another handheld ) and that particular meter read higher at the higher range and was quite close at a lower range . I dont use that meter anymore It was a bit expensive

I cant recommend jesses meter because what works for jesse may not work for others . You just have to experiment and find a meter your comfortable with . the one touch ultra has a good track record but needs a larger blood sample . I have used it and has compared well with jesses meter

High sugar tested you have to take with a grain of salt it could be off by a 100 points or more and usually i think with very high numbers with insulin given the meter maybe reading higher but thats my opinion

As long as jesse shows no symptoms of the disease and pretty much normal and her meter reads within 100 to 250 points i am very happy taking the numbers as is from her human meter

[amydunn19]

The thing with meters and getting exact numbers is this: when you use a meter, you are getting an approximation. I always felt it was much more beneficial to use that number for what it was and think of the numbers as they fell into a range. You get a feel for how your dog reacts with certain numbers. Maggie had a hypoglycemic seizure and measured in the 20's on my human meter. Luckily, she survived it but it gave me a rather definite reference point. I also learned that all meters are more accurate in lower ranges.

Blood sugar is changing constantly - if you checked it every five minutes, you would get different numbers. I had to learn that as much as it is frustrating and you try to control it, there is a limit to what you can do. You have to learn to be comfortable with a situation that you may not grasp fully. If our dogs could tell us when they felt terrible, then it would be easy. So, you just use the meter to learn tendencies and observe. I think the object is to make the connection.

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

Ok, here are Ollie's numbers from yesterday (21 units):

9 am: 443

11:15 am: 481

1pm: 456

4:15: 392

It's good to see these numbers still going down. We are 2 doses away from emptying the current insulin bottle. I was thinking we should wait to increase his dose until we open a new bottle and retest. It seems the potency of the insulin can decrease in your fridge, and it's been 5 weeks or so since we opened this bottle.

So should we increase by 1 unit at this point, or continue with 2?

Thanks for the advice.

[jesse girl]

Re: Ollie's journey

well if you are seeing higher stable sugar within a curve raising the dose maybe prudent

sometimes you can correlate physical symptoms with dose adjustments if raising sees a more perkier feeling good kind a pup over lethargic which may point that you are going in a positive direction

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

We tested Ollie again yesterday. He's at 23 units. Unfortunately, the numbers are higher than the last time:

9:45 am: 397

2:15 pm: 520

6:30 pm: 593

We'll increase another unit, but I have a few questions I hope some of you can answer.

Is there a point at which you are giving so many units that you assume the insulin is not working? I noticed the syringe only goes up to 30.

Why does his curve seem to be higher right before feeding time (7:30pm)?

He weighs about 60-65 lbs. He seems to be getting better: he's increasingly spunky, his neuropathy is decreasing (he even jumped on the bed last two days!) and his appetite is good. He's lost a lot of abdominal fat, and is even looking better.


Thanks for the help.

Mary

[jesse girl]

Re: Ollie's journey

A 65 pound dog could get up to 65 units if still have elevated numbers would be resistant to that insulin

Are you doing complete curves to determine dose adjustments? the numbers you posted are helpful but not complete for dose adjustments my jesse started from 500 at fasting dropped to 70 in 3 hours and back up to 500 at hour 6

so if we only tested at fasting and at hour 6 we would have continued to raise the dose and actually we would have been going in the wrong direction

If you get to 30 units that's not a huge dose . if you go past that dose then your just have to get syringes with higher capacity .

Some forum members have switched to levemir who were on large doses of other insulins with not good results . its 4 times as potent so you need allot less insulin with levemir . I dont think your at that point but its nice to have options .

glad he seems to be feeling better thats positive

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

Thanks so much for that information. I had no idea doses could get that big.

So, what would be a complete curve?

Mary

[tonyr]

Re: Ollie's journey

Check out post 161 under Angus the Westie for an example.
Check blood before meals then every 2hrs till the next injection,
Include all times of exercise and treats if any given to give a full picture.