Our sweet Vinny is an angel, July 27, 2018

[Monsters Momma]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Ok, so Vinny's curve on Sunday was...

6am 326 before food or insulin
8am 409
10am 338
12pm 232
2pm 249
4 pm 281
6 pm 172 before food or insulin

He isn't acting any different with the higher numbers, but I just don't get how we raised his insulin and his numbers go whacky.

I guess I shouldn't say he doesn't act any differently...he has been acting differently ever since his diagnosis. With frequent vet visits, us poking him to take his blood or give him his insulin, we now have a dog that wants to be loved on all the time...by everyone! It used to just be Daddy that got to love on him, and Mommy that would get up to feed, water or let him out. Or at least it seemed that way. He's not demanding about those things like he is about getting some love!

He does seem more timid now...like he's going to get into trouble for something. And he won't go off the porch to our back yard about 50% of time unless one of us goes outside too. However, if anyone comes to the front door...he scares the...you know...out of them since he's black and you don't see him running at the door! I swear one of these days he's going to go right through the glass!

Anyway...do you make anything out of all of this and do you have any suggestions??
Mel

[Abby's Mom]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Just curious, if his reading in the evening continue to level out. You mentioned that this curve is from Sunday, but you may want to do another this weekend.

I had found that it would take a good week for Abby to settle down with a dose change/food change/"anything" change.

Also, pick a 'normal' day. You don't want to be doing a curve on an off day when they may be out of their normal routine.

Barb

[Monsters Momma]

Re: My Monster Vinny

A normal day is when we aren't home Barb! Weekends are the exception around here. We'll have to try again this weekend.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Well that is a normal day, a weekend. At least your readings are consistently non-normal.

Barb

[peggy0]

Re: My Monster Vinny

forbins numbers were always like this when he was on vetsulin. When I switched him to humulin he leveled out. I could never get him consistent with vetsulin for some reason. Other dogs do great with it.

[Judi]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Maybe a larger dose at night since he is only sleeping?

Just throwing it out there.

poor big baby wanting extra loving. give him some from me too

[Monsters Momma]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Ok, I am extremely confused about a lot of things! First, increasing Vinny's insulin should have made his numbers go down, right? Well, here's his number on July 12:

17 units BID
6 am 199 (before food and insulin)
8 am 190
10 am 199 AT2 and 107 Prime
12 pm 229
2 pm 192 AT2 and 132 Prime
4 pm 205 (vet AT) 246 (our AT2) 209 (our Prime
6 pm 236

Now, July 26 (AT2) 18 units BID
6 am 213 (before food and insulin)
7:45 am 146
10 am 284
12:30 pm 274
2:30 pm 283
5:30 pm 300 (fed early because we were going out)

I left a message for the vet about those numbers...what do you make of it?

I tested him midday yesterday and he was 183, today...283.

Second, neuropathy (sp?). Vinny's back leg's seem to be a little weak sometimes, but not often. Also there's the occasional limp when he gets up from laying down for awhile. Is all of this connected to neuropathy? Can someone explain what causes this?

Obviously, I haven't gotten all of this down yet!
Mel

[Eddie]

Re: My Monster Vinny

If those were our numbers I would not be especially worried. So many factors can affect them (exercise, heat, any extra bits of food they find, general excitement etc etc) and none of them are terrible. I know you'd expect them to go down a bit with the higher dose but some days they don't do what you expect. Sorry that's not very helpful! I'm sure someone else will have a more insightful analysis.

Eddie had bad neuropathy and it was as if his whole back end had gone numb including his tail. Your Vinny may have a bit of that too. When Eddie gets very high numbers now I sometimes notice his back leg looking slightly as if it is getting left behind- very slight so you'd hardly spot it. I don't know the science for why it happens but it does seem to be intimately related to their BG levels and it resolved as we got Eddie's numbers better. We did also give him B12 Methyl (easy to find online) as there is a study which suggests that might help. We gave him a lot of it when he was bad but of course you can't tell if it did any good or not.
Antonia

[momofdecker]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Second, neuropathy (sp?). Vinny's back leg's seem to be a little weak sometimes, but not often. Also there's the occasional limp when he gets up from laying down for awhile. Is all of this connected to neuropathy? Can someone explain what causes this?

Obviously, I haven't gotten all of this down yet!
Mel

Mel,
I'm not sure what you are describing would be caused by neuropathy. My understanding of neuropathy is that it is more of a numbness (dragging of legs). If Vinny is limping I'd be inclined to think there is pain of some sorts involved. And if there is pain, there is a chance that could be impacting his bg levels. We could never tell if Decker was in pain or not. He was pretty high strung and could flip on a dime if he were so inclined. His GP vet had evalauted his rear legs many times and did note there was weakness and that he was off balance. She never saw how bad his front legs had gotten until after he'd been to the neurologist. But she never felt he was in pain.

The neurologist prescribed gabbapentin and his insulin needs dropped from 5u levemir to 4.5 pretty quickly. It led us to believe he may have been experiencing some level of pain.

There is cosequin you could try with Vinny. It's meant to be more of a joint supplement. If Vinny is having hip and/or knee pain or maybe even a limited amount of arthritis, the cosequin may help. Might be worth having a vet evaluate as well.

We tried the human grade glucosamine with Decker and saw an immediate rise in bg. We bought cosequin through his vet office and never saw any impact on bg. Have since learned that you can buy it at Petco, Petsmart, BJ's Wholesale Club, etc... Just bought a large bottle for Kinser (132 tablets), who is starting to show signs of arthritis, at BJ's for around 30.00. By far the least expensive place around us. Cosequin has a loading period. Vinny would probably get two tablets in the morning and one at night for a period of four to six weeks and then you'd reduce to one tablet in the morning and one at night. Kinser is quite picky about meds but he eats the cosequin right along with his food. Unlike his allergy meds which he is known to cheek and spit out near the door when we are not looking !

[CraigM]

Re: My Monster Vinny

+1 to Eddie / Antonia's comment. Daily variance was probably at play. Even when I get a "good" curve I try to remember that it was just one curve and the next day could be higher / lower (hopefully not by too much) I think it may have been Natalie who likes to remind us that BG isn't like a thermostat where if you move the temperature setting up, you will always get warmer.

Also, going from 17 to 18 units is a small increase, less than 6%. I would have done the same thing, or possibly have only increased by 1/2 unit because you did have numbers in the 100s on 7-12 . It's really fun, isn't it?!

Craig

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Hey Mel, Craig, s theory of adjusting by half a unit looks good.

See what your vet thinks about decreasing 1/2 unit to 17 1/2?

Mo

[CraigM]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Hey Mel, Craig, s theory of adjusting by half a unit looks good.

See what your vet thinks about decreasing 1/2 unit to 17 1/2?

Mo

I wasn't suggesting dropping to 17.5, just that I might not have gone up a whole unit because of the several numbers in the 100s. I'd give the 18 a try, but monitor.

Craig

[Monsters Momma]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Hey Mel, Craig, s theory of adjusting by half a unit looks good.

See what your vet thinks about decreasing 1/2 unit to 17 1/2?

Mo

We did go up by 1/2 a unit at first, here's the curve for 17 1/2.

6 am 326 (before food and insulin)
10 am 409
12 pm 338
2 pm 232
4 pm 281
6 pm 172 (before food and insulin)

We waited a week between increasing from 17 to 17 1/2 and 17 1/2 to 18.

So, my inclination is to go back to 17...but that makes no sense with what I know about insulin...which isn't as much as all of you here.

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: My Monster Vinny

The curve on 17 units looked good.

It might be Vinny was honeymooning, when that is over the numbers will rise.

Theirs nothing to support this

Did the vet get back to you?

Maybe give it another 7 days, do a curve

Mo

[Monsters Momma]

Re: My Monster Vinny

Thanks Mo, that's what I was thinking. Patience is key, right?