Ollie's Over the Rainbow Bridge

[jesse girl]

Re: Ollie's journey

my theory and i see this with jesse that sometimes a dose is to much on a given day or the body just doesnt accept that dose . running higher for a few days show there is some resistance maybe due to a flood of sugar or hormones . usually seen after a few days at good lower levels

my jesse was running a bit higher lately and in response i gave her more insulin which led to higher numbers. reduced the other day and things settled down

jesse seems to only accept a certain amount of insulin at lower levels . I actually got to give her 2 spit doses in the evening because i cant give her a full dose of insulin at mealtime . it causes her to spike so i give her 2 smaller doses one at meal the other a couple hours later

now if she is higher i can give more insulin without it spiking maybe the body recognize the higher levels and let injected insulin clear the excess sugar . there is more going on at a biological level than is fully understood

i would recommend holding the dose or even drop it down a bit even if numbers run a bit higher give the body time to accept the dose even if you have to put the meter down which you want to do

[crose0056]

Re: Ollie's journey

I don't sweat the numbers much. The other day at what I would think would be Shanas low point it was like 567.... what the heck... next reading was fine. My vet told me that dogs don't have an insulin pump like humans do and she was very satisfied with her readings. We are now at 12u twice daily. I will keep that for several weeks and keep testing at my normal times. I think also she is getting very close to being regulated. Carol

[amydunn19]

If you go up and down with the dose, it is hard to keep blood sugar steady. I would keep the dose the same for at least five days, and don't do any increases, do a curve and look at the results. Reacting to high numbers can get you on a roller coaster and it doesn't help to try to help find out why the numbers are going up. For example, with Maggie, I would usually suspect an infection first so instead of treating the high blood sugar, I would want to start treating the infection asap. Sometimes, they just go through some high numbers, with no real explanation and then they drop back down just fine. If the numbers stabilize, then go back up and stay up, your dose may not be correct and the increase may be needed. You play detective all the time to get at the "why" - not easy to figure out but worth the time and effort.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Ollie's journey

Like the others have noted, I wouldn't sweat a brief blip in blood sugar and wouldn't change the insulin dose for a couple of days at least to see if it comes back down on its own.

It's almost laughable that we take the kind of complex body system of insulin production and blood sugar and replace it with two shots of a set amount of insulin a day... it shouldn't work really. But it does, well enough.

So many things affect blood sugar... digestion, level of activity, absorption of the insulin, air temperature, infections, allergies, inflammation, stress, various chemical levels in the body. It's a really complicated system and just doesn't work at all like a thermostat where you set the dose and things stay pretty even.

I would tend not to routinely drive the blood sugar down below 100. Dogs can have fabulous lives with basically no impact from the diabetes with blood sugar between 100 and 250. That leaves you with a cushion for the days when the swirl of stuff that affects blood sugar leaves it lower than normal.

Now, if after three days, the blood sugar remains persistently worrisomely high - 400 and above say - throughout the day, then you want to consider why it's happening. An increase in dose may be appropriate but not without looking for the cause.

Your dog's blood sugar may occasionally shoot up for a few days and then come back down with no intervention on your part. In which case it's just your dog's version of diabetes and not necessarily anything to be concerned about if other causes have been ruled out.

Natalie

[oliversparents]

Re: Ollie's journey

Thanks everyone...things seem to be more stable now that we aren't being so reactive by changing the dose.

[jesse girl]

Re: Ollie's journey

thats good news

hope for continued success

[oliversparents]

Mysterious complications

Hi everyone. It's been awhile since I wrote. Oliver has been regulated for nearly a year now, and is at 20 units 2x daily. He's also hypothyroid, and medicated for that. In general, things are great...he is peppy, eating, drinking normally, going for walks, etc.

But in the last few weeks he has been sick several times, and it seems to be increasing in frequency. First time he just threw up. The second time he roamed the yard for hours desperately looking for and eating grass, and eventually threw up. That time he also had some abdominal distress, which lasted a few hours and then resolved.

Last night, just before he ate dinner, he began searching for grass, and licking the floor frequently. His blood sugar was 86...I even gave him a little honey, thinking it he was having a low. Then he ate his dinner eagerly and got his insulin. He continued to search for and eat grass for about 3-4 hours. His distress seemed to be more in the throat, since he was coughing, and his stomach never heaved nor did he throw up. Sometimes spittle would come out, but it looked normal.

This distress seemed to come in waves about 10-15 minutes apart, so he didn't relax for hours. He never did throw up, but the intensity seemed to decrease with time, and he finally slept at about midnight. Nothing was caught in his throat...I've seen that a couple of times and this wasn't it.

By the way this has always happened at dinnertime, never breakfast. This morning he seems normal again.

It almost seemed like acid reflux or some fluid draining into his mouth cavity...but who knows.

Does anyone have any clues as to what this could be?

Thanks so much,

Mary

[MikeMurphy]

Re: Mysterious complications

Hi Mary,

My Lily was eating grass and throwing up a couple of years ago and it turned out to be pancreatitis. We changed to a low fat diet and she hasn’t had pancreatitis since then. However, every now and then she will eat grass and get an upset stomach. When this happens, I give her a Pepcid AC and that settles her stomach.

[Raysaint]

Re: Mysterious complications

Yes, get your vet to do the test for pancreatitis asap. It's a simple blood test, don't let the vet just say " he doesn't seem to show symptoms."
Insist on the test.

[Scooterspal]

Re: Mysterious complications

...But in the last few weeks he has been sick several times, and it seems to be increasing in frequency. First time he just threw up. The second time he roamed the yard for hours desperately looking for and eating grass, and eventually threw up. That time he also had some abdominal distress, which lasted a few hours and then resolved.

If you get him to lie still, put your head to his stomach. Listen for gurgling or boing, boing sounds. That would mean acid is dripping into his stomach. Pepcid AC, given based on weight, will help (as Mike suggested) as well as Flagyl (metronidazole). Any pharmacy carries Flagyl for cheap, but you will need a script.

IBD (inflammatory bowel disease) is also a possibility, if other causes are ruled out.

Make sure he is not getting into things outside. Just the slightest piece of crud ingested will give Scooter a bad day. I need to watch him very carefully on our walks. He's a major rooter.

Consider adding old fashion Quaker oats to his food each meal, if the vet approves. A probiotic might be a good investment to get his system back on track once things are sorted out. The human kind works fine. Don't get sold a high-priced pet version. Totally not needed and a waste of $$.

[oliversparents]

Re: Mysterious complications

Thanks everyone, for your comments.

Our vet recommended Pepcid AC, one tablet per occurrence or once daily as a preventative. It happened the other night, and we gave him one. It did seem to shorten the time of the event and he was fine afterwards. We've also switched him to a lowfat food, gradually.

Next time he's at the vet, we'll do that pancreatitis test. Otherwise, he's happy and peppy.

I'll let you know if anything else develops.

Mary

[oliversparents]

Re: Mysterious complications

Hi everyone. Just an update on Ollie.

We have been giving him one Pepcid 30 minutes prior to his dinner every day. He has not had any repeat incidences of frantic licking/eating grass. It's been about 4 weeks, so this seems to be working!

He also used to cough vigorously and regularly, but that is happening much less often now.

We still have not had a pancreatitis test. Hopefully all of this was just acid reflux or something like it.

Thanks so much for your support. Have a wonderful holiday.

Mary

[jesse girl]

Re: Mysterious complications

thanks for the update and glad things are a bit better

[amydunn19]

Re: Mysterious complications

The great thing about Pepcid is you can keep them on it all the time. It was a regular addition to Maggie’s routine. If you do have any other episodes, I do recommend the pancreatitis test. It doesn’t require a full panel. If there is pancreatitis, you can head it off before it turns into a life threatening situation.

[oliversparents]

Ollie in decline?

I haven't posted in a long while, so here's a brief summary:


Ollie is a lab mix who was diagnosed 2.5 years ago when he was 11. He had non-treatable glaucoma and had his eyes removed. He (and we) have had great success in the past 2.5 years regulating his insulin, and he's done very well being blind. We feel like old pros now. Gradually, he has been aging and getting less and mobile, and losing his hearing. His appetite has always been good.


Now he seems to be going downhill more rapidly. He has only eaten about 1/3-1/2 of his meals for the last week, and we have adjusted his insulin accordingly. His blood sugar levels have been fine. He is fairly listless. There does not seem to be any tooth soreness. We have changed his food and it seemed to help a little. He does not seem to be in pain.



We are not rushing him to the vet for a variety of reasons. None of them are because we do not love and cherish him! Please hear me out:
1. The closest vet is 2 hours away.
2. The 2 hr away vet will refer us to a vet 5 hours from us.
3. We do not have a lot of money. Just the trip to the vet and any overnight stays would be a lot for us, not to mention the vet fees.


So, sad as it is to say, we are thinking these might be the start of Ollie's last days. His quality of life has been greatly reduced over the past winter, and it really does feel like this decline is quite natural and acceptable.


So two things:



1. If it had not been for this forum, Ollie would not have lived past his diagnosis, so a great big thank you and hugs to everyone who makes this possible. We feel like we have come a long way, and have been able to enjoy this awesome dog for years beyond his normal life expectancy.


2. I am going to try eggs and rice for his food tonight. Is there anything else we could be doing? I'm thinking that just giving him straight broth (only) would not be good with insulin, since it will travel through his system rapidly. So, I'm trying to stick with solid food. Any thoughts?