Kwiggles' Joe has passed

[Wylie's Mom]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,
Not to worry you, but my dog loaded in 3 days and I now think he didn't show any signs. His water consumption went down to the targeted number, but his water consumption varies alot and he had hit that number on occasion before he ever started lysodren. The temperature outside had dropped significantly that day and I wasn't sure at the time if the decrease in water consumption was due to the weather or due to the Lysodren load. Since I wasn't sure, as they say here..."if in doubt, stop loading" and that's what I did. He stimmed nicely afterwards and I think it was just dumb luck - because I now believe the drop in water consumption had to do with the weather, meaning there was no sign. Since then, his water consumption has varied by as much as 6 cups!

Also, my dog has always had a good appetite (I got him when he was 2-1/2y.o.). From what I know of my dog, he has to been incredibly ill for his appetite to slow down or stop. If you believe Joe's appetite has increased with the onset of Cushing's, great; but if Joe is like Wylie, had the appetite well before Cushing's, I wouldn't be too suprised if you don't see early signs of being loaded. This is why I asked if you had plans of stopping at a pre-determined point. I don't think your situation would be similar to mine on two points: 1) Wylie was 76 lbs when we loaded and as Sharon had said, bigger dogs generally load quicker and 2) Wylie's loading dose was about 43mg/kg. So for these two reasons, Joe would probably take longer to load.

Is Joe's cushing's pituitary or adreanal?

-Susy

[Kwiggles]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hello everybody, I'm feeling in need of a bit of hand-holding here :

Joe is now on Day 6 of loading and I am getting a bit anxious. My instructions from the vet are: if he shows signs of loading being complete, I am to stop Lysodren immediately and call the vet. If no signs, I am to continue with the Lysodren through day 8 (Sunday), then stop and bring him in for testing.

I spoke to the vet today and questioned him closely about the water consumption (Joe has dropped only very slightly from around 3000 ml/day to around 2400 ml/day). He said that is not a reliable indicator as many dogs' drinking stays high and continues to drop slowly even after loading is complete. He said appetite is the more reliable indicator.

As Susy said with her dog, Joe has always (even way before Cushings) had a big appetite, always been a fast eater and always cleaned his plate completely. This morning he paused mid-meal to swallow and lick his lips- he does that sometimes anyway, then he dove back in , finished the food, licked the bowl and looked around for more. Might 'the sign' be something as subtle as that? Right now I am starting to feel a bit wobbly in my confidence that I will know when is the right time.

Everyone says 'you will know' and I was sure I would, but now I'm questioning myself

(Susy, you asked if Joe's diagnosis is pituitary or adrenal- despite extensive testing, the answer to that is still ambiguous. Even an ultrasound was unable to clearly visualize both adrenals and the blood tests were borderline, but there is no question he has Cushings- The test results are detailed in my long post near the beginning of this thread.)

Another frustration for me is that my only computer access is here at work and I will be leaving in a few minutes. I will try to pop in over the weekend and see if anybody has any ideas or comments.

Thanks everybody for being there (& wish us luck)
Karen & Joe

[Kwiggles]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi again- Susy, I meant to ask: Since it sounds like Wylie loaded in 3 days and showed no signs, did you have it pre-arranged with your vet to stop Lysodren after 3 days?

[Squirt's Mom]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

A golden rule around here when loading is, when it doubt, stop the Lyso and have the pup tested. As Sharon (I think) said, you can't take the pill back once it is given but skipping a dose or two won't cause a problem if Joe's test says he isn't quite loaded. So if you are concerned that the "look up and lip lick" mean something, stop and call for an ACTH.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[Wylie's Mom]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

Since his water consumption had decreased - I wasn't sure at the time if it was due to the weather or due to the Lysodren load. Since I wasn't sure..."if in doubt, stop loading", so I stopped. Only afterwards, seeing more of his varied drinking levels, did I conclude that the lowered consumption for that particular day was probably not due to the Lyso.

Anyway, you have a doubt, so I would stop the dosing and get a stim, maybe on Monday. Lyso will keep working about 48 hours after the last dose - So I think it would be better to get a stim on Monday, not tomorrow, to get a true read.

-Susy

[forscooter]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

My Scooter loaded in 3 days but really I should have stopped in 2 days...or maybe it was sooner than that..my memory is fading! But all he did was hesitate the tiniest little bit. And he was on the very low end when I did take him in. The vet thought I called it too early but agreed it was better to check.

With Bailey, he loaded in 2 days, and was a perfect 2.5 on his stim. Again, a tiny tiny hesitation. But learning my lesson from Scooter, I stopped.

So, what I tell people is there is no "rule". Go with your gut! You know your pup best and when something says, this may be it, listen to it! Worst case, you continue to load. You won't lose any ground.

If I hadn't listened to my gut, I would have overloaded both my pups.

Keep us posted!
Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

[barney's mom]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi, I've been following Kwiggles progress, and I was wondering how the loading process was going?

[Kwiggles]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hello all,

Checking in on Saturday afternoon, day 7 of loading.

Having a crisis of confidence, I went home last night and dragged out all the information I had collected on Lysodren loading and read over the whole stack, giving most weight to my vet's detailed instructions.

Then with all that info spinning around in my head, I went with my gut and decided that Joe was not yet showing signs of loading so have continued with the Lysodren.

The clincher was when I asked myself, if I was just watching Joe eat and didn't know he was on Lysodren, would I think his appetite was same as usual (i.e., usual for the past few months)? And I had to say, yes- same as usual. So I decided to go with that.

I think I made the right decision; he is still eating enthusiastically, seems to be feeling fine and water consumption still stuck at around 2.5 liters. No diarrhea or vomiting, still happy to go for a 2 mile walk every day, no weakness or lethargy.

I'm finding there is maybe more art than science to this. But I feel good with my decision, so will stick with it through tomorrow (unless of course he shows signs otherwise).

'Go with your gut' is good advice- thank you. (And thanks to everyone else who has offered advice and support- it has been invaluable to me).

Oh, can't wait for this to be over

[barney's mom]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,
I feel your pain. Loading my dog with Lysodren was one of the most unpleasant anxiety laden activities I have ever experienced. But the good news is that this is day 7 and if things continue with no signs of loading you only have one more pill to give before a stim test. At least you will know what progress you have made.
My dog loaded in 7 days. My instructions were to give the meds for 7 days and then stop and bring him in for a stim. After 7 days there were no signs of being loaded and then on day 8 his drinking lessened and his appetite dropped. His numbers were perfect.
As long as you know the signs and symptoms to look for, and you are in tune with your pet and paying attention, you will be just fine
That said, I pray I never have to go through it again!

[Squirt's Mom]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

Since Joe has shown no signs of being loaded, or overloaded thank goodness!, I would say you are on the right track. You're doing a really good job of listening to your gut and you are to be commended for backing that up with the documentation you have on what to look for as he loads. Keep up the good work! Joe is lucky to have such a diligent mom!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

[Kwiggles]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi again all,

Well, we made it through the weekend without incident and are through with Lysodren (for now...). As of Saturday PM, Joe was still not showing any signs of loading being complete so I gave him his evening dose with his dinner, which he gobbled up as usual. But Saturday night he was very restless, couldn't get comfortable, and kept us both awake most of the night.

Sunday morning he seemed fine and I gave him the first half of his breakfast, which he gobbled down. So then I agonized over what to do- continue Lysodren or not? I decided to split the difference and give him just the morning dose (don't ask me why- not logical maybe but that's what I did).

I called the vet this morning and we discussed whether to continue him another 2 days, and finally decided no more Lysodren and I will bring him in tomorrow (Tuesday) for a stim test. So that's the plan.

And I think maybe just by dumb luck we might have hit it right because this morning, he seemed just a little less eager for his breakfast and eating just a tad slower.

Oh boy, I sure hope this is it (tentative sigh of relief...)

Thanks again everybody for your support- you are the best! (and keep fingers crossed for good numbers on tomorrow's stim test!)

Karen & Joe

[frijole]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi there! I'm a lysodren mom too so I understand how scary loading can be but I think you did the right thing and will keep my fingers crossed for your test. Also I just wanted to let you know that the restlessness is very common with cush dogs. Cortisol makes you a little hyper. Many of us have given our dogs melatonin to help them sleep. I get them at GNC and they are tiny little pills (3 mg I believe) and I cut mine in half for my 16 lb schnauzer. People that I know that have taken them say it isn't not at all like a sleeping pill/drug thing but rather a chill pill.. just relaxes them. I give them to my other dog on 4th of July and during lightening storms. She sleeps. Let us know how the test goes. Kim

[LuvMyMunchie]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

I called the vet this morning and we discussed whether to continue him another 2 days, and finally decided no more Lysodren and I will bring him in tomorrow (Tuesday) for a stim test. So that's the plan.

Glad the weekend went well. Sounds like a good plan to me!!! Most definitely keeping my fingers crossed for good numbers on Joe's stim test tomorrow.

Louise & Munchie

[Wylie's Mom]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

I have my fingers crossed, too!!

-Susy

[Lulusmom]

Re: Kwiggles' Joe is starting lysodren

Hi Karen,

Mom's always know best and sounds like you know your Joe....I think you called it right. Fingers and paws are crossed here hoping that Joe's stim test results are music to your ears.

Glynda