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  #41  
Old 02-28-2009, 11:05 AM
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Margaret Boyle Margaret Boyle is offline
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Natalie I had found Chris's video you make it look so easy I have done plenty on humans but not dogs. Chris never even flinched he was lovely and he looked so relaxed.

THANKS
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  #42  
Old 02-28-2009, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Margaret,
I'm sorry you have to go through another culture but definitely need to know Lucy is in the clear. I did some research online and read that one of the most common UTIs in horses is e.coli. You said your vet told you Lucy's UTI was common to horses, so I'm taking a guess here. I've read this is actually the most prevelant UTI out there for people, dogs, etc.

The cranberry powder you are using is good. The ingredient in it that helps keep the bacteria from adhering to the bladder wall is D-Mannose. D-Mannose is a simple sugar that is related to glucose but is processed differently by the body. It goes straight to the bladder where the bacteria prefer to bind to the D-Mannose than the bladder wall.

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia:
"90% of mannose ingested is excreted unconverted into the urine within 30 - 60 minutes, with 99% of the remainder being excreted within the following 8 hours. There is no significant increase in blood-glucose levels during this time." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Mannose

I have not seen a rise in Ali's blood sugar using this. I use a combination of D-Mannose and cranberry powder for this reason:

"Although D-mannose is found in cranberries, cranberries donít contain enough of the sugar to have the same effect. At the same time, cranberry extract contains proanthocyanidins that also prevent E. coli from adhering to the urethra and bladder.5 Cranberry extract also has a potent immune-stimulating effect. The two, when taken together, produce a beneficial synergistic effect on the urinary tract system." http://www.smart-publications.com/ur.../d-mannose.php

Now when she's had an infection, I don't use this in place of antibiotics. But definitely keep her on this for prevention/help eliminate the bacteria. The holistic vet I consult with approved this dosing advice: 30mg/lb of dog twice a day. So if Lucy's 22 lbs, that's 660mg twice a day. I buy mine in powder form and measure it out.

Now the gal I told you I was corresponding with just gave me some additional information. Her dogs weigh between 19-24lbs. She gets the D-Mannose in 500mg capsules and sprinkles one over their food. During an infection, she does this 4-5 times per day. Her info came from a chat forum with a doctor from New Zealand who was part of a control group study on the effectiveness of D-Mannose. For maintenance, she does this once, last thing of the day after they've been out to potty so it stays in the bladder longer over night. The 4-5 times a day during an infection makes sense since most of it is excreted every time they potty anyway.

I've stuck to twice a day maintenance dose only because it has been working for us so far. But if she has another infection I will increase the frequency.

Do you know what the pH of Lucy's urine is? You can ask the vet what is was on her last urinalysis report. Has she ever had crystals or oxalates? These can contribute to ongoing infections. I can't seem to lower Ali's pH and it was suggested I get an ultrasound done next time we go in to see if she has some small stones/sand that is keeping her urine more neutral.

One more thing is pushing fluids. If Lucy doesn't drink much water, adding some to her food could help or encouraging her to drink more throughout the day. It's such a little thing but can really help. The gal I told you about offers her dogs a tiny bit of tuna or baby food in the water to encourage drinking at intervals during the day. I can't do that with Ali as she's pretty sensitive and her blood sugar would rise, but she does drink with all 4 of her meals and that helps a lot.

Just wanted to share what we've been through in case in might work for your Lucy.

Take care,
Patty
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  #43  
Old 02-28-2009, 09:20 PM
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Boyle View Post
Hi again Rick,
Do you find it easy blood testing Lucy? she is small like my Lucy any tips would be welcome. I note that you said your Lucy is nearly blind has she got very limited sight like mine? I find it difficult on here as I do not know if I am supposed to subscribe to some of the things that are going on I am not used to Forums and posts and threads this is something new but a minefield of knowledge.

Kind regards.
My Lucy makes testing VERY easy. One of the things I do is clicker training with her meals. I hand feed her kibble to her a little at a time as rewards for "come, stay, sit, etc." One of the commands is "still." I'll hold her lip for a bit, click, reward. Hold her scruff for a bit, click, reward. I've actually started giving her injection during this process since she's distracted & knows there is more food coming. She's an enthusiastic eater, tho, and has never refused or thrown up her food.

Her tests are also pre meal. She figured out pretty quickly that after her test, she gets food. Now when I call her at "about that time" she hustles to the dog bed where I test her.

Lucy is very nearly blind. I think she can see distances but up close she walks into things. I think she can see shapes.

You are doing fine with the forum. The "one dog, one thread" makes it easy to keep track of things.


Best,

Rick
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  #44  
Old 03-01-2009, 07:55 AM
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Margaret Boyle Margaret Boyle is offline
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Rick I also have a clicker I use it more now for bringing her to me when I am out with her. My Lucy bumps into things and misses steps I think she still see's shapes as well I think this is the saddest thing about diabetes.
When I get a glucometer I will try her lip as she comes no bother for her injection and like you I use dry kibble for treats, like your Lucy she is a great eater and very seldom throws up unless she has been ill.
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  #45  
Old 03-01-2009, 08:21 AM
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Margaret Boyle Margaret Boyle is offline
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Hi Patty,
Thanks for all the information about the D-Mannose I will certainly look into this. Lucy has Cranberry Complex sugar free it has vit-c also Fructo Oligo Saccharides a prebiotic that helps the growth of friendly bacteria in the gut. I spoke to one of the nutritionists
at Natures Best where I get the Cranberry powder and she said to give her 1/4 teaspoon with her food twice a day as an adult would take 5-10grams a heaped teaspoon daily. I will see where I could get the D-Mannose they might have it!
You asked about Lucy's PH I have got multi stixs so I will test her the next time I am doing her urine I have not had any problems with PH so far. I only use the cranberry twice a day Patty.
You mentioned about fluids I don't have any problem with Lucy drinking at present due to her not being regulated. This is something I will keep my eye on though if her drinking decreases. Finally yes you are probably right about the bacteria being E-Coli I will ask him first chance I get I do know the last time he said the bacteria was mainly seen in horses but he did not say what the bacteria was. Thanks for the links and the info Patty.
Hope Ali is well.

Margaret and Lucy LOL
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  #46  
Old 03-01-2009, 11:02 AM
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Margaret Boyle Margaret Boyle is offline
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Marion just a question on your glucometer One Touch Ultra 11 how do you work out the difference in readings between the human one as opposed to the animal one?
I have no idea about this!

Thanks
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  #47  
Old 03-01-2009, 11:05 AM
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Margaret Boyle Margaret Boyle is offline
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty View Post
Margaret,
I'm sorry you have to go through another culture but definitely need to know Lucy is in the clear. I did some research online and read that one of the most common UTIs in horses is e.coli. You said your vet told you Lucy's UTI was common to horses, so I'm taking a guess here. I've read this is actually the most prevelant UTI out there for people, dogs, etc.

The cranberry powder you are using is good. The ingredient in it that helps keep the bacteria from adhering to the bladder wall is D-Mannose. D-Mannose is a simple sugar that is related to glucose but is processed differently by the body. It goes straight to the bladder where the bacteria prefer to bind to the D-Mannose than the bladder wall.

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia:
"90% of mannose ingested is excreted unconverted into the urine within 30 - 60 minutes, with 99% of the remainder being excreted within the following 8 hours. There is no significant increase in blood-glucose levels during this time." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Mannose

I have not seen a rise in Ali's blood sugar using this. I use a combination of D-Mannose and cranberry powder for this reason:

"Although D-mannose is found in cranberries, cranberries donít contain enough of the sugar to have the same effect. At the same time, cranberry extract contains proanthocyanidins that also prevent E. coli from adhering to the urethra and bladder.5 Cranberry extract also has a potent immune-stimulating effect. The two, when taken together, produce a beneficial synergistic effect on the urinary tract system." http://www.smart-publications.com/ur.../d-mannose.php

Now when she's had an infection, I don't use this in place of antibiotics. But definitely keep her on this for prevention/help eliminate the bacteria. The holistic vet I consult with approved this dosing advice: 30mg/lb of dog twice a day. So if Lucy's 22 lbs, that's 660mg twice a day. I buy mine in powder form and measure it out.

Now the gal I told you I was corresponding with just gave me some additional information. Her dogs weigh between 19-24lbs. She gets the D-Mannose in 500mg capsules and sprinkles one over their food. During an infection, she does this 4-5 times per day. Her info came from a chat forum with a doctor from New Zealand who was part of a control group study on the effectiveness of D-Mannose. For maintenance, she does this once, last thing of the day after they've been out to potty so it stays in the bladder longer over night. The 4-5 times a day during an infection makes sense since most of it is excreted every time they potty anyway.

I've stuck to twice a day maintenance dose only because it has been working for us so far. But if she has another infection I will increase the frequency.

Do you know what the pH of Lucy's urine is? You can ask the vet what is was on her last urinalysis report. Has she ever had crystals or oxalates? These can contribute to ongoing infections. I can't seem to lower Ali's pH and it was suggested I get an ultrasound done next time we go in to see if she has some small stones/sand that is keeping her urine more neutral.

One more thing is pushing fluids. If Lucy doesn't drink much water, adding some to her food could help or encouraging her to drink more throughout the day. It's such a little thing but can really help. The gal I told you about offers her dogs a tiny bit of tuna or baby food in the water to encourage drinking at intervals during the day. I can't do that with Ali as she's pretty sensitive and her blood sugar would rise, but she does drink with all 4 of her meals and that helps a lot.

Just wanted to share what we've been through in case in might work for your Lucy.

Take care,
Patty
Lucy's PH was fine Patty,will let you now about D-Mannose if I can getit
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  #48  
Old 03-01-2009, 11:21 AM
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Margaret Boyle Margaret Boyle is offline
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Boyle View Post
Thanks Natalie,
You have made me feel better I have just done Lucy's test Today she has been the same as yesterday.
6pm 3+
1pm 3+
6pm Neg
I reduced the insulin tonight to 14iu's I am desperate to do blood testing but I do not want to rock the boat meantime!
I am sorry about not being sure about the posts and threads but I am no spring chicken
65 but still very young at heart. (Ha Ha) I am hoping it is not another infection as she has to have 7 injections of Gentamicin as nothing else works for her. They say she can only have them so many times as it can affect the kidneys. So I am praying that it is not an infection.

Thanks again Natalie
Natalie an update on Lucy's urine testing

Sat 28th 6am 3+
1pm 3+
6pm neg

Sun 1st 6am 3+
1pm 3+
6.15pm Neg

I do not know what to think now!
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  #49  
Old 03-01-2009, 11:28 AM
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Cara's Mom Cara's Mom is offline
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Boyle View Post
Marion just a question on your glucometer One Touch Ultra 11 how do you work out the difference in readings between the human one as opposed to the animal one?
I have no idea about this!
Thanks
In the low readings (below 4.5) I add 1 point middle range 2 and high range 20 and up I add 1. That brings it on par with the animal meter.

HTH

P.S. I take it, you bought yourself an OneTouch?
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Last edited by Cara's Mom; 03-01-2009 at 11:29 AM. Reason: adding PS
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  #50  
Old 03-01-2009, 11:47 AM
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Patty Patty is offline
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Default Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Boyle View Post
Lucy has Cranberry Complex sugar free it has vit-c also Fructo Oligo Saccharides a prebiotic that helps the growth of friendly bacteria in the gut.
I only use the cranberry twice a day Patty.
Margaret,
That sounds good. To clarify, I would stick to the twice a day for the cranberry powder. It has the potential to lower pH and you don't want it too low. With the D-Mannose, you can use it more often.
Glad to hear Lucy's pH was within range. My vet likes to keep urine pH between 6-6.5. Ali's usually runs 7.0.

Sounds like you got a glucometer! It took me a while to get blood from my girl. I use the lip stick method as well. Once you get the hang of it, you can also take your meter into your vet's and test Lucy while they run a reading on their lab machine to compare.
Take care,
Patty
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