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Margaret and James' Wee Lucy - July 4, 2001 - May 6, 2011

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  • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

    Margaret,

    It's possible you had either too little or too much blood on the strip; when that happens, some of the meters can give you a false reading. It's also possible that the dry kibble did something about getting Lucy's bg's up, and it may also be possible she has some rebound going.

    You've done the test with the solution and the meter is fine, so we can leave that out. In order to make most dry food, there has to be more carbohydrates in in than there is in wet. Most dry food goes through what they call an extruding process; this is how they get it into the little shapes and sizes that they do. To make dry food like this means more carbs in it.

    Exercise (going for a walk, playing, etc.) mostly does bring bg's down. For some, it can make them go higher, though.

    When you give out things like the turkey, the broccoli and the cauliflower, you're handing out "treats" that don't have a lot of sugar and/or carbs in them. That means they should do little to nothing about raising bg's. They're low in calories too and that's why you see dieters all smiles about these foods.

    When someone has diabetes, all of the food needs to be "accounted" for; if more food is eaten than he/she has used insulin to cover, then there are going to be higher bg's.

    If the handful of kibble isn't a part of Lucy's meals, then it sure is possible that it made her bg's go up. When you need to schedule a "middle" meal because you're using that to fend off a low that you know will happen around the time the insulin's "peaking" (working hardest), you mostly need to "borrow" that meal by taking a little away from breakfast and dinner and that's what it's made up of.

    Let's say a dog with diabetes was to have a total daily food intake of 4 cups of dry food. You'd be splitting that as 2 for breakfast and 2 for dinner. But let's also say that this dog we're talking about has a tendency to go too low around the time his/her insulin works the hardest. So we need to take a bit to make up some type of small meal for him/her to have a bit before that insulin "peaks".

    We would take something like 1/4 cup away from the breakfast and 1/4 cup away from the dinner food to make up a "middle" meal of a total of 1/2 cup of dry food for it. That would make his/her breakfast and dinner amounts 1 3/4 cups of food at those times, and the "borrowed" middle meal being made up of a 1/4 cup from both breakfast and dinner.

    Giving him or her the 2 cups at breakfast and dinner and then giving the additional 1/2 "middle" meal food would mean higher bg's because there's more food than the diet calls for. "Borrowing" the 1/4 cup from breakfast and another 1/4 cup from dinner doesn't add more food--it just "distributes" it a little differently.

    As long as you are able to test Lucy easily now, I would try to start checking her before her meals and about 2 hours after them. I'd check her before and after any exercise like taking a walk so you can see if exercise makes her bg's go higher or lower.

    If, by doing more regular checking, you see that Lucy's going back to a low point similar to the one you saw this afternoon, then I would think about possible rebound. But if Lucy got an "extra", not part of her daily diet handful of kibble before taking a walk, then I'd believe it's the extra food which makes for the higher bg's.

    Hope this might help!

    Kathy
    Last edited by We Hope; 03-23-2009, 10:17 AM. Reason: typo

    Comment


    • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

      Margaret, hope you get things worked out soon. There seem to be so many variables at work!

      Kathy, I appreciated your explanation of how and when to allocate food. I had been wondering whether it was good to give snacks, but now I see that unless they go too low then it's best to stick to the normal routine (which for Milo is two meals a day).

      Don't want to hijack your thread here, Margaret--but that info was helpful for me. I trust that Lucy is on her way to being well-regulated. Good luck,

      Nancy
      Milo, 7 yrs. old, 60# lab mix, dx 10/08, HumulinN

      Comment


      • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

        And now I'm opening my cyber-mouth again!

        Some people find it works well for their dogs to have a pattern of 3-4 smaller meals a day rather than 2 larger ones, while others find that a meal or snack outside of the times when you give insulin, affects the insulin's action.

        When people have a big problem with post-meal spiking, they sometimes try to go with those 3-4 smaller meals. It works well for some because there's less food in the system being digested at one time which comes down to the bg's not climbing as high. People whose dogs have had pancreatitis sometimes also need to go with the many smaller meals vs two larger ones because of that problem.

        Lucky's only problem after being diagnosed with diabetes was a minor bout with colitis. When we were treating that, we took the same amount of food he was getting--total, for breakfast and dinner and divided it into 3, rather than 2 portions. While it was necessary until the colitis was cleared up, having that "middle" meal affected the action of the insulin for him. Getting back to 2 meals a day got him back on track with his bg's again.

        There are also some people who, when they know their dog will get lower from something like a walk, will give something small like a dog biscuit, to keep the low away. They do that by taking a little away from the breakfast and dinner food--doing that keeps things "even" re: what's being eaten.

        I've often thought that whoever said, "There's no such thing as a free lunch." must have had diabetes!

        Kathy

        Comment


        • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

          Kathy
          I had already written all this and my laptop shut down. Anyway here I go again. I think there must be something wrong with my meter as tonight at 5.30pm Lucy's reading was (28.6mmol) (515mg) no way Kathy as I also done a urine test she was in between 2-3+ and no ketones (she has never had ketones only when she was first DX)
          I decided to do myself and my husband who is on Warfarin and attends the Warfarin clinic and his blood is usually about (2.4mmol) tonight at 5.41pm his reading was (6.3mmol) which would never be as they try to keep it below (3).
          Then I done myself at 5.45pm and my reading was (9.1mmol) and I am usually about (6.3mmol). I am going to phone LifeScan tomorrow as everything on the meter is in range but we are getting these weird numbers.
          I could actually cry as I thought we were finally getting somewhere.
          I was confident about getting blood from Lucy now and she just lays down for me now and does not flinch.This has set me back again she just finished her antibiotics yesterday and her paw has healed well.
          It looks as though I will have to buy a new Meter but I will see what LifeScan says tomorrow. I was all set to do a curve on Sat. It is so frustrating I maybe raised her Bg tonight due to me thinking she was low and giving her some more food I do not know if it could be a bad batch of strips it makes you wonder as this is the new ones I am using and I had bought a 100.


          LOL
          Margaret & Angel Lucy July 4 2001- May 6 2011

          Comment


          • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

            Originally posted by NancyB View Post
            Margaret, hope you get things worked out soon. There seem to be so many variables at work!

            Kathy, I appreciated your explanation of how and when to allocate food. I had been wondering whether it was good to give snacks, but now I see that unless they go too low then it's best to stick to the normal routine (which for Milo is two meals a day).

            Don't want to hijack your thread here, Margaret--but that info was helpful for me. I trust that Lucy is on her way to being well-regulated. Good luck,

            Nancy
            No Nancy you are not high jacking my thread you are more than welcome
            I am just so frustrated tonight if you go into my thread you will see why.
            I only give Lucy 2 meals a day the vet said to give her some veg at midday
            but I do not give her a lot. We were actually beginning to get somewhere until
            she took the paw infection, now it has healed it's problems with the meter we are having now. Things can only get better I hope
            Margaret & Angel Lucy July 4 2001- May 6 2011

            Comment


            • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

              Margaret,

              Don't give up!

              It HAS to be either the meter or the strips and in either case, Life Scan owes you a new meter or the replacement of what might be "bad" strips. I wouldn't buy a new one until I contacted them and found out what they will do for you.

              Since you don't have diabetes, that is quite a high reading you're getting for yourself!

              Good heavens, you haven't had it a month yet!

              It's a VERY good thing you don't adjust Lucy's insulin because just imagine what could have happened if you did. It's also good that you'll contact them in the morning because if there are more strips or meters like this, there are people with diabetes getting wrong information too.

              Maybe you're too upset to see it right now, but even though this happened you DID get somewhere and that will pay off! You've learned how to do Lucy's blood testing and she's being the best girl ever when you do that--this is how you've taught her.

              Even if you did raise Lucy's bgs somewhat with some extra food, it's nothing that won't go away in a couple of days with you sticking to your doses of insulin and her routine. It's better to be safe than sorry, and thank heavens, you have nothing to be sorry about!

              What frightens me is anyone using whatever's wrong--the meter or the strips and they are adjusting insulin--either their own or someone else's on the basis of readings like this.

              If you haven't thought about this one for a while, I think it's time to do that tonight:

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...otland#Legends

              "According to legend, at some point while he was on the run during the winter of 1305-06, Bruce hid himself in a cave on Rathlin Island off the north coast of Ireland, where he observed a spider spinning a web, trying to make a connection from one area of the cave's roof to another. Each time the spider failed, it simply started all over again until it succeeded. Inspired by this, Bruce returned to inflict a series of defeats on the English, thus winning him more supporters and eventual victory. The story serves to explain the maxim: "if at first you don't succeed, try try again.""

              And like the great King who the story is about, you'll have your victory too, my friend!

              Kathy

              Comment


              • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                Did you check the code to make sure you're using the right one?

                The code changes from bottle to bottle... just a possibility.

                Otherwise, since you just started a new bottle of strips, that's the likely culprit. I am sure they will replace them.

                There was a scam a year or so ago with fake OneTouch Ultra strips... be sure to buy them from a legitimate seller too.

                Comment


                • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                  Originally posted by k9diabetes View Post
                  Did you check the code to make sure you're using the right one?

                  The code changes from bottle to bottle... just a possibility.

                  Otherwise, since you just started a new bottle of strips, that's the likely culprit. I am sure they will replace them.

                  There was a scam a year or so ago with fake OneTouch Ultra strips... be sure to buy them from a legitimate seller too.
                  I buy our strips in a quantity of 100 - so 2 vials of 50 in a single box. The first box we bought had one code chip and the same number on each vial. But the next one apparently had 2 different chip codes and I didn't realize it when I first opened it. I got some wacky numbers, re-tested and they were still wacky...double checked the codes again and...OOPS! Wrong code chip for the vial I had opened.

                  Comment


                  • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                    Margaret,
                    Don't be so hard on yourself, look how far you have come, over the years with this I have made mistakes, downed myself, all and all you learn something, you somehow just pick up and get back in the race.
                    Dolly & Niki passed 2010, 45 lb Border Collie Mix 8 yrs as diabetic, 13yrs old. Blind N 10.5 U 2 X * Dog is God spelled backwards*If there are no dogs in Heaven then when I die I want to go where they went. Niki's food Orijen & Turkey & Gr. Beans, See you at the bridge my beloved & cherished Niki, I miss you everyday

                    Comment


                    • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                      Thanks everyone I am going to put it all down in this post rather than reply to each individual person.
                      I phoned LifeScan this morning the person was very helpful and pleasant. I went through all the readings with her also checked all the meter coding and ranges which I knew was correct When I started the new strips I put the new code in also done a solution test and they were all in order. I bought my strips from Health Drop down in London they had a special offer on for a 100 strips. The person at LifeScan took the log number of the strips and also expiry date they are all the same code (25) the 10 I got along with my meter were (17) so I put in the new code of (25)
                      My husband and me had just had our dinner yesterday when I tested ours
                      she says if we had just eaten a meal this could have raised our blood sugar but to me it would not have done that so soon.
                      Anyway she does not think there is anything wrong with the meter or strips
                      she wants me to take two readings today at 2pm directly after one another.
                      She said if anyone is getting peculiar readings they should do these two tests
                      no more than 10 mins between.
                      I have also to go to my vet ASAP and do a comparison with him and if I am still getting peculiar readings she will send me a new meter. I will also phone
                      HealthDrop and say to them about the strips as they are a reputable company
                      I went on to their web site to look and they are now sold out because they were on offer I phoned the vet this morning and Henry is not back until tomorrow, but I will phone in the morning.
                      Thanks everyone for getting back to me I know we have a time span I do not know by how much! I was just a bit down but I have (dusted myself down again and will get on with it)
                      Margaret & Angel Lucy July 4 2001- May 6 2011

                      Comment


                      • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                        Originally posted by We Hope View Post
                        Margaret,

                        Don't give up!

                        It HAS to be either the meter or the strips and in either case, Life Scan owes you a new meter or the replacement of what might be "bad" strips. I wouldn't buy a new one until I contacted them and found out what they will do for you.

                        Since you don't have diabetes, that is quite a high reading you're getting for yourself!

                        Good heavens, you haven't had it a month yet!

                        It's a VERY good thing you don't adjust Lucy's insulin because just imagine what could have happened if you did. It's also good that you'll contact them in the morning because if there are more strips or meters like this, there are people with diabetes getting wrong information too.

                        Maybe you're too upset to see it right now, but even though this happened you DID get somewhere and that will pay off! You've learned how to do Lucy's blood testing and she's being the best girl ever when you do that--this is how you've taught her.

                        Even if you did raise Lucy's bgs somewhat with some extra food, it's nothing that won't go away in a couple of days with you sticking to your doses of insulin and her routine. It's better to be safe than sorry, and thank heavens, you have nothing to be sorry about!

                        What frightens me is anyone using whatever's wrong--the meter or the strips and they are adjusting insulin--either their own or someone else's on the basis of readings like this.

                        If you haven't thought about this one for a while, I think it's time to do that tonight:

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...otland#Legends

                        "According to legend, at some point while he was on the run during the winter of 1305-06, Bruce hid himself in a cave on Rathlin Island off the north coast of Ireland, where he observed a spider spinning a web, trying to make a connection from one area of the cave's roof to another. Each time the spider failed, it simply started all over again until it succeeded. Inspired by this, Bruce returned to inflict a series of defeats on the English, thus winning him more supporters and eventual victory. The story serves to explain the maxim: "if at first you don't succeed, try try again.""

                        And like the great King who the story is about, you'll have your victory too, my friend!

                        Kathy
                        Kathy
                        Your Robert the Bruce story does explain the maxim and is also very true (thank you for that)
                        No Kathy I would never have altered Lucy's insulin on that basis of peculiar numbers I would have spoken to Henry first I know I always check her urine
                        and I was doing quite well for a few days when I think about it I have been
                        urine testing for over a year. I still know the blood testing is the way to go.
                        As you say it is frightening to think some people would have altered the dose.
                        I will let you know how I get on Kathy

                        LOL
                        Margaret & Angel Lucy July 4 2001- May 6 2011

                        Comment


                        • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                          Margaret,

                          Keep up your good work!

                          This board is on GMT so I can see right away what time it is for you. In most of the US and most of Canada, you are 5-8 hours ahead of us, depending on how far west one lives in the US or Canada.

                          Let us know how things are turning out with all of this!

                          Kathy

                          Comment


                          • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                            Originally posted by We Hope View Post
                            Margaret,

                            Keep up your good work!

                            This board is on GMT so I can see right away what time it is for you. In most of the US and most of Canada, you are 5-8 hours ahead of us, depending on how far west one lives in the US or Canada.

                            Let us know how things are turning out with all of this!

                            Kathy
                            Kathy, I am back again I just thought I would post the latest readings to you
                            I honestly think it must have been a fluke yesterday.


                            Today Lucy
                            24th March 1.57pm (9.5mmol) (170mg)
                            2.04pm (9.4mmol) (170mg)




                            Me James(hubby)
                            2.08pm (6.6mmol) 3.17pm (5.4mmol)
                            (120mg) (90mg)

                            I think this is more like it Kathy when my husband has his done they test for blood clotting factors not blood sugar which is different his Bg was better than mine.
                            I am going to test Lucy premeal tonight and see what I get.When I tested James today Lucy came and sat at his feet as if to say "Hey what's going on here this should be me" I am still phoning Henry in the morning to make an appointment for comparisons.
                            I feel a bit better now I will not worry as much next time if this happens.
                            Kathy I think that was a good tip from the girl at LifeScan about the weird readings doing a test within a few mins of each other!

                            LOL
                            Margaret & Angel Lucy July 4 2001- May 6 2011

                            Comment


                            • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                              Margaret,

                              This is great for Lucy without any "tweaking" of the insulin! You both have come back to normal too.

                              All seems to have worked out just fine and agree with you about comparing what you're getting with what Henry gets.

                              Lucy's going to get into the habit of thinking every time you get the meter, it's "turkey time"!

                              Kathy

                              Comment


                              • Re: New Member Margaret and Lucy

                                Originally posted by Margaret Boyle View Post
                                Kathy, I am back again I just thought I would post the latest readings to you
                                I honestly think it must have been a fluke yesterday.


                                Today Lucy
                                24th March 1.57pm (9.5mmol) (170mg)
                                2.04pm (9.4mmol) (170mg)




                                Me James(hubby)
                                2.08pm (6.6mmol) 3.17pm (5.4mmol)
                                (120mg) (90mg)

                                I think this is more like it Kathy when my husband has his done they test for blood clotting factors not blood sugar which is different his Bg was better than mine.
                                I am going to test Lucy premeal tonight and see what I get.When I tested James today Lucy came and sat at his feet as if to say "Hey what's going on here this should be me" I am still phoning Henry in the morning to make an appointment for comparisons.
                                I feel a bit better now I will not worry as much next time if this happens.
                                Kathy I think that was a good tip from the girl at LifeScan about the weird readings doing a test within a few mins of each other!

                                LOL
                                Sorry I made a boob here Kathy I think you will work out the numbers alright
                                they have came up squiggly
                                Margaret & Angel Lucy July 4 2001- May 6 2011

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