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  #1  
Old 05-01-2020, 01:48 PM
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MisterAlan MisterAlan is offline
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Default Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Hi guys.


Cloud was diagnosed 4/28 with diabetes mellitus. He seems to have lost use of his hind legs the week end and i called in for a dog visit to his normal vet. There they did a blood work and sent me to the hospital and we found out he had diabetes. As far as his weakness in legs goes they needed more test which i cant afford, to find out whats wrong. I payed for a consult from the surgeon and he evaluated it to be ivdd, infection of disc, or other cause without the scans. I just find it weird if i missed signs of this or was the diabetes that i neglected to see caused his legs to give out or something. He was on prednisone for his chronic skin condition so the doctor assumes the prednisone was holding back his leg and spine pain but might have caused the trigger for his diabetes. Hes home at the moment resting on an orthopedic bed i bought for him. I currently aid him in getting up with a towel under his hind legs and he can move around for 1 min - 2 mins. They put him on Gabapentin 300mg capsules 2 every 8 hours so i believe this is helping with his pain for walking. The first day i had him home his breathing was fine and he slept throughout the night without any problems and seemed alert whenever he was awake. However last night his breathing started to rise and up till now he is breathing a bit harder. He is urinating normally from what i can see 2 times so far since waking up and not alot of water consumption like previously. He seems to be able to get up on his own when hes laying ontop of foam mats i had laid out in the living room however once hes on the tiles or laminate flooring he cant get back up and whines for me to help him up. Sometimes he just whines but doesnt want to move which im assuming he is depressed at how suddenly he cant move anymore like he did ,not even a week ago. He seems to be eating well the first night but now hes starting to not want to eat the food prescribed to him hes eating it decreasing at about 10% each time. Canned hills w/d 2 and 1/2 can a day. Currently i have some questions if anyone can help me out if possible thank you.
1.His eating has never been a problem but my parents spoiled him by giving him table scraps before and he still ate his own food but only after we eat. Is there anyway to make him want to eat a new diet by adding a topping to make him open up to it.
2.My parents have a hard time declining his advances when eating so i was wondering are there certains snacks or a boiled meat we can let him snack on in between his 12 hours meals. Cant give chicken due to his skin allergies.
3.His recent increased in respiratory rate is it due to his BG not being low as when i picked him up or is it him being a bit stressed due to his new problems.
4.Any foods can anyone recommend i try out that works well for diabetic dogs. I plan on getting him down to a lower weight due to his mobility problems so him eating less is okay but him eating nothing at all is a problem when 12 hours swings around.
5.His hind legs does anyone else have a problem like this? where it just so coincidentally happens at the same time.


Thank you guys for your help i will probably here for quite a while.
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Old 05-02-2020, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

My apologies for taking a little while to approve your membership. Your posts wouldn't show up until I did that.

Was his blood sugar very high when diagnosed?

Weeks at very high blood sugar can cause a temporary loss of communication over the spine that usually clears up once the blood sugar is controlled.

And lower blood sugar levels can do the same if there are other problems with the spine. The high blood sugar problem layers over those and makes them worse.

How much does he weigh?

What is his current insulin dose in units and is it once a day or twice?

Prednisone can also induce temporary diabetes and permanent diabetes. He's off that now?

Even if the diabetes is independent of the prednisone, the prednisone will raise his blood sugar.

Natalie
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Old 05-03-2020, 06:49 AM
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MisterAlan MisterAlan is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

From the report I got from the hospital the highest recorded was 488 I believe and when he was returned to me it was 159. I havenít got hold of a BG meter yet so was wondering what type I should get. Currently heís on vetsulin 7 unit twice a day. And weights 80.5 lbs. He is off prednisone now and will have to talk to the vet to see an alternative to it for his chronic skin condition. Currently heís eating and drinking normally Iíd say since I donít have a meter yet, however he seems to be panting a lot after I feed him and given his insulin. Also at nights Iím not sure if itís because I had him at the hospital and heís got anxiety from being there but he wonít sleep easily at nights now but he doesnít need to potty or drink but is just restless. Thank you for your assistance.
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Old 05-03-2020, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Hi and welcome

The dose at 7 units is a low staring dose which normally for an 80 pound dog would be about 16 units . Now seeing a number at 159 with such a low dose may point to Natalie's comment about temporary diabetes from taking the steroid . Once the steroid is removed sometimes blood sugar goes back to normal . Now the problem for you is you may not catch this because of not testing sugar at home . The uncomfortable feeling at night and the heavy breathing can point to sugar going low or going to high . They have pet meters which can be expensive for the strips which is generally the larger cost of testing . Human meter are allot cheaper depending on the brand . I have used a discount human meter for jesse for her 10 years of being diabetic and never used a pet meter.I have tried maybe 6 human meters and had similar results but its not going to be perfect and it doesnt have to be as they become more accurate at lower levels when you really need to know .

Another thing to look into with weight problems and skin condition is a missed thyroid problem and you may want to check on that as there are different tests that can miss a diagnosis depending on what you get . They say methyl b-12 can help with leg weakness . Ask any question and search the site and read read read . Education is your best way to get your dog back to normal and diabetes will not prevent that as most who have come to the forum got their dogs back to normal with some limitations and you enter a new normal . Also managing diabetes at home is not expensive .

The prescription foods seem to do well for blood sugar but some dogs get tired of it . Many do use toppers . My jesse gets a homemade human grade food so she is always happy to eat . She likes yeast flakes as her topper which is a replacement for cheese but many sprinkle Parmesan cheese maybe add some boiled chicken . You can add most anything that your dog may like as long as you keep it consistent . Most times you may want to hold off snack until regulated and you want to keep the dog motivated to eat at mealtime and once regulated you maybe able to relax that .Now its not required to feed prescription food and many dont.
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15.5 years old - 10 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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Old 05-03-2020, 08:32 AM
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MisterAlan MisterAlan is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Thanks for the quick reply’s. I forgot to mention he has thyroid problems and has been on meds for it. As far as his weight goes I’m trying to get it down to 70 to help with his mobility problems and I will look into he b 12vitamins. He seems to be full of energy now but is extremely bored and agitated due to his mobility lose so sudden. As far as feeding goes I have the hardest time in the mornings so far he isn’t interested but boy is he alert when the family starts eating. So atleast I know he has an appetite. Since he has skin problems I can’t feed him chicken because it will trigger skin problems so I was wondering if I could steam fish toppings for him and just mix in the broth with the dry food he eats. I’ve searched a lot online about homemade food and I might have to go hat route eventually because for his entire life my parents spoil him whenever I’m not home so he’s use to it and now I have to regulate him lol tempter tantrum time for atleast few months. Ive been trying to budget his new lifestyle in and I’m wondering if there’s certain sites y’all recommend I can get nice deals from on. Thank you again. As far as shots go it seems he doesn’t even care so I guess I’m lucky there ,from the stories and videos I’ve seen so far. Also is there a certain brand of BG meter that is good for me to get?

Last edited by MisterAlan; 05-03-2020 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Forgot something
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Old 05-03-2020, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Sounds like your off to a good start . Like I said I use a discount meter which is the prodigy auto code . It works for jesse but not sure about any other dog . I have used the relion meter from walmart with similar results .The one touch ultra gets good reviews and has a good track record . I have used it and had similar results to my other meters . Remember its not going to be perfect and you need to make sure you get enough blood for a sample for the meter to work correctly . Usually larger breeds are easier . I have used jesses inner lip for her entire diabetic life to get a blood sample . Practice tests could help with that even before you get a meter and lance device by just rolling up the lip and maybe wiping with a napkin .I Buy all my strips on eBay and usually get about 600 strips as quantity can save . They say the methyl version of b-12 is best but there is no set procedure on dosing . Remember it takes full curves to make dose adjustments and that is based on the lowest number in that curve

Fish is good My jesse gets canned mackerel and just loves it . I think she is the reincarnation of my cat as a child as she is more cat like than dog haha
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Jesse-26 lbs - 15.5 years old - 10 years diabetic - one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack - 3 shots of Novolin a day sometimes Novolog or r as a correction to higher sugar but that is rare. total insulin for a 24 hour period is between 8 and 10 units of NPH insulin depending on her fasting number
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Old 05-05-2020, 08:48 PM
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MisterAlan MisterAlan is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Whelp it seems i hit clouds point where he refuses to eat the premade diabetes dog diets ive set out for him and is only interested in home cooked foods. Ive started to scour the internet for recipes and how they balance it out so i really have only this option to get the guy to eat. I found one site and was wondering what you take is on it if you have time to read some of it.
http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdj...considerations
But yeah ive given him b-12 Methyl today and see how that goes as long as i have him on it. His legs seem to be getting worse and its sad seeing him like this. He seems extremly alert when its human dinner time or when hes slept enough for the moment but he is testing my patience with feeding him since i know he will eat, just not the food i buy but the food humans eat. As far as not eating my vet told me to give him 3 units instead of 7 since his BG will still go up but if he refuses again i should bring him in. I doubt my dog can hit low BG since it seems hes on such a low dose of insulin already and he is somewhat still energized but just lazing about due to the pain meds kicking in. I didnt see any stories about if other people had rear end problems for their dogs and it got worse then got better later on. If there is does anyone know when its gone beyond the point to if he can get some mobility back? Thank you again guys.
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

The challenge with his mobility is whether it's the high blood sugar that's entirely the cause, partly the cause, or not related.

Usually, diabetic neuropathy shows up only in two situations - very very high blood sugar for an extended period of time OR moderately high blood sugar that coincides with a problem with the back legs unrelated to the blood sugar.

So getting his blood sugar down will help whatever part of it is related to that.

But it's quite possible that there are other issues going on as well.

Not sure where you are located but I recommended a one-time consult with a veterinary neurologist if there is one reasonably close to you.

A veterinary neurologist can look at exactly what is and isn't happening with your dog's mobility and do some simple tests of reflexes, etc. and pinpoint likely diagnoses and where the problem is occurring.

It makes a huge difference. So, for example, diabetic neuropathy is almost almost exhibited as weakness only in the rear legs and equally weak on both sides. If there is weakness in the front legs or if one rear leg is weak and the other one is basically okay, that points away from diabetic neuropathy.

Front leg weakness indicates that the problem in the spinal cord is much further forward, such in the neck or shoulders.

Sometimes they can tell if it's likely something in the spine itself or a tumor in the brain. There are a few diseases that could be present, such as degenerative myelopathy. That doesn't get better unfortunately.

So just a consult can tell you a lot and can often pinpoint the problem or at least eliminate some things without any further imaging.

Definitely worth the investment if you can get in to a good canine neurologist.

Natalie
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Old 05-05-2020, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Looks like there's a neurology practice pretty close to you. (I can see your IP address but no one else can.)

I can't overstate how useful a veterinary neurology consult can be. They can tell so much more than a general practitioner vet and conduct tests that GP vets don't do. I've had two dogs treated by a neurologist, including our diabetic. His loss of ability to stand turned out to most likely be a mini stroke as he recovered within a few hours. The dog we have now has spinal and hip pain and we had him fully worked up including MRI.

Natalie
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Old 07-06-2020, 10:07 PM
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MisterAlan MisterAlan is offline
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Default Re: Dog diagnosed with diabetes 4/28/20

Ive been away for quite a bit because I've been busy with school and regulating my dog and figuring out all his kinks and researching and i have very good results so far thanks to you guys and your support and advice. First off my dog was panting and always nauseated for an entire month and i thought it was because i didn't have his diabetes regulated. One night he didn't sleep at all and was breathing very fast but didn't seem like he was having a hard time gaining oxygen so i took him to the pet hospital because this looked serious. Well as always when you go to a vet hospital they want 5 grand worth of scans before diagnosing anything and i couldn't fork that out because i just loaded up on his diabetic visit recently. All i got was the normal check up and a complimentary scan to check his lungs. This showed nothing and the vet said its odd because every organ doesn't seem to have any problems but Cloud just looked extremely distressed and sickly. So i told her to give him a pain killer shot and ill take him home to see if its pain or not that is causing it. The shot seemed to have given him respite and allowed him to sleep for a few hours before waking up with labored breathing but not as bad. Well i decided to start taking out medicines of my dog that he was on recently just straight cold turkey. It seemed to do the trick he was on tramadol, gabapentine, and galliprant for pain. The next 24 hours these symptoms went away pretty much 80% if not completely and it seemed i had my dog back since going to the hospital for his diabetes crisis. He was still on galliprant but it seems it didn't affect his breathing but the former 2 seem to be the culprit. Ive taken him off galliprant now and he seems to do just fine also, so it seems pain is not a big factor in my dogs condition from not being able to walk. So his heavy breathing and sickly feeling went away after taking him off those medications.

Now onto regulating. I slowly upped his dosage every week trying to get some curves to look more level. From 7-15 units was very frustrating but i took alot of advice and didn't care about the numbers too much till i had a descent nadir and routine before panicking(very hard to do for any owner with a diabetic pet i believe!) after trying everything out. Throughout May and June i have located his nadir which is 4 hours after injection pretty consistently from all my of my checks so in order to save money i just check his nadir and fasting times because i was im in a tight spot. At first 7-10 units it didn't budge much staying in the upper 400 nadir at 350s. From here as i increased i would get 400s still but the nadir would drop to the 200-150s as it went up but spike really fast to 400-450s on fasting. When i got around 12-13 i saw nadir at 80s but spike up to 350-400. So i thought to myself i seem to have found my playground for tweaking his food now after finding his nadir since this is the only thing that i can tweak for now after ruling out infections. Throughout this Cloud seemed to be a tough guy the diabetic symptoms hardly showed, no more drinking like mad and urinating but his regulation is still a mess but no symptoms. Now i did extreme research on diets for him since he cant eat chicken and basically all diabetic food is chicken based sadly so i had to home cook his meals. I read everywhere online and on this site with alot solutions but seems alot of it conflicts but works in each case for each person so i can only test and find out. I had to learn how much calories a dog his age and ideal weight should eat then break it down to two meals in grams of carbs protein fats he should intake. Currently he is eating 200 grams of cooked ground beef or turkey, 70 grams of barley cooked, 40 grams pinto beans, in each meal along with 14 units of vetsulin. This proved the best min/max solution i can find for him at the moment because his nadir75-80/fasting150-180. This is subject to change like most people say but at the moment this has been steady for 3 weeks and i think i have him regulated at the moment. Side note i had him on 15 units before and his fasting were in the 250s so i listened to the advice i read here and tried going down one unit and that seemed to do the trick for his BG.

Now onto his final problem his hind legs didn't work. Seems after a month of no improvement my parents thought he would be paralyzed for good, and the vets pretty much thought it was anything other than the diabetes causing this problem. Me on the other hand i had this gut feeling it was the diabetes causing this problem because it basically came at the same time. So i heeded everyone's advice and loaded him up with vitamin b-12 methyl i purchased from GNC because every other brand contained artificial sweetener it seems. Well these past three weeks after getting his curve regulated he started trying to walk on his own. The first week he lifted off about 6 inches on his own but that was the extent. Five days later he could get up on his own but not walk. Second week he got up made it half way down the hall. Four days later made it all the way to the back door. Two days later he could go walk back and forth from back door to his room on his own. Third week which is this past week he is able to go in and out with little to no help and is able to do his business without me aiding him from losing balance. These past two days he has regained his confidence and is walking around the house more often now and seems a bit more spunky that he can because he comes out telling me to fix his food immediately lol. It seems everything is starting to normalize for Cloud and the family the routine is set but he seems to go back to his whimsical personality now that he got his legs back haha. Also Cloud is on 500mg CBD oil and it seems to work so i will keep him on this. I am very thankful for everyone's advice and encouragement here and i don't know how to repay you back for this because odds are i probably would have euthanized him if i saw no improvements and he was still miserable but thank fully hes back to his normal self pretty much soon. I will still come in whenever i can to keep updates for you guys. Thank You Everyone at K9Diabetes.

Last edited by MisterAlan; 07-09-2020 at 10:06 PM.
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