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  #1  
Old 09-03-2014, 06:43 AM
Josie Cocker Josie Cocker is offline
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Default Re: Poll: How and Where you test your dog's blood sugar

Hi all!

I'm new here, and new to diabetes, and this is my first post. Josie is a 28# 9 year old female Cocker Spaniel and we are about a month in to managing this disease.

Her Royal Highness, Madame Josephine Queen Of All She Surveys won't allow a lot of poking and prodding...except ONE spot. Under her lip is near effortless for testing, and injections are easy between her shoulders under the skin. As long as she doesn't get "fed up" with sore lips, we're golden.

Her numbers are all over the place. Last night she hit 76 whatchamacallits. YIKES! This morning before breakfast 486 (calculated for canine)

I'm still trying to establish some semblance of a "curve" instead of a bunch of whackadoodle points on a graph that looks like a "dot to dot" drawing after a darts match.

Wish us luck!
Stan

Relion Prime Under Upper Lip several times per day (readings divided by .7)
Novolin N NPH Human (12-14 units)
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  #2  
Old 09-03-2014, 09:26 AM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

Welcome!
What is Josie eating? Are they two meals, 12 hours apart? Any snacks between the meals? Do you weigh the food, or use measuring cups?

Any other medications / medical conditions? Is she spayed?

I see you are already home blood testing (great!). Have you done a "curve", testing prior to breakfast and then about every two hours until dinner?

What insulin dosage are you injecting? Are you adjusting the dosage based on a pre-meal blood test, or trying to maintain a constant dosage? Most of us only adjust insulin after preforming a 12 hour curve, or if you see a low reading.

I'm sure others will ask other questions

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:38 AM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

I see you are injecting 12-14 units. Remember that going from 12 to 14 is a 16% increase which can be a big difference in some pups. If you go back and forth between 12 & 14ish, that can set up a yo-yo situation. For example, my Annie is affected by a 1/4 unit adjustment. I think many of us had trouble in the beginning because we adjusted too quickly and in too large of steps. Don't really know about Josie, as you have probably heard; "every dog / situation is different".

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:39 AM
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amydunn19 amydunn19 is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

I am curious about your insulin dose and how you got to that point. Based on weight, she should have been started at about 6 units. Did your vet do curves or spotchecks prior to raising. The reason I am wondering this is generally, your dog stays at the starting dose for 5-7 days, then if needed a small raise(1 unit at a time is preferable), then another settling period on that dose with no changes for 5-7 days, then another curve is done then re-evaluate the dose. If you raise another unit, then it settles 5-7 days, and so on until you get to the dose. This way, you don't pass by the dose.

Another question - is her dose 12 or 14? Do you give less if she is low?

The numbers you posted if you already adjusted since you use the Relion, seem to be a huge swing and that concerns me that she could be on too much insulin or something is out of whack with her timing of food and insulin. I would love for you to do a curve so we could look at her pattern. And of course, any info relative to her schedule, meals, etc.

Welcome to our group!
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  #5  
Old 09-03-2014, 10:07 AM
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Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

Hello Stan, welcome to you and Josie. Glad you found us.

it concerns me too that Josie is getting too much insulin causing the big drop from 486 down to 76.

12 or 14 units of nph is double the dose for Jose 28 lb weight.

please post any recent curves you have done soon please!

my 20 lb cockapoo takes 5 units of nph twice a day every 12 hours right after food. Everydog is different.

can you tell us how you got to 12 or 14 units please? Thanks


Mo
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20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2014, 05:29 AM
Josie Cocker Josie Cocker is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

Well I have much to learn.

I didn't put much effort into the first posting about Josie, because the forum wouldn't allow me to start a thread, so I answered another thread and Craig kindly carried the ball for me. Thanks man!

Josie's story:

My vet initially found Josie to be in a better state than expected from what I had told him. I didn't know why she was near death on that Friday night 4 weeks ago tomorrow, but I suggested from my observations, her kidneys were suspect. I set up a meeting with the vet, should she survive the next day. (He's darned near my best friend)

I finally connected with him on the following Sunday night after Church and he clearly diagnosed diabetes with 520mg/dl of blood sugar and HUGE numbers on the blood panel especially the one test(?) that indicated she was cannibalizing her muscle stores to survive--20x normal! He prescribed 12 units (Novolin N NPH Human) at that time, and WOWEE did she respond! Like in two days, a whole new dog!

But after a couple of weeks or so we returned for the first follow up visit. He thought her BG numbers a little high (250) for hour number two after breakfast, and her 12 units of insulin. But he said if we could stay at 250 on the upper end, and say 180 or so durning much of the day, we'd be on our way to management.

I bought a ReliOn Prime and started fiddling with testing, and found her BG to be higher than he wanted, often staying in the 300-400+ range most of the day. (But I'm a rookie at this game, and I only have the ReliOn Prime and this forum---that and the divide by .7 rough calculation.)

Last Sunday at Church our vet Jason (I sit by him in our church Orchestra--one that I direct and rehearse--he and I both are trombonists) suggested by the reports I had given him, that we should go up to 14 units, and monitor often.

She feels fine apparently. Wants to play and seems normal. This morning I woke up to let her (and me!) out, I read on the Prime 129mg/dl @ 4:41AM (~184 after dividing by .7) which was about 10 hours after supper. I went back to bed for a few more winks.

And just now I measured 87mg/dl (or ~124) and then injected 14 units and fed her breakfast.

I'm not weighing her kibble but I sure can! I am a screenprinter and have scales down to .01 grams. Ha! That oughta be close enough. Trouble is, she like treats too. So I'ma hafta rethink that, I fear. Freeze dried liver treats are her passion, but she'll eat green beans or most anything. She's not fussy about treats, but LIVER treats ring all the bells. (Off to weigh and measure....)

Back now.

She gets Solid Gold Holistic Blend twice a day (Solid Gold Health Products for pets, El Cahon, CA 92020) and I just weighed a batch. She gets just over 3/4 cup which weighs 100 grams on the money...twice a day. That comes out to 3.5 ounces. (3.5274 ounces if you are mixing ink)

I try to feed and inject at around 5:30 AM and 5:30 PM, but Wednesdays are goofed up because of Orchestra rehearsal. I feed her at 4:45 on Wednesdays. Each meal is preceeded by Blood Gucose test, then her insulin injection.

This AM she got 14 units again, but I suspect it might be on the high side. My vet said to err on the low side of the dosage, because if her glucose should drop too low, it is life-threatening. His wife (also a vet and one of my clarinet players) just lost her 55yo step sister to diabetic coma 10 days ago. She left 3 homeless Pugs and was a Pug Rescue fanatic. Double sadness.... The last of the 3 pugs is finally placed in a new home, the only good news in that whole deal.

I hope I've answered most of the questions so far. If today's curve attempt makes any sense, I'll post it tomorrow.

Thanks to all of you! This is a neat community...
Stan
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  #7  
Old 09-04-2014, 05:48 AM
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JoJo's mom JoJo's mom is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

Hi Stan
A 2 Unit increase from 12 to 14 is a very large increase. Had you or your vet done an all day curve first? Usually if a curve shows high numbers throughout the day, a 1 Unit increase is usually what is recommended.

Mary
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JoJo 6 yr old mini-schnauzer dx with diabetes over 3 years ago. Currently on 16U of Novolin N 2 x a day. AlphaTrak 2. Also Calli 3 yr old yellow lab mix.

Last edited by JoJo's mom; 09-04-2014 at 06:17 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-04-2014, 06:17 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

its possible the dose maybe ok but sometimes that larger starting dose will work ok with challenged organs from the high blood sugar and some resistance to insulin once that heals the need for insulin may need to be reduced .

now since you are seeing some better numbers you can back the dose down slowly and see if those better numbers remain . i call it working backwards to locate the least amount of insulin needed to get the best regulation you are comfortable with (that can be quite different depending on the individual and circumstances )

as you reduce you may see the larger swings in blood sugar reduce and that maybe a clue your going in the wright direction

i would do a curve every 5 days and continue to reduce the dose by a unit unless you are seeing numbers below a 100 than you may want to reduce the dose even more . once you see numbers creeping up off the lows than you may want to hold for 10 days and see if things stabilize now you can begin to adjust the dose by half units

my jesse is a 25 pound beagle and gets a total of 8 units for the entire day with 3 shots of about 2.5 units . now i am not saying thats what your pups dose should be but i would err on the side of caution .
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  #9  
Old 09-04-2014, 08:03 AM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

Nice update!
Looks like you've got things moving along nicely. As the others mentioned, going from 12 to 14 is a bigger increase than most would do in one go, but as long as you are testing you should be in good shape.

A full 12 hour curve would be helpful. This way you would have an idea what time of day Josie might have her lowest BGs. Who knows, you might find a time of day when one of those liver treats would be good to give. Another possibility for a treat would be just before a walk. Many pup's BG will fall during exercise and a little treat just before might do Josie some good - Of course you'd need to do more blood testing around the exercise to see if Josie's BGs drop or not.

Gotta run!

Craig
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2014, 09:05 AM
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Cara Sandler Cara Sandler is offline
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Default Re: Josie the Cocker

I would suggest injecting Josie after her meals instead of before. If you inject her first, and then for whatever reason she doesn't eat, you will have a medical emergency on your hands - you will need to rub some honey or syrup on her gums first and she will need to go to the vet IMMEDIATELY and remain there on IV glucose until the insulin wears off. Not fun.
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