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  #1  
Old 09-27-2009, 09:12 PM
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CraigM CraigM is offline
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Default Annie & Craig - Getting too smart!

Our Annie has been diabetic for about a year and I've reading this forum for about two months. Thought it was time to join and share our experiences.

Pets name: Annie
Breed: Lhasa Apso
Age: 8
Weight: 16 pounds
Diabetic since: June 2008
Insulin: Vetsulin - usually 6 units, twice a day
BG meter: AlphaTrak
Food: currently mix of 2 tablespoons of NATURE's RECIPE (Venison & rice) and 1.5 ounces (use a scale) of NATURE's RECIPE (Venison & Rice) dry. Have tried homemade and other commercial brands.

I'll add more info after I see if this post makes it.

Craig, Annie's dad
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Annie needs help

OK, looks I know how to make a post, so I'll continue.

We check Annie's BG, feed and inject twice a day at 8AM & 8PM. There are periods of 4 - 5 days where she stays in what I consider a good range of 100 - 225 (TELL ME IF THIS ISN'T A GOOD GOAL!). Then there are days like yesterday and today!

9-26-09 8AM = 68
9-26-09 8PM = 465
9-27-09 8AM = 61
9-27-09 8pm = 414

I was VERY surprised with the AM readings, but she was active and seemed to be doing OK. The PM readings were about 200 higher than I expected, but again she looked to be doing fine.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, I measure her food fairly closely. We don't THINK she has been finding food on her own, but would eating a little grass (she has access to the back yard) possibly cause the PM readings?

Craig
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  #3  
Old 09-27-2009, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Annie needs help

That looks like rebound to me. You may not have caught the lowest her blood sugar has been going. And blood sugar in the 60s would be enough to set off the counterregulatory response. I get extremely shaky when my blood sugar drops that low.

So I would reduce her insulin right away and see if that settles it all.

With such a small amount of insulin, dropping 1 unit may be enough to get all blood sugars back into a safe range.

Natalie
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Annie needs help

Your goal is good but I do think it likely that she wobbles and somedays that regulation is too tight. You'd want her blood sugar to never go below about 90 and she has definitely dropped lower than that.

And welcome!!! She's adorable!

Natalie
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Annie needs help

One more thing... those lows are in the morning. Have you ever had them in the evening? It could be only the night time dose is too high or it could be both.
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: Annie needs help

Craig - welcome to you and Annie. I'm glad you joined us.

Indeed, I think those numbers you show suggest the possibility of rebound, as Natalie suggested.

I notice you take readings at fasting-time - just before feeding. What about BG curves? - taking readings every couple of hours, for at least 12 hours (some do 24-hours, but I don't bother, as my dog, Kumbi, seems okay overnight).

Does your vet, or do you, at times, take curves?

I have a bunch of charts on my web site, some of which show rebound, or rebound-like, effects. If you start here, you can go through various charts by using the NEXT buttons above the main pictures on each page.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/bgcharts1.php

There are other charts on the web, also.

I think charts help to show what's going on, especially for visually-oriented humans! (me, for instance; haha!)

Another thought I had, though this would really take some work, is that, Annie, being fairly small at 16 pounds, might do well on NPH insulin, which has only one peak (time of most-intense working), rather than the two that Vetsulin has. The first, and heaviest, Vetsulin peak occurs so-many-hours (perhaps 4 to 6) after injection; it's the faster-acting component of Vetsuilin that does that; then a second peak comes along maybe, say, 11 to 14 hours after injection. This second peak would be a gentler one than the first. (My indication of timing is from memory, and may not be perfectly accurate; also, timing of the peaks varies with individual dogs.)

But without curve data, we can't really see anything about how BG levels are varying throughout the day (nor, of course, the night).

If you or your vet does curves fairly regularly, perhaps you could post some curve-numbers? And if not, I would certainly do a curve as soon as you conveniently can. If you do it, of course, you'd need to be home to do it! A curve, though, would help reveal whether rebound is in fact occurring.

Changing insulins is a job and a half, not to be undertaken lightly, and I wouldn't even raise the issue if Annie were going along really smoothly.

But if you think you might like to change, the aim would be to flatten the response to the insulin, between injections. Once a dog is well-stabilized on NPH insulin, too, the need for constant testing seems to be reduced, as long as there aren't other underlying conditions besides diabetes.

I always defer to the observations of Natalie and Kathy on this forum, so I'd certainly attend to what either has to say about Annie.

So many dogs (by no means all) do well on the human (NPH) insulins.

Vetsulin, or its counterpart elsewhere, Caninsulin), seems to do a really good job for a lot of dogs - but then, so does Novolin-NPH, or Humulin-NPH (or similar insulins) - for many dogs.

My Kumbi, who weighs about 20 pounds (right now, 19 pounds), does really well on Novolin-NPH, and he's been on that from the time of his diagnosis, 1 September, 2006.

Welcome! I'll be following Annie's story.

Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:24:34 (PDT)
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  #7  
Old 01-29-2011, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Annie - Getting too smart!

MORE STRIP TESTS!


OK, I was bored and decided to run some tests. I used my AlphaTrak meter, set to "7" as per the AlphaTrak strip vial. I tested on a single drop of blood with three different test strips; AlphaTrak, old style FreeStyle Lite, new style FreeStyle lite:

AlphaTrak = 85
Old FreeStyle Lite = 92
New FreeStyle Lite = 84

Looks like keeping the AlphaTrak meter set to "7", while using either the new, or old, FreeStyle Lite strips gives good results.

We had a production line going! My wife was switching strips in the meter, I was getting the sample on the strip and Annie was wondering what was going on with all the testing!
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Annie - Getting too smart!

Do I detect a little cabin fever?!?!?!

Natalie
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  #9  
Old 02-23-2011, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Annie - Getting too smart!

Well, Annie and I re-learned something for about the fifth time. We are slow learners!

Seems just about every time Annie has a bath, she develops ear problems. The ear problems; redness, head shaking, ear scratching seems to throw her BG out of whack. I understand dogs with floppy ears are more prone to problems. My wife, Linda, tries to keep the bath water out of Annie's ears and eyes, but that is pretty hard to do.

I treated Annie with a "cucumber melon cleansing and drying solution" for two days and the head shaking / ear scratching was reduced, but the BGs were still hitting highs (300 - 400s). Since it was time for her Bordetella vaccination, we took her to the vet and had her ear hair trimmed, and was given (sold) Zymox Enzymatic Solution. My limited internet search of Zymox sounds like it is a good drop for ear problems. Any comments?

EDITED: Just noticed this contains Hydrocortisone, so I'm guessing it might affect the BG. Also have seen online where it is sold Hydrocortisone-free.
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Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9 years.

Last edited by CraigM; 02-23-2011 at 10:59 PM.
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2011, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Annie - Getting too smart!

Oh poor Annie, no fun.

I didn't have much success with Zymox ear solution but I know others that have. I'm still using my homemade solution that seems to work well for her.

Maybe you've already tried this, but I put a cotton ball in Ali's ears when I give her a bath to keep the water out.

Hope she feels better soon!
Patty
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