Grayson

[Grayson]

I've been reading the forum for a week, and it seems that the One Touch Ultra is a favorite meter for many here. If that gives the most accurate results when a home curve is done - comparable to the vets meter - I will get it, but since I've got access to the Accucheck Aviva, I'd like to hear what the knowledgeable folks here think of it. My funds are limited, so if I can get decent results without the cost of a new meter, I'd be thrilled. My Black Lab is just one week using Novolin N, and already acting much like his old self. He is nearly switched over from the Iams Weight Control to the Merrick Grain Free Buffalo & Sweet Potato. Luckily, I had spent last weekend reading, so I was wise to the quality of ingredients in the diabetic 'food' the vet wanted to sell me. Nutrisca was my first choice, due to a low glycemic rating, but the store had quit stocking it over poor sales. Merrick was in my top three, and he was poking at the bag the moment I sat it down, so I think he agrees. Current Novolin N dose is 16units, up from 13 started by the ER vet last Saturday. My vet did a curve on Thursday, and wants another done in three weeks. I'm hoping to be able to avoid that repeated expense by doing home curves, but I expect my vet to resist under claims of human meters being not accurate enough. I'm sure they're annoyed with my rejection of the food as most people blindly accept that if they're selling it, it must be great stuff. How I can convince them to do a side by side comparison of MY meter and theirs when the next curve is done, will be a feat. How do you suggest I accomplish that? I'd appreciate any tips...

[CraigM]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

Welcome to the forum! Although you posted into the area that makes the most sense, I moved the post into the most used area for general discussion. Basically, we like to have one thread for each pup so that we can keep their info in a single location.

About the Accucheck Aviva, I don't known if any members are using it or not. Being a typical human meter I guess it would likely be 30-50 points low in the 100-200 range and more as the number rises. Even being off, it would still give you a good idea as to how your pup / food reacts to insulin.

How much does he weigh? Any other medical conditions / medications? Are you getting your Novolin-N from Walmart ($25)?

Craig

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

Hello and welcome

The accuchek aviva was the first meter I used. It was reliable. In didnt convert the numbers. Looking back in my memory seems like 30 points lower. Then I used the bayer usb. Still use my one touch ultra 2, its good, reads 20 to 30 lower. My alphatrack meter is best as it takes a very small droplet from his lip.

[Grayson]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

Thanks for the quick reply. Grayson is a 9 year old Black Lab that weighed 101 up thru the end of Feb. He takes Novox (generic Rimadyl) for arthritis, so must have an NSAID panel periodically to check that liver function is okay. The last test was fine, including a 107 glucose result. When he showed symptoms of the increased thirst and urination for a week or so, then became obviously lethargic (it's not easy to tell when a couch potato is just being his lazy self) I took him to be checked. Test results came back late Saturday morning with a reading over 400 and showing some ketones, so my vet recommended he go into the ER vet over the weekend to start insulin. The ER vet was not concerned about his level of ketones and he was not showing any signs of ketoacidosis. He dropped to 90 lbs in the month since his last lab tests, but I hope that means we caught it fast as he showed no signs back then. His regular vet did a curve on Thursday and increased the Novolin N from 13 to 16 units. He wouldn't eat while there, so I'm expecting that stress would have messed with his levels to some degree. After only four shots, he was already acting better, but I know it is expected to need to raise the dose at first. One week into treatment, he is showing much more zip and he really likes the Merrick Grain Free Buffalo & Sweet Potato food I've put him on. As for meds, he takes the Novox twice a day, a monthly Heartguard preventative, and Cosequin daily. My vet put him on Zymox drops for 2 weeks to chase off an ear infection. He has always gotten carrots as a low calorie treat and we buy the tiny 5 calorie Milkbones. The table food has been replaced with only veggies - frozen green beans and broccoli. I'm considering a fiber boost of pumpkin, but may opt for a powder fiber supplement instead. I've got ketostix to check his urine tomorrow, as I'm curious to see if the ketones are still there. Yes, I got the $25 Walmart insulin, and will likely get a meter there if Accucheck Aviva isn't good enough. My mother uses that, with a Lantus pen, so I'm well versed in testing. I just need to get him his own lancets with a thicker gauge so they do the job better the first time. If he balks at the lip testing, I'll probably do the ear, as his fur is really thick near the tail and scruff. I have corn syrup in case of a hypo, so I think I'm doing okay...anything I'm missing?

[momofdecker]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

My vet did a curve on Thursday, and wants another done in three weeks. I'm hoping to be able to avoid that repeated expense by doing home curves, but I expect my vet to resist under claims of human meters being not accurate enough. I'm sure they're annoyed with my rejection of the food as most people blindly accept that if they're selling it, it must be great stuff. How I can convince them to do a side by side comparison of MY meter and theirs when the next curve is done, will be a feat. How do you suggest I accomplish that? I'd appreciate any tips...

Maybe start by asking them some questions about their goals for Grayson. What do they feel is too high for blood glucose (bg)? What do they feel is too low? What do they feel is an acceptable range in terms of fluctuation through out the day (ex. 100 point spread from high to low vs. 300 point spread from high to low)?

Ask about the curve itself. Do you feed/inject at home then take Grayson in? If yes, how do you get an accurate starting point if his morning fasting is not being recorded? Do they test until evening fasting or do they cut it short due to office hours? If neither morning nor evening fastings are being tested during the curve I would ask them to explain the accuracy of it and how you know what it tells you when you have no starting and ending point.

Maybe share your goals for Grayson. You could say that you understand that human meters read low but that they would still help you records Grayson's patterns and trends. Even readings that read low might still help you recognize how well balanced his food/insulin is. If Grayson's bg has been at a certain level and you note it starting to run higher than that level - a human meter might be the first thing to signal to you that an infection of sorts might be brewing. If you want to take Grayson for a hike, something out of his normal routine, having a human meter available to test him to make sure he stays safe is certainly better than guessing.

Then bring your meter in and request they do the side by side testing. Again, acknowledge that there might be differences but testing at home with a human is better than no testing at all. I hope your vet will understand your request for this to be a partnership journey and will be willing to work with you throughout it.

[Grayson]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

The vet should have been able to catch Grayson near his peak, if they got right to the job when I took him in at 7:45am...we have an odd schedule compared to most, so his feeding and shots are done at 2am & 2pm. If the Novolin peaks at about 6 hours or so, he should have been there around the first test. They could see everything from the peak thru a meal and insulin reaction, until I picked him up at 5:30pm. His lowest BG should have fallen in there, as well as his highest, right? It seems like the most critical tests should have been covered...

Oops...forgot to say that he refused to eat his meal at 2pm, so I'm not sure how much they learned this time. Maybe I can try to visit him during feeding time when he goes in for another curve in three weeks. When I picked him up, they put his food down in the exam room and he did eat it (after he realized I was back to rescue him).

[amydunn19]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

Although it is very widely believed that the action of insulin is the same for each dog(6 hours in) many here have proven the low point can be at many different times. My dog is pretty true to 5 1/2 hours but some have their lowest point at two or three hours after food/insulin and some have their low points at 10 - 11 hours after. I feel certain it is all over the map. Your best bet is to do a curve at home just for your own information to make sure.

[momofdecker]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

It seems the thought process for NPH insulin is that it peaks at or around the six hour mark. The problem is that dog's don't read that information. Some do peak as expected. Some do not.

When my boy was on NPH his peak was around the 10 - 12 hour mark.

The only true way to know when your pup's nadir is would be to test from morning fasting and continue every two hours up till evening fasting. Given that your schedule is a 2a and 2p schedule, I imagine Grayson's routine is also a bit different at home during those times than it might be at a vet office where he is likely crated inbetween testing. Even simple things like seeing the mail man or playing, exercise, etc... can impact how insulin is absorbed from day to day. Holding a dog in a crate where all of those variables are eliminated - and then you add other variables such as the scent/noises from other animals all day (things your pup likely would not experience at home) - well the meter might be more accurate but the schedule certainly might not be.

My opinion - I'd rather know a meter reads low but know it's accurately recording my dog's daily schedule than to know the meter is accurate but the schedule is not. Just my opinion though. I had a high strung dog who did not do well around other animals nor did he do well being caged.

[momofdecker]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

One other thought...are you providing the measured food for the 2p feeding/injection? Just thinking if the vet is feeding another food or another amount than what you are feeding, it could also skew the results of the curve.

[Grayson]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

Yes, I agree that a fairly accurate meter at home will be better than the stress he has being at the vet all day. He does have a crate at home where he can go in and out whenever he wants, but I forgot to ask if he was confined at the vet. He is very calm and sweet natured, and the vet techs like him a lot, so I would not be surprised if he was allowed to go free in the back with them when it was feasible. I'm all for doing curves at home to avoid the expense and stress, but I need to convince the vet that it'll be good too. Maybe his refusal to eat will help to show them that he was stressed out and they're not going to get optimal test results in that way. While he is well behaved for them, he agrees with Dorothy - 'there's no place like home'...

BTW...he took his own bag lunch for the trip, along with his shot.

[CraigM]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

Would you like us to change the title of your thread? Something like "Grayson the Lab", or ???. Just let us know.

Craig

[Grayson]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

Does the One Touch Ultra Mini give the same quality results as the regular? I was only able to get the mini, but it appears to take the same strips as the other versions. Is anyone using the Mini, or only the larger size? I was able to get the thicker 26g lancets, and will use the reli-on device with them. I've been getting Grayson used to me touching his lips, so he will hopefully be okay with testing. He is doing well with the insulin and new food - acting much more energetic and only had a trace on the ketone test strip several days ago. He is at 16 units NPH now, but I expect that may change when the vet does a curve on the 18th. That is still a low dose for a 90lb dog, right?

[eileen]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

My 2 cents......I used the Accu Chek Aviva years ago with Mildred. It was one of the many human meters I tried before purchasing the Alpha Trak.
For her it gave very inconsistent readings, it is not a meter that I would suggest.

[amydunn19]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

My one touch is a mini and it is fine. It was about 5 points off yesterday at the vet office.

[Grayson]

Re: How does Accucheck Aviva rate?

Just did a few tests in the last two days to get Grayson slowly used to me testing him at home before I try a curve. I figure he will act better if its not totally new to him when I have to poke at him every two hours. It seems to work best on a callous, as his fur is too thick to reach skin near the tail. Anyway, he'd just been fed, and immediately got a 381 on the One Touch Mini -it should be like a fasting test, as it would have been too soon for the meal to take effect. I then gave his 16 units of Novolin. The ketone tests I did today are the same as last week -the color is somewhere between negative, and a pale 'trace' reading. Along with his having returned to normal water/potty needs, this makes me less concerned by the other two readings being over 400. They've all been done at feeding/insulin time, so it appears to be about his normal place then. Is this sounding right for a fasting BG, even though he's only three weeks into treatment and not yet near what I expect his insulin level to be? He has a vet curve this Thursday, where I expect they will again raise his dose. Does reaching 400s right before meals fit a normal BG pattern at this stage, or should I be alarmed, even though he's no longer showing signs of high levels?