Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum
 

Go Back   Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum > Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog

Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog Anything related to your diabetic dog.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-14-2019, 07:28 PM
jesse girl's Avatar
jesse girl jesse girl is offline
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,402
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

Thats a substantial drop but not an off the cliff type of curve

You do know insulin is working just not good balance

I think it would be worth a try with NPH . If you continue to see high fastings during the regulation process and cant get that to stabilize you maybe able to give a short or fast acting insulin at mealtime with NPH. You may have to reduce NPH if you go down that road because the fast acting will carry the load of clearing excess sugar

I have done this with jesse mostly in the early stages of the disease just to keep her out of very high readings but I wanted to find a more stable process which ended with just giving her one meal a day to eliminate for part of the day the food equation which solved the problem and gave a much more stable outcome for her .



If you have any questions just ask
__________________
Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-15-2019, 05:31 AM
bpcooper14 bpcooper14 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Sewanee, TN
Posts: 9
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

Now here is where things get really strange. This morning his level was 128 on the libre and 211 with the alpha track monitor. We've had some issues with being super low in the morning and other mornings being high with no change in food or schedule. The vet is just as confused as I am. And my dog is in Virginia with my family and I'm in Tennessee because I started a new job so I'm getting information through the phone, not firsthand.
__________________
Ace (border collie) was diagnosed with EPI on 5/31/18 and weighed 24.6 lbs. On 7/28/18, Ace was diagnosed as diabetic. 2 meals per day. 1 cup Victor Multi pro with 1/2 cup ground chicken breast, 1/4 cup sweet potato, and 1/4 cup fat free cottage cheese. 7 units Vetsulin injections twice daily with each meal.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-15-2019, 06:30 AM
Raysaint's Avatar
Raysaint Raysaint is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 841
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

With some dogs, and humans, fastings may not be consistent. I check my dog's fasting every morning and record it.

I asterisk any fasting I deem "high", more than I like. Anything over 250. He'll have 6 or 7 of those a month. Possible rebound overnite, or just because. Diabetes is strange.
When it is high, 300 or more, he seems to correct more by nadir time; by midday he can be down to 160.

His other fastings can range from 90 - 216 on a monthly basis. That's what I expect now, and I'm good with it.

I guess you could experiment with food and timing with Vetsulin, or give NPH a try. If you switch, give it some time, don't expect improvements in the first week. You may still have to experiment with food after a few weeks if improvement doesn't happen. There's no silver bullet.
__________________
Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-15-2019, 08:15 AM
bpcooper14 bpcooper14 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Sewanee, TN
Posts: 9
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

Thanks for the info. With him also having EPI we've been pretty particular with his feedings and that part of his health has been fairly stable. With the diabetes acting up, we're going to remove as many variables as possible and try to regulate that more consistently. Starting with tonights meal, we're going to just feed him kibble. We're going to remove the fat free cottage cheese, chicken and sweet potato and slightly increase the kibble to compensate. My hope from a scientific point of view is that fewer variables will give us a better look at what we are dealing with. If it looks like the food needs to be changed to help stabilize the highs and lows, then we can do that and look at slowly adding back the elements of his diet that have helped us to keep the EPI in check and the weight on.
__________________
Ace (border collie) was diagnosed with EPI on 5/31/18 and weighed 24.6 lbs. On 7/28/18, Ace was diagnosed as diabetic. 2 meals per day. 1 cup Victor Multi pro with 1/2 cup ground chicken breast, 1/4 cup sweet potato, and 1/4 cup fat free cottage cheese. 7 units Vetsulin injections twice daily with each meal.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-10-2020, 03:40 PM
bichons9's Avatar
bichons9 bichons9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Buffalo, N.Y. via Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 211
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

It's been awhile..still on Vetsulin..HATE IT. My husband is on his way right now to get Novolin 70/30...Terrible weeks..Suzie has anemia and high BG's..DVM's don't know why anemia or high BG's but labs except HCT and PCT good... All drugs ineterfere with each other so had to stop many..Now, hoping the pepcid does not interfere with the insulin...Please look at her chart..UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1091352167
__________________
Suzie, 10yo, chihuahua, diagnosed D.M. 8/3/2017started NPH..Lantus..Vetsulin.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1091352167

Last edited by bichons9; 06-10-2020 at 03:42 PM. Reason: adding new spreadsheet
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-10-2020, 05:22 PM
jesse girl's Avatar
jesse girl jesse girl is offline
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,402
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

Its a pretty large imbalance and lots of it looks like rebound to me spiking off a low . There are some really good days but they are far in between . I had similar numbers with jesse early on until we found what worked for her . It could be to much insulin , imbalance with food and insulin ,a medical condition or medications .

With big swings in blood sugar I am not sure 70/30 would be my first choice and i would go with just N as the fast acting part may continue the big drops which possibly lead to big spikes

Not sure if this is a recommendation from your vet to match up in similarity to vetsulin which maybe not the way to go but its up to you . All I can do is give an opinion and I have been surprised something worked or something did not work on occasion

I have seen dogs with not great regulation and did just fine . Especially smaller dogs for some reason . Hope your plan has a good outcome
__________________
Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-10-2020, 06:33 PM
Riliey and Mo's Avatar
Riliey and Mo Riliey and Mo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,774
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

70/30 insulin will start working fast in 10 to 20 minutes

changing insulins is tricky starting all over

for a 9 lb dog x .25 is 2.25 units twice a day

i would start off with 2.25 units and work up to avoid any large drops and test frequently
__________________
Riliey . aka Ralphy, Alice, Big Boy
20 lb male. 5 1/2 nph insulin. 1/2 cup fromms. black cockapoo, dx Apr 2012 . 5 1\2 yrs diabetic. 2000 to 2017
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-10-2020, 09:07 PM
sibhus sibhus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 45
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

Thought id chime in as ive been using Novolin 70 30 for a month now. I actually switched from Novolin N over to Novolin 70-30 about a month ago and have had great success with it. In my case my dog is a one time eater which results in a huge spike which the N just cant bring down. I first started mixing R with N as 10-90 and then 20-90 and ended up with a 30-70 bias and then just switched to the Novolin 70 30. The N also resulted in a huge variation between the maxima and minima reading of my dogs curve of about 200 points. With the 70 30 it is reduced to about 80 points between his maxima to minima, so his curve is significantly flatter. Also unlike many on this site, im still using regular dog food (Blue Buffalo adult) with high carbs which contributes to this spike which the 70-30 can regulate.

I cant upload my curve as I have a thorough 2 week plot using the Libre system but noticed with the 70 30, a dual nadir, in that the r portion starts dropping one hour after administration and the first nadir occurs at the 2 hour mark and as someone noted it is a prominent spike. The second nadir then occurs about 4.5 hours later due to the N or 70 portion.

Ive spent a lot of time reading diabetic articles and it does seem vetsulin was modeled after Humilin 70 30 to address the post meal spike that occurs in dogs.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-11-2020, 01:14 AM
bichons9's Avatar
bichons9 bichons9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Buffalo, N.Y. via Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 211
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

Thanks to all of you..will send frank for Novolin N tomorrow just in case..DVM's know NOTHING!!! I receive no guidance from DVM's and MERCK claims that they will AGAIN CONSULT MY DVM'S WHICH IS A JOKE...HAVE DONE THIS FOR LAST 2 YEARS. nOT KNOWING CAUSE OF ANEMIA PUT HER ON SUFULCRATE AND PET-TINIC WHICH SPIKED THE BG BIG TIME (IN CASE OF GI BLEED) NOT EVIDENT. NOW HCT WENT FROM 24.1..24.9 AND YESTERDAY 31.5...so it's regenerative. I ASKED IF 2-3 HOURS OF TOENAIL BLEEDING COULD HAVE CAUSED THIS-DOUBTFUL.ANYWAY, I DID WONDER ABOUT DECREASING INSULIN AND DID BUT RAISED HER BG. I have researched all days and nights and get all negative results. Suzie usually had high dinner BG..Now is 558 @ 2:30am .never any ketones. I'd like to go back to Lantus but no one selling at reasonable low prices lately. My DVM does not know how to use Novolin 70/30..only uses NPH...may have to go to university if no one can guide us to help Suzie...DVM wondered about Cushings but I had 3 Bichons treated for Cushings...Suzie has had no increase in water or urination and normal Alkaline Phosphatase?Liver enz normal,,kidney labs normal. I guess now i'll try to research if there is a relationship between anemia and high BG?? Thanks for your advice all..any further info will be greatly appreciated. I asked tech if artificially high glucose was different from diabetes related since no ketones..can't get answer. In addition I searched for the opposite of "Dawn phenomenon" where dinner BG highest rather than morning..no findings?? Thanks again.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1091352167
__________________
Suzie, 10yo, chihuahua, diagnosed D.M. 8/3/2017started NPH..Lantus..Vetsulin.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1091352167
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-11-2020, 01:25 AM
bichons9's Avatar
bichons9 bichons9 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Buffalo, N.Y. via Hattiesburg, MS
Posts: 211
Default Re: Vetsulin vs. Novolin N vs. Novolin 70/30

Jessie Girl..I have regular and now 70/30..I don't know dosing if giving r with nph..I don't know dosing with 70/30 either. DVM doesn't know.Allivet is over nighting me another vial of Vetsulin but have opened a new vial today.I see instructions above on 70/30 I think..The DVM's don't take all of this (except anemia) seriously because she remains asymptomatic and no ketones. As a HCP, I only know human DM..not in animals.
__________________
Suzie, 10yo, chihuahua, diagnosed D.M. 8/3/2017started NPH..Lantus..Vetsulin.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1091352167
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:07 PM.


Disclaimer -- The content on this site is provided for informational and educational purposes only. While we make every effort to present information that is accurate and reliable, the views expressed here are not meant to be a substitute for the advice provided by a licensed veterinarian. Please consult with your veterinarian for specific advice concerning the medical condition or treatment of your pet and before administering any medication or pursuing any course of treatment that you may read about on this site.

The views and opinions expressed by contributors to this forum are strictly their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and views of the owners, administrators, or moderators of this forum and the k9diabetes.com website.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009, 2010 k9diabetes.com. All rights reserved.