Spirit Crossed the Bridge Today..... June 9, 2016

[jim maceri]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

Will get all the blood work back today and will post the results. Strange thing, yesterday spirit's water consumption dropped from about 16 cups per day (which I think is normal for a giant breed based on my last newfie) down to about 12 cups. I continue to measure the intake every day on a chart.

I'm going to look into starting the insulin on Monday that way if there is any issues the vet will be open. I still have to discuss doing this at home but MJ and I are both pretty adamant that it IS going to be that way. If the vet wants to see him I'll drive him there 3 times or more a day but we both feel confident about measuring the BG here and keeping him calm.

I'll post the results of his tests later today.

Jim

[CarolW]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

Hi Jim and MJ,

I think you're doing wonderfully well with Spirit. Makes me so happy!

Dogs do vary in how much they drink. Kumbi usually drank a lot. But the amount varied from day to day.

The following charts were done when the cancer already had a big grip on Kumbi, but we didn't know what was going on.

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbiwater.php

Notice the strong variation in BGs, day-to-day, at estimated nadir time! (mmol/L above the line; mg/dL - U.S. measurement - below the line).

and the second chart:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/kumbiwater2.php

On that one, I didn't include the BG readings, but they can be very approximately estimated, from the mmol/L scale on the left Y-axis, and the mg/dL scale on the right Y-axis.

I think that second chart, in particular, shows that the more stable Kumbi's BGs in a particular day, the less water he drank.

But he died less than a month later, of cancer. All the same, I think it's very natural and normal for BGs to vary as shown on those charts; see the other charts in the series:

http://www.coherentdog.org/vek/curvejourney.php

With Kumbi, I noticed seasonal changes in BG levels, sometimes requiring an adjustment in insulin dose, and sometimes changes if we had a hot spell or a cold spell in the weather.

He got more activity (walking) in better weather, and less in inclement weather (surprise!)

Kumbi's BGs would usually drop with exercise.

I'll be watching for your further reports; keep up the great work! Hope you can get Spirit started on insulin soon - but agree with you, wise to start on a day the vet's office is open!
Thu, 27 Oct 2011 06:57:06 (PDT)

[jim maceri]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

Our vet just did a half hour consult going over the results of all the blood work. Red cells, white cells, liver, pancreas, thyroid, triglycerides and the list goes on and on.......everything was in the normal range with the exception of his glucose which was 271. All things point to early onset diabetes. He was quite impressed that we caught it before any episodes or damage and believes since his levels at each testing have ranged between 260-284 that his pancreas is still producing some insulin or we would have seen values in the 400-500 range and above.

The main part of our discussion was on his beginning treatment process. Instead of 3 nights at the vets he agreed and convinced us to let him have him for 2 nights. He had many great points as to why this works so well at the office as opposed to us doing it here. He said...."you will have plenty of time to work on his curves and testing at home, I've had great success with early onset like spirits in regulating and I promise I will personally be looking after him."

We scheduled for November 3rd, Thursday dropping him off at 9:00 in the morning and picking him up on Saturday at 9:00 a.m. We can come as much as we want to walk him, feed him and he said we can even sit with him for hours if that helps us and him. If he sees spirit is under stress or not eating he will alter this plan.

I guess if we like and trust our vet we should go along with this. He gave us the names of several families who have also gone thru this procedure so we can talk to them and calm our nerves about how their dogs managed at the office. I'll be calling them today.

We will begin checking his BG here at home and get him used to the process before we drop him off. So I guess in one week from today we will be starting this process and that will give us almost 8 weeks before we take our annual motorhome trip to Florida. The vet is going to give us a list of vets on our route and said he is available to talk 24 hours if we have any issues....just call he said.

I hope we made the right choice but after listening to him it did make sense and he is probably right when he said we will be under more stress than our dog will. Time to go watch all the videos again.....

On a side note, this forum has been so very helpful to ease some of our fears. Knowing that there are alot of you out there doing this makes it seem much easier. I'm sure we will be posting and reading from this point forward and I'll make sure to give you all updates and photo's from our trip. I would like to post a photo of Spirit but I'm not sure how to do that yet.

[jesse girl]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

it sounds like a good plan

due to the fact that insulin is probably being produced seeing those flat numbers dosing might be tricky for a starting dose so being under a vets care should be ok but i would like to see some checks during the night hours also

dosing requirements may change overtime and that would be expected as production of insulin will probably diminish over time so your home testing will be a big help to keep your friend safe

[MaryLea]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

I agree that it sounds like a good plan. I'm glad you have a vet you trust! Our first one--well, not so much after the advice to double Ruffles' insulin (from 4u to 8u, 2X/day for a 15-lb dog). (We started looking for another vet immediately after posting that here; everyone cautioned us about it being too high a dose, which it was.)

Will be watching for your posts and cheering you on!

Mary

[Cebe]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

Jim, so far, I like your vet. His process does make sense, especially with the possibility of honeymooning. I hope you read Natalie's article about that, because I think it might apply to Spirit.

Best wishes! Regardless of the vet, seems to me that Spirit is in very good hands.

[jim maceri]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

I did read the honeymooning article....the vet said he will probably start at .25 per pound and not .50 per pound on the first day and then adjust from there. He will see him 3 days after he is home, 3 days after that, then once a week for the next 3 weeks.

During that time he will be teaching us about adjustment because of food, stress, exercise and all the other variables. He likes the fact that I am reading all the we stuff and I told him about this forum so I expect he will take a look at some time. I told him it was a great resource for new dx parents comfort and wonderful info.

Jim

[k9diabetes]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

I hope you have the amounts of insulin confused. No dog should ever be started on half a unit per pound... maybe he meant kilograms?

For some dogs, even one quarter unit per pound is too much. Our dog was one. I like to see the starting dose no higher than one fifth of a unit per pound and in Spirit's case, with such moderate blood sugar, I would start even lower. Maybe just a unit or two to see how he responds to it.

Natalie

[MaryLea]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

I hope you have the amounts of insulin confused. No dog should ever be started on half a unit per pound... maybe he meant kilograms?

For some dogs, even one quarter unit per pound is too much. Our dog was one. I like to see the starting dose no higher than one fifth of a unit per pound and in Spirit's case, with such moderate blood sugar, I would start even lower. Maybe just a unit or two to see how he responds to it.

Natalie

FYI: Ruffles never needed .5/lb. of insulin. She began at .25/lb, but BGs tested off the scale (over 600, US measurement). When our vet at the time told us to increase to .5/lb, 2x day, Natalie was one of the ones here who sounded the alarm that it may be too much for her. It was. She settled in around 6u, 2x/day, which is about .40 per lb. Spirit is nowhere near 600s in his BGs.

Mary

[jim maceri]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

I hope you have the amounts of insulin confused. No dog should ever be started on half a unit per pound... maybe he meant kilograms?

For some dogs, even one quarter unit per pound is too much. Our dog was one. I like to see the starting dose no higher than one fifth of a unit per pound and in Spirit's case, with such moderate blood sugar, I would start even lower. Maybe just a unit or two to see how he responds to it.

Natalie

oops, it is half of one fifth.....still learning..I guess it would be .25...the vet said the same thing that he is going to start lower than normal to see how he responds on the first day.

[SandyL]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

Sounds like you have a GREAT vet!!! Really happy for you and it will make this journey sooo much easier for all of you!!

Sandy

[MaryLea]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

oops, it is half of one fifth.....still learning..I guess it would be .25...the vet said the same thing that he is going to start lower than normal to see how he responds on the first day.

One fifth would be .2; one half of one fifth, .1 (which is about what Natalie said she would prefer, I think, depending on your dog's weight).

Mary

[Judi]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

I like the sound of your vet. Hope you get everything settled a bit before you head south for warmer weather!

[jim maceri]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

One fifth would be .2; one half of one fifth, .1 (which is about what Natalie said she would prefer, I think, depending on your dog's weight).

Mary

Thank you it is one half of one fifth....my dog is 130lbs

[CarolW]

Re: New to forum, looking for suggestions

Jim - same as others are saying, I REALLY like the sound of your vet! Yours might EVEN be as good as MINE! (just super-good vet - really dedicated, and really knows his stuff). And very clearly, he's working as a teammate with you and MJ, for Spirit's benefit.

Oh, my doGNess, I REALLY like THAT! Unlike many others who come here, YOU probably won't be faced with changing vets (apart from during your trip, but, then, you'll have your vet's references for that - so much the better!)

As always, I'll be here watching. Thanks for your detailed reports; they really help.
Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:16:47 (PDT)