New member Earl

[Rob3ddd]

My dog (50% chiawaha/Jack Russell) started insulin therapy about 2-3 weeks ago.
Earl is much better than before and gets 2 injections a day after meals.
Now that his glucose is more under control I’d like to improve his diet so hopefully he requires less insulin and gets healthy nutrition.
Ive not had much luck finding nutrition requirements or consistent opinions.
Don’t feed him this then next article says it’s safe and healthy.
I try small portions of new food and see how Earl reacts.
I’d like to see a painless method of getting blood glucose readings and insulin injections but so far nothing seems to be available.
If there’s any new delivery systems that are reliable please post.

[jesse girl]

Re: New member Earl

Hi and welcome to you and Earl

Can you tell us what type of insulin you are using and how many units ? What type of food are you feeding Earl ?

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

I’m giving Earl 5 units U-40 of vetsulin twice a day every 12 hours after meals.

I’m feeding him 4 ounces of equal amounts of chicken,brown rice, and cauliflower for each meal.
After meal he gets a teaspoon of Greek yogurt and half a teaspoon of canned pumpkin.Also I started giving him a teaspoon of Alaska salmon right after meals.

He gets his favorite treat after injections only which are Denstix.
I give him small amounts of raw broccoli mid meals but lately tiny pinches of salmon or half a teaspoon of yogurt.

My vet basically said to keep diet consistent and after next blood test if glucose remains stable using diet will be next.

In the beginning he had some problems eating everything but now he sits and waits for meals and doesn’t leave a grain of rice in bowl.
I used to give him 2% milk when he begged for treats but he hasn’t had any 2% milk since his diagnosis.
I have been successful getting insulin into him but it’s the worst part for me.I have been successful giving him shot by myself but it’s easier with 2 people.
He is small,quick,intelligent and strong.So stay commands must be constant from beginning until I calm him down and massage injection site.He enjoys the injection site massages and making tents without the pokes.
I have had injections where he didn’t seem to even realize he got a shot but then other times he feels the insulin going in.

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

It seems like the brown rice,cauliflower and chicken is satisfying his hunger but it doesn’t last long enough.
The diet got started when his first symptoms started he tore the stuffings out of a pillow and I thought he had intestinal blockage and he was straining to have movements and was having cramps.
The vet kept him overnight and gave him 2 X-ray and things started moving and he got better but 3 days later I could tell he wasn’t feeling good.Then it would improve and 2-3 days later back so took him back to vet still on brown rice and chicken diet.
Once his glucose got down to 150 using same diet I kept it consistent and that was the first goal.
Next is diet.

[jesse girl]

Re: New member Earl

The diet sounds adequate and appears to be working with injected insulin . It really doesnt matter how much insulin you are given ( higher or lower ) as long as its controlling blood sugar adequately . I dont think you are dealing with pain for the most part as some dogs dont like there space invaded

My jesse doesnt use vetsulin and uses Nph (human ) insulin . This gives more oppurtunity to use different size syringes that vetsulin does not give with shorter and thinner needles which have less impact at injection . There maybe more types for vetsulin now as the last time jesse had vetsulin was over 10 years ago and it was very limited at that time . So if the needle is fairly long and thick you may want to hunt around for something more appropriate for your smaller dog . You can use the u-100 syringes ( used for NPH ) but you have to convert the correct dose and make sure your vet understands that and everybody else involved

Your off to a good start . Many take months to get to good numbers .

Home testing would be a benefit but it takes a bit more work to get everybody comfortable with a smaller dog .

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

Thanks for encouragement.

I was trying to find some safety retractable syringes so that after the injection needle gets sucked up into syringe and they are only available in U-100.
My vet said he would have to order them and calibrate with the ones used and then I decided to wait until I could go to town and see if I could see them in person for they were rather expensive.
I then had several successful injections without pain so until weather clears up and I can go to supply company better use what is working.

Is it possible to ever control glucose with diet only and eliminate insulin or is it rare?

[jesse girl]

Re: New member Earl

K9 diabetes is akin to type one diabetes in humans which means your dog will be insulin dependent for the rest of his life . Now some dogs like my jesse have a much smaller dose than most which had me speculate she may have some natural production of insulin and early in her diagnosis took her off insulin which did see some reduction in sugar without injected insulin but it was mostly insignificant and put her back on insulin . With 5 units already being administered your dog probably produces no natural insulin so diet will only help if it works well with injected insulin and it sounds like you are having positive results . Is your vet doing compete curves to determine the correct dose ?

Now many of us use NPH insulin and like I said there is more of a selection of different needle sizes that maybe more applicable for your dog . If you having a bit of success with what you are using you may want to stick with it for now as you will improve giving injections overtime knowing what your dog is ok with and not .

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

So far my vet has tested blood sugar after injections 3 times and there’s another coming up in approximately 2 weeks.
The 4 units two times daily got Earl eating and drinking much more normal but an increase to 5 units twice daily brought level down to 150.

The vet goal was to get glucose stable then address diet.

I’m using the brown rice,chicken and cauliflower diet now and am adding salmon.

I have problems with one of my hands due to accident and I have a hard time making a tent,holding Earl and the injection by myself or using one hand only.
I have had to get another person to inject while I hold Earl mostly.
I have successfully injected Earl 5-6 times by using a clip to make a tent but it’s not always reliable.It seems making a good tent is a key to successful injection.
The weather makes it more difficult to try to find materials that could possibly work to help make a tent for injections.
The vet tech said they’d see if there are other ways to inject and the vet said there might be an ear transdermal rub on but if there was I think pet owners wouldn’t be using a syringe.
So for now I have to drive Earl to another place after each meal,get him injected and then return home.
I have looked for other ways to inject and the only thing I found that looked like it may be a consistent way is still in testing phase.
If there is any different ways to get the insulin delivery please post.

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

I’ve looked at devices like vetpen and there’s one in testing called PKA SoftTouch.
I also looked at comfort-in.

I’ll have to do more research.

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

I’ve looked at devices like vetpen and there’s one in testing called PKA SoftTouch.
I also looked at comfort-in.

I’ll have to do more research.

I think for now maybe try some BD syringes.
They seem to be the most comfortable by what I’ve read.
I’m using the syringes the vet gave me Utimed inc and they may not be the most comfortable.

[jesse girl]

Re: New member Earl

I have never really tented as prescribed . I just grab some skin from her hind quarters maybe 6 inches from the base of the tail ,on either side of the spine . I pull it up using my thumb and index finger and inject into the raised skin . Now I use very short needles so they dont pass through the other side . Walmart has u-100 syringes of different sizes and NPH insulin with usually not needing a prescription . I think it was $ 24 for insulin ( that lasts jesse for almost 3 months ) and $ 12 for a 100 syringes that I only use one a day for multiple shots and never had a problem .

Not sure if you suggested that your vet has done complete curves ( a test first thing in the morning and every 2 hours until you vet office closes . People who test and do curves at home may go 24 hours ) . One test if thats all that is being done only gets one moment in time and blood sugar can be quite different from one part of the day to another . A dose adjustment is based on the lowest number in a curve . Say you had 120 at 8am and 400 at 4 pm . There isnt much room to lower the dose with that 120 if at all . So you have to figure ways to get the curve more balanced and flatter . Flatten the curve as they say here on the forum .

So you can inject in any place you can pull some loose skin and some places are less sensitive than others . Like I said I use the hind quarters . Its ok to experiment and vets dont have all the answers . For me I have become the foremost expert of my jesse's diabetes and I feel that has helped her live with disease for almost 11 years where her vet at the time said it would be at most 3 years and it would not be very pleasant . We figure things out with the challenges we may have to get the job done to give our pups a happy normal life with some limitations .

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: New member Earl

hi Rob
just wanted to mention theres a hammock that dog groomers and diabetic dog owners use to inject and test.
its hung on 4 poles then cloth attach cutting 4 holes for their legs.
you could make one.
just put Earl in it and test inject

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

I think I can improve the clamp I’ve been using.
It’s similar to a chip bag clip but if there’s enough loose skin it makes a nice mound.More like a Twinkie shape and I have poked parallel to the body and he didn’t seem to feel it and the plunger went in very smoothly.
I’ll post a picture and show how it works on myself and maybe someone will have ideas.

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

I few questions I have and thanks for the suggestions.
The grooming hammock is a good idea.
I have noticed that sometimes the plunger feels like it doesn’t want to push in easily as it should so I did a repoke and it glided in easy.
If plunger feels like it has too much resistance is that a sign you could be in a muscle?
Also Earl started having an odor like something was wrong with diet.
Not from him necessarily but lingering in house.
I started giving him small amounts of salmon and two days the odor is gone.
It was a slight fecal odor I’ve smelled in dog kennel but Earl has never smelled like that.
Could the salmon have gave him something he was needing?
2-3 weeks on rice,chicken and cauliflower is likely missing needed supplement or minerals??
Earls eyes don’t seem the same at times but he didn’t sleep good last night because water was slightly running to avoid freezing up.
Maybe he is just tired today?
My sister noticed it also and said his eyes look just like her dog did that also had diabetes??

[Rob3ddd]

Re: New member Earl

Here’s a few pictures.
One is Earl and the clamp is on the tricep area.
I don’t see any way to post pictures.
Unless I’m missing something I can’t find any attachment or picture loading menus.
Is there a way to post pictures?