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**Cebe** · 10-04-2012, 11:00 AM

Re: new here... help?!

Folks here have lots of differing methods and views on food.

My opinion is that in the beginning, I would not change the food wholesale, but I would work on the 2x a day feedings, as that is really important. If your dog won't eat it, consider adding a tsp. of wet food grunched up with the dry kibble or making another gravy. I use a salmon topper with my dog when she turns her nose up at the kibble.

when you're first staring out, you should get your dog (and yourself) on a 12/12 hr schedule. That's vital. Then I would work on the proper insulin dose. After that, you can play with the food.

My vet said no change to my dog's food because my dog has allergies and we need to keep them in check. So, I just don't think the kind of food is important, just that they are getting food.

If your dog doesn't eat, we generally give 1/4 of the dose as some insulin is needed to cover basal need.

Have you considered home testing? It's intimidating at first, but liberating.

**jesse girl** · 10-04-2012, 11:02 AM

Re: new here... help?!

hi and welcome to both of you

food can be the difficult to figure you just cant constantly change every few days to try to find what works

so you try to make an educated guess and looking at a curve (testing blood sugar at meal and shot time and every 2 hours until next meal and shot time if done at the vet testing maybe less due to hours of operation) what you may look for and this is far from an exact science but if your pup blood sugar drops early and rises late a faster digest able food might be appropriate if it is the opposite you may want a food that takes longer to digest

i think the prescription diets are good for a typical curve where insulin is strongest in the first 6 hours after shot and meal and maybe more appropriate for a dog who drops early most have carbs that do digest quickly i believe

my jesse i went with a partial raw homemade diet and looking back probably wasn't appropriate for her type of curve because it had allot of slow digestible protein which i was able to determine because she threw up at hour 10 after meal and still had a quarter of her food undigested (look just like i feed her ) her tendencies were to drop early but i believed in the food itself for overall health i added some yams as a carb to help early but that wasn't enough so i had to give her more than 2 shots a day for it to work .

so finding a food that is appropriate for an individual curve would be the first step

testing blood sugar at home can make this much easier to figure remember it takes time for a dog to get used to a new diet and how the body process it

**Abby's Mom** · 10-04-2012, 12:00 PM

Re: new here... help?!

Welcome...

We are probably just going to give you more information, to make her head spin, but I remember being in the same place as you are, when Abby was first diagnosed.

I think it would be wise to find a food that you feel comfortable with. Alot of us do not use prescription food, and have made it work. Others are on prescription food, and it does work. I think it truly is a matter of preference. When home testing you will find what works and doesn't work, and just about every dog is different. So what may work for one, doesn't necessarily work for the other. But when reading about diabetes in general, a high protein, low carb diet will keep blood sugar pretty consistent throughout the day. Some need a low fat diet as well for other health issues, such as pancreatitis.

So, essentially, we can only control food, exercise, amount of insulin. Even with all that control, Blood sugar will not stay consistent. Each day will be slight different than the other day, so we do the best we can to control the things we can.

Here is a website depending upon how many pounds your dog is and what the caloric intake should be. If your pup needs to gain weight or lose weight you can use it appropriately.

http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.htm

If you need some advice on some meters, testing ,etc... let us know. Especially when switching foods, it is great to test to see the chances you are making are working as you would expect.

Welcome.
Barb

**CraigM** · 10-04-2012, 12:01 PM

Re: new here... help?!

Guess we aren't giving you "FEED THIS" kind of suggestions!

There really isn't just one best diet. I would bet if we took a survey, there would be virtually no two dogs getting exactly the same diet. Your comment about a lower fat, higher fiber is a common approach, but no one is really going to say what the percentages must be. What is important is to find a food that is consistent / repeatable and the dog likes to eat.

I, personally, feed a quality commercial dog food because I believe it may be more consistent than when I (wife) tried home cooking. We couldn't be sure each meal was exactly the same; one meal might have a slightly higher content of one ingredient than the other meals. Others on the forum do home cook and have good results, guess some dogs are more tolerant of food differences than my Annie. I believe a few weigh out each ingredient for each meal, I'm just too lazy to do that.

Many of us use a kitchen food scale to repeatably give the same quantity of food. About the only variance I put into Annie's food dish is an occasional small portion of vegetables in addition to her weighed dry kibble.

You didn't ask about between meal treats. Some dogs (Annie) are affected by "doggie" treats. One medium sized Milk Bone would cause her blood sugar to rise, so she seldom gets that type of treat. A small piece of broccoli, cauliflower, green bean or ice cube is what Annie looks forward to. Some have good luck with small pieces of chicken. Correction: she does get a very small doggie treat, about the size of my thumb nail, after her injection. I count that as desert to the meal and not a between meal treat. I really try to keep things consistent!

Annie is a good eater, but the consensus seems that dogs need some insulin even if they don't eat. Something like: full meal = full shot, half meal = half shot, 1/4 or less meal = 1/4 the normal shot amount. Of course, it's best to entice them to eat the entire meal.

Let's see what others have said...

**diamondlinks** · 10-04-2012, 12:20 PM

Re: new here... help?!

Welcome, I do understand how you feel, I know that feeling of what am I going to do, and can I do this? My dog was diagnoised 2 years ago and he is still not controlled, he has been a very hard one to get his blood glucose level at a good number. I am afraid of needles, well I was till this. You will be able to do this because of your love for your pet. I have not had a vet that has been very good, so that is when I turned to this forum and they have helped me so much, I don't think I could of done it without all the help. Reading a lot and learning will help you, yes high fiber and low fat diet. My vet of course wanted me to put my dog on Science diet because they sell it and I think they all learn this when in school and stick to what they were taught. I like a vet that is willing to go the extra mile and help, like thinking out of the box. I did have that vet but she has moved away so now I am on my own. I live in a rural area not much to choose from. Try to take a deep breath and everyone here is very willing to help. I do my own curves because my dog gets so upset going to the vet I hated to see him go through that. So I decided I could do my own curves and I have learned how to do that. Finding the right spot to get that drop of blood was the hardest for me. Every dog is different, for us we use his elbow. Beau is a large dog and he is so easy to deal with, I do believe your dog knows you are trying to help. To much info at once sorry. Hang in there and ask any question, no question is to stupid to ask, believe me.

**Judi** · 10-04-2012, 12:23 PM

Re: new here... help?!

the food does make such a difference in how much insulin is needed but I know of at least 1 diabetic dog who eats the Nutro canned with his vet's blessing and he has done just fine.

He has been diabetic for a year and a half, just like my Jenny.

I think you are on the right track with high fiber and low fat. That is why a lot of the grain free foods recommended by some of the health food pet stores around here, have too much fat. The high fiber food really seems to work for Jenny and regulation.

Lots of folks have had good luck with home cooking but you need to make sure they are getting all of their vitamins and you need to weight it. (weighing it is good anyway)

I worried and worried about what to feed Jenny and she wound up on the WD (which a lot of people criticize but worked really well for her) for about a year till she got tired of it.

Now she is on Purina OM. Her eye doctor recommends it. I had been eyeballing her portions but when I started weighing it, it really helped with her regulation. I think Craig is the one who stressed the importance of that to me.

So, feed your dog what she will eat! In my experience dry food requires more insulin than wet. And hang in there! You will develop a routine. Judi

**segnaro** · 10-05-2012, 12:13 PM

Re: new here... help?!

Thank you all for the information! We go back tomorrow for glucose test and I need to get Lincoln's first curve done... We are planning to do it at home since there will be more than one needed over time and she is so stressed when we go to the vet I am afraid her numbers will not be accurate. I am now looking at meters and urine strips... I was reading reviews on the AlphaTrak and the iPet glucose meters and from what I have read it sounds like the AplhaTrak is the way to go? Any thoughts from your experiences? Also, would urine strips be an accurate way to follow her blood sugar rather than blood checking? She is not going to love me taking her blood!!!
And, as my reading continues, I am thinking I will be mixing dry food with homemade in order to get her to eat consistently. My vet said he would prefer her to be on dry food because she recently had bladder stones (surgery to remove them in June) and wants to avoid changing the ph in her bladder. I think the combination of a bit of the homemade will get her to eat enough to get her through the day. So far we have gotten our 12 hour schedule going pretty well and she is doing so much better about her injections. She is a good old girl!
Thanks agian for your advice!!!

**Cebe** · 10-05-2012, 12:34 PM

Re: new here... help?!

the ipet gets terrible reviews, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this board use one. I have an alphatrak but I also have a Nova max plus human meter that I like. Others like the relion meter and the one touch ultra.

Urine strips are really not a substitute for blood glucose testing, though some people who cannot test use them.

**CraigM** · 10-05-2012, 01:20 PM

Re: new here... help?!

Agree with Cebe. I've read only bad reviews of the iPet. Of course every situation is different and you might get good results?

I've been working on a little "primer" for meters. If I can figure out how to copy / send I'll add another message in a few minutes.

**CraigM** · 10-05-2012, 01:35 PM

Re: new here... help?!

Here's what I've written so far. Comments are very welcomed.

Meters:
Everyone has their favorite. I actually have five meters, always looking for something better, or less expensive to use. Some of us have the AlphaTrak2 meter that many vet clinics use, and is calibrated for dog / cat blood. Most who home test usually also have a human style meter. Why different types of meters? Because dog blood is a little different than human blood and the readout won't be exactly correct if using a human meter on a dog.

AlphaTrak2. Probably considered the gold standard for home testing dogs. As I mentioned, many vet clinics use the AlphaTrak, so your readings would be the same as your vet would get. Being the GOLD standard, it is the most expensive system. MSRP is in the $150 range, but there are sometimes sales when it can be snagged for under $90. The real expense is with the test strips. They are almost always over $1 each. Many of us test two, or three, times a day. You will use even more getting your pup regulated when you might test six, or more, times in a day. This really adds up! There is another dog meter called the iPet (no kidding), but the few reviews I�ve read about the iPet were very poor.

Human style. There are many choices, you've probably seen many commercials on TV. Prices generally run from around $20 to $40. Sometimes if you do a search you can actually find free offers (suggest if you fill out a form, or telephone, for a free offer, fill out the form as if you we're the new diabetic: companies might not want to provide a free meter to a dog!). Test strips for human meters are lower priced, sometimes much lower priced, than the AlphaTrak2. Many on the forum use the One Touch Ultra and say its a good meter. My newest meter is the Walmart ReliOn Prime. The big thing about the Prime is the very low cost test strips: 18 cents each!

Because there is an error testing dog blood with a human meter, most will take the human meter to the vet clinic and do a test at the same time the vet takes his test and compare the difference. For example a 100 reading on a human meter might be 140-150 if taken with the AlphaTrak. Usually, the higher the number, the greater the difference.

A couple of us use both the AlphaTrak2 and a human meter. By testing with both meters a few times you can usually determine a percentage difference between the meters (testing several days with both meters). I do most of my testing with the inexpensive Walmart ReliOn Prime, but every few weeks I'll run a side-by-side test with the AlphaTrak2 to ensure my calculations are still close.

Lancets. Lancets are the little needle things that we use to prick the skin to get a blood droplet to test. I�ve used several brands and haven�t seen any difference. I think some prefer one brand over another, but the brand doesn�t mean anything to me. What might matter is the gauge (needle thickness). I think most human diabetics prefer the very thin 30 or 31 gauge needles. If you buy a human test kit, the lancets included are probably 30 gauge. Many of us feel the 30/31 gauge lancets are too thin to get a decent blood sample from our pups. the slightly thicker 26 or thicker still 25 gauge lancets frequently do a better job on our pups. I�ve been using 25 gauge lancets for several years. You might not readily find 25 gauge lancets at your neighborhood store, I�ve had to order them online.

Lancing device (clicker). Most kits contain a lancing device which is a spring loaded tool in-which you insert the lancet. There is a depth setting and when you activate the device it will quickly stab the lancet needle into the skin. Some people use the device, others will simply hold the lancet between their fingers and make a quick stab. I went several years just holding the lancet, without using the device/tool. I tried the device/tool several months ago and now use it all the time. Personal preference.

**Shellie** · 10-05-2012, 11:04 PM

Re: new here... help?!

Welcome to you and your pup! You've gotten some great advice so far! And yes, Craig...you and what you wrote is awesome! But then...he always is!

I do use a OneTouchUltra as my main meter. But I've also used the NovaMax which I did like and it ran very close in trials with my OT. I would suggest getting a human meter...perhaps even the Relion Prime...have heard good things so far on that one and it's SO reasonably priced. Strips are very reasonable as well. Run side by sides with the vet meter when you can and do some calculations. Craig can help you there as well! He's our meter man!

With food...unless the dog has pancreatitis or allergies, any quality food will do. I think that since you have the stone issue...I would stick with what the vet has suggested...more dry than wet...but the food you use currently would be fine.

One reason to stay with what you are on currently is that every time you make a change, it's best to do so one thing at a time. That way you can always tell what caused any differences.

Consistency is the key here...as is patience. Consistency in diet, dosing, schedule, exercise. Patience with taking the time to work thru all the issues. Your pup won't likely be regulated any time soon (unless you are incredibly lucky and I sure hope so!) so you'll need to have patience as you work thru the details. We all get impatient and want it to be regulated NOW but it takes time. You will get there!

Glad you found us here! I know there is SO much information your brain is likely thinking of exploding right about now. The learning curve is steep as we say but you'll get it! Hugs!

**MinPin** · 10-07-2012, 04:22 PM

Re: new here... help?!

Hi

My two cents on the meters...My Vet recommended the Alphatrak 2 and I love it because it came with a cool program that you can enter all your records into....it also makes graphs for you! A little pricey at $169 (Canada)
Then I print out the info and take it to the vet with me for a good visual.

Cost of BG strips is high, but I don't use that many test strips right now, because I have been progressing slowly with Ruby, first the injections had to be tolerated (yay! no biting, hiding, swat team, or tears), then the diet had to be changed, now we are working on mastering the Glucometer once daily, then we will progress to curves...have to work slowly with my dog, but luckily she is a good eater (loves w/d wet and kibble)

I also monitor her water intake (my vet calculated the "normal" amount for her) and I use urine strips sporadically to test for ketones and a Fructosamine test monthly until we master the glucometer.

Ive been very lucky, my dog's blood sugars have gone from 36 down to 7.5 Canadian numbers) at the midpoint between injections (6 hours)and I have an excellent vet who calls me at home to check on us!

Good luck with your Dog!

**segnaro** · 10-13-2012, 10:25 AM

Re: new here... help?!

Thank you all for the information... It is very overwhelming, but I am sure we will eventually find all of the right pieces for Lincoln. She is still running really high even with the increase of insulin and I wish that it would regulate faster, but I know we will finally get it figured out. I am still so unsure of what to feed her and I am trying not to make changes in her diet when we are changing her insulin, but I am concerned that we aren't feeding her the right things. I wish that I knew exactly (well, a rough estimate would do) how much protein, carbs, etc. that she needs.
We ended up getting an AlphaTrak from our vet (he matched the price I found online) and are going to try and do a curve tomorrow. Maybe that will shed a bit of light on things for me.
Luckily she doesn't seem to mind the pokes too much, but I have noticed she tends to check my hands before she comes to me!!!

**CraigM** · 10-13-2012, 10:45 AM

Re: new here... help?!

Originally posted by segnaro View Post

Luckily she doesn't seem to mind the pokes too much, but I have noticed she tends to check my hands before she comes to me!!!

Yea, they learn quickly!

Annie doesn't mind the shots or testing, but tries to walk away when she sees us picking up the eye drop bottles!

After you finish the curve, post the numbers and tell us what you've been feeding. Some of our diet experts might be able to compare the diet and curve and give a little advice. Of course, every dog is different. They digest food in their own way, and get the insulin to use in their own way