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  • #1

    overwhelmed and confused

    My 10 1/2 year old Mini-Schnauzer, Bogi, was diagnosed with diabetes 8/10/12. The only reason we found out about it was because he started peeing in my bed and then when we started baby-gating him in the bathroom, he peed on the floor and apparently just laid in it. So... I took him to the vet. He had been diagnosed with a urinary tract infection in early June so I thought it was the same thing. I almost fell out of the chair when my vet told me he suspected diabetes. He did some blood tests and confirmed the diagnoses and started Bogi on 4 units of Humulin N every 12 hours. The next day was a nightmare. My baby was hardly moving and when he did get up to walk he looked like he was drunk. Luckily that lasted only 24 hours during which time I didn't sleep, eat, or do anything else but watch & pet him. Since that time, we've been back to the vet numerous times, the vet kept him for 10 hours and tested his blood every 2 hours, and we gradually increased the insulin dose to 8 units every 12 hours. Everytime we go to the vet, Bogi's sugar levels are high. The first day it was at 400, the lowest it's ever gotten was 172 - but it seems to stay around 300. I asked the vet at what point did the increased units mean it was really bad. He said each animal was different and we just had to find the right level for Bogi. He then said, "There are also some dogs who are insulin resistant but I'm not ready to lable him that yet." Unfortunately, I had to leave that instant to get to my son's school to pick him up in time so I didn't get to have him elaborate on that.

    Here's my problem... I can deal with giving him insulin for the rest of his life. I can deal with the special food and even the frequent vet visits (although my wallet may not be able to keep that up forever), but what I can't deal with is that he's still peeing all over himself. I'm actually wondering if I should put him to sleep. He doesn't act sick - but... I just don't know what to do. We crate him during the day while we're at work. I get home at 6pm and go to bed around 10pm and then he gets baby-gated in the bathroom (of course with a little bed in there). He HATES baths - but I have to give him one almost every day because I come home and he's soaked in urine from his lower chest down. I've bought the belly wraps, he manages to take them off without the velcro coming loose (still can't figure out how he does that) and when he doesn't get them off - he pees through them (I've even used super maxi overnight pads). The vet says alot of the peeing is from the diabetes - but it's not getting any better. I've read some people say the incontinence is part of the problem and doesn't go away. Bottom line - I'm getting so tired and frustrated!! My husband is no help (military and often not home & I work FT too). Is it fair to have him locked up all the time to him. I never EVER crated a dog before. Mainly because I'm claustrophobic and I just can't fathom being locked up in a little box all day - but I've had to do that with him. It just doesn't seem fair to him. His Boxer brother has free reign of the house and he's in a box.

    I love Bogi. My husband gave him to me for Christmas the year before we got married. He was my furry son before I had my human son. I'm one of those pet people who treat their pets sometimes better than we treat our human family members :0 My husband has had to learn to share our bed with Bogi as well as Bogi's 70 pound Boxer brother. It kills me to continplate putting my baby-Bogi-butt to sleep. I've done a lot of crying over the last few days. I just don't know how to do what's best for him.

    Sorry this post was so incredible long - but I'm at my witts end
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: overwhelmed and confused

    I'm about to sit down to dinner, but wanted to welcome you and Bogi to the forum.

    A couple of questions:

    How much do you think he weighs?

    What, and how often are you feeding?

    Any snacks at all?

    Any other medical conditions / medications?

    Craig
    Annie was an 18 pound Lhasa Apso that crossed the rainbow bridge on 10-5-17. She was nearly 17 years old and diabetic for 9½ years.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: overwhelmed and confused

      He was 19.11 pounds 2 days ago at the vet. He's getting 1 & 1/2 cups of Hills Prescription Diet food twice a day (right now he's getting about 1 cup of the i/d -for Gastrointestinal health and 1/2 cup of the u/d - for non-strucite urinary tract health because he was on the u/d before the diabetes diagnosis because he has recurrent kidney stones and we're trying to wean him off of that and onto the i/d. His only other health concerns are the kidney stones. He has one right now in his bladder - but it's too big to pass or get lodged. The vet says it's not causing any problems so right now we're just watching it. No other medications. He gets 1 lean treat after each of his shots. other than that, no treats/scraps.

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      • #4
        Re: overwhelmed and confused

        Welcome, since the peeing didn't seem to be happening before the diagnosis I would assume it is just diabetes related and nothing else is going on.
        Knowing what I know now, I would suggest you get a blood glucose meter, start doing your own home testing so that you can be more proactive/ quicker in getting him regulated.

        We usually advocate slow and steady here, but as you have said that you are close to needing to put him down due to the peeing I would move a bit quicker. The only way it is prudent to move at a faster pace is to home test....or it would get very expensive at the vet's.

        Has the vet run any curves on him. We are all about the numbers here. The foundation is usually start with a dose on the lower end, stay there 3-5 days, then do a curve before evaluating if an increase is warranted.

        If the numbers are very high and steady, I think it is safe to increase after the 3 days. If the numbers are coming closer to the target range you want to give the doses longer to settle in.

        Many folks come here with dogs that are peeing all over the place and when they approach the right dose it just goes away.

        I hope you can hang in there.
        Tara in honor of Ruby.
        She was a courageous Boston Terrier who marched right on through diabetes, megaesophagus, and EPI until 14.
        Lucky for both of us we found each other. I'd do it all again girly.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: overwhelmed and confused

          i guess i need to clarify. we started crating him during the day because he'd pee in the house. those incidents never appeared to be accidents. he would occasionally walk over to the corner, look at us and just squat and pee or go in to the other room and pee. he's in a military family and has had to move a lot in his life and we figured he was getting tired of the moves because it started 2 years ago after a move. a year later we moved yet again (this time to hopefully the last house we'll live in for at least 15 years as my husband is close to retirement). it appeared to be a "this is what I think about these moves" thing. But when he started not even getting up and going to hide or to a corner and was actually laying in his own urine - and the fact that he laid in my bed and just peed - was what prompted the 8/10/12 vet visit. He DID NOT have diabetes in early June when he had a UTI (at least nothing showed up when they did the urinalysis). So... it's kind of an ongoing problem that has been greatly exacerbated by the diabetes. I talk a good game about putting him down - but I doubt I'll ever be able to take that step. I'm too selfish - I want him to stay alive. I guess that's why I'm so conflicted. I don't know if putting him through the shots, the constant baths, the constant crating, etc is for his benefit or for my own.
          Our next vet visit is Saturday morning. Hopefully I'll learn more then. I will consider the home testing. I've been using this vet for the past 30 years (often driving from other duty stations back to Florida for procedures, visits, etc) so I trust him - but he just can't give me any guarantees or time frames and it's driving me nuts. I want my Bogi to be happy and healthy again but after seeing my dad's misery with cancer treatments before he finally died last year - i wonder if all of the tests, shots, and other attrocities (constant baths & crating, etc) that I'm putting Bogi through is worth it TO HIM.
          I guess in a perfect world - our furry family would be able to tell us when THEY'VE had enough!!!

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: overwhelmed and confused

            Lots of possibilities... Kidneys, diabetes insipidus, hormonal incontinence.

            This is what Natalie posted to my thread when I was going through a similar thing with Ruby. She has a similar problem. We have done a mix of tests and have made some adjustments ( a pen in the living room when we are gone or she is running high numbers and we can't be sure we will get her out in time. She is old and sleeps a lot and doesn't seems to mind.

            I think what you have said about having claustrophobia is telling though. Aside from the baths it doesn't sound as though he is being destructive or showing symptoms of distress.

            Female dogs often can develop a leaking problem, not sure if this can happen to males too. The leaking will often happen when they are sleeping. Ruby also went through a phase when she was generally very weak from the diabetes and she was peeing in bed at night.

            keep your chin up, I know the clean up can be wearing.
            Tara in honor of Ruby.
            She was a courageous Boston Terrier who marched right on through diabetes, megaesophagus, and EPI until 14.
            Lucky for both of us we found each other. I'd do it all again girly.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: overwhelmed and confused

              hi and welcome to both of you

              you and your baby are new to this so maybe take the putting to sleep thought out of the equation and put some effort into controlling the diabetes like others have said home testing can help with that

              he may have not been feeling very good for sometime maybe months which may have changed his nature on peeing diabetics have an uncontrolled feeling to have to pee to try to get that sugar out of there body

              my jesse would run out the dogie door at lightning speed

              so see what happens once things are better controlled. try to get your pup outside as much as possible to pee some have better control than others so hope things settle it could take a month to see improvement but what you look for is things getting a little better over time it doent have to be perfect your looking for flashes of feeling better they can have a normal life with diabetes and overtime it becomes a new normal my jesse still has fun chasing her rabbits and he has been diabetic for 2.5 years
              Jesse-26 lbs - 16.5 years old ,11 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin( under the Relion name ) a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
              Jesse earned her wings on 6/21/2021

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              • #8
                Re: overwhelmed and confused

                Hi

                Ruby's peeing in in the house seems to have completely stopped after 1 month of treatment...it was very trying, and the odor was quite bad and now I suspect the odor was from the sugar in the pee. I spent my days off cleaning and shampooing and still could smell it, it was very upsetting. I was lucky, she had been paper trained as a pup, and would pee on newspaper if I left it, but it was always saturated and it ruined the lino... she peed on the carpets as well...I suspect the cat was joining in too...if she can pee in here, so can I! She also had some bouts of diarhea, not pleasant to wake up to getting ready for work....that has all stopped.

                It was also embarassing as my house didn't smell so great!

                We are celebrating today one week of no pee on the carpet!

                "Hi" to you and Bogi
                Steph & Ruby - Red Min Pin, Age 13, Diabetes Diagnosed July 2012, On 4u Caninsulin twice a day, weight 4.5 kilos, struggles with IBD and Pancreatitis occassionally, food Royal Canine Gastro low fat, loves fruits & veggies, hobbies: Perimeter Security, Sleeping in blankets, car rides, walks, hiding and burying beanie babies.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: overwhelmed and confused

                  Hi and welcome to the forum! I think there are a couple of ideas to explore here that might help you. First off, SERIOUSLY consider home testing even if your vet isn't for it. It can be a life saver and may actualy show you where you can adjust for the sugar. As for the peeing, which almost seems to be a bigger problem, I'd recommend a full workup by the vet. Sounds like you've had quite a bit of it...with the diet and urinalysis already. How are his kidney functions? If it really IS behavioral, there ARE meds that he can be put on that will help with that. I'd almost lean that way from what you are saying and perhaps he needs help. You would be amazed what a course of the right psych meds can do for a pet. Please talk to your vet about that, too! Good luck and let us know how things are going. Hugs!
                  Shell and Hank (aka Mr. Pickypants) - now deceased (4/29/1999 - 12/4/2015) Cairn Terrier mix who was diagnosed 8/18/2011 and on .75 U Levemir 2Xday. Miss you little man!

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: overwhelmed and confused

                    It is definitely too early to give up on the worst of Bogie's peeing problem being the diabetes - the huge puddles at least. He's early in the process of getting regulated and it can take a while for that problem to go away.

                    Something that might help in the interim is to set him up with a large crate and put a some kind of a sturdy mesh floor on it and then put the black plastic pan under that with something absorbent to absorb the urine.

                    When I had a cat with unregulated diabetes, she peed gallons every day. We set up a metal pan for a rabbit hutch and lined it with cheap bath towels and she peed there. In fact, she preferred peeing there. The towels absorbed the urine and then we switched them out daily for fresh ones and laundered the dirty ones.

                    If you could put some kind of a floor liner that the urine could drain through, then Bogie might be able to stay clean and dry until things get better.

                    As far as whether it's fair to crate or pen him, I will say that I had another cat with a problem of peeing in the house and despite all of our efforts to fix it, we couldn't. The house couldn't take any more, so we got him two large kennels and put his cat box in one end and moved him into that.

                    I felt AWFUL about it - I cried for days feeling like a horrible pet parent.

                    But the cat, Gus, LOVED his new home. I mean seriously loved it. He didn't want to come out of it! And that's where he spent his last three years.

                    I can't guarantee that Bogie will love being penned or even like it, but you never know. He might be perfectly content and happy.

                    It is, after all, possible that his urinating in the house has been a result of territorial anxiety. If he a secure space he might not need to urinate in bad places.

                    We used the wire crates so lots of air flow and a removable pan underneath:



                    http://compare.ebay.com/like/2804645...Types&var=sbar

                    If you could rest the crate on a frame, you could put the pan underneath and then create the flow-through floor for the bottom of the crate.

                    Natalie

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                    • #11
                      Re: overwhelmed and confused

                      I don't know what would be required to get some, but I think plastic grass for backyards might work too. I know they make some that the fluid drains through.

                      Or this...

                      http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/Prod...p?SKU=16977349

                      http://www.thepet-boutique.com/indoor_dog_potty.htm

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