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  #1  
Old 03-06-2018, 09:08 AM
Champion11 Champion11 is offline
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Default Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

Champ is our 11 year old Chesapeake Bay Retriever (80 lbs now, typically 95 lbs) who has just been diagnosed with diabetes. He is currently on the Rachael Ray Nutrish Zero Grain Chicken Dry food (1.5 cups) mixed with Solid Gold Green Beef Tripe (1/2 can) twice a day. After not eating much for 3-5 days prior to diagnosis, we are having success with this blend.

He has been put on 10 units of Vetsulin twice a day starting on 3/5 with blood glucose readings around 425. He has lost the use of his hind legs since last Friday 3/2 and cannot move around to use the bathroom etc. The vet is not informative on what this is caused by but says it could be neuropathy as it's common in diabetic cats but she's never seen it with a dog. They tested for ketones yesterday and they said it was positive but did not give me the actual #'s. They suggested hospitalization but also said may not be best for him given his age.

Questions-
-Any advice on the neuropathy? Is there anything more I can do that just regulating with insulin. Would love a full recovery of course but if he could just get to the bathroom on his own, it would be a major help considering his size.
-Can ketones be resolved without hospitalization? Can I test for these at home?

Any other advice is appreciated. It so hard seeing our active dog unable to move around and live life.

Thanks
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:45 AM
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Judi Judi is offline
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

hi: we've had a few dogs around here rebound from the neuropathy. It wasn't fast but it happened.

Here is post from Victoria about Eddie: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/show...thy#post163648

edited to add: its important to give the "methyl" kind of b12 for this
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

Neuropathy is common with some dogs, and as blood sugar regulates, they usually slowly get their legs back.

As for regulation, please know that it takes time; weeks to months. Don't try and correct it fast. Dogs can handle high blood sugar for the long term.

As for ketones, to my knowledge, a dog would be hospitalized if the ketones were at a high level, and ketoacidosis was present.
Some ketones are normal and will slowly dissipate as blood sugar regulates.
Your vet should be willing to share numbers, and tell you what ketone level is considered dangerous.

And get a meter so you can check blood sugar at home. Many vets don't want you to, they want to maintain control and have you visit them all the time. Home testing is key to diabetes management.
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Old 03-06-2018, 01:25 PM
Champion11 Champion11 is offline
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

Thank you for the replies! I am feeling a little better with reading stories of success with neuropathy recovery with diabetes treatment. Especially after speaking with many people that consider it is "time to let nature take it's course" and say good-bye to Champ. If I buy the Methyl B-12, any advice on dosage for an 80lb dog?

Our vet said that the ketone levels indicate ketoacidosis and the typical treatment is hospitalization, however his age is a factor. Has anyone not done the hospitalization and still seen a recovery? The percentages of recovery I've found online are 65% recovery without hospitalization and 72% with hospitalization. Our vet was ok with starting with regular insulin treatments and retesting his urine after 48 hrs (tomorrow) to see if ketones were reduced.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

It seems like the larger dogs are more prone to hind leg weakness . Probably something to do with the nerves as you get farther back from the brain it may loose some of its communication causing the weakness . Just speculation on my part . As sugar improves so should the weakness but with nerves its usually a slow process regaining that mobility .

At 10 units the starting dose is a bit low to begin with . Now the one number at 425 tells you almost nothing as it is just one number at one moment in time . Six hours from then it could be 100 . Thats why we do complete curves ( multiple tests in a day ) to judge how injected insulin is doing and dose adjustments are based on the lowest number in a curve
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Champion11 View Post
Our vet said that the ketone levels indicate ketoacidosis and the typical treatment is hospitalization, however his age is a factor. Has anyone not done the hospitalization and still seen a recovery? The percentages of recovery I've found online are 65% recovery without hospitalization and 72% with hospitalization. Our vet was ok with starting with regular insulin treatments and retesting his urine after 48 hrs (tomorrow) to see if ketones were reduced.
My dog was older when diagnosed and had ketoacidosis. We did not hospitalize her because my vet does not offer overnight care and taking her elsewhere was cost prohibitive given the circumstances.

We were advised to start thinking about putting her down but I wanted to try to treat her long enough for my son to get home from school and say goodbye. I would take her in to the vet in the morning and afternoon for shots, hydration and blood work. They felt it was best for her to be go home during the day since it would be less stressful. This went on for several days.

Snickers ended up being very responsive to outpatient treatment and we got her blood sugar under control relatively quickly. She was still a sick dog for quite a while. I think it takes a long time to recover from being so sick, more so in old age.

Flash forward 27 months and she is still with me. My vet was surprised she pulled through and was relieved that another undiagnosed problem (that might have brought on the diabetes) didn't emerge.

I hope you have a similar success story. The diabetes diagnosis is a tough one to take especially with a senior dog.
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:51 PM
Champion11 Champion11 is offline
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

Thank you again for the responses! In response to the comment regarding complete curves, do you do these curves daily? Or how often are they done to get the full picture. I had been advised to wait 7 days after we began the insulin treatments to perform a glucose curve.

I am so relieved to hear a success story in an older dog with kesoacidosis and recovery without hospitalization. I understand a lot of it lies in the health of the dog in general. Aside from Champ's lack of ability to walk on his own, you would hardly be able to tell he was sick. He hides it well. I am planning to take him in for hydration again in the next day or so. I am hoping that combined with regulated insulin treatments will help nurse him back to health. Any other recommendations?

Thanks so much!!
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

curves are usually done once a week. Some vets wait as long as 2 weeks
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Champion11 View Post
Champ is our 11 year old Chesapeake Bay Retriever (80 lbs now, typically 95 lbs) who has just been diagnosed with diabetes.
He has been put on 10 units of Vetsulin twice a day starting on 3/5 with blood glucose readings around 425. He has lost the use of his hind legs since last Friday 3/2

Questions-
-Any advice on the neuropathy? Is there anything more I can do that just regulating with insulin. Would love a full recovery of course but if he could just get to the bathroom on his own, it would be a major help considering his size.
-Can ketones be resolved without hospitalization? Can I test for these at home?

Any other advice is appreciated. It so hard seeing our active dog unable to move around and live life.
Thanks
  • It's likely the neuropathy will subside as his blood / glucose number comes down. We've seen many pooches come in with some level of diabetic neuropathy impacting their mobility, and I can't think of any that didn't recover and regain use of their legs.
  • You can get some strips to test his urine for ketones at almost any pharmacy.
Champ's only on his 2nd day of insulin, it may be a little while before you see a change. Good Luck with your guy!
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2018, 10:32 AM
Champion11 Champion11 is offline
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Default Re: Champ - just diagnosed and so worried!

Thank you for the well wishes for Champ! He seems to be perkier today than in the past few days so I'm hoping he's starting to feel a bit better. I"m working on being patient with his progress I have two questions today.

-I'm going to buy the GNC METHYL B-12 2500 MCG. Any idea what the recommended dosage for dogs is? He's 80lbs roughly right now. I asked my vet but won't hear back for a day or so. He's also on amoxicillin for 5 more days for a UTI so hoping this won't have adverse affects on the B-12...

-Is there a thread on food recommendations I can reference? My vet gave me a print out saying it is ideal to find a food with 5-15% fiber of the dry matter and how to calculate that. It also says to look for foods with insoluble fiber content rather than soluble fiber which is opposite of what I read about "good" versus "bad" dog foods in general. Any brand advice? Champ is easy to please if he likes the food but isn't eating any dry food without some wet added (using Solid Gold Green Cow Tripe as a topper currently).

Thanks!!
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