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  #121  
Old 03-16-2019, 12:18 PM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

Well i have similar approach with jesse where she was so sick at the beginning of this process that I would not put her through that at age 14 . The only thing you kind of want to keep an eye on is pain . Now I am in the camp that some pain is part of life and dogs are very tolerant of that but when there in so much discomfort that you can tell that needs to be addressed one way or another .

As far as food I am one not to force feed a dog because there is a reason for a dog not eating and the easiest thing they dont like it . On the other side there could be a medical condition that removes appetite or digestive issues

Now my jesse gets one meal a day at dinner time with shot and a milk bone snack in the morning with a reduced dose of insulin . She has done this for 8 years showing you can give a dose of insulin without a meal it just has to smaller most agree a starting point would be a quarter of the normal dose without a meal .

Its possible a vet visit can find something simple to correct or the opposite and you can go in there with not going to the extreme of bringing everything out of the arsenal to test and treat . A simple vet visit may give some peace of mind . You can always decline referrals . Maybe they can prescribe some pain medication if needed and if given and your dog feels better may point to some discomfort . Some medications can be fairly cheap and give a dog a bit better quality of life
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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  #122  
Old 03-17-2019, 12:25 PM
oliversparents oliversparents is offline
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

Thanks so much for your advice. It turns out that Ollie has rallied in the last two days, and doing better. We fed him white rice, broth, eggs and he gobbled it up! Now we just have to find out if he's got a sore tooth or if something else was bothering him. We will try to reintroduce dog kibbles slowly.



Three of the four family members had been away for 10 days, so I suspect he may have just gotten depressed.
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  #123  
Old 03-18-2019, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

Glad to hear Ollie is feeling better! I have a senior dog and she has gone through much of what Ollie has.

I think you are on the right track when you think depression might of played a factor in his loss of appetite. Snickers (who has always been a picky eater) goes through episodes of not eating. I find a change of pace for her helps. I switch food and take her places outside the neighborhood. She can't walk much but we either stroller her someplace fun and familiar like the park or we go to the pet store to walk around. She travels with us too and she always perks up when she's on the go.

You also might want to ask your vet about arthritis on your next visit. Dogs can usually hide the pain pretty well but if they are really slowing down it can be a flag for a problem. There's a few options for treatment and some people speculate that the current selection of arthritic drugs can add 2 years to a dog's lifespan.
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  #124  
Old 03-24-2019, 03:40 PM
oliversparents oliversparents is offline
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse girl View Post
Well i have similar approach with jesse where she was so sick at the beginning of this process that I would not put her through that at age 14 . The only thing you kind of want to keep an eye on is pain . Now I am in the camp that some pain is part of life and dogs are very tolerant of that but when there in so much discomfort that you can tell that needs to be addressed one way or another .

As far as food I am one not to force feed a dog because there is a reason for a dog not eating and the easiest thing they dont like it . On the other side there could be a medical condition that removes appetite or digestive issues

Now my jesse gets one meal a day at dinner time with shot and a milk bone snack in the morning with a reduced dose of insulin . She has done this for 8 years showing you can give a dose of insulin without a meal it just has to smaller most agree a starting point would be a quarter of the normal dose without a meal .

Its possible a vet visit can find something simple to correct or the opposite and you can go in there with not going to the extreme of bringing everything out of the arsenal to test and treat . A simple vet visit may give some peace of mind . You can always decline referrals . Maybe they can prescribe some pain medication if needed and if given and your dog feels better may point to some discomfort . Some medications can be fairly cheap and give a dog a bit better quality of life
I'm wondering what you feed your Jesse for her homemade meal. It seems like Ollie will eat anything as long as it's soft. Probably periodontal disease. We've been feeding him eggs and rice with a little softened dry dogfood, and have gotten his blood sugar levels on track again. I'm just worried he's not getting proper nutrition.
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  #125  
Old 03-24-2019, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

jesse eats skinless chicken ,hard boiled eggs ,pinto beans , canned mackerel , sweet potato yams and assortment of grind up vegetables that are microwaved . I sprinkle grind up eggshells milk thistle and yeast flakes ( which is for flavor )

If you are seeing decent blood sugar you may want to find a way to make what you have work . There are supplements on the market that can help with balance . I did decide to stop what jesse was using as i felt her diet was well balanced .
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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  #126  
Old 04-03-2019, 08:06 AM
oliversparents oliversparents is offline
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

Ollie continues to decline. He is very lethargic, getting weaker, and eating even less. We've managed to keep his blood sugar fairly normal.
We took him to the vet because his abdomen was slowly getting larger and larger. All the things it could be are bad: severe infection, tumor, blood pooling, organ fluid pooling, etc. He did a blood test to determine if his kidneys are failing, but we haven't got the results yet.
Today Ollie ate a little, got about 1/2 his insulin, and then threw up everything. His blood was 400 or so. He won't eat, so I am expecting him to go low. Ollie is old, we do not have a lot of $, so this really does look like the end.

Then I had a thought...is this crazy? Since it looks like we might be putting poor Ollie down soon, could we just let him go into a diabetic coma? I know that sounds cruel, but it would be natural, and he wouldn't have to travel the 2 hours to the vet and die in a place he hates.
Remember, we live in the country where people are more used to putting their own animals down. I just want to know if this is a cruel way to die. I know there can be seizures, but if you are in a coma, you are unconscious.

I know this is a shocking thought to some of you. Please be kind, we have kept Ollie going with diabetes for 2.5 years, we clearly love this animal and are willing to sacrifice a lot, just like all of you.
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  #127  
Old 04-03-2019, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

Trying to put down a dog on your own can go terribly wrong . I am sure people still use a firearm to do the deed which just makes me feel quite anxious but a 100 years ago it may have been quite common especially in rural communities

We as humans usually dont preempt death and naturally go on deaths terms . My sister in laws uncle is in that process now . He is not eating or drinking and in hospice . He is not in pain and not very responsive

The key is to not suffer and pain is big on the list . There will be discomfort no matter what but debilitating pain is horrible but some people live with that day in day out for many years like back injury

giving to much insulin to acquire an ending could lead to a grand mal seizure possibly multiple before coma occurs . also the dog could survive the first attempt . We have seen dogs heavily overdosed and still survived . The body does a good job of survival when it has to

You could take the human option and manage end of life and let go naturally but that can be very difficult to watch and risk of suffering because you cant manage pain the way the medical community does for pain . Most times we are just limited to giving a pill for of pain management and for dogs like ollie he may not swallow

I would talk to your vet . maybe they have an out reach to your area and have someone come out . Maybe a clinic of sorts . When jesse reaches that time it would be nice a vet come to my residence and her transition would be at her home .

The decision is yours on end of life but i would not recommend doing it on your own . Vets have really done a good job figuring how to do this humanely and fairly fast . They respect the process and comfort family members
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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  #128  
Old 04-03-2019, 08:45 AM
oliversparents oliversparents is offline
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

Thanks for replying so fast. I have had other dogs put down by vets, and have been there with them. It's very fast and apparently painless. I do think you're right, that putting down an animal on your own can go terribly wrong, which is the last thing you want for your animal or yourself. Somehow I had the impression that a diabetic coma would be fairly painless. Maybe they are unconscious, but the human family has to witness the seizures. Seizures don't make the patient look like they are unconscious, and you're right, we could never "unsee" that horror.
So, I think we'll probably end up having the vet do it. Thanks again for your advice. That was a difficult question to ask.
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  #129  
Old 04-03-2019, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

Before the dog goes into full coma, there would be some very scary time for him; shaking, confusion, all kinds of things. I know, I've been in one. Luckily my wife was home to call 9-1-1.

When my blood sugar gets dangerously low, it's panic time.

The vet is your best option for the dog.
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Riley, 8 yr. old maltipoo, 25 lbs., diagnosed Feb 2017, taking thyroid meds, had pancreatitis and DKA mid March, eating Wellness Senior formula can food. NPH dosage now at 9.0 units Humulin N. Adding either pumpkin, spinach, blueberries, yams, or green beans to his food. Also omega-3 oil.
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  #130  
Old 04-03-2019, 05:25 PM
oliversparents oliversparents is offline
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Default Re: Ollie in decline?

The bloodwork just got back. Liver not looking good at all and two other compounds (I forget which) are indicators of cancer. We'll never know for sure, but cancer is a good guess.
Just tonight he cannot hold water down. We will try to arrange a euthanization for tomorrow. It will have to be away from home, so I am hoping he goes on his own tonight, at home, in his bed.
He is not in great pain. He's still alert and can understand and recognize people. He's able to sleep (very soundly). Standing is getting difficult.
I want to thank all the people on this forum for making the last 2.5 years of Ollie's life possible. We were not nearly ready to let go then, and he had a good quality of life for most of that time.
If I'm up for it, I will let you know how this all turns out.
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