Frustrated with food spikes

[Lolo]

Has anyone with a dog inclined to food spikes found a dry food that did NOT spike their dog... or not spike as much? I really don’t want to give R since her spikes are unpredictable... sometimes 50 pts and sometimes 200. I was feeding wellness core reduced fat and I’m doing a gradual switch to RC glycobalance now and it’s awful. She’s spiking 250 pts! She’s hitting levels over 500 2 hrs after eating. We haven’t seen those numbers in ages. I think I’m going to have to bail on RC and just go back to wellness. I called their info line and they said glycobalance is formulated to maintain healthy glucose levels... and prevent a drop after eating. So it sounds like it’s almost formulated to spike them... not good for a dog that is inclined to spike, not drop, after eating.
I’m so frustrated by this food thing.

[jesse girl]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

Yeah its probably there to give a little punch early with the strong action of insulin or possible overlap from the previous dose . For dogs who drop early this food maybe beneficial

Like you said your dog was already spiking so this food may make it worse

I have the same problem with jesse she could spike allot or barely nothing at all it makes you think is it really a food spike or some kind of hormonal response . You would think if it was food it would do it every time but who knows for sure

Jesse changed from dropping after food and insulin to rising after

With any food change you kind of have to re regulate again depending how different the food is constructed

Its funny when you try something new you forget how well you had it before but we all would like to do better for our pups . I have a ton of things i tried thats on the trash heap but i learned something from each and everyone of them

[Lolo]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

Its funny when you try something new you forget how well you had it before but we all would like to do better for our pups .

This is so true! Last night I was telling myself that it’s never going to get better if I’m not willing to try something new (no risk, no reward etc), but this new is not better. I know numbers can get a little rocky as they adjust to any food change, but I just cant stomach these highs.

[Daisydog10]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

When Daisy was spiking several hundred points after eating, I soaked a portion of her kibble to flatten out her curve. The food was hitting her system, it wasn't digesting. Adding water and soaking some kibble aided her digestion process.

[Lolo]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

I stopped the glycobalance yesterday and went back to just wellness last night. I do already add a teeny bit of water to it. I heat up abt 15g of ground turkey and then add a bit of water to make a turkey broth and pour it all over her dry food. Probably only a tbs of water though and I feed it to her right away. I could try adding more water and/or let it sit and soak. How long do you soak for and how much water? I’ve always felt like that would spike her more because she would digest faster if soaked and spike more before insulin kicks in. Levemir has a real delayed action of about 2 hrs.

[Daisydog10]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

I mush up all her food in a food processor with a little water, then soak about 11g of kibble until it's mushy. I put it in the microwave with water for about 20 seconds. Daisy is on Novolin N, so I'm not sure how the food would react with a different insulin.
I have seen success stories concerning high fasting numbers with soaking/wetting food to an almost canned dog food consistency. So far it's helped Daisy with her sluggish digestion.

[Scooterspal]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

...She’s spiking 250 pts! She’s hitting levels over 500 2 hrs after eating. We haven’t seen those numbers in ages. I think I’m going to have to bail on RC and just go back to wellness....I’m so frustrated by this food thing.

If your pet is having these drastic changes after doing well before it may be a change in insulin dosage or type is now required. Introducing Novolin R, the fast acting version insulin, can help to control the spikes you are seeing. It's reaches peak at about two hours after injection, which would seem to be the exact time your dog is hitting a spike.

Changing food back and forth is not helping, either. Even after Scooter was diagnosed I continued using the same food. No changes. I saw no need to make any and his levels remain well below most others who post here. That control is due to my vet suggesting the use of both Novolin R and N to keep his levels in check.

A consultation with your vet may be in order.

[Lolo]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

i was just testing glycobalance in hopes of finding a food that didn’t cause any food spike, or a very minimal one. It was obviously not a good choice so we just went back to the food I had been feeding her. Which has potatoes so probably isn’t a great choice either.
Her spike isn’t necessarily at 2 hrs, but that’s just the point where the Levemir starts to act. It’s long acting, but has a very delayed action. She starts to spike within minutes of eating and then continues to rise until the Levemir starts acting. I’ve considered using R, but because she has lowish fasting numbers (usually under 200) and the degree of spike is unpredictable I just don’t feel comfortable using it yet. I also don’t want it overlapping with levemir so I can’t really wait and see how much she spikes and then administer R or it will overlap.

[Scooterspal]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

Your original post here does not mention you are using Levemir. You mentioned Novolin R so I assumed you were using Novolin N, now.

Had I known that I would not have suggested considering Novolin R which should only be used together with Novolin N.

One good reason to provide your specifics in your signature. In that way we will know exactly what you are doing with your pet and can respond accurately.

[Lolo]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

Actually Lucy’s specialist who put her on Levemir said I could give R to deal with food spikes, so they can be used in combo. I just told her I’d like to at least attempt to lower them with a food change first.

[jesse girl]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

Jesses NPH insulin begins 1.5 hours after giving shot . The spikes can be frustrating . I have used r and novolog for jesse to resist the spike but what happens it just occurs at another time of the day . So her general levels remain the same and all it may do is change the shape of the curve . Also like you i worry about giving it to prevent a spike because at times she doesnt have them

Now i may use the fast acting insulin's to correct higher sugar but it never worked as scooters mom sugested and stabilized the curve . May work for one dog and not another

Yes you can use r insulin with levemir the only thing i am not sure of is mixing the 2 shots together and may have to give separate shots

I do think your thought process is good and taking things one step at a time
Remember for many dogs the need for very good sugar may not be that important jesse is proof of that . Tight control also has its risks being closer to low blood sugar

[Lolo]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

Thanks everyone! It is really helpful sometimes just talking things through.
Jesse girl, I would have to give R as a separate shot. It should not be mixed with Levemir in a single syringe.
I just don’t know that I would ever be comfortable giving her R when she has a fasting BG under 200 (which is normal for her). I give her her full dose of levemir without waiting if she’s 150 or higher (even though I know it’s recommended that you wait and retest to make sure they hit 200 after eating). But for now I wouldn’t be comfortable giving R and levemir with a fasting BG in the 200 ballpark... even knowing how much she typically spikes after a meal.

[Raysaint]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

What is her nadir numbers? Even tho she spikes after eating, as most do, does she come down to a much lower number after the spike? Does the spike last that long?

[Lolo]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

The spike does last pretty long because Levemir is super gradual. It’s so different than my experience with NPH or 70/30. Those dropped her fast, but also raised her fast. She could move 200 pts within 2 hrs on NPH. With levemir she’ll move maybe 50 pts over 2 hrs when it starts to kick in... but that means when she has a food spike that pushes her to 400 it can take 4-5 hours (after a dose) to get below 300. She’ll drop abt 50 pts every 2 hrs til she hits 150-220ish on average and then pretty much stays there with minimal movements until the next dose.
Her lowest reading is usually either at fasting or the 10 hour mark. Even though I hate the delayed action and resulting spike I know the more gradual movement of numbers is so much healthier for her. But I also can tell that that spike after eating doesn’t feel good to her.

[Lolo]

Re: Frustrated with food spikes

So I decided to give up for now on trying to find a food that didn’t spike her so much and finally got up the nerve to use R. We’ve used it before when she was on NPH and it was in the 70/30 blend she was on for over a month. It dropped her super fast in the 70/30 so I decided to start really easy with just 1u and I think this may be what we needed. I really just want the R to combat/level the spike and make the duration shorter. I don’t want to use so much that it drops her too rapidly. I’d rather she run a little higher for longer than risk her going hypo when I’m not home.
Here are the numbers from yesterday. I wasn’t home all day so missed some readings, but made sure to be home when I thought she could go low. My focus yesterday was taking a lot of readings just to monitor food spike and duration and drop of R. I’m pretty happy with it. I’ll keep it like this for the week unless I get any low numbers. Her lowest numbers are usually fasting or at 10 hr mark.
Dose: 3.25u Levemir, 1u Novolin R

6:08 237
Feed/insulin 6:15-6:20
7:30 338 food spike
8:16 306
9:14 273
10:13 281
11:34 289
2:45 177
6:07 160
Feed/insulin 6:13-6:18
6:46 206
7:15 239
8:18 233

Today
6:07 245
Feed/insulin 6:14-6:20
8:30 223
10:21 236
12:24 198