Abby's Story - 12.24.1999 to 12.31.2013 - Forever in our hearts

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

I thought I would give an update on Abby, and her blood levels. Somedays I only took one reading (typically around her low time), if I had difficulty getting blood, or if we were away most of the day. But I am posting these readings for the last several days, so I can get some feedback, and wondering if it seems like we are on the right road (I think we are).

During our week in the NC Mountains, she did some hiking, one day about 3 miles and she did wonderfully. Her readings were averaging in the 100-200's with some lows of 92 (my meter has about a 30 point difference), so this would actually mean she is at 122. So taking that into consideration:

Friday 7/8 4.5 units/4.25 units

6:18 Fed/Insulin
6:30 Walk
6:56 232
12:35 88
12:52 104
2:41 214
6:32 Fed/Insulin
6:34 369
9:39 176

Saturday 7/9 4/25 Units/4.5 Units

6:35 Fed/Insulin/Reading: 307
6:47 Walk
8:08 134
11:48 308
4:28 295
6:28 Fed/Insulin
6:29 283

Sunday 7/10 4.5 Units/4.5 Units
6:57 Fed/Insulin
no walk
9:46 80
11:15 108
3:37 271
5:45 Fed/Insulin (Fed earlier because of dinner engagement)
8:53 121

Monday 7/11 4.5 Units/4.5 Units
6:35 Fed/Insulin
6:59 Walk
7:40 145
1:10 94
4:21 212
6:41 Fed/Insulin
6:41 251
9:16 96

Tuesday 7/12
6:45 Fed/Insulin
7:00 186
7:01 Walk
8:55 98


I will keep on testing for another week, but just wondering does everyone test all the time. How do you know when they are regulated? Are these good swings? I think I read somewhere that the range should be from 100-250, and if so would this be considered normal.

She seems to be her old self again. No blood in the urine, and amazingly I have kept her on a raw diet, which I change her protien about every week, and I do give her carrots and sweetpotatoes (as snacks). I have read good things and bad things about both, but they don't seem to have an adverse affect. Perhaps there are not that many in her diet as I do mix it up with Green Beans, Brocolli, Squash, Kale. I have her on the following supplements: 1/2 Human vitamin (that has minerals as well), Sea Kelp, one egg a day, 1/2 calcium pill, Fish Oil (no mercury). I have gradually reduced her Milk Thistle (as she had high liver functions).

In the entire process she has lost about 9 lbs (which was needed), and everyone that sees her says what an improvement. I do keep in touch with the vet, but she believes I should only home test during her low periods, and appears to be more interested in treating her for Cushings that the diabetes. But she has not symptons of Cushings since her BG levels have been more in control. Not sure if I would know if the drug was working, if I have no symptons to gauge it on.

Thanks for listening.

[CarolW]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

Hi Barb,

I'm delighted Abby is feeling so well! I'd keep an eye on her to make sure she doesn't CONTINUE losing weight steadily.

What meter are you using?
Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:25:57 (PDT)

[CarolW]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

I should add that I would probably need to chart those numbers, to track them well. Also, that the low numbers make me nervous, because you have so little (effectively none) wiggle-room in case some unexpected event pushes Abby's BG levels down further.

If I were currently charting - not my greatest skill at all, I WOULD chart those figures. One of the things I'd have difficulty with is how to set up the chart, to accommodate the slight changes in times for feeding and insulin. But I'm interested, and if I get some play-time, I might work on it!

Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:36:08 (PDT)

[jesse girl]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

those are good numbers and getting better maybe one area to work on is that early drop after food and insulin if you flatten that out and reduce the drop within those first few hours you may have incredible numbers

you might want to try the walk before food and insulin start slow and see if you get a rise or a drop its nice to remove the excess sugar but all at once always was a problem for my jesse she has her best numbers if drops are under a 100 any more than that she will usually see a rise back up

i like the raw diet also there is some fat with it but her body seems to have no problem when its raw i guess when its cooked it changes the chemical composition of it and makes it less agreeable for her you could add something carby to the meal but it would have to be readily digestible and on a full belly it might not get going fast enough you could try some white rice or something like that small amounts to see if the drop is less

another option is delaying the shot a bit maybe a half hour after food what our goal was to get lower fasting numbers before food and insulin and less of a drop at the onset of insulin(when it starts working) one goes hand and hand with each other

you got some really good information from testing what we do is look at one problem area and work on it with one thing and take it slow some times solving that one thing improves every thing else

testing before insulin is important if those fasting numbers are lower you may have to adjust the dose if you are still getting those early drops and testing at the low points of the day is a good idea we test before and after exercise also because jesse can be a bit unpredictable as far as dropping during her walks well just some things to think about you are doing great and working well with your vet

[Judi]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

Barb I thought I replied to you yesterday but poof.

I hope you get Abby's lows figured out.

Why have you backed off the milk thistle?

Looks like you are totally on the right track!

Judi

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

What meter are you using?
Tue, 12 Jul 2011 07:25:57 (PDT)

Hi Carol,

I am using the Ultra One Touch. I had it tested to the Vet's and we were 27 points difference. The Vet stated that they normally are off about 30 points as they do not want people to get too confident that they are within normal range.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

Why have you backed off the milk thistle?


Judi

Hi Judi,

I heard that if you stay on milk thistle too long, it will not have the liver function as it should. Considering I think that the diabetes may have caused the liver to enlarge, and if I maintain her BG's, I am hoping that her liver will function normally going forward.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

you might want to try the walk before food and insulin start slow and see if you get a rise or a drop its nice to remove the excess sugar but all at once always was a problem for my jesse she has her best numbers if drops are under a 100 any more than that she will usually see a rise back up

i like the raw diet also there is some fat with it but her body seems to have no problem when its raw i guess when its cooked it changes the chemical composition of it and makes it less agreeable for her you could add something carby to the meal but it would have to be readily digestible and on a full belly it might not get going fast enough you could try some white rice or something like that small amounts to see if the drop is less

Hi Jesse Girl - Good idea. I think I will delay the insulin shot, and see if that helps (perhaps after our walk). I do add some carb (Barley or Brown Rice), as I forgot to mention that. I have purchased a book on raw dieting that I am anxiously awaiting, and the author shares some recipes for dogs that have diseases, ie., diabetes. I will share what I get if you are interested. I have been wavering on keeping her on raw (I love the results), but from what I read I should be consistent with what I feed her AND from what I read with raw, you should be inconsistent and give them variety. I am hoping that the multi-vitamin picks up what I have may have missed. Are you familiar with Standard Process products? I have seen one supplement for dogs for Adrenal Support and they also have a multi-vitamin. I am thinking of adding those, instead of the human one. What do you feed, and how do you get around the variety?

One other comment, and that is I noticed that if she goes too low, she will get some higher numbers towards the end of the day. I suppose she is rebounding, so by moving her injection to after the walk, and in the evening to 1/2 after I can perhaps see the effects.

Luckily I work from home, so I can test, and she is consistantly by my side, otherwise I would be a nervous wreck

Thanks everyone.

[Abby's Mom]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

Today's numbers so far are looking good, but I agree there is not much wiggle room:

7:00 186
8:05 98
11:45 89
2:08 103
4:08 128
So there appears to be a nice incline but not rebounding so much.

Of course, when I add my difference for my meter the numbers really are:

7:00 am 213
8:05 am 128
11:45 am 119
2:08 pm 133
4:08 pm 158

I will take another check prior to feeding and/or insulin

[HarrysMom]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

Unless you tested your meter against the vet's at bot LOW and HIGH numbers, you can't simply add the same numbers to all the results.
At LOW numbers,. the differences are often a lot less.

[HarrysMom]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

Hi Judi,

I heard that if you stay on milk thistle too long, it will not have the liver function as it should. Considering I think that the diabetes may have caused the liver to enlarge, and if I maintain her BG's, I am hoping that her liver will function normally going forward.

Where did you hear this? I know many dogs on Yahoo liver group and kidney groups are on milk thistle for a long time. Any reliable publications you could share with us? My dogs have been on Marin and Denamarin for a long time - so far liver values have been good, and our numerous vets (IMS, regular and holistic) actually want us to continue with these.

[BestBuddy]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

Medicinal herbs should not be used continuously for extended periods. I suggest 5 days on then 2 days off for 6 weeks. Skip 1 week and begin again. It could be used one week each month as a little extra protection in otherwise healthy pets.

Not sure why but the above came from
http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/health/thistle.htm

Jenny

[HarrysMom]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

Thanks. I will talk to my vets. This would save me $$$, too, as Denamarin is so expensive.

[jesse girl]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

jesse raw diet remains the same over a year it has some variety built into it but not much beef yam and greens all lean and grounded and processed to help with digestion shes not grazing on carcasses chuckle chuckle but of coarse there is some fat in it have supplement with a multi vitamin not really sure if she really needs it I like the more natural approach those are excellent numbers your adjustments only need to be very small brown rice is not carby enough it has to be the white stuff not the greatest thing to eat even white bread works very quick your at a point where you are just tweaking a bit adjustments with walk and shot time may do the trick take a slow and baby step approach one thing at a time so you dont confuse the results

yep not much wiggle room but i have seen some dogs with numbers like that for years and no problem I would be a tad uncomfortable just because we test regularly and jesse can be unpredictable things are looking good for abby

I would enjoy any info on raw diets i believe it works very well for diabetic dogs it has been a godsend for jesse

[k9diabetes]

Re: Abby Diagnosed about 4 weeks ago

The sharp rise may be rebound but it can also be that the insulin was used up quickly and so ran out earlier than usual. If a bunch of insulin is used up in a few hours, that leaves less for later.

It can be difficult to distinguish between rebound and the quick use / short duration.

I usually base it on how sharply the blood sugar rises. Rebound involves a release of glucose from the liver so I expect a low reading followed by a very sharp rise as that dump of sugar hits the blood stream. If the rise is gradual, I would lean toward the insulin being used up early.

In either case, the next step should be a small reduction in the dose. Sometimes if you're giving a little too much insulin, you can get that sharp drop and short duration and reducing the dose slightly can help level everything out.

Even without an adjustment, you don't have any low blood sugar. Maybe just a tiny reduction in the dose or a small addition to the food would be enough to keep the lowest readings closer to 100.

If she got something quickly digestible with her meal, like a teaspoon of white rice, you might be able to stop her blood sugar from dropping during that first hour and have a more level curve with every reading at 100 or higher.

Overall, it's beautiful!

Natalie