Looking for support for Harry

[jenni23]

Hi

I am new to the forum and my 7 year old Shih Tzu is newly diagnosed with diabetes. We found out about a month ago and it came out of left field, I never saw it coming. He is pretty active and maintains a healthy weight. It all of a sudden happened when I noticed him waking in the middle of the night to go out. He has never done that. So I took him in and sure enough, there was sugar in his urine. So the doctor recommended that we do some blood work and in the end he decided to put him on 4 units of NPH twice daily. This all happened 2 weeks before we were scheduled to move from Kansas to Georgia. So the vet informed me that he would like Harry to be on the insulin for at least few weeks before blood testing again. He also said not to change his food. Just cut back on any extra sugar we might be giving him. Also at the time that we found this out, they did a urine culture to rule out bacteria in the bladder. Well he ended up having major bacteria and also went on some antibiotics for that.

When we eventually arrived in Georgia, I set up an appt with his new doctor and handed over all the records thus far and he ran a fructosamine. When the results came in, I learned that Harry has not been properly regulated, so he is going in this Wednesday for his first curve. I am completely lost and don't know how we ended up here. I am trying to soak up every ounce of info I can scrounge. Any help or advice for a newbie would be appreciated, thanks for listening!

[CarolW]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Hi Jenni,

I never saw it coming with Kumbi, either - but we weren't faced with the disruptions you had with Harry - having to move 2 weeks after diagnosis!

One thing I feel very sure of is that the experts here - there are some (I'm not one of them) will jump in and REALLY give you a helping hand. I expect they'll respond before too long, so keep your eye on your thread here!

In order to assist you better, we could use some additional information about Harry. For instance:

How much does Harry weigh?
What are you feeding, and at what times of day, how often?
Are you giving any treats besides what Harry gets at his mealtimes?

I expect there are others, but I'm rather tired and disorganized this evening, so I hope others will ask the other questions!

I noticed your vet did a fructosamine test. That really doesn't tell very much; only gives a vague idea of blood glucose over a few weeks past - two or three weeks. It does NOT give ANY idea of current blood glucose (BG) levels. I'm wondering if your vet based that suggested insulin dose of 4 units on the fructosamine test - I was puzzled about the idea of not testing for a few more weeks, but if your vet plans to repeat the fructosamine test, that would explain it.

It's more usual, among vets well-educated in canine diabetes (some are, but many aren't) - to do a serial blood glucose curve near the time of original diagnosis, and then to do another a week or two later, and to continue a few times, weekly or bi-weekly, while adjusting the insulin dose.

A basic principle is to "Start low, Go slow," because a dog's body has to learn how to handle the insulin injected from outside the body. Giving too much at the start, or trying to "regulate" blood glucose levels immediately, tends to knock a dog down by lowering glucose levels too far, too fast.

Here's a thought for you - if your vets don't do it, YOU can do it, instead! If you read around the forum, you'll find that many of us test BG levels ourselves, at home. It doesn't require a vet's permission to do that.

It can be slightly tricky to learn to do it, but very many here have learned - it usually (not always) takes a few weeks to learn. Probably the first 20 days of that is simply screwing the courage to the sticking-place (any pun intended).

There are huge advantages to being able to do this testing. so as you look around the forum, keep in mind the possibility for you and Harry - see what you think.

Meantime, I suggest you go here, and read the articles:

http://k9diabetes.com/

That should give you a really good basic education in canine diabetes, and will help you understand what you read on the forum here.

I'm glad you came here. I'm wild about dogs - and have an affinity for the little ones! This is the finest forum on canine diabetes I know of, and I've been around quite a few of them.

So, a Big, Fat Welcome to you and Harry! I'll be watching your thread!

Mon, 6 Jun 2011 21:27:20 (PDT)

[dogsrule]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Hi Jenni and welcome. I have only just joined the forum and the information and support I have received so far has been amazing. You will get all the help you need here. Good luck with Harry.

[k9diabetes]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

That the new vet is doing a curve is good news! That will give you the very best information about how Harry's diabetes is currently and is how all diabetic dogs should be monitored in the beginning.

So I like the new vet so far.

I'm not surprised that Harry is not yet regulated. The best approach is to start with a dose that is lower than is probably needed and to test and gradually work the dose up to the right one. So a dog newly diagnosed only about a month ago and with a move in between would have to be incredibly lucky - like winning the lotto lucky - to be well regulated already.

If you could fill us in on some details, we could better judge the starting dose Harry was given.

How much does he weigh?

What food does he eat?

Does he now eat two meals a day and get an injection of insulin after each meal?

I'll like your new vet even better if he not only supports but encourages your learning to test blood sugar at home.

It will save you a ton of money because you can do future curves yourself and it allows you to check his blood sugar any time you have a concern about it.

Natalie

[jenni23]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Hi everyone

Thanks for your replies Harry just turned 7 this past April. He is currently weighing in at 20lbs. He eats Orijen Senior with a little bit of canned Merrick B.G. turkey. He eats meals twice a day, and I do give 4 units of insulin after his meals. In the middle of the day, around lunch time I give him a chicken jerky strip or some green beans.

One thing I'm really confused on is the diet of a diabetic dog. How do you find the right diet? Should I change what he's eating at all? Do I have to call the vet before I consider changing his food? I know the diet is essential in helping control his diabetes, and I would like to stay with the food he is on. Both vets have mentioned putting him on w/d, and I am not a fan of this food. I know that fiber plays a role in maintaining their BS, so do I need to add extra fiber to his diet? ugh, so many questions!

I do like the idea of testing him at home, because he stresses easily at the vet, maybe I'll bring this up tomorrow when he goes in for his curve, wonder what the vet will say?

Also, totally off topic, I also have a 1 year old Havanese named Fergus. I just was too tired to add him to my signature last night. He is our family clown and keeps me cursing and smiling on a daily basis

[SandyL]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Welcome Jen!!

If Harry is eating well on what your feeding, stick with it. It will be much easier to get him regulated than changing food right now Once you home test with his BG, food changes are much easier because you'll know right away what the changes are doing to his system.
All of us here on the forum have been told by our vets to switch to w/d....some have done it, others haven't. I'm in that later group. I knew my picky baby would never touch the stuff, so I never even wasted my money. There are perfectly good foods out there that don't require a perscription and are a little friendlier on the wallet As for the fiber, I usually add cooked brocolli to my Tiggys meals or a teaspoon of Benafiber (the one that's sugarfree). She also gets brocolli a few times a day as "treats", kinda makes up for the low fiber content in many of the foods.
You'll get some great information and help here especially from Natalie, Patty and Pat. These people are angles and extremly knowledgeable! You've found the right place!!!

Sandy and Tiggy

[jesse girl]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

not to many vets it appears that home testing is a good idea mine did not but did it any way and it was one of the best decisions i made for my jesse

It really should be part of the training wright there with insulin shots

a human doctor would not tell a diabetic not to home test and come in once in a while to check blood sugar and stay in the office all day to do a curve and we wont worry about whats happening at night no problem youll be fine

hopefully there will be a consensus in the near future where people will be trained at the vets office to test and not try to figure it out on there own

testing is the fastest path to regulation and keeping your baby safe. welcome to both of you

[janspack]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Hi Jennie,

Welcome to the forum. I agree with what others have said that it is important to home test Harry if you can. It is much simpler than most vets would have you believe and although there are special animal glucose monitors, they are expensive to buy and to replace the test strips.

You can buy a "human" monitor for just a few £'s (I'm a Brit LOL) and although they may not register exactly the same as a dog glucose monitor, as long as you are aware of and allow for the difference there shouldn't be any reason why you can't use it. You should be able to take it in to the vets and get him to do a test on their monitor and on your own to compare the different readings.

All of us felt like you do at the moment when our dogs were first diagnosed (I still do sometimes LOL) but you will soon get the hang of things.

I didn't change Dazzle's food even though the vets wanted me to put her on a diabetic diet. I couldn't afford a veterinary diet and have carried on with the same kibble she has been on for a long while.

I think that vets feel that most owners won't be bothered with home testing and everything it entails and so have tailored treatment protocols to suit the laziest/busiest owners. As someone else said, I can't imagine many people being happy if their doctor treated a newly diagnosed diabetic person in this way.

If you can start home monitoring it will become much clearer and easier for you. Dazzle is a very unstable diabetic because of other problems she has and I certainly couldn't manage her without doing home testing.

Anyway, you will get all the help you need from this very knowledgeable group of people.

[jenni23]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Well I am definitely going to explore the home testing route, does anyone have any favorite monitors that they prefer?? Because I am certainly lost when it comes to those! Again I really appreciate everyone being so helpful and supportive!

[MaryLea]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Welcome to the forum! You have come to a good place.

Congratulations on deciding to home test BG levels! Keeping a journal of what you feed him, insulin, and BG results--with time of day for each--also helps alot.

You will receive much support and many good suggestions here.

Again, welcome!

Mary

[Annie818]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Hi Jenny,

I just joined this website not too long ago so you're in the right place. My min pin was diagnosed a little over a month ago and this site is such a great source of information.

My dog will be turning 7 next month as well.... keep up with the posts and ask as many questions as you can think of. Everyone is really really great here.

Get all the specs on the your dog's diabetes from your new vet and post - everyone here will help you with this new chapter for you and your Harry.

Take Care,
Annie

[HarrysMom]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Jenny,
I have both AlphaTrak and One Touch - Given the price difference, I would recommend One Touch Ultra 2 - very consistent, and I don't find the numbers to be all that different from AlphaTrak.
You can buy on Amazon for $20 (meter), and strips cost around $60 for 100 - much cheaper than AlphaTrak. Make sure you get lancets that are at most 25 gauge as anything thinner may make it a bit more difficult to draw blood.

[CraigM]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Make sure you get lancets that are at most 25 gauge as anything thinner may make it a bit more difficult to draw blood.

The higher the number, the thiner the needle / lancet. I agree, avoid the 30 or 31 gauge lancets because they seem to be too thin for dogs. However 31 gauge syringes for giving the insulin are great.

[jenni23]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

Okay so I took Harry this morning for his very first curve, needless to say, his sugar was high and they are upping his insulin to 5 units twice daily. He started off with his first blood draw of the morning at 635, then it dropped to 435, 478, then 575. So he is definitely not regulated at all. I was somewhat hopeful this morning that maybe we'd get some better news than that, but I guess I wasn't being realistic. When I spoke with the vet this afternoon, he recommended the insulin increase and rechecking a curve in 2 weeks. He also would like to rule out cushing's. He also said he would like, after the second glucose curve, to teach me how to do a curve at home on my own. He even said he would check and see if he could get the monitor cheaper for me. Wow, I couldn't believe I didn't even have to ask. So I think I found a good vet that I can stick with I'll will keep you updated on Harry's progress! He did say one thing that I'm not sure of, NO treats for Harry in between meals. This is super hard, do you guys not give anything other than the two meals daily?? I mean he doesn't get unhealthy, sugary things. He likes plain, low fat greek yogurt and green beans or an EVO Wild Cravings cookie, which is grain free. I mean he looks forward to his small mid day snack. What do you guys think??

[jesse girl]

Re: Looking for support for Harry

wow your vet will help you with home testing that is great maybe there is a change in the air thumbs up to your vet