Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

[Tiki'sDad]

Hello, I'm John and my dog is Tiki. He is an 11 year old Tibetan Spaniel. Tiki had an adrenal gland with a tumor removed five weeks ago.....And now this. Anyway, the vet said we don't need a meter. Is that normal? He is 22 lbs. and I give him a shot at 8AM & 8PM...5 units of Novolin N. He has Royal Canin Diabetic dog food but he wont eat it in the morning so I am giving him Cesar. He is starving by 8PM. He's used to eating between 4 & 5PM. He's so hungry he would eat anything by 8 so Royal Canin is dinner. I give him the shots right after his meals. Then he is knocked out for hours. It's noon here now and he's still asleep. Is this normal? He sometimes has spells where he will cough a couple of times and then start panting with a crazy look in his eyes. I give him some dog treats and usually within a few minutes he snaps out of it. He seems disoriented until the snack kicks in. Does any of this make any sense or is this all normal? Thanks for any help with this.
John

[jesse girl]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

hi and welcome

thats why we test blood sugar so we know what blood sugar is doing . we are not guessing with physical symptoms which does not give a clear indication what blood sugar is doing

the best one i ever heard is you dont need to test your dog they will tell you when there blood sugar is low and showing dramatic symptoms with a hypoglycemic event . you never want to get to that point because its life threatening .

as far as the routine there can be some flexibility once a dog has established a dose that is safe to give and you are testing blood sugar at home but if your having good regulation ( something not easy to do ) you may not want to rock the boat

my jesse is on an out of the ordinary routine we did this to improve regulation and digestive issues

[CraigM]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Welcome to you and Tiki. Lunch is going on the table, so only have a minute.

Seems a lot of vets either discourage, or downright say "NO" to testing. I guess some think it might be too confusing to the new diabetic parent, are afraid the parent will make uninformed decisions, or hate to loose the $$$ their clinic might loose by not having the pup come in for frequent testing.

The question I have is what is your pup's blood glucose today? Without home testing, you would just be guessing. If a human had diabetes, or their child, I'd guarantee you the human doctor would nearly force home testing!

Time for lunch, I'm sure others will answer also. BTW, I combined your two threads, just post everything about Tiki into this one thread.

Craig

[PupsterNYC]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Hi and welcome. We were just diagnosed about a month ago too, and have been adjusting to everything.

We started testing the blood at home using an Alpha Trak 2 and it has made me feel WAY BETTER about managing the diabetes in my 9 year old dog. Now when he pants a lot or is sleepy, I can see exactly where he is. Our vet also discouraged us from testing at home, but it's the one thing that's made the situation bearable for us.

Also, I think others will chime in and tell you this too, but you have to do what will work for your dog. If you find that he is going too low in blood sugar before his 8 PM dinner, he may need a [healthy] snack. He is adjusting too, and it's hard!

Good luck. It will work out.

[Eddie]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Hello and welcome

Our dog slept a lot when first diagnosed. In fact he did little else for several weeks. I think he felt ill and it was just his way of passing the time till he felt better. He stopped sleeping excessively after a while when we got his blood sugar under better control.

We started home testing purely because of this forum but I am so glad we did. It makes the whole thing much less worrying and saves a lot of money too. We are still I think the only clients our vet has who do home testing but our vet is ok about it (though very surprised at first) and we now rely entirely on our numbers and he has not been tested by the vet for more than two years.

It is especially useful for us as our dog has rather unpredictable sudden drops in blood sugar in the late afternoon and we can't reliably tell from his behaviour if it is going to be one of those days.

Antonia

[CraigM]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Here's a link to the AlphaTrak2 website. I'm not "pushing" the AlphaTrak, but think their website has great info and videos:
http://www.alphatrakmeter.com

If you consider the AlphaTrak2, buying online like on Amazon, would likely be the least expensive (been under $60 for a couple of months). Human meters can also be used, but the reading on the meter will be slightly wrong because of the differences between human and dog blood. Either way, we can help you interpret the results.

Craig

[CraigM]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

About Tiki seeming to be starving. This is very common with high blood glucose. Basically, the body needs proper insulin to allow the pup to utilize their food. Right now, Tiki eats, digests the food, converts it to glucose, but without insulin the glucose (food) just is eliminated in the frequent urination! You could feed and feed, but without the proper insulin he will likely remain hungry and loose more weight. Of course, feeding more would just make the diabetes worse.

There are several videos on YouTube you can search for that describes all this better than I can

Craig

[Cara Sandler]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Seconding what Craig said - it is normal (though not fun to watch) for newly diagnosed dogs who are not regulated yet to be excessively hungry. Increasing his food right now will actually just make the problem worse. As he becomes better regulated, the excessive hunger will subside because he will have enough insulin in his system to use the food he is eating for energy.

[Tiki'sDad]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Wow, thanks very much for all that great information. Sorry for posting twice, but I didn't get a response right away and thought I either did something wrong or it was a poor choice I made for the title line. I will get the AlpaTrak2 unless anyone knows of one that inflicts the least pain on Tiki. I suppose they are all about the same in that respect. The vet said she didn't recommend home testing because it hurts the dog repeatedly sticking his ear. I wondered about that.
She only kept Tiki overnight for two nights (is that the norm?) to determine his insulin dosage. She said they checked him every four hours. He's much better than he was before the insulin, as all he did after his surgery was drink tons, pee tons, sleep, and look totally miserable. Everyone, including me, thought it was from the operation. It took a long time and three different vets to figure out it was diabetes.
As it stands, I'm to bring Tiki in for a blood check in a month. I'm not totally confident in this vet. Walmart rejected her prescription because she didn't put the "R" after Novolin. I didn't know it required refrigeration until after I read the instructions in the Novolin box. I told her I didn't refrigerate it right away (an hour or so) and she told me to throw it away and get another bottle. I know this is wrong from reading the Novolin directions, as were some of her injection instructions. There is one thing she said that I hope very much is bad information. That is, Tiki will for sure go blind. I know I could have Googled that and found the right answer, but I didn't for fear it's true. Tiki and I have been through some tough times since they found the tumor at CSU Veterinary Teaching Hospital. I can hardly bear the thought that every shot I give him is leading to him going blind. I suppose I would rather find out through this forum than anywhere else. It's comforting for me to know that Tiki and I have a support group here. Tiki and I are pretty much alone here in Colorado and I thank everyone very much for the information. I'm quite sure I'll have quite a few more questions.

[jesse girl]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

i am a bit concerned with your insulin as you described through the prescription

you dont want novolin R this is not something to start a diabetic dog with and can be dangerous to give a full dose . this is usually given at hospital to bring down high numbers temporarily . so maybe a miss print on the prescription . sounds like a blessing they refused the prescription

you want novolin N under the relion brand

not sure where your located but many wallmarts do not need a prescription for this insulin

[CraigM]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Totally agree with Jesse Girl! The insulin should be Novolin-N, which is considered an intermediate acting insulin that may last approximately 12 hours to be given with two meals. Novolin-R is a fast acting insulin that generally lasts about 4-5 hours. A few of us do use "R" for either special times, or after months / years of experience, but Novolin-N is the one to start with.

Also, as JG indicated most States don't require a prescription for Novolin-N (or Novolin-R) or for syringes. There are a few places that may have local laws / rules concerning these items. Would you mind telling us your location?

About the "pain" in testing. I test Annie on only her left ear - she has been tested nearly everyday, at least twice a day for the past 7.5 years!. She usually "asks" to be tested because that means it is her meal time. In fact, if I'd say: "Annie wants testing?" She would run to the kitchen (testing location) because she knows she will get either a frozen green bean or some ball playing for being a good girl!

It might be interesting if you could get her blood glucose results from the vet and post them here. Also, waiting a month before the next vet appointment, and probable insulin adjustment, seems excessive. Most vets would want to see the pup in about one week. No, we don't want to rush adjustments, but high blood glucose can make them feel crappy and do other damage.

Craig

[CraigM]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Back again

I think most human diabetics don't refrigerate the in-use vial, they just keep it at room temperature (purse, desk drawer, etc.). We refrigerate ours just because we always test & inject in the house. Re read the data sheet and I think you will see they say to refrigerate unopened vials, but once in use that isn't really needed (but most do).

Blindness. Many diabetic pups do develop eye problems, but not all. Annie went blind after about 6.5 years diabetic, but is doing great!. She still plays with her ball (follows the sound of the bounced ball / scent), goes for walks, jumps up / off furniture just like a sighted dog. Yes, she gets excited when the UPS guy stops and she might run into a wall, but she just takes a step back and then continues on her way to protect us from the UPS guy!. I'm actually much closer to diabetic Annie than any of our previous dogs (or possibly even our human children).

Craig

[Tiki'sDad]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

My mistake...It's N

[Tiki'sDad]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure how I confused the N to R. When I made the initial post, I put Novolin N. That's great news about the blindness, the vet said it was a sure thing. He's almost 12 now so 6.5 years sounds good. The breed expectancy is 13-14 although I hope he lasts much longer than that. I told the Walmart that it was Novolin N and I also had a coupon. They refused that also because it was for an animal and not a person. I think I'll try a different pharmacy. I'll try to get the blood glucose results from the vet tomorrow. I have another question...Does he absolutely have to eat a meal before his injection. He's been requiring a lot of coaxing for his morning meal and almost totally refused it this morning. Dinner is a different story. He is starving by 8PM and will eat just fine. I will order the meter from Amazon tonight. Thanks again.

[amydunn19]

Re: Tiki just diagnosed with diabetes...sleeps a lot.

To give a full injection, he needs to eat. Is this a new problem with new food or has he always been reluctant in the morning? Are you putting anything yummy on top to entice him? I boil chicken - actually for the non-diabetic dog to eat but I put some on Maggie's food too. Have you tried some canned food?

You can usually safely give 1/4 of the dose without food but I would feel much better about that when you get a meter and can test.