Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum
 

Go Back   Diabetes in Dogs: The k9diabetes.com Forum > Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog

Diabetes Discussion: Your Dog Anything related to your diabetic dog.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-17-2017, 07:53 AM
CyphersAdvocate CyphersAdvocate is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default Cypher's Story

Good evening all,

My name is Simone and I'm glad I've found this place.
Cypher's story is fairly complicated - my vets are telling me he is a rather rare/uncommon diabetic dog.

I'll try and keep this brief.
Jan 2016 (age 11) - Diagnosed with Megaoesophagus (a secondary disease of Myasthenia Gravis), xrayed to confirm and ran bloods to check levels for anything else. All normal - sent home with a 30 day course of a specific AB designed to prevent any possible aspiration pneumonia occurring. All fine.
We started feeding smaller, easier to chew meals and fed him from a raised platform. Apart from a change in his bark and his breathing getting loud when excited and exercising he was our usual boy whose motto in life is Play, play play. He truly thinks he's a young dog still. Had a good year in managing this with only one flare up lasting 12 hours.

December 2016 - just before Xmas, noticed a bit wobbly on back legs, suspected maybe some arthritis was raising it's head. He is now 12 and did have an active agility career from 2 to 8 years. By Xmas eve I thought this is something more than arthritis. Of course we were away with him and didn't get him into the vet until Dec 31st. Vet took bloods, asked about his peeing and drinking. We'd noticed increase in peeing but with 3 other Border Collies in the house hadn't noticed how much more he was drinking. His BG was 13. Around 235 in US terms. We had to sent bloods off and as it was NYE we had to wait for results.

January 2017 - He was back on the 3rd of Jan for another check. Still 235. Plus ketones in blood and urine. Vet felt he was borderline - so put him on Caninsulin 5units once a day. Said to bring him back and leave him for a day on curves after a week. Fructosamine came in at 595. I said does he need to come in sooner/change his insulin? No we can keep him on the once a day till we do the curves. Ok. On the Friday he had a collapse in the back end. And struggled to walk. We were away but my mother in law took him in...vet simply checked his BG - it was 14/255. She checked him over. And then sent him home. Just keep monitoring. Saturday he picked up and could walk on his own steam again. Monday morning his back legs collapsed under him 3 times. He could no longer walk without a towel and us helping him. He was still peeing and drinking fine.

Long story short - we ended up in Emergency, he stayed in ICU over night and they worked him up in the medicine department this was last Tuesday. I brought him home Tuesday night. The specialist vets working him up, (MRI and CT and tests for Myasthenia gravis, toxoplasmosis, neosporosis) started him on a twice a day dose (after being baffled about the once a day protocol - yeah I'm still stewing on this one) and by Wednesday morning he got up off his own steam, wobbly and tiring quickly but without help and toileted and sniffed around. It seems it is diabetic neuropathy.

His dose got changed today after we inserted a sensor (Freestyle Libre) and I took his curves for the last 3 days. He's now on 7 units twice a day. I've just given him his 7unit dose tonight so I think I'll be staying up to make sure he doesn't go too low. He's still very wobbly and gets tired super fast, no improvement there but after seeing him looking half paralysed I'm still grateful for his mobility. I've been trying to read up on the Methylcobalamin B12 and seeing if that would make any difference even if it's established that his pancreas is doing ok. The specialist is still not convinced it's diabetic neuropathy - but the other theory Myasthenia Gravis or peripheral neuropathy involves electro diagnostics and nerve-muscle biopsies under General Anaesthetic. Pretty painful and invasive. We're going to see if we can get his levels regulated for a consistent amount of time to see if that helps first. This is Cy last Monday.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-17-2017, 04:34 PM
CyphersAdvocate CyphersAdvocate is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default Re: Cypher's Story

Oh and I meant to say - Cypher is an unsterilised Border Collie who currently is underweight at 39lbs. He usually weighs in at just under 44lbs so we are trying to get weight on him. His meals are twice a day and around 400kcal each.

He's been checked for Cushings, Addisons, Hyperthyroidism and Pancreatitis, whilst his liver enzymes were mildly elevated his renal function is fine.

Diagnosed 3rd Jan 2017.
Megaoesophagus dx Jan 2016.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-17-2017, 06:00 PM
tonyr tonyr is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cornwall U.K
Posts: 153
Default Re: Cypher's Story

Hi Cypher,
Can you tell me who advised the Freestyle Libre for testing your dog.
Are you aware that human blood and dogs blood are different.
You must be the first person I have seen using this latest technology on your dog for testing.
You say the vet calibrated the meter for your dog ?
Is that possible ?
I thought you just set the range you are working in.

Did your vet instruct you on how often to test.
I am sorry if I have more questions than answers but it is not clear how much you know.
You should be checking his blood say every 2 hrs during the day to establish what is known as a blood glucose curve.
The meals in your case again may not follow the norm as you may have other issues to consider and I can only mention the Standard Protocol.
But I will say they are normally 2 meals the same size 12 hrs apart, and usuall a low fat version of whatever he likes just to start with, not too high protein or fibre I would say to begin with until things are more clearer.

I hope this helps a bit
This starts just before first feed, then every 2 hrs right up until his 2nd meal.
These feeds should be the same and spaced 12 hrs apart.
This will then show what his called his B.G curve.
Normally people would be quite happy if they could get their figures between say 100 to 250, to convert from USA measurement divide by 18.

He may need time to settle down if he has been running very high recently, but you should see marked improvement certainly within a week if it's only diabetes.

I cannot advise on the other medical matters, I am out of my depth, but Hopefully Natalie will be along to give her perspective.
Are you in the U.K by any chance ?.

I am in the U.K and it's well past bed time, but if your worried and staying up please post any blood figures you are getting that look worrying and someone should advise.

Last edited by tonyr; 01-17-2017 at 06:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-18-2017, 07:16 AM
tonyr tonyr is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cornwall U.K
Posts: 153
Default Re: Cypher's Story

Hi Simone,
How did you get on with his testing ?.
I hope you don't mind but I was curious about this meter you have used.
I put the question to Abbot themselves, and here is the reply I got :-

Q. Can the Freestyle Libre be set up for a dog who has twice daily insulin injections so we can monitor his blood glucose levels.

Ans. Thank you for your e-mail.
The Freestyle Libre system is designed to be used only by humans, and so it was not tested with dogs.
It has come to our attention that some companies design the products to be used with diabetic animals, yet for more information you should try searching the internet.
If you require any furhter assistance, please feel free to contact our Customer Careline Team on 0500 467 466 or again by email on
ADCHelpUK@abbott.com

Yours sincerely,
Mike
Customer Care Team
Abbott Diabetes Care UK
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-18-2017, 07:27 AM
CyphersAdvocate CyphersAdvocate is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default Re: Cypher's Story

Hi Tony

Yes I'm aware the Freestyle Libre is for human testing. This one has been utilised by these vet specialists (Murdoch University Veterinary Hospital) to give very detailed info over the space of a week. I am also sending through the curve readings via email to my specialist. I asked about accuracy of the numbers and was sent a study that compared the Libre to the reference laboratory (the lab this University Vet Hospital uses for the most on point BG results) The Libre numbers showed overall as a touch higher but still pretty close, I think my Lite strips have been well under. Cypher spent an hour there after the insertion to make sure the sensor was calibrated with the Vet Hospital Lab results. I will move onto an Alpha Trak at the conclusion of the use of the sensors.

With the reader I can check it hourly. I'm doing that when I'm home and then every 2 hourly if I'm not. I go back to work next week so readings will drop to 5 times a day.

At the moment he is still getting enough calories in - over 400kcal each meal morning and night - 7am and 7pm. He's having a mix of pumpkin, chicken, some 4800 Royal Canin (high calorie biscuits) plus some Eagle Pack Lamb kibble all soaked in some warm water. I'm gonna start blending that all up as he's tiring quickly getting through the bowl. Happy to receive any further suggestions about how to increase calories without A. Increasing the amount of food and B. Choosing foods not advised for diabetic dogs.

His numbers are all over the place:
6.30am - 21.2 (380)
6.50am 20.4 (370)
8.10am - 20.4 (370)
9.15am - 13.4 (240)
10am - 15.2 (270)
11.10am - 13.7 (245)
12.40pm - 17.5 (315)
1.40pm - 21.3 (380)
5.20pm - 23.3 (420)
6.40pm - 23.4 (425)
8.15pm - 24.6 (440)
9.15pm - 23.6 (425)
10.15pm -19.9 (350)

The vet has said we're aiming to keep him between 5 and 14. Early days so hopefully more success after some time at 7 units twice a day. Which will hopefully mean some weight gain and strength coming back to his hind muscles.

Thanks for your reply.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-18-2017, 07:37 AM
jesse girl's Avatar
jesse girl jesse girl is offline
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,424
Default Re: Cypher's Story

wow thats very interesting with this new system and shows your veterinary people are making that next step in testing blood sugar whats nice about it you get those late night early morning numbers while your dog sleeps giving you a clearer picture of whats going on

giving additional information to your vet on exercise and other activity even given a bath may help to explain specific fluctuations in blood sugar at certain times as things like this can drop blood sugar

If the numbers compare well to a lab analyzer your good to go

I have used a human meter for 7 years on jesse and it has done well
__________________
Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-18-2017, 07:41 AM
CyphersAdvocate CyphersAdvocate is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default Re: Cypher's Story

Well so far it's going okay. And Cypher's a fan of not having his ear pricked every few hours that's for sure. So I will stay up probably till about 11.30 tonight and check it just before bed. It seems to be on the downward slide. Then I'll set my alarm for 2am to do another check. The vet informed me that the most common time for hypo occurrences unfortunately seems to be that 12 to 3am time phase.

Tomorrow I'll take a photo of where the sensor is placed. This is further info from my vet on how long they work in the paper she sent to me. I am happy to upload it here.
Simone
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-18-2017, 07:45 AM
CyphersAdvocate CyphersAdvocate is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default Re: Cypher's Story

I've just uploaded the paper to my Google drive.

here's the link to view it, let me know if it doesn't work.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzW...ew?usp=sharing

Cheers
Simone
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-18-2017, 07:57 AM
CyphersAdvocate CyphersAdvocate is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 12
Default Re: Cypher's Story

Thanks Jesse Girl

Unfortunately Cypher is not getting much exercise at all. His spirit is willing but his back legs won't hold up that long. He can totter (and I mean totter, very wobbly) from inside to outside and around our yard, doing his business and checking out the business of my other 3 border collies...but eventually he either sits or drops after a fairly short time because he seems to just know, he either rests a bit or his legs will collapse on him. It's incredibly hard to watch - he was a 12 year old running round my agility arena just a few short weeks ago doing tunnels and tiny jumps and running up a dog walk. Chasing his frisbee and his cage ball. And right now even just lying down he will play with his front paws and use his mouth to catch and tug and bat his toys. But he's really missing his normal mobility. But I also remember those horrible 2 days when he literally couldn't get his back legs to do anything. So I'll take the wobbly and tiring fast and look out carefully for the teeny tiny improvements (and yes the possibility of regressing) and try and keep his spirit up and get some weight on him. I know 12 is no spring chicken but for this dog who has never once acted his age it's also way too young to be this debilitated.



Thanks
Simone
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-18-2017, 07:57 AM
tonyr tonyr is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Cornwall U.K
Posts: 153
Default Re: Cypher's Story

Hi Simone,
It seems like you can teach a few old dogs on here some new tricks so I will not interfere.
Your choice of the Alphatrack 2 is spot on for me, and you will be able to put those Lite strips you have to good use also in that meter when things are settled down saving you some money.

I will not recommend any particular foods as I am still not sure where you are located, but you seem to be on top of things, WELL DONE SIMONE.

Hopefully Natalie the Administrator will pick up your post soon and give her suggestions on the other matters .
Good luck with everything you are doing great.
I love all the Photos, keep em coming.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:07 AM.


Disclaimer -- The content on this site is provided for informational and educational purposes only. While we make every effort to present information that is accurate and reliable, the views expressed here are not meant to be a substitute for the advice provided by a licensed veterinarian. Please consult with your veterinarian for specific advice concerning the medical condition or treatment of your pet and before administering any medication or pursuing any course of treatment that you may read about on this site.

The views and opinions expressed by contributors to this forum are strictly their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and views of the owners, administrators, or moderators of this forum and the k9diabetes.com website.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2009, 2010 k9diabetes.com. All rights reserved.