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Old 08-01-2017, 10:30 AM
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bichons9 bichons9 is offline
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Unhappy Vet concurs that NPH may be a problem: Back to 2X day diet

I did not anticipate the diagnosis of 10 y.o. Suzie (chihuahua) yesterday. She is in the hospital being treated for Septicemia and KETOACIDOSIS. even though I am not a "cat" person, I took in 2 cats years ago with one becoming a diabetic that I treated with Lantus and 24/7 glucose monitoring and lifesaving care by FDMB members. Elliott (the cat) has been in remission for 1 year+ but learned that dog treatment of D.M. is quite different from that of cats. In addition, when informing my DVM that I would order Lantus from a colleague, he asked me to "wait"..that Lantus is not necessarity the right insulin for dogs. I did not mean to "jump the gun" but wanted to have everything ready for her to come home. Suzie was admitted to the hospital yesterday. I called to check on her and was told that she is stable? but are trying to regulate her BG. The septicemia was not addressed. Thanks for letting me share. I will look through posts in order to prepare myself for what to expect when Suzie arrives home..

Last edited by bichons9; 08-01-2017 at 10:41 AM. Reason: trying to remove exclamation point
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:41 AM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

Hi and welcome to the forum to you and Suzie

Sounds like your vet has things under control for the moment.

You'll find that diabetes in dogs is similar to human type 1 diabetes and injected insulin is basically taking the place of their pancreas, which no longer produces insulin.

Most of the dogs here are on Novolin N or Vetsulin, injected every 12 hours after eating. Novolin N is by far the least expensive at $25 per vial at Walmart.

There's a sticky here that should help out in managing Suzie's diabetes...

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=656

Keep us posted. The folks here are very knowledgeable and helpful.
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine

Last edited by MikeMurphy; 08-01-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

Welcome to you and Susie! She is precious! Yes, diabetes in dogs is not like feline diabetes. Unlike cats, there is no remission. But, the good news is she can live a normal life span with a bit more structure. Lantus is not really well suited to dogs but as Mike said, you can get NPH insulin and your needles at Wal Mart for significant savings. NPH and vetsulin are intermediate acting insulin which should last 10-12 hours. Keep her at consistent eating/dosing schedule. Two meals, 12 hours apart followed by insulin.

It also is very helpful to test blood sugar. Did you monitor blood sugar with your cat? It saved my dog.

How much does she weigh? Is she spayed?
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:39 AM
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bichons9 bichons9 is offline
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Default Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

Thanks..I am still up worrying-not use (in animals) top NPH and Suzie not as easy as poking for BG. But I finally of figured out how to make another spreadsheet which really helped. What I don't understand is how the nadir would be 6 hours when NPH simply lasts that long and Lantus has a 6 hour nadir??? Oh well no worries..I am an expert at "worrying" Thanks for the nice welcome!!!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets.../edit#gid=0..I am trying to do it like the cat spreadsheet below
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=361360320
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Old 08-04-2017, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

with my jesse she could get 16 hours off nph without a food influence . it may be be longer but this is where it will sit for her . once food and insulin shot is given that time clock appears to end

interesting spreadsheet on your kitty . i like using color to give levels in blood sugar

i have seen one member use lantus successfully. jesse used it for 3 days and if i seen a change for the better we may have continued as her regulation was unstable at the time . of course she was not on it long enough to draw any conclusions
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:05 AM
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MikeMurphy MikeMurphy is offline
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Default Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

How is Suzie doing. Is she out of the hospital yet?

Here's a good reference on the duration of various human insulins...

https://provider.ghc.org/open/caring...thActivity.pdf

Keep in mind that this is based on how humans typically process insulin.

It seems that every dog is different on how they process insulin and this shows in what their BG curves look like. Some dogs have a bowl shaped curve, where their low BG number(nadir) is 6 hours after insulin. Others have a mountain shaped curve, where their lows are at fasting. My Lily's curve is shaped like a dipper, where her nadir is 10 hours after insulin.

My goal is to keep Lily's blood glucose in the 100s and 200s most of the day. It's a delicate balance of food, insulin and exercise.
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Lily is a 62 lb English Setter, born 07-27-2007.
Diabetes: Aug 2013 - Hypothyroidism: Dec 2013 - Cataract Surgery: Feb 2014
Insulin: Novolin R/N mix - Meter: ReliOn Prime
Nulo Adult Trim Cod & Lentils, Pumpkin, FortiFlora, Dasuquin, Thyroxine

Last edited by MikeMurphy; 08-04-2017 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:28 PM
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Default Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

NPH lasted about 10 hours with Maggie in the beginning but when we added more meals because of pancreatitis, it seemed to last longer. Some dogs on NPH have their lowest point before the next shot. So, sometimes, you just see how it is for your dog and try to design a schedule of a food combo that will work or try a combo of R and N or try vetsulin. There is no one size fits all.
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Maggie - 15 1/2 y/o JRT diagnosed 9/2007, Angel status on 6/20/16. Her mantra was never give up but her body couldn't keep up with her spirit. Someday, baby.......
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:00 AM
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bichons9 bichons9 is offline
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Exclamation Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

I am in a PANIC!!!..1/2 dose yesterday-refused to eat..Then, spoon fed Suzie until 10pm BG=444,gave NPH 5u, BG 125 3h later, at 6:27am BG 531, 571, 593..DVM ordered NPH 5 u no food required..NOW WHAT??? .Help..In medicine, we never expect NPH to last more than 4-6 hours..How does it then peak at 6 hours?? Has anyone seen the few studies on Lantus on dogs= predictable vs unpredictable? Her spreadsheet below.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...kSM/edit#gid=0
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:18 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is offline
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Default Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

if not eating normally you cant expect numbers to be consistent

for my jesse she can get a quarter of the normal dose without any food

for me if a dog doesnt want to eat i dont force it give a reduced dose and maybe test a bit more . if it goes on longer than comfortable with get a vet visit

pancreatitis is a complication of the disease so something to look out for with appitite problems

numbers look great on the 3rd
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Jesse-26 lbs - 16 years old ,10.5 years diabetic, one meal a day homemade and a vitabone snack . 3 shots of Novolin a day . Total insulin for a 24 hour period is 6.5 units of NPH insulin .
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Old 08-05-2017, 08:36 AM
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bichons9 bichons9 is offline
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Default Re: SUZIE in Hospital-Ketoacidosis and Septicemia

Thanks for reply. I am not use to the message board yet. I am not a cat person but when reluctantly taking 2 brothers, one got DM..I got so use to FDMB because it was world wide, I had replies to help is seconds..never needed to call DVM after that. They knew much better than my DVM. I am in no way criticizing. I am simply justifying my panic state I guess??Also, Suzie is not as easy as cat was on insulin. DVM said to change 12hrs now to 7pm..I only know about humans when using rainbow orders by MD (adjusting dose). DVM said that the 1/2 dose ordered yesterday due to her refusal to eat at that time caused the high glucose. They said Suzie loved the Prescription Hill's chicken stew..If it was an non-diabetic dog, I could say she'll get hungry enough to eat..but can't do it with an insulin diabetic? She ate some boiled chicken breast but DVM said add rice for carbohydrates if she won't eat prescription dog food. I never expected that 595 BG after it being 125 3 hours earlier. You mention the pancreas..There is inflammation I think and WBC has not decreased from 30,000. I am wondering if by Monday they will want to sonogram the pancreas. If "real" pancreas issues, are there blood values I can check since, after becoming quite upset with DVM, they sent me ALL of her blood values for life. Thanks for reading. Poor Suzie is probably sensing my extreme anxiety that now exists from not knowing what to do or what comes next. I will read to learn more of your message board if I can sit down for a little while. Thanks again..Fran (not so quick reply..sorry)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...kSM/edit#gid=0

Last edited by bichons9; 08-05-2017 at 09:19 AM. Reason: add signature
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