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Old 02-26-2013, 05:25 AM
Danielle N's Avatar
Danielle N Danielle N is offline
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Location: Oshawa, ON Canada
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Default Managing Diabetes and EPI

Hi everyone, we're new here.
Ollie is a 9.5yr old Silky Terrier, his current weight is 13lbs. He had an acute case of pancreatitis in 2009 and almost died. Thankfully he did not but it certainly took its toll on his pancreas. He was diagnosed with epi last April and most recently in December he was diagnosed with diabetes. We started him on 2units twice a day of Humulin N. Initially this seemed to work but over the last month or so he has been swinging all over the place. He can go from 24 down to 3 in a day...it's these swings that concern me. He eats Hills W/D and Hills I/D mixed together (he is a super fussy eater) along with some beef and broth baby food that has his enzymes mixed in.
The vet told me it was fine to leave a bowl of kibble out so if he hungry during the day he can eat....I'm now wondering if this is such a good idea!!!
We made it all the way up to 4+ units twice a day and his numbers were still very high. Last weekend he wasn't feeling well and he crashed..all the way down to 2.4. This started a vicious cycle that I don't know how to stop.
We are down to 3 units twice a day and no kibble. I'm just so confused, is it the enzymes? is it the kibble? or is he resisting this insulin?
I have alot of data that I can post but I just don't even know where to start, I feel like I am not winning this battle and I'm terrified of the damage this is doing to his little body
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:24 AM
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jesse girl jesse girl is online now
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Default Re: Managing Diabetes and EPI

hi and welcome

oh it can be challenging especially with an epi dog there are some others on the forum with this challenge

i believe any dog even with the additional challenges can have pretty good blood sugar just may take a bit more work

are you home testing blood sugar if not that is the place to start to begin to figure things out

if you could post some curves with some good blood sugar and the eating and shot arrangements and some curves with this free feeding approach would be helpful curves can give allot of information not just if numbers are high or low

free feeding could be problematic but a curve can tell us that post what you can
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:39 AM
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Abby's Mom Abby's Mom is offline
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Default Re: Managing Diabetes and EPI

Danielle,

Welcome.... We love long posts. The more information the better. I agree with Jesse Girl, post some readings if you are blood testing, as this gives a good pictures.

If Ollie is getting too much insulin, things can go up and down, and sometimes a reduction in insulin can straighten this out... but of course this is just speculation at this point, but if he was doing ok on 2 units, the 4 and 3units may be just too much.

Hang in there... you have a come to a great place.

Anxiously awaiting your post.

Barb
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Barb & Abby 12/24/1999-12/31/2013 ~ dx 5/10/2011 ~ Forever in my heart ~
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:16 AM
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Danielle N Danielle N is offline
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Default Re: Managing Diabetes and EPI

I will get my logbook out tonight and post his curves. I am home testing, I was using the Freestyle Lite meter for the first month and was surprised at how well he was doing.....well not exactly. Tara urged me to compare against another meter and thank god she did....it was 10 (180) points lower than what his actual BG really was. I now use the One Touch Ultra and the Freestyle has found its place in the garbage
We stopped free feeding him on Sunday and have maintained his dose at 3 - 3.5 units twice a day...depending on my reading before injection. The last 2 mornings he was 15 and last evening at supper he was 8.5. I just had my husband check him now and he's 19....??? I'm so confused!!
I will post his previous curves later this evening. Thank you to everyone on this forum I feel like I'm walking around in the dark. I've made some fantastic contacts on EPI4dogs and it seems we have kind of migrated over here..all experiencing diabetes related issues.

Last edited by Danielle N; 02-26-2013 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:38 PM
Danielle N's Avatar
Danielle N Danielle N is offline
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Default Re: Managing Diabetes and EPI

Here we go...sorry if this is a long one but I'm going to put all our info out here and hope someone has some insight. We are so confused with his BG results.
Diagnosed at the end of Dec 2012, BG = 30
started on Humulin N - 2 units 2x a day
BG checked 3 days later and he was 12.
We purchased the Freestyle Lite meter for home testing...what a mistake. It cost us a month of low dosing because we thought he was under 10 most of the time. It was off by 10 so he was actually around 20 for the month of January. We are now using the One Touch Ultra
Ollie has EPI as well so he has powdered enzymes with his meal. His enzymes have a smell and he decided he would rather starve than eat the treated food. We started putting it in either Chicken or Beef with Broth babyfood and then mixing it in his food. Because of this we have 2 different foods (he is a very fussy eater) Hills I/D and Hills W/D wet, the kibble is Royal Canine Moderate Calorie.
We stopped feeding him lunch near the end of January based on elevated readings after lunch. I really thought this would help stabilize him but it hasn't.
Feb 4th we increased his dose to 3 units 2x a day.
He was still having a bowl of kibble through out the day. Sometimes he would eat it early afternoon or after dinner. Kind of random really.
Feb 9th - increased to 3.5 2x a day.

Feb 10th looked like this:

7am (before breaky) bg=19.9
7am breaky
7:15 - 3.5 units
9am bg = 19.2
11am bg = 17.7
12pm bg = 15.9
1:15pm bg = 18.8
5pm bg = 20.5
5:15 supper and 3.5 units insulin

Feb 11th - increased to 4units
6am bg = 17.8
breaky and 4units
12:15pm bg = 17.9

random spot checks, same routine and timing of injection every day
Feb 12
12:15 bg = 17.9

Feb 14
4:45pm bg = 24.1
4 units at 5:30pm
9pm bg = 16.6
started a 7 day course of Metranidazole

Feb 15
same routine but he threw up after i went to work..2 or 3 times.
He ate his dinner normally so I dosed him normally.
at 7:30 he threw up again and I decided to check his bg...it was 3.4. I gave him some corn syrup and by 8:45 he was up to 11.9.
This scared the crap out of me!!!!
Feb 16
before breaky bg = 8.8
2 units insulin after breaky
5pm bg = 20.9
supper and 4 units insulin

Next morning same routine and 4 units
10:45am bg = 2.7
corn syrup again
11:25am bg = 5.5
12:40pm bg = 11.7
3:30 small bowl of kibble
4:30 bg = 18.4
5:30 supper and 3 units
8:30bg = 18.1

Feb 18
breaky and 3.5 units
9:30am bg = 17.2
5pm bgt = 19.1
supper and 3.5 units
8:30 bg= 6.1

did some randoms during the 4 days but nothing stood out, mostly all high

Feb 23
breaky and 3.5 units
8:45bg = 21
1pm bg = 12.1
4:30pm bg = 4.9

stopped feeding him kibble on the 25th

Feb 26
6am bg = 15.4
breaky and 3.5 units
11am bg = 19.1
pm bg = 17.1

and here I am thoroughly confused...sorry, I know that is a ton of information. I feel like 4 units was too much but could he of crashed due to being under the weather. It seems like I'm heading back to that dose and it scares the crap out of me....why can't I stabilize him???
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Managing Diabetes and EPI

actually to me things look quite promising my jesse has come from a challenging place and this is not even close to terrible

it looks like there may have been some overlap from one period to the next seeing those lower numbers after shot but with the free feeding that may have muddled the waters

the last curve is a real improvement a little elevated but fairly flat any thing less than 5.5 from high to low is really good and you did see this

i would stick with the 3.5 for now monitor closely to see if you get any low numbers if so you may have to give less insulin for one of the 12 hour periods and if the pattern dictates that would be the dose before you saw that low

many do give different amounts and sometimes it can be fairly dramatic

i think your doing great and so is you pup stay the coarse you will see the light at the end of the tunnel it takes time
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