My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

[Nan's Pups]

I am much saddened by news today. Poor M.J. (Muggs Junior) has got diabete. From his all of sudden excessive drinking and peeing, I already suspected that but was not certain. I was going to bring him to the vet last week, but our very trusted vet past away from cancer, I had to search for a new vet that I felt comfortable with.

After a giant vet bill, on the way home. I tried so hard not to cry in the car. Poor little thing sat in the back without knowing what happened.

I am an animal rescuer. I have lots of animals on hand and I have tons of experiences of taking care of sick animals but I have never had one with diabete. I am worried, worry about M.J. worry about the expenses (don't get me wrong, I will spend whatever he needs, but sometimes, with that many animals around, I just don't have it even if I don't eat).

I am hear to listen, to learn from all you guys. All your knowledge is precious to me now. Thanks,

[CraigM]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

Welcome to the forum. I moved your post into "Diabetes Discussion: Your dog" where more folks might see it We generally like to keep a pup in a personal thread so that all the info / history is easy to follow. There may be a short delay from when you post a comment until you see it on the forum until Natalie, the forum owner, approves your membership (I've sent her a message telling her you are here, so she will likely get in-touch with you later today).

Tell us as much as you can about M.J.. What insulin are you using, his weight, starting dosage, food served, really anything at all. We love hearing about the new "kids" on the forum

Craig

[Nan's Pups]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

M.J. Born on Jan 16th 2008. Rat Terrier, 18lbs, male, intact.

Humulin: 3 unit twice daily. I went to Walmart pharmacy, they gave me Novolin instead. The Pharmacist says they are the same thing. The syringes the pharmacy sold to me have short needles, 8mm, different from what they've showed me in the vet's office. Not sure if it matters, I know dog skin is thin about 1/3 of human's.

Amoxcillin for 14 days.

Royal Canin Veterinary Diet Gastrointestinal Low Fat Canned Dog Food - this is what I am not sure about.

The vet bill is still about $500, that's after I insisted the vet write prescriptions for the insulin and antibiotics and sent to Publix and Walmart pharmacies. I got antibiotics for free under Publix's programm. Call me frugal, I don't have just one or two dogs. I have a bunch, plus cats, plus horses...

[amydunn19]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

Hi and welcome to you and MJ!

I know diabetes seems overwhelming but you will become a pro in no time. One thing to consider is testing his blood sugar at home. It can save you money on vet bills and you have better peace of mind about how he is doing.

Prescription food is not a requirement by any means. The food you previously fed may be fine. Just about everyone here feeds a different food - the most important thing is for him to eat without a struggle. What were you feeding before?

What is the amoxicillian for - an infection?

This forum is full of knowledge and experience - there are always people to bounce ideas off of or just vent or cry about diabetes. It can be frustrating but it is totally doable, even on a budget.

[CraigM]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

Humulin: 3 unit twice daily. I went to Walmart pharmacy, they gave me Novolin instead. The Pharmacist says they are the same thing. The syringes the pharmacy sold to me have short needles, 8mm, different from what they've showed me in the vet's office. Not sure if it matters, I know dog skin is thin about 1/3 of human's.

Novolin-N is what many of us use because of the low cost contract at Walmart. $25 for Novolin-N at Walmart compared to about $100 for Humulin-N at other pharmacies.

I also use the short 8mm syringes (30 unit capacity). Also less expensive at Walmart. These are usually great for our smaller pups because they have ½ unit marks for small dose changes. As you adjust MJ's dosage, you might have to estimate 1/4 units!

As Amy mentioned, home blood testing can be a big help in getting MJ regulated. Probably for the cost of one vet visit you could get a home meter and enough test strips for a month. Many choices for meters, many here use the human One Touch Ultra with good results. For lowest cost, online (Amazon is my friend) shopping can be much less expensive than local stores. The exception would be the Walmart ReliOn Prime meter & test strips which are the same price at the store as on their website.

Here's an article that might be helpful: http://www.2ndchance.info/diabetesdog.htm

Craig

[CraigM]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

Not being pushy, but wanted to show you the One Touch Ultra meter. Less than $20 at Amazon, but probably $75-100 in local stores. Test strips are less expensive online also.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...ra%2Caps%2C289

Craig

[Nan's Pups]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

I'll go with the AlphaTrak2

[Nan's Pups]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

Talking about meters, what about this in Walmart?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/ReliOn-Pri...ingMethod=p13n

I can pick it up tomorrow, don't have to wait for shipping.

[parje1]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

I wanted to welcome you to the forum. I'm pretty new here too...my pup was diagnosed a month ago. This forum is a life saver. There are folks on here that know everything from what to look for, how to save money, how to get you through the hard days, etc.

It does feel overwhelming at first but I am starting to get into a routine. I test at home using the AlphaTrak.

You might also post the city where you are looking for a vet. There is probably someone on here that knows a good vet in the area.

-Jen

[Riliey and Mo]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

The best way to control your pups diabetes is to monitor the blood sugar at home with a glucose meter, glucose strips that match the meter, lancets. 3 units is a good start but a low dose for an 18 lb doggie. Testing will be ideal right now.

Especially taking antibiotics. Wheres the infection.? Why did the vet rx an antibiotic? Medications raise blood sugar good time to home test

All the learning tools are here in the site for you along with videos to show you where and how to test your dog.

This will tell you how much insulin to give your dog.

Its also important to feed your pup whatever he or she will gulp down and enjoy. If they dont eat it dont force it. Obviously they dont like that food. My opinion why add a topper to make them eat. Change their food to anything they will like to eat. I went to my local pet store for info on feeding my diabetic dog.

For now its good not to feed store bought treats till you get more info etc. Ingredients, manufacturer. Lots of veggies for treats.

Its part of the program to walk your dog three times a day. This will bring their blood sugar down and avoid organ problems. Dogs need to be active at least 3 times a day. They need to move wheras cats metabolism dont need walking.

Patients, go slow, monitor test. feed, exercise.
Feed every 12 hours, inject after food

[Eddie]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

Hello and welcome

I'll leave Craig to reply to your query about which meter to get but I'd certainly recommend home testing. When our dog was first diagnosed it seemed like we lived at the vet and it cost a fortune. Now we rarely go there and the vet prescribes insulin(need a prescription here in UK) based on the numbers we show him from our own readings. It puts you very much more in control in all sorts of ways.

Many vets don't seem to know about or necessarily approve of home testing. our vet did not mention it and I only started because I came across this site and a kind lady sent me a spare meter to get me started. Our vet was surprised but eventually supportive. you don't need their permission or anything but it is nicer if they are on board.

As others have said, many manage quite well on a huge variety of foods. We just kept feeding the same as we had done before diagnosis because our dog has another digestive problem and we didn't want to upset that. The main thing is that you need to know they will definitely eat it day after day.

We use freeze dried lungs as treats too. We chop them into fairly small pieces (inch square or so) and use them as treats after testing etc. You can also use bits of pure meat protein or hard boiled egg perhaps. Protein based food is not likely to upset their blood sugar especially of it is fed in tiny pieces.

It does all get much easier!
Antonia

[amydunn19]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

So, there is no infection and he just prescribed antibiotics because diabetic dogs "always" have infections? Oh my.....as far as medicated spray and shampoo, if there is no active skin infections, why load up your bill unnecessarily? Do you have any other potential vets in your area ? If you stay with this one, I would tell him that the unnecessary things have to stop. There is no reason to pay for things your dog doesn't need. And giving your dog antibiotics with no active infection is not good for them - diabetics do get infections frequently so to avoid antibiotic resistance, they shouldn't have antibiotics unless they need them. Kids get infections all the time, too but we don't give them antibiotics just in case.

As far as a meter, the Relion is not as accurate so you have to convert the number using a little math formula. Not a big deal but can be unnerving. I use the One Touch Ultra - it seems to be the most accurate human meter for dogs. There is a meter for animals called the Alphatrack but the strips and the meter are more expensive and you have to order the strips. You should order the strips for the One Touch because they are cheaper on ebay or Amazon but if you are in a bind, you can always go get strips at wal mart. Jmo....

You don't need the vet's permission to test at home. They don't usually encourage testing. Some are concerned it would be overwhelming, others are afraid you might start adjusting insulin without their input or over-react, and some want you coming in for those expensive curves and tests.

Dog diabetes is different than human diabetes as dogs are type 1 diabetics. Dogs do best on a consistent schedule day after day. I usually reserve treats for testing and you can find treats that don't raise blood sugar. Green beans, freeze dried meat, boiled chicken, or boiled eggs.

[farrwf]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

Hello and welcome to you & M.J.

I join the others in wondering about your vet padding your bill with very questionable items.

On the plus side, ... you've found the "hands down" best place on the planet for canine diabetes information, advice and support.

[Monsters Momma]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

Welcome!!

I can only echo what the others have said about testing, insulin, antibiotics, feeding...I guess that about covers your posts! You have found a great site and have some sound advice. This new vet needs to be respectful of the resources you have. Maybe you should explain to him the potential other clients he has if he can work with you on MJ.

The biggest savings we have found is testing at home. We have never had a curve done at the vets. Lots of info here http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=15 especially the video's here http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2243

Good luck!! We're here when you need us!
Mel

[Nan's Pups]

Re: My M.J. Has Diabete - Just Found Out Today

If meter is that important, I really don't know why the vet did not mention it at all. I mean, it's also my fault, I didn't ask, especially I have so many family members have diabetes. They always use meters. So, I just made a phone call to the vet's office, #1 to ask about the meter, #2 to tell the vet that MJ has stopped drinking and peeing excessively instantly. That's right, after I gave him one dinner meal, one dose of antibiotics, and the very first 3 unit shot, he instantly stopped the thirst.

Well, the vet said basically he would not recommend using a meter for me right now, that was for those hard to regulate dogs. And he said, since MJ responded to the meds instantly, he might not need it. He also said people with meters tended to adjust the insulin amount themselves, but I assured him I would not do that until I see him.

MJ does have UTI, that's why he's on antibiotics.

I am thinking buying an AlphaTrak 2 kit if you guys think I do need a meter. Even if it's a lot more expensive, probably easier to get accurate ratings.